How Cherry City Comic Con Created a Cosplay Crisis Before First Day

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The only thing that idiot have to do is "Sure thing we can find more male cosplayers and display them on Facebook". Holy Christ.

Dragonbums:
The only thing that idiot have to do is "Sure thing we can find more male cosplayers and display them on Facebook". Holy Christ.

He could've just ignored her as well.

I guess we can all learn from his mistake and ignore people trying to drag us into stupid public pissing contests.

Doom972:

Dragonbums:
The only thing that idiot have to do is "Sure thing we can find more male cosplayers and display them on Facebook". Holy Christ.

He could've just ignored her as well.

I guess we can all learn from his mistake and ignore people trying to drag us into stupid public pissing contests.

It wasn't a public pissing contest, and he wasn't dragged into it; it was someone raising a concern they had, him reacting poorly, then things spiraling out of control.

She tried to get her refund privately when she decided she didn't like how he was comporting himself, but he posted publicly about it and, as Lincoln put it, shot himself in the foot. Blaming her for trying to escalate things is extremely wrong-headed.

Doom972:

Dragonbums:
The only thing that idiot have to do is "Sure thing we can find more male cosplayers and display them on Facebook". Holy Christ.

He could've just ignored her as well.

I guess we can all learn from his mistake and ignore people trying to drag us into stupid public pissing contests.

?

What was the pissing contest though?

The woman basically requested that more men be represented in their cosplay catalog, and another simply inquiries how family friendly it would be given the amount of scantily clad women cosplays were on display on the page. (and scantily clad cosplay is not family friendly)

The first one could of simply been answered with "okay, we will try to see if more male cosplayers are interested and post them on our page" the second one can be responded with a recommended age group for potential con goers or a set of guidelines for what a cosplayer can or cannot wear.

Storm in a glass. Things were said and done that were regretted, life goes on.

Ross Lincoln:
The question we're now faced with is just how did things get so bad?

I'm glad you asked Ross!
First off, we have to examine the case and find out just how "bad" things are. The obvious loss is if the con doesn't get off the ground and nerds and geeks lose a place to go to in their region.
Will the con be canceled? Probably not.
Will there be a significant decrease of visitors? Probably not.

In other words, things aren't bad, there's just a bit of internet drama.

As to why, that's easy. Sexism in our community is still a hot topic and it gets people up in arms.

Honestly, this is clickbait more than anything, with a small argument to be made, which is don't let the stress of arranging a con get to you.

This guys comments were spot on. But bad idea to be that abrasive about it when you're the PR of an organization. And then resorting to sockpuppeting? His handling of this was so bad.

RossaLincoln:
It's easy to conclude, once you've managed to wrap your head around the confusing and often inexplicable behavior, that this is a textbook case of institutional sexism

Wait, what? It's only easy to conclude such a thing if you're not sure how to form conclusions or how "that logic thing" is supposed to work.

Someone who expresses concerns about their personal safety after having a conversation that could not possibly even remotely lead anyone to conclude that personal safety will be an issue must be batshit crazy, or in clinical terms paranoid. It's not sexism to point out the batshit craziness of these people. Just stupid if you happen to represent an organization with a financial interest in placating these concerns, regardless of how inane they are.

Nor is it sexist to tell someone who appears to be suggesting that they expect mandated gender quotas in everything and anything they lay eyes on to shove off. He said it pretty straight: he was looking for good cosplayers, not trying to maintain gender symmetry and in the process present a lot of poorly done cosplays by men. He just has no idea to communicate his idea effectively.

Oh man, this is why Anita Sarkeesian and the rise of feminism in gaming culture annoys me to no end. You can bet 90% of the people crying "sexism" in this case were her brand of loony feminist. And there's no way to stop the torrent of stupidity these people will unleash. I thought gaming might resist the behemoth that has infected every branch of popular culture and every major institution in America, but I suppose the price to pay for being accepted into the mainstream is to invite the feminist loonies who dominate it to "purify it" and police both thought and rhetoric that goes against the party ideology. Or whatever.

Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Here's what I suspect happened: A new convention organizer posted all the photos he had available. When asked about the ratio of men to women, he should have responded "We'd love to have more photos of male cosplayers, unfortunately we're a new organization and our stock photo file is not yet that robust."

Instead, the guy panicked, drew the ire of feminist groups, and this is the result.

I'm definitely siding with Thunderf00t's general opinion on the this occurrence.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard about a convoluted shitstorm occurring because the wrong person saw somebody's Facebook rant...

Everybody gets pissed, everybody acts stupid when they're angry, and it's just too easy for that to spill over into a social media website that many people are constantly glued to. Check your friends list. Are they actually your friends? Not a good way to find out.

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Wow. Did you intend to make a straight up comparison between displaying cosplay pictures and porn?

Is there no better example you could come up with to prove your point? Because I'm not sure this is the strongest argument you could make...

DjinnFor:
This guys comments were spot on. But bad idea to be that abrasive about it when you're the PR of an organization. And then resorting to sockpuppeting? His handling of this was so bad.

RossaLincoln:
It's easy to conclude, once you've managed to wrap your head around the confusing and often inexplicable behavior, that this is a textbook case of institutional sexism

Wait, what? It's only easy to conclude such a thing if you're not sure how to form conclusions or how "that logic thing" is supposed to work.

Someone who expresses concerns about their personal safety after having a conversation that could not possibly even remotely lead anyone to conclude that personal safety will be an issue must be batshit crazy, or in clinical terms paranoid. It's not sexism to point out the batshit craziness of these people. Just stupid if you happen to represent an organization with a financial interest in placating these concerns, regardless of how inane they are.

Nor is it sexist to tell someone who appears to be suggesting that they expect mandated gender quotas in everything and anything they lay eyes on to shove off. He said it pretty straight: he was looking for good cosplayers, not trying to maintain gender symmetry and in the process present a lot of poorly done cosplays by men. He just has no idea to communicate his idea effectively.

Oh man, this is why Anita Sarkeesian and the rise of feminism in gaming culture annoys me to no end. You can bet 90% of the people crying "sexism" in this case were her brand of loony feminist. And there's no way to stop the torrent of stupidity these people will unleash. I thought gaming might resist the behemoth that has infected every branch of popular culture and every major institution in America, but I suppose the price to pay for being accepted into the mainstream is to invite the feminist loonies who dominate it to "purify it" and police both thought and rhetoric that goes against the party ideology. Or whatever.

you......... really might want to re-word a vast majority of your post.

While I dont like Anita myself, sexism is something that does need dealt with in the gaming, comic, and convention scenes.

I just think that making a kickstarter to fun youtube videos is a bit stupid.

plus you are kind of just spouting buzz words towards the end of your rant, that's never a good sign.

OT: well, I haven't been to a con in a long time, but now for sure I'm not going to CCCC.

You see, I find the apology "I know it was wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me?" kind of redundant. He knew it was wrong, he even admitted it, so why did he even say it in the first place?

I should seriously start a group that travels to cons to find sexist hecklers and fat/skinny shamers and not only publicly call them out, but probably steal their con-passes. Read a story from one of the links, think it was Cosplay =/= Consent where a cosplayer decked the fuck out of a douchebag for calling another cosplayer fat.

That woman? she deserves the biggest medal ever.

Elijah Newton:

Wow. Did you intend to make a straight up comparison between displaying cosplay pictures and porn?

Is there no better example you could come up with to prove your point? Because I'm not sure this is the strongest argument you could make...

Well, I can only really speak from my own experience. And there is an inordinate amount of cosplay in my porn collection. And it's nowhere near gender equal.

But yeah, comparing my private porn collection to a public cosplay collection was a bit uncalled for. I apologize.

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Just going to put this out here.

If people are equating cosplay with porn this easily, it's pretty reasonable to question the con's claim of being a family friendly environment all things considered.

