Destiny Review - World of Chorecraft

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myke66:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.

The story was not meant to be the main focal point of the game. Anyone who played D3 should understand the concept of Destiny. It's not about a long campaign like Halo was, it was about creating a world and setting where you will be playing in over and over. The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.

Any review that isnt taking this into account doesn't understand what Destiny is, and frankly shouldnt be writing reviews.

Dont get me wrong, Destiny has its flaws. Lack of matchmaking for story/public missions, lack of social features, slow pacing regarding loot while leveling up. But these are patchable items, growing pains if you will for any new MMO. This should also be remembered and talked about while reviewing the game, it doesnt end at the content on the disc, Bungie has already stated its intentions for updates and new (free) content. This may be a new concept for console users, but pretty standard for PC gaming.

All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.

So what you're essentially saying is that you'd give it an 8 out of 10 for something it may or may not do..? Maybe?
You need to remember that Jim is reviewing the game as it is and not reading in to the future (thank god) and playing a guessing game or reading a magical ball.
You could apply your statement to a lot of games. SiN Episodes ring a bell? Promised episodes which never materialised. Not saying Destiny won't have any DLC but you cannot review a game based on what may or may not be, maybe, as promised, potentially etc.
Totally ignoring the fact that if I buy a game I want it to be good without the DLC. You can review the DLC when it comes out. This product is sold as-is and needs to be reviewed as such.

Secondly you seem to magically know what the developers intended.
Not only that but you're criticising the reviewer for playing the game how he wanted and chose to play it. "You're doing it wrong! Play it like this!". Naw man.
Destiny is what it is, not what you think it should be and Jim isn't going to review the game with your delusions as a consideration.

Also listen to the Giant Bombcast. Bunch of them have a fairly similar opinion and gripes about Destiny. (they start talking about it a couple of minutes in)

myke66:

Vigormortis:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.

Anyway, relatively spot on review compared to my experience so far. But after only a short time playing the game online I find myself yearning to return to one of my other current go-to online PvP or Co-op games. I'd just rather play something else rather than sit for any length of time in Destiny.

It seems to me almost like Bungie has lost their "spark"; their creativity. It sounds cliche but Destiny just feels soulless.

Perhaps future content updates can remedy this. I don't know.

You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.

He does a lot, so I doubt he'd have time to get that far into a game. "It gets better at x" is not much of a defense if reaching x is the work of a full day or more.

Vigormortis:
(Snip).

Eeyup. Fallout: New Vegas was an infamous mess on release and as a result, I spent a few hours playing it and deleted it in disgust, not touching it until over a year later.

Precisely my point.

I'm all for a game getting better over time. I love seeing a game expand and grow as the developer and community contribute to it.

However, if I have to wait for those contributions to come around before the game becomes fun...

...then what's the rush, right? It's only going to cost more now anyway. Pardon my crudity, but once a game becomes a chore, it's only a small matter of time before I realize I could be wanking instead for free.

myke66:

Please don't get my comments twisted, i'm not saying Destiny is a perfect game, but it still deserves a fair review for the type of game it is.

What's unfair about Jim's review? He played many hours of it, thought it was above average but very flawed, and assigned a score coinciding with his opinion.

If the initial experience of the player isn't fun, and all the good bits are at the end, it is not the player's duty to sludge through the beginning to get to the enjoyment. It is the fault of the developers for not designing the game well. Inserting a horse's cock into your anus might be a jolly good time once your sphincter has adjusted to accommodate it (or has lost all feeling), but the initial, unlubed intrusion isn't going to be fun, and the barrier to entry will turn alot of people off the experience.

Fsyco:

If the initial experience of the player isn't fun, and all the good bits are at the end, it is not the player's duty to sludge through the beginning to get to the enjoyment. It is the fault of the developers for not designing the game well. Inserting a horse's cock into your anus might be a jolly good time once your sphincter has adjusted to accommodate it (or has lost all feeling), but the initial, unlubed intrusion isn't going to be fun, and the barrier to entry will turn alot of people off the experience.

Amazing analogy!
(yes, yes I saw it too analogy)

I looked at this game quite a bit and even with all of the play videos from the beta, it never looked fun to me. I'm not inclined to buy it. Especially hearing it's very "MMO-y". Guess I'll skip it, for now at least.

Vigormortis:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.

But that's because those sentences cover actually very different games. Titanfall is entirely a multiplayer shooter with a campaign that's very tacked on and ignored by it's audience because it's a multiplayer shooter and what the game expects you to do is shoot in multiplayer.

