Avengers, Represent

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Roganzar:

Falterfire:
The Captain America thing seems fine because it's not some random new guy taking over the role: It's the Falcon, who is an established ally of Cap. This isn't the first time Steve Rogers has stepped down and handed the shield to somebody else. That specific swap could easily be an intentional part of character development by writers.

The "random unknown character is suddenly Thor" thing is almost certainly just intentionally gimmicky newsmaking though.

Gimmicky newsmaking?!?! From Marvel? (Even though their movie division is all but printing money right now.) Not those guys.
Still I'm waiting for the new Falcon comic with Steven Colbert as the Falcon.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2014/07/stephen-colbert-flies-high-as-marvels-all-new-falcon/
Real or not, I demand this happen. They wouldn't let him be president they could at least let him have this damnit.

"Why did the Falcon cross the road? For Justice, motherfucker!" I concur, the have a Stephen Colbert in the MU who ran for President, so let him take Sam Wilson's old gig.

nyysjan:
The whole Thor is now a lady sounds silly (unless it's the regular Thor who has gone through a sex change, which i understand it is not).
Like someone being given an Iron Man armor and being told "You are now Tony Stark"

As for Falcon as Captain America, eh, depends how they do it.

Personally though, i'd have preferred an Avengers team with Falcon being Falcon, and some uber powerful thundergod woman being an uber powerful thundergod woman without taking in a name from someone else.

I'm positive that Sam Wilson was an Avenger (and still is) when he was The Falcon. I guess Bucky's turn as Cap is still to fresh in everyone's memories to give him the shield again. If we're going with the "Thor's been replaced with a woman" theory, let me ask this: anyone seen Valkyrie recently?
As for the change coming to Iron Man, they're going to move him to San Francisco (where Daredevil lives now), having him wear a more Apple-like suit of armor, and calling him "The Superior Iron Man". They say, like Superior Spider-Man, they're going to make him harder to like. Yeah, because that was a good idea the last time they did that [cough]CivilWar![cough].

RatGouf:
As a plausible Moron I'm offended by the idea I like Angela from Spawn.... I'd rather have Angela from Gargoyles.... Come on.... Disney's Gargoyles ought to be in the Marvel Universe.... Or better yet instead of either Angela how about Maggie from the Mutates who were also in Disney's Gargoyles?

As cool as that would be and, technically, despite the fact that this is feasible (Disney owning Marvel and all) I don't think this would work out. The Marvel universe is not ready for the Xanatos gambit.

canadamus_prime:
Ok I don't know who Angela is so that doesn't mean much to me. As to Marvel's attempts at diversity in general I have to question why they're messing around with their established characters instead of creating new ones. Probably because the former is less work.

Because established characters are the only way to get notoriety. I mean, the current line-up of Mighty Avengers is full of non-whites:

Luke Cage
Spectrum
Ronin (actually Blade)
Blue Marvel
Power Man
White Tiger
Falcon

And the other books have their share:
Sunspot
Sunfire
Captain Universe
Black Panther
Shang Chi
Iron Patriot

Honestly, those calling the new lineup a great move forward for diversity probably aren't reading the actual comics.

I think they mean Thorita. And who's angela?

At least they had the decency to put Steve Rogers out of commission, maybe forever?! (lol)
Thor just pissed off his boss and is on unpaid leave while he sorts his shit out. She's like a replacement you pick up from a temp agency while an employee is on stress leave.

Marvel's press release:
"And this new Thor isn't a temporary female substitute - she's now the one and only Thor, and she is worthy!"

What a load of crap.

Question: What about the Big Hero 6 race changes?

Vault101:
shes from SHHHHPAWWWWWN!!!

the most intellectually stimulating comic ever

Angela's comics are just gracefully titilating.

OT: I like the fancy rat's face while peeing :3

ThingWhatSqueaks:

As cool as that would be and, technically, despite the fact that this is feasible (Disney owning Marvel and all) I don't think this would work out. The Marvel universe is not ready for the Xanatos gambit.

David Xanatos would show up Iron Man, then for an encore, slip over to DC and punk both Batman and Lex Luthor. Before breakfast. Possibly in the same plan.

Yeah, it's too dangerous to let him out.

ThingWhatSqueaks:

RatGouf:
As a plausible Moron I'm offended by the idea I like Angela from Spawn.... I'd rather have Angela from Gargoyles.... Come on.... Disney's Gargoyles ought to be in the Marvel Universe.... Or better yet instead of either Angela how about Maggie from the Mutates who were also in Disney's Gargoyles?

As cool as that would be and, technically, despite the fact that this is feasible (Disney owning Marvel and all) I don't think this would work out. The Marvel universe is not ready for the Xanatos gambit.

Well.... At least David Xanatos wasn't in charge during Dark Reign or The Siege.... That & a power armor version of Goliath in Red White & Blue might've been goofy.

HAHAHA

It's funny because Angela is from Spawn and we're all supposed to hate Spawn.