One of the things the article points out is that regardless of what chana said Martin was an authority for the page and convention. This is a catch all answer. If you dare to talk to me before 9am at the office every answer to every question will be "your mum!". Its agreed upon and accepted by my peers. If you're a customer you best believe at any time I will be on my best behavior. I represent a company. What Martin did was forget he was at work not his home.

bluepotatosack:

If people are equating cosplay with porn this easily, it's pretty reasonable to question the con's claim of being a family friendly environment all things considered.

Really depends on which party or parties (if any) in this instance are equating it to porn.

To me, it seems like one party wants to make the other equate it to porn.

But me? One heterosexual white male who's become disenfranchised after the subjugation of the equality movement? Yeah, I equate cosplay to porn. It's what's expected of me, after all.

How Cherry City Comic Con Created a Cosplay Crisis Before First Day

We examine the public relations nightmare surrounding the launch of the new fan convention in Salem, Oregon.

Read Full Article

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

CelestDaer:

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

Silly goose, that's "asocial". Asexual just means they're doing stuff that doesn't involve sex, like reading to one another, or playing games, or having a romantic candle-lit dinner under the stars. At least that's what I would do.

Wow, dude has no customer service skill. Even if someone is a complete asshole, you don't turn around and be a complete asshole yourself. It never ends in your favor.

Kalezian:

He knew it was wrong, he even admitted it, so why did he even say it in the first place?

to put it bluntly, bullshit. you can't tell me you've never said or did something you knew was wrong because of an elevated emotional state? if you say no, you are a lying lying liar. we all have. unfortunately, in this day and age, this happens in a lasting public atmosphere more and more often. i'm not being an apologist for the guy really, but to be so blindly black and white is just arrogant and implied hypocrisy. implied because i can't prove you've ever done this, but you're a human being so... you've done this.

i've read the guy's words, and read other apologies as well, where you can tell it was bullshit. this guy though, his apology comes off as sincere, and as the article said, sometimes it takes a real shock to the system to wake up your mind. don't let this lesson be passed as just another regret in his life, let it galvanize as a moment of change, we'll all be better off for it.

shirkbot:

CelestDaer:

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

Silly goose, that's "asocial". Asexual just means they're doing stuff that doesn't involve sex, like reading to one another, or playing games, or having a romantic candle-lit dinner under the stars. At least that's what I would do.

that's what i would do too... right before a raging sweaty fuck session haha. Asexuality is one thing i just cannot understand. I don't condemn them at all, don't view them as odd or deviants, i just don't get it. I can see certain arguments for it i guess, but in practice, it just doesn't work. i've spent the last 4 years on and off sleeping with a girl i practically hate because of the power of sex. Is it biological, that they don't have the drive? is it a matter of Gandhi-esque self control? Or did they just do it wrong the first time and hated it and figured that's all it was and never went back and re-examine? (too many "and"s in that sentence.)

i remember, when i was 17, i was so annoyed by my brother and my friends doing anything and everything it took to get laid. then i had sex. then i understood. of course, i didn't pursue it quite as feverishly. i could have been a real manwhore in highschool, but i'm more of a relationship kinda guy.

strumbore:
From a business perspective, the guy could have sucked up to the woman on Facebook and nebulously promised more men to follow in addition to the 9 (out of 21 people!) already photographed. But really, he didn't make a fool of himself at all until AFTER the Facebook heckler took a big dump on his page, requesting a refund for not feeling "safe" (!).

SHE TRIED TO BURY THE EVENT BY CLAIMING THE EVENT WAS "NOT A SAFE PLACE FOR WOMEN" WHEN ALL HE DID WAS COUNTER HER ALLEGATIONS OF SEXISM WITH A COUNTEREXAMPLE. THAT'S A HORRIBLE, UGLY, EVIL ATTACK ON SOMEONE'S PERSONAL/BUSINESS REPUTATION. SHE CLEARLY MEANT TO RUIN HIM OUT OF SPITE.

All her posts were sarcastic and meant to convey irritation, it's very difficult to accommodate people looking for a fight. He behaved childishly in the events that followed, but not before, this woman on Facebook made unfounded accusations. Ross, you are pathetic to blow your trumpet in defense of conventional wisdom and character assassination.