Destiny has a multiplayer shooter aspect, but the campaign is a huuge part of the game. They've created these huge involved and detailed worlds that do nothing and excite nothing. You could ignore the campaign but that'd feel like you're deliberately having to deny yourself a large portion of the game because of the developers lack of skill.

(Also Destiny has tons of content, it's just none of it is interesting. Titanfall has practically no content, but all of it is interesting)

So another game that's been hyped to hell and back, and turns out to be just okay?

Seems to be a running theme this year...

EDIT: Maybe if they release a PC port, I'll check it out. But I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

So it's boring. What did you people expect from the creators of Halo (mediocrity given form) and the creator of COD (shit mechanics justifies by it being realistic, which it;s not, it's just as unrealistic as Doom but in different ways).

FPS's only work if they are heavenly story based (see Bioshock series), horror games (see nothing cause none f them have gotten horror right, that I'm aware of) and fun (see Doom, Quakes, Serious Sam and Painkiller). Halo and COD are non of these and are only populer because of the bro-casuals who ether play only one game or one game and maybe Madden.

If Destony gets into the bro-casual market it will be a huge success and will probably have just as many squeals as COD, if not it will be a failure just as Halo and COD would have been if it wasn't for the bro-casuals.

I feel Jim's review is pretty much spot on. I played Destiny most of yesterday and I have come to similar conclusions before this review was posted.

**spoilers** Some parts below cover the start of the game.

Ok right out the gate the game fails to hook and deliver on story. Your character has been dead for what hundreds of years and you are suddenly resurrected. No weapons? So instead of hand to hand fighting and taking that opponents weapon, I happen to see an assault rifle just propped up all nice and ready to fire.

Maybe there are other potential survivors or at least ones that could be resurrected? So on my way to a nearby hangar did I see a single body? Nope, maybe special *guardian only* black boxes with press here to resurrect button? Nope did not see that either.

-skip to getting to home base-

So when I get there, any surprise a guardian is back what miracle is this reaction? Nope. I get a quest heading to go talk to the oracle or what the class lead/trainer is... What happens? Are they amazed that you are upright and no longer metabolically challenged? Nope, they just break off into a monolog and just like Jim says, they fail to notice why we the player should even care what the heck is going on.

Now take this in parallel with Master Chief, the character is established right away, npc's respond to you and your actions, very quickly it is also established that your character is a bad ass killing machine on two legs, has a well earned reputation etc.

Speaking of Halo, Destiny has quite a few similarities. Splinter guns with homing shards, Covenant drop ships with repelling troops, invisible troops with close combat focus, mortar firing minibosses, etc. It was to the point I wanted to see the little troopers running around scared that you have arrived and ready to kick some tail.

Were it not for the huge budget proclamations saying how the game will be really something. Instead this game feels like a mid to low level budgeted game. Definitely not the AAA title that many of us felt we would see.

Other issues that come to mind, if they know the screen scale during setup how come they did not scale the font? It is tiny! Also this should be world of face masks - how am I supposed to feel engaged when staring at glowy plate face covers?

If there was one nice thing I did find was lack of texture popping, that part was well done at least. Also the music was solid but still does not feel very driving yet.

So overall at this point, Destiny is an ok - shared experience - shooter. I really would like Destiny to be so much more but from where? Nothing has been given to us to stand behind and get excited about. My best hope is for later? It has been advertised that this is a new big series and how it will be epic, so maybe that will happen.

I just hope it happens pretty soon because my interest is at that dangerous place, shooting stuff in the face over and over, why am I doing this again? Hmmm.

Sounds like it's straight up my alley.

Solid shooting, good enemies, rewarding RPG system, etc. Stories in games are usually awful anyways, so I don't care about that bit. Hell, I played solo Firefights in Halo Reach hundreds of times. If the gunplay and the overall "feel" of the game is good, then that's absolutely perfect for me. Wasn't expecting anything more from the game anyways.

BrotherRool:

But that's because those sentences cover actually very different games. Titanfall is entirely a multiplayer shooter with a campaign that's very tacked on and ignored by it's audience because it's a multiplayer shooter and what the game expects you to do is shoot in multiplayer.

Destiny has a multiplayer shooter aspect, but the campaign is a huuge part of the game. They've created these huge involved and detailed worlds that do nothing and excite nothing. You could ignore the campaign but that'd feel like you're deliberately having to deny yourself a large portion of the game because of the developers lack of skill.

(Also Destiny has tons of content, it's just none of it is interesting. Titanfall has practically no content, but all of it is interesting)

I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.

