Fox's Gotham Pilot Is Batman without Batman

Fox's Gotham Pilot Is Batman without Batman

Gotham succeeds at doing do Batman without Batman, but depends on its stellar casts to save it from poor writing.

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Suffers against, say, Smallville. Clark has powers. Batman really is not in this at all and shouldn't be. He's a soft rick kid at this time!

The physical appearance of Riddler and Penguin may cause confusion. Riddler's brief appearance is likely the best part of the show.

Big uphill climb.

This shows Batman could be a TV series itself. I want to see these characters but I want to see Batman too! They're probably worried about over exposure of the character that they need to be in movies.

When is Live Action Batman going to stop mispronouncing names? First is was Razz Al Ghoul, and now it's Foul Cone.

It's pronounced Falconey, dummies!

Other than that, it wasn't bad. Decent first episode but it does need to improve.

Much too early to tell what I really think of the series for me, for pilot episodes can be misleading depending if they make any changes after filming. I do hope the script gets better which is probably easier to fix then other issues, but it will take several episodes to really see any changes.

At the very least the show wasn't so bad that I stopped watching halfway through.

I started watching, but haven't finished. I might wait for a few episode reviews before I decide 'yay' or 'nay'. Messing with established continuity in major ways is something that bugs me. Case in point: The Wayne's being 'assassinated'. Joe Chill was meant to just be a desperate guy in a bad place in a corrupt system. Bruce Wayne's realizing that is part of what pushes him from seeking personal revenge to justice for the greater good. There are a thousand Joe Chill's because of the way Gotham is.

Basically with every comic reference I see, my mind is going "How would this work with future Batman? Does it make sense after the Dark Knight appears?" I fear watching the series in that frame of mind will drive me insane.

I really, really wanted to like the episode, because I actually thought the parts with Gordon were pretty cool. But to be honest, the shoehorning of future Batman villains was just ridiculously distracting. I think my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Remember that scene at the end of Rises where we learn that one guy's name was actually "Robin"? It was like that, except several times worse. The episode just winked and nudged so hard that I think I ruptured a kidney.

I knew that they would appear in the show, but I figured it would be handled a little more subtly.

Gorfias:

The physical appearance of Riddler and Penguin may cause confusion. Riddler's brief appearance is likely the best part of the show.

Really? I thought it was the worst. 3 lines of dialogue, all of them belaboured riddles (except when explicitly told not to do so)? I'm with Mahorfeus, it could have and should have been a lot more subtle. If the point is to show the characters grow into what they are in Batman's time, they need some space to develop.

OT: It was interesting enough that I'll catch another episode, but I really hope the writing improves.

Nuxxy:
I started watching, but haven't finished. I might wait for a few episode reviews before I decide 'yay' or 'nay'. Messing with established continuity in major ways is something that bugs me. Case in point: The Wayne's being 'assassinated'. Joe Chill was meant to just be a desperate guy in a bad place in a corrupt system. Bruce Wayne's realizing that is part of what pushes him from seeking personal revenge to justice for the greater good. There are a thousand Joe Chill's because of the way Gotham is.

I don't doubt that Bob will write a column soon about how Gotham is another in the line of "unnecessary conspiracies that miss the point" a la The Amazing Spider-Man or the new TMNT.

Soviet Heavy:
When is Live Action Batman going to stop mispronouncing names? First is was Razz Al Ghoul, and now it's Foul Cone.

It's pronounced Falconey, dummies!

Other than that, it wasn't bad. Decent first episode but it does need to improve.

This has just never really bothered me. Perhaps because I have a last name of French origin and I live in Texas. So I'm used to people not knowing how to properly pronounce a name anyway. Heck most of my family says it wrong if I'm completely honest.

Sorry it bugs you though. We all have our pet peeves so please don't think I'm calling you out or anything. Just making conversation. :)

ZZoMBiE13:

Soviet Heavy:
When is Live Action Batman going to stop mispronouncing names? First is was Razz Al Ghoul, and now it's Foul Cone.

It's pronounced Falconey, dummies!

Other than that, it wasn't bad. Decent first episode but it does need to improve.