Ugh... I'm gonna be honest, I don't know a whole lot about American comics, I'm more a Thorgal/Blacksad/Aria/Op Zoek Naar De Tijdvogel kind of guy. (The ol' graphic novels Casterman published under the 'wordt vervolgd' label, now that's something that could fuel a discussion with me.) But I've read a few Spawn comics and I've also read a few Marvel and DC Comics. Now, I might just be stupid eurotrash, but to me it all seems like thin, monthly published pulp in different flavours. I actually own the first issue of the comic called 'Angela'. It's not anything special (surprising given all the praise this Gaiman guy seems to get), but what makes her so much worse than all the other ridiculously looking "heroes"?

Redd the Sock:

canadamus_prime:
Ok I don't know who Angela is so that doesn't mean much to me. As to Marvel's attempts at diversity in general I have to question why they're messing around with their established characters instead of creating new ones. Probably because the former is less work.

Because established characters are the only way to get notoriety. I mean, the current line-up of Mighty Avengers is full of non-whites:
Luke Cage, Spectrum, Ronin (actually Blade), Blue Marvel, Power Man, White Tiger, Falcon

And the other books have their share:
Sunspot, Sunfire, Captain Universe, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Iron Patriot

Honestly, those calling the new lineup a great move forward for diversity probably aren't reading the actual comics.

I concur, it's really disappointing how people, desperate to appear progressive, are so quick to put blatant pandering on a pedestal. PT Barnum was right.

Only time will tell if these story lines turn into well developed stories, but that is for hindsight to decide. At this point, the best move is to remain cynical and wait it out. Any sight unseen praise of Marvel's "progressive stance" shows you for the insipid, unthinking sheep you are.

PS: Anybody taking the sassy "You awful white men who get mad when your white heroes are replaced, you've got plenty to choose from." ... Are you freaking serious? I don't like them because they're white, I like them because of their established character. If you swap their race or gender without making any meaningful changes, you're insulting me with your obvious pandering, but if you change then to suit their new sex/race/disability/whatever, then they are not the character I have been following. So what I care about is the characters, and it's moronic of you to try to frame this as a question of race.

Hunter85792:

Well yeah, agreed about Captain America.

But the Thor things is just too weird. Same name, same appearance, just with ovaries. I mean you'd think they might want to give her a bit of a distinct personality or something... unless this is just going to be immediately retconned in 12 months.

Or in 28 days. Oooooooooooh !

image

On topic though, the Thor thing isn't too weird. Loki used to be in Lady Sif's body for a while.

Windknight:

Schadrach:

Yeah, but it makes the feminists all happy about it, because switching out the race or gender of a character arbitrarily always makes them better, as long as you don't turn them white or male.

Shakesville was going on and on about how great it was that they were making Thor a woman the day it was announced, for example.

Because eliminating diversity to give white dudes one more extra person to root for next to all eleventy billion they have already is totally equivalent to losing one white dude from all the eleventy billion they have to root for to give more diversity.

Losing that one white dude from the eleventy billion hurts the white dudes so much more. Wont everybody feel the white dudes pain?

RA92:

Ronack:
I'm expecting Tumblrites in this comment section throwing a sissyfit over the fact that Trans people aren't represented.

Actually, what's more interesting is that people are so conditioned to white male figures as superheroes, that they can't see any change in race/gender of a character mantle as anything but a gimmick.

There's a trans character in the recent batgirl run, and the new creative team on it are promise more LGBT represntation.

what the hell?! with as much magic and science in DC comics what possible reason is there for a trans character when they could probably literally get changed into the other sex.

iblis666:

Windknight:

There's a trans character in the recent batgirl run, and the new creative team on it are promise more LGBT represntation.

what the hell?! with as much magic and science in DC comics what possible reason is there for a trans character when they could probably literally get changed into the other sex.

as far as I'm aware the character is a civvie, and the most high profile superhero they have access to is batgirl, so generally don't really have access to super alien technology or the necessary magic to make them the gender they feel they should be. That's before we get into whether tech/magic work like that in the DC universe, and what the general attitude to transgender people is compared to our own.

Tiamattt:
Look out Iron Man, I don't know what they're going to do to you but your ass is next.

)

They are going to make him a drug addicted bi-sexual with mild schizophrenia.....oh wait.

canadamus_prime:
Ok I don't know who Angela is so that doesn't mean much to me. As to Marvel's attempts at diversity in general I have to question why they're messing around with their established characters instead of creating new ones. Probably because the former is less work.

The reason they are doing it this way is basically because new characters don't sell books around 95% of the time, and haven't since the 90s (if they are in the big 2 proper, at least). So, if you want to diversify existing books to bring in new audiences or experiment with interesting new character and team ideas, you either have to make a new alternate (but still recognizable) universe, new 52 or Ultimates style, or re-tool an existing series.

BreakfastMan:

canadamus_prime:
Ok I don't know who Angela is so that doesn't mean much to me. As to Marvel's attempts at diversity in general I have to question why they're messing around with their established characters instead of creating new ones. Probably because the former is less work.