I find it interesting that Jim takes issue with the names of things, calling it a waste of talent. This is Bungie we're talking about, right? Their last games were about a Space Marine employed by United Nations Space Command named Master Chief leading a war effort against The Covenant and preventing them from activating giant halos in space called Halos.

Other races and characters include, Precursor, The Primordial, The Flood, Forerunners etc.

Bungie doesn't exactly have a long history of creative naming. It's a good review all the same, though.

I'm going to give my brothers copy a go on his PS today, from what I have seen him play, this seems about right. But I imagine this is the kind of game that would be a blast with a group of friends.

Fsyco:

Charcharo:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.

That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

Just to clarify for international audiences, that's a peculiarity of the US education system. 70% = C = GPA 2.0 = Average. I don't pretend to understand, that's just how it is.

OT: Well at least it sounds like it's a good way to kill some time, but it sounds like Bungie isn't exactly leaving their comfort zone.

Vigormortis:

I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you

Pretty much what I expected; too much money spent on making an "OK" experience.

Hmm, so decent, but unimaginative.

Maybe I'll pick it up after it has a price drop/sale. After loving all of Bungie's halo games (and the art involved), it's disappointing to see that this is their first foray into something new. Maybe they'll make the inevitable sequel better. One can only hope.

I kept asking, "What does this game offer outside of combat" and the only answer I ever got was, "..."

I took that as a bad sign. When I got into the Beta, I took it as a worst sign that, without ps+, the only thing you can do is go into instanced areas by yourself. You can't join squads, and can't do any content with other people.

Lastly, I expect MMOs to be somewhat social. Even if it's just watching a night elf dance on a mail box... that's something outside of "go out and murder".

I canceled my pre-order and bought conception II instead.

Fsyco:

That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

In every school I've been in, a D was in the 60s and still passing. A bigger issue is that C is considered "average" and D below average.

Great review Jim! I agree with most of your sentiments, although I have found The Crucible to be a complete waste of time.

I really wanted this game to be something special. Unfortunately, it's the most disappointing game I've played in years.

It's fantastic to see you doing well over here at Escapist. Keep up the good work!

I called it! But nooo Batman, Batman! they shouted from the rooftops "Destiny is going to be the best game this year!" they said...as I shook my head and shrugged my shoulders walking away.

This is why you don't overhype your games people so when the disappointment hits you take it more softly.

So much money wasted on marketing this game instead of making new IP's..kinda sad really.

Charcharo:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The other point to make with Jim's reviews is that he tends not to fall into the fallacy that a lot of other reviewers do that says; "This game has clearly had a lot of money spent on it, therefore it must be worth at least an 8, irrespective of any issues we've identified in the review". Lots of other reviews are making many of the same points he is but settling on a higher score (quite a few are still "in-progress" though). I think Jim tends to be forgiving of gameplay or other issues if the game is fun/interesting/unique, but is very harsh on a perceived "lack of soul", especially coming out of a project that has been hyped as much as this has.

I also have to admit to not having quite 'calibrated' myself to the new Escapist review system, however I feel like 3 stars is not the same as 6 out of 10 from most other publications. To my mind the system probably works something like

5 stars = Between 9 and 10.
4 stars = Between 8 and 9.
3 stars = Between 7 and 8.
2 stars = Between 5 and 7.
1 star = Less than 5

Something like that. 3 stars means average which is usually what 7.5 says to me in most reviews.

Zachary Amaranth:

Fsyco:

That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

In every school I've been in, a D was in the 60s and still passing. A bigger issue is that C is considered "average" and D below average.

In every school I've been in, a 'D' is considered failing. Hell, I took one class where a 'C-' was failing.

shirkbot:

Just to clarify for international audiences, that's a peculiarity of the US education system. 70% = C = GPA 2.0 = Average. I don't pretend to understand, that's just how it is.

It makes some sense if you think about it. Knowing the majority of the material for a class is considered sufficient enough to go on to the next one. Knowing just exactly half or just over half is probably considered not knowing enough to count has having passed. Although why 'barely passing' is 'average' I have no idea. Maybe that's just a quirk of when they introduced that grading system.

'C' isn't actually 'average' anymore due to grade inflation, though. The average is closer to A- or B+. The system could probably use some major recalibrations.

Score inflation has also been a bit of an issue, since some people complain when games don't get near-perfect scores. Remember the Escapist's GTA5 review? Jim made a video on the subject, linked here for reference.


Thank God for Jim Sterling.