9 out of 21 Photos, not people. Not that I care for this particular point anyway. Also, while it may seem that Chana was going to spread ruin, she didn't. Black Mariah got wind of the situation because Martin made a friend request earlier.

Plus Martin DID do that whole lying thing.

I'm so sick of this stuff....

The con didn't "CREATE" a controversy, a loud minority of tumblr activists are trying to stir up some trouble.

But no, she can't be questioned because that'd cue the predjudicial claim which makes you a woman hating mysoginist (and probably a rapist). Are people finally starting to see how absurd this hyper-sensitivity and claims of victimization where there are none is getting?

CancelColbert should be pointed out at every opportunity as best example of this sort of craziness affecting a number of sub-cultures.

Well I don't know what the selection or quality of cosplays were so I can't judge the initial comments and responses, but it could be fair enough. The ensuing social media bullshit was just unnecessary. I can't believe people still do this with aliases, personal attacks, and possibly stupidest of all, attempting to delete posts and sweep things under the rug. Never do this in any kind of public light whatsoever. Developers, PR, doesn't matter who you are, that shit will ruin you and your audience will instantly know what kind of person you are. It's not worth it.

And then there's the Tumblr parade but that's another rant.

shirkbot:

CelestDaer:

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

Silly goose, that's "asocial". Asexual just means they're doing stuff that doesn't involve sex, like reading to one another, or playing games, or having a romantic candle-lit dinner under the stars. At least that's what I would do.

But are they still wearing clothes? If so, how is that porn?

shirkbot:

CelestDaer:

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

Silly goose, that's "asocial". Asexual just means they're doing stuff that doesn't involve sex, like reading to one another, or playing games, or having a romantic candle-lit dinner under the stars. At least that's what I would do.

[Puts On Pedantic Hat]
That's not Asexual. Asexual is a person splitting in half down the middle and becoming two identical copies of the same person.
[Takes Off Pedantic Hat]

But that would definitely be an interesting conversation starter if one decided he was bored of boring Asexual.

CelestDaer:
But are they still wearing clothes? If so, how is that porn?

Evocative clothing is more appealing than straight up nudity. Evocative Cosplay could very easily lead into lines of thought that are most definitely not PG-13

Nurb:
I'm so sick of this stuff....

The con didn't "CREATE" a controversy, a loud minority of tumblr activists are trying to stir up some trouble.

But no, she can't be questioned because that'd cue the predjudicial claim which makes you a woman hating mysoginist (and probably a rapist). Are people finally starting to see how absurd this hyper-sensitivity and claims of victimization where there are none is getting?

CancelColbert should be pointed out at every opportunity as best example of this sort of craziness affecting a number of sub-cultures.

The con DID create controversy. The woman asked for a refund. Privately. But instead of quietly granting her request and endeavoring to make sure nothing like this happened again, this guy took it to his facebook page and, while including her REAL NAME publicly available for all to see, proceeded to brutally mock her in front of the entire internet.

That was pointlessly cruel and unnecessary.

Kajin:

CelestDaer:
But are they still wearing clothes? If so, how is that porn?

Evocative clothing is more appealing than straight up nudity. Evocative Cosplay could very easily lead into lines of thought that are most definitely not PG-13

Here's one of them.
NSFW, naturally.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--2aj-BKcQkQ/U2ELNw6gvzI/AAAAAAAAA3M/_TBTicA94jE/s1600/OriginalCommentsNotChana.jpg

Nurb:
I'm so sick of this stuff....

The con didn't "CREATE" a controversy, a loud minority of tumblr activists are trying to stir up some trouble.

But no, she can't be questioned because that'd cue the predjudicial claim which makes you a woman hating mysoginist (and probably a rapist). Are people finally starting to see how absurd this hyper-sensitivity and claims of victimization where there are none is getting?

CancelColbert should be pointed out at every opportunity as best example of this sort of craziness affecting a number of sub-cultures.

Why do I feel it's more likely that people come to these sorts of topics to talk about how they can't talk about these things, then they do and nothing happens, instead of what the people claim happens actually happening? I know they exist, there's an aggressive, well known feminist lady on a Warhammer site I go to. But that site doesn't worry about feminist ghosts like this site does.