The reason they are doing it this way is basically because new characters don't sell books around 95% of the time, and haven't since the 90s (if they are in the big 2 proper, at least). So, if you want to diversify existing books to bring in new audiences or experiment with interesting new character and team ideas, you either have to make a new alternate (but still recognizable) universe, new 52 or Ultimates style, or re-tool an existing series.

That's a cop-out if I ever heard one. Incidentally I thought Marvel was already doing pretty good in the diversity department without the need for this stunt. Ok sure they could probably do with some more non-white characters, but I thought they had the female demographic covered.

You know, they announced the Captain Falcon/ Lady-Thor (As I will continue to call them) at the same time, but they still haven't elaborated on that picture. Is that the Avengers now? Wasn't Doctor Strange removed as sorcerer supreme for meddling in the affairs of the superhumans? And how the hell are they getting Winter Soldier on the team? Last I saw the media hated him, and the government was having a hard time not throwing him out of the country. And who's the guy on fire?

RatGouf:
As a plausible Moron I'm offended by the idea I like Angela from Spawn.... I'd rather have Angela from Gargoyles.... Come on.... Disney's Gargoyles ought to be in the Marvel Universe.... Or better yet instead of either Angela how about Maggie from the Mutates who were also in Disney's Gargoyles?

Disney does not relinquish, it absorbs. It doesn't matter how dead, or how tenacious the defense ... it grows and covers all. To be honest though, with the maturity apparent in the recent movie Frozen, which I found infinitely more enjoyable than most of the Marvel movies to date ... ehhh, I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not. As someone who no longer really reads Western comics, and is horrendously boring because the only manga and Japanese light novels I will sit down and read are Spice and Wolf and the like, I'm willing to bet money that Disney will continue to evolve their design and presentation of future intellectual property.

Whereas if someone were to say to me that "The Avengers movie represents the best thing to happen to the American geek culture" ... then I would argue whether Marvel is at all doing any justice to what is, if nothing else, established characters and stories. People are so quick to forget that for every Captain America, The Avengers, and X-Men: First Class, Marvel-produced 'movies' like X-Men, Elektra, and Daredevil were made.

If anything Marvel's movie divisions have been batting WELL, WELL, WELL below average.

As for the comics side of things ... yeah, once again it's cookie-cutter templates that have been followed before. Rogers has stepped down as the Cap before ... Thor being a girl is more than a little contrived (or worse, 'derivative', of which is par for the course for what Marvel did during the late 70s, 80s and 90s) ... Honestly, what were you expecting? It's disingenuous at best as I have very little faith that any of it will turn into true representations on the silver screen.

It's indicative of a market that has been bleeding cash, and mired in some of the most stringent laws concerning intellectual property, that the struggle to create something fresh and flash is beyond the simple palette swaps of the memory space-stressed video games were back in the early 90s.

Windknight:
as far as I'm aware the character is a civvie, and the most high profile superhero they have access to is batgirl, so generally don't really have access to super alien technology or the necessary magic to make them the gender they feel they should be. That's before we get into whether tech/magic work like that in the DC universe, and what the general attitude to transgender people is compared to our own.

This is a fairly accurate answer, but I feel like quibbling anyway:

iblis666:
what the hell?! with as much magic and science in DC comics what possible reason is there for a trans character when they could probably literally get changed into the other sex.

Such a character would, as far as I understand it, still be trans, having transitioned from one sex to another.

Didn't know who Angela from Spawn was.

Well, that was an eventful half-hour Google image search.

Were the people complaining about him being the frog racist against frogs? Or were they just mad at a major change to an iconic character?

And once again I am censured for activities for which this "magazine" pays Jim Sterling and Ben Croshaw and others to perform professionally. I want to read your definition for rude. Really, I want to see it in print.

PaulH:
People are so quick to forget that for every Captain America, The Avengers, and X-Men: First Class, Marvel-produced 'movies' like X-Men, Elektra, and Daredevil were made.

If anything Marvel's movie divisions have been batting WELL, WELL, WELL below average.

People are also quick to forget that Marvel had little-to-nothing to do with making any of the bad movies you just named. Daredevil, X-Men, and Elektra were all products of 20th Century Fox.

See, Marvel was in a financial rut and had to sell their movie rights to numerous characters in order to help make ends meet. Among those were the rights to the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, and a couple of other properties as well. They also sold Spider-Man to Sony. Some of their other films had to be run through intermediaries in order to afford to make them. This included things like Daredevil, Elektra, Blade, etc.

The first movie directly produced under Marvel's own studio banner (with their full creative control over the character) was Iron Man in 2008, and they've been on a roll ever since.

So no, it's not that people "forget" that Marvel's had bad movies, because they haven't. It's more the fact that Marvel properties have produced bad movies, because the people working with them are incompetent and don't know how to use them properly.

Not that that's to say that Marvel always does everything right, either. This streak of theirs is bound to end eventually as they inevitably screw one up. But they've definitely done much better as their own independent studio than they did working with other studios.

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