LaoJim:

Charcharo:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The other point to make with Jim's reviews is that he tends not to fall into the fallacy that a lot of other reviewers do that says; "This game has clearly had a lot of money spent on it, therefore it must be worth at least an 8, irrespective of any issues we've identified in the review". Lots of other reviews are making many of the same points he is but settling on a higher score (quite a few are still "in-progress" though). I think Jim tends to be forgiving of gameplay or other issues if the game is fun/interesting/unique, but is very harsh on a perceived "lack of soul", especially coming out of a project that has been hyped as much as this has.

I also have to admit to not having quite 'calibrated' myself to the new Escapist review system, however I feel like 3 stars is not the same as 6 out of 10 from most other publications. To my mind the system probably works something like

5 stars = Between 9 and 10.
4 stars = Between 8 and 9.
3 stars = Between 7 and 8.
2 stars = Between 5 and 7.
1 star = Less than 5

Something like that. 3 stars means average which is usually what 7.5 says to me in most reviews.

Jim actually outlined the rating system when he became reviews editor.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/7149-What-Our-Review-Scores-Mean
I like it alot more than the 7-9 scale.

Dear Jim,

God bless you, and thank you for being brave enough to call Destiny on it's "meh" factor. The storytelling really let me down on this one. It remains a good buy so long as the multiplayer community is strong. It certainly is a beautiful game, and the mechanics are fun. But my time with the Beta burned me out fairly quickly...and it certainly did feel like a slog.

Thanks for letting me realize I wasn't the only one who felt this way about it. It isn't a terrible game...it's just...average...and that isn't really worth $60 to me.

FPS MMO with a bajillion dollar budget and advertising up the cork hole every freaking where for months. Of course it wouldn't live up to the hype. Maybe it's decent, I'll never know, since that genre isn't my cup of tea, but I doubt anyone was expecting it to be the second coming of Cthulhu, unless gamers are a bunch of hype happy people with the same disease of the guy from Memento.

BrotherRool:

Vigormortis:

I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you

No worries.

Honestly, I should have worded my post far better than I had. It's context is a bit unclear.

Yup, just as I expected, all hype and nothing spectacular.

myke66:
I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

I'm a fan of MMOs and even I admit that these types of games takes a good while to get you hooked, but even most of my favorite MMOs really hooked me before level 10. If I hit level 20 and I'm still asking myself "am I having fun yet?", I just stop playing and move on to something else, if anyone is telling me "it gets better later on", I just dismiss it as a Stockholm syndrome effect.

Xsjadoblayde:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??

Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. You're welcome.

Anyway, I'm not digging Destiny. Somehow Bungie managed to have worse writing than halo, and honestly I feel even Warframe is a better MMO sci-fi shooter.

Destiny has been incredible fun for me and my friends. It's hit that shooter itch that Titanfall just couldn't for us. It's solid gameplay paired with fun pve and pvp multiplayer and a pinch of Diablo thrown in.

Is the story lacking? Yes it definitely is, but the Diablo 3 story sucked even worse and I'm still having fun playing that.

I think what is causing all the negativity towards Destiny is that it was sold to everyone as this big epic adventure and the story just isn't there.

The only story and epic adventure that really matters in Destiny is the one you and your friends make. The epic last second saves. The awesome multi-kill supers. Getting that awesome exotic weapon. Playing soccer in the tower with friends and random people. That's where the real Destiny story comes from. Forget the traveler, darkness blahblahblah garbage.

So in the end for me Destiny has been extremely fun and I can see myself and my friends playing it for a long time. I can totally see how for some people though it is really disappointing and deserving of the criticism it is getting.

Malpraxis:
I'll never know, since that genre isn't my cup of tea, but I doubt anyone was expecting it to be the second coming of Cthulhu, unless gamers are a bunch of hype happy people with the same disease of the guy from Memento.

Given the general pattern of hype>rage>hype, I kind of wonder if that's the case.

This review is so delicious, sums up all my contempt and disappointment,but seeing as how I didn't pay for this tripe (Alpha and Beta were free) it's just sad to see so many of my buddies sucked into the sticky shallow marsh.

Even then, when I was playing with mates I couldn't wait for them to get tired or for something to drag me away, even the PvP which Jim gave a positive mention for was grating.

Prepare ya butt Jim for all the butthurt fanboys looking for revenge for pointing out they've wasted money.

TBH, this is the first I heard of Destiny being an MMO at all. I hear "The Developers of HALO" I think "Sci-fi FPS", and only that. Still, it looks better than th modern military shooters clogging up the shelves.

I was excited when I heard about this game. Then I heard Bungie would be giving PC gamers the shaft, I was less excited. Then I saw my brother play the Beta, I thought "It looks like a Halo-Boderlands MMO". Now I am glad the PC doesn't have this title.

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