This has just never really bothered me. Perhaps because I have a last name of French origin and I live in Texas. So I'm used to people not knowing how to properly pronounce a name anyway. Heck most of my family says it wrong if I'm completely honest.

Sorry it bugs you though. We all have our pet peeves so please don't think I'm calling you out or anything. Just making conversation. :)

I'm really anal about proper pronunciation. When I get something wrong it drives me nuts.

Also, I was only half watching the show, but wasn't it implied that the Wayne Murder was just being used by the crime bosses as an excuse to gain more power? They took credit for it to spread fear, even though it was just a red herring?

I didn't think much of it. It was a crime drama that every now and then, they point out, 'hey hey you know that guy in that Batman universe, here he/she is, isn't it awesome...? I feel like there not gonna do anything with it, other than what I mentioned. It feels safe and absolutely nothing new, I hope they work the lore in a more interesting way.
Also Alfred is a Northerner.... great.

Being honest I'll give it a shot not real connection to the batman in anything but name might be good. Let it do it's own thing. Maybe it will hit maybe it will miss. I'm betting on miss but let deal the care and see where it goes.

Thunderous Cacophony:
Riddler's brief appearance is likely the best part of the show.

Really? I thought it was the worst. 3 lines of dialogue, all of them belaboured riddles (except when explicitly told not to do so)?... it could have and should have been a lot more subtle. If the point is to show the characters grow into what they are in Batman's time, they need some space to develop...[/quote]

Riddler's need to tell riddles is pathological and probably existed long before he would have been old enough to be police staff. I don't want to see his development that far back. Today he is police staff. Something is going to happen to turn him to the dark side!

Catwoman is essentially who she is going to be. Even less room for development.

A good point that development is a big part of why we should bother watching this.

That comedian telling the Jokes. Think he was Joker? The one he told sounded familiar. From an Arkham game?

Gorfias:

Riddler's need to tell riddles is pathological and probably existed long before he would have been old enough to be police staff. I don't want to see his development that far back. Today he is police staff. Something is going to happen to turn him to the dark side!

Catwoman is essentially who she is going to be. Even less room for development.

A good point that development is a big part of why we should bother watching this.

That comedian telling the Jokes. Think he was Joker? The one he told sounded familiar. From an Arkham game?

Honestly, the thought that the stand-up comic might be the Joker never occurred to me. I'm so used to his past being a cipher and layers of lies I didn't think that they would put him so nakedly in the show (but thinking about it now, that's a good observation and they probably work him in for sheer popularity and name recognition).

And I'd like it if the Riddler was started further back in his mental development. He might have an innate love of complex games and logic puzzles, but they don't need to beat us over the head with it. Start him off somewhere near Reed from Criminal Minds; clearly a bit off in the head, way more analytic than the average person and someone who likes showing off how smart they are, and let him go from hobby to full-out obsession and psychosis. One riddle or play on words can go a lot farther than a dozen rapid-fire. As it is, I am just waiting for the "Dark Side" moment when he puts on a green suit, because that snippet we got made me feel like that's the only thing missing from him being the same exact character as the comics.

And I know I'm being really unnecessarily critical of a 30-second cameo in a pilot episode. I may have gotten my hopes too high for the show.

Gorfias:
That comedian telling the Jokes. Think he was Joker? The one he told sounded familiar. From an Arkham game?

There were plans to have a bunch of red herrings for who the Joker might be. We'll see if they follow through with that.

It strikes me that the biggest problem with writing the show with a focus on known characters is that either every character arc has a foregone conclusion or you have to end up in a state that's basically unrecognizable from the perspective of established canon.

And I know everybody always says "Oh, continuity isn't that important to anybody but the diehards anyways" but why even bother including almost exclusively existing characters if you're just going to turn them into entirely different people? You'll just end up irritating those who aren't in the know (Who will likely feel like they missed something) and pissing off the existing fans who were hoping to see their favorite characters do the things their favorite characters do.

For me the star of the show seemed to be the city. Really nice the way they keep New York from feeling like New York but making it feel like the fictional city of Gotham.

Although if they are going to tease us about who might become the Joker they really need to get better with their red herrings, just never felt like the stand up had any chance in comic book hell of ever evolving into the Joker.