Anyway, he annoyed a customer. You can see it with gamers, some company representative says something stupid to one person then people get pissed, time for damage control.

I will point out that many men in the geek space, including myself at various points in my life, who consider themselves feminists or feminist allies, have not managed to examine their own prejudices and preconceptions deeply. It's easy to assume that because you agree with and support equality, you yourself are not part of the problem. Without that kind of introspection, it's easy for tendencies you weren't even fully aware of to emerge in horrifying ways when you're emotionally compromised.

Something that sadly gets drowned out in most conversations, almost as readly as the point that "silence on sexist behavior = complicit acceptance". I like to think I've internalized that lesson, since I've done stuff in the past like I'm not proud of (a girl I wanted to dance with thought I was stalking her, and I had no idea how creepy my behavior was until her friends confronted me)...but that's always the danger.

Personally, I'm trying to drill myself in the habit of asking myself "why?" whenever something puts me on the defensive. Doesn't always work, but it's worth making the effort.

MinionJoe:
Oh man... If I ever decide to share my porn collection publicly, I better make sure it contains a perfect 50/50 split of men and women. Better yet, a 33/33/33 split of men, women, and hermaphrodite. Or ideally, a 25/25/25/25 split of men, women, hermaphrodites, and asexuals.

If you're displaying your porn collection publicly and banking on, nay outright advertising that you welcome people of any gender or sexual orientation, then that would be the ideal thing to do, yes.

It's always the best policy to assume that people are going to be obnoxious, rather than let yourself be surprised when they are. "Customer service" is a nice way of saying "Herculean endurance test involving how much other people can annoy you in a given time frame." Their reasoning is completely immaterial; all that matters is that you keep up the face.

Also, everyone's ugly when they're angry.

One would THINK that if you're making an event like that for a community that in last few years have evolved from male-only neckbeard club into a much more diverse one that's still very sensitive when it comes to this kind of issues, you'd try to be more cautious about what you say and do. I mean, even if you're an asshole, at least be smart enough to hide it.

This is not entirely related to the article, but in reference to the "Cosplay != Consent" thing, I have a female friend who cosplays, and she's only been groped by other women at conventions. Some of whom have expressed support for "Cosplay != Consent" on their facebook pages. This kind of relates to that last paragraph in the article with how people will be vocally against something and not realize that they're actually being part of the problem.

Introspection is always a good thing, and I feel like Mark Martin would probably benefit from examining why a woman mentioning she felt unsafe at a convention he was running provoked him to mock her. I hope that what he takes from this isn't "Why do these women always feel like ruining my fun?" and instead "Holy shit, I need to handle these situations better"

Poor form from all parties involved, no attempts to create understanding or bridge empathy and blown out of proportion in record time.

Not impressed by any of this debacle or any of the persons involved.

martyrdrebel27:

shirkbot:

CelestDaer:

Oh man all that hot hot asexual porn... all those clothed people doing things that don't involve other people...

Silly goose, that's "asocial". Asexual just means they're doing stuff that doesn't involve sex, like reading to one another, or playing games, or having a romantic candle-lit dinner under the stars. At least that's what I would do.

that's what i would do too... right before a raging sweaty fuck session haha. Asexuality is one thing i just cannot understand. I don't condemn them at all, don't view them as odd or deviants, i just don't get it. I can see certain arguments for it i guess, but in practice, it just doesn't work. i've spent the last 4 years on and off sleeping with a girl i practically hate because of the power of sex. Is it biological, that they don't have the drive? is it a matter of Gandhi-esque self control? Or did they just do it wrong the first time and hated it and figured that's all it was and never went back and re-examine? (too many "and"s in that sentence.)

i remember, when i was 17, i was so annoyed by my brother and my friends doing anything and everything it took to get laid. then i had sex. then i understood. of course, i didn't pursue it quite as feverishly. i could have been a real manwhore in highschool, but i'm more of a relationship kinda guy.

It's generally a combination of the first two reasons you listed.

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