I often find that series have rough spots in the early episodes so I've got to give the show several more episodes before I start giving ye olde thumbs up or thumbs down. The base they have established doesn't seem too bad but it's really going to come down to how well they run with the villains. The cops are okay but it's going to take the villains to make this feel like the Batman universe before Batman is old enough to put on the cape and drive the cool car.

There are allusions to her having an unhappy past with Gordon's fiancé, Barbara, and it looks like that might be a romantic history. I love the way Cartagena plays Montoya and her focus on the passion and anger of the character.

Ooh, they've actually got Montoya fairly accurate? Was worried they'd have really messed her character up

Thunderous Cacophony:

And I'd like it if the Riddler was started further back in his mental development. He might have an innate love of complex games and logic puzzles, but they don't need to beat us over the head with it. Start him off somewhere near Reed from Criminal Minds; clearly a bit off in the head, way more analytic than the average person and someone who likes showing off how smart they are, and let him go from hobby to full-out obsession and psychosis. One riddle or play on words can go a lot farther than a dozen rapid-fire. As it is, I am just waiting for the "Dark Side" moment when he puts on a green suit, because that snippet we got made me feel like that's the only thing missing from him being the same exact character as the comics.

Maybe they'll do some time skipping, like Nolan, going into his past and connecting it with who he is now.

Smallville started with the concept that Clark never be in costume. I wonder if that will be true of "Gotham"'s villains, though Catwoman is close now. I too would like to see Nigma don the green.

Mike Hoffman:

There were plans to have a bunch of red herrings for who the Joker might be. We'll see if they follow through with that.

That could be fun! I'm going to drive myself nuts though, trying to figure out where I've heard that joke before.

Canon: Joker doesn't become the Joker (Maybe not even the Red Hood) till Batman is Batman, which won't happen on this show.

Mike Hoffman:
Fortunately, Gotham doesn't depend as heavily on the costumed villains as it does the corrupt police department and organized crime established in the comics

Organised crime, yes... But apart from that my take away was exactly the opposite. It felt like they depended way too heavily on the villain cameos (at least in the first half), and that they didnt show us any corrupt policing at all.

We get told at one point that corrupt cops may have planted evidence. Apart from that we see Gordon, the hero; we see Bullock, who is corrupt but played off as complicated and maybe not such a bad guy; we see the major crimes guys who are portrayed as scrupulously clean and intent on getting rid of corruption; we see the standard police captain; and we see a by-the-book beat cop at the crime scene at the start.

So far, the only corrupt police we've seen is the one person that Gordon already knows about and doesnt seem to be too concerned about locking up. But for some reason hes suddenly filled with a righteous zeal to clean up all this invisible police corruption.

(All that said, I still enjoyed it)

It's sad that my favorite character on the show is the mafia boss. Yes, the bad guy was more interesting that everything else. Overall my problem with the show is pacing. In the first few mins they try to pop out all their characters. The cat woman (girl) cameo seems rather pointless for the first episode. They could have strung the whole "who shot the Waynes" abit longer. Could have build up some intrigue and suspense. There is such potential in the characters, but it's story is junky. I'll give it two more tries before I give up on it. I really want it to get good.

The villains have always been the most interesting thing about Batman and they're removing a lot of their interesting traits in favor of gritty "realism". That trend in everything is getting really tiresome. It seems like any stupid cop drama on TV with slightly goofier antagonists.

Mahorfeus:
I really, really wanted to like the episode, because I actually thought the parts with Gordon were pretty cool. But to be honest, the shoehorning of future Batman villains was just ridiculously distracting. I think my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Remember that scene at the end of Rises where we learn that one guy's name was actually "Robin"? It was like that, except several times worse. The episode just winked and nudged so hard that I think I ruptured a kidney.

I knew that they would appear in the show, but I figured it would be handled a little more subtly.

This pretty much sums up how I felt about the episode. Here, I was expecting something more along the lines of Batman: Year One (Focusing on Gordon's eventual rise to police chief, his involvement in changing the corruption of the city, and seeing how "normal" criminals functioned before the rise of Batman and the super criminals that followed). Instead I just stood there shaking my head as they paraded villain after villain without even a shred of subtlety.

 

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