Captain America 3 Is About What?!

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Captain America 3 Is About What?!

With Marvel's Civil War storyline making the jump to the movies, things are about to get interesting in the cinematic universe.

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I'll be honest; I wasn't the biggest fan of Civil War.

Burnouts3s3:
I'll be honest; I wasn't the biggest fan of Civil War.

Most people didn't like Civil War. The writers completely missed their guess as to who the fans would support.
I can't even believe that Marvel hasn't buried the memory of the series. It's like DC making a Countdown movie.

I loved the idea of Civil War, but the narrative was just spread too thin and was too disjointed. I loved the Spider-Man stuff, but I hated having to read X-Force and the Thunderbolts stuff just to know what was going on. And even then, some of the stuff in one book would go completely unaddressed in the next one. I remember finishing one of the Deadpool books with him cornered by Cap and his team, and then starting the next Cap book with Deadpool no where to be seen and them doing something else completely unrelated. Maybe the Marvel Unlimited App screwed up the reading order but consistency was still a huge problem.

I heard there's a novelization of it, maybe I'll read that. As long as I don't have to care about the fucking Thunderbolts, I'll probably be okay.

So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

shintakie10:
So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

Civil war happened just after House of M. There were only around 100 mutants left in the world so they chose not to take sides.

OT:

I have mixed feeling about this. I did not hate the civil war arc but it was not my favorite and I really don't see it working without the F4 or spidy. That being said I will not judge it until I see it. I only hope they don't exclude Doctor Strange like they did in the comics. His reason for not getting involved was in character but I really wanted to see what side he would pick.

Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

In response to Civil War I give you this.
image

JCAll:

Most people didn't like Civil War. The writers completely missed their guess as to who the fans would support.
I can't even believe that Marvel hasn't buried the memory of the series. It's like DC making a Countdown movie.

Except that as a concept the Civil War scenario is intriguing with lots of potential for both some though-provoking social commentary as well as some actually decent reasons for superheroes to be fighting one another with some actual consequence.

It's arguably the most suitable crossover event ever to bring to the Marvel Movie Universe that'd struggle to incorporate more complicated plotlines involving Skrull invasions, time-travel or alternate universes. The chief obstacle to overcome will surely be adapting the idea to suit the characters better than the comic Civil War did. The Civil War didn't do nearly enough work to establish a consistent basis for Tony Stark's dissonant descent that saw him jump from supporting the relatively harmless yet highly exploitable Registration Act to working with villains and having Superhero prison camps.

Personally I felt that ideologically speaking it would have made much more sense for Captain America to be the one to go overboard in support of governmental oversight and that main reason they plumped for Stark doing so is that the fans would be less resistant to the idea of Tony being in the wrong and acting like an ass than Steve doing the same.

Hopefully the movies will use more nuance with their adaptation of this idea and won't simply paint the pro-reg heroes as immoderate fascists and the anti-reg people as principled rebels.

I'm wondering if they'll make Ant-Man 'stand-in' for Spider-Man on this one.

LostPause:
[quote="JCAll" post="6.863113.21517284"]Personally I felt that ideologically speaking it would have made much more sense for Captain America to be the one to go overboard in support of governmental oversight and that main reason they plumped for Stark doing so is that the fans would be less resistant to the idea of Tony being in the wrong and acting like an ass than Steve doing the same.

Also having Captain America unironically open up a concentration camp would have just been a whirlwind of bad publicity.

I'm... A bit hesitant about the idea, really. The idea is interesting enough, but then it had to turn all political and that kinda ruined everything. Hopefully, writers won't make the same mistakes... (Crosses fingers and knocks on wood)

Civil War was a story which was an amazing concept, but the execution landed flat on its face.

The major issues was the lack of consistency. Marvel didn't say what the registration actually was, not even to the writers, so you ended up with the problem of some stories treating it as just "fill out this file to let the government know who you are and what you can do", while others treated it as "you are working for us and must do whatever we tell you, and if you don't we will kick your door in at midnight and drag you to the Negative Zone kicking and screaming the whole way".

With all the inconsistencies and the writers being split on the issue, the whole thing ended up being a mess. Which is too bad because it had the opportunity to be a very great morally ambiguous story where neither side is objectively or morally more right or wrong then the other, and which you believe is would be down to belief.

If they do use it for the movies, it probably will end up much better then the comics due to the mandated consistency in the stories on top of the cooperation between writers.

LostPause:

JCAll:

Most people didn't like Civil War. The writers completely missed their guess as to who the fans would support.
I can't even believe that Marvel hasn't buried the memory of the series. It's like DC making a Countdown movie.

Except that as a concept the Civil War scenario is intriguing with lots of potential for both some though-provoking social commentary as well as some actually decent reasons for superheroes to be fighting one another with some actual consequence.

It's arguably the most suitable crossover event ever to bring to the Marvel Movie Universe that'd struggle to incorporate more complicated plotlines involving Skrull invasions, time-travel or alternate universes. The chief obstacle to overcome will surely be adapting the idea to suit the characters better than the comic Civil War did. The Civil War didn't do nearly enough work to establish a consistent basis for Tony Stark's dissonant descent that saw him jump from supporting the relatively harmless yet highly exploitable Registration Act to working with villains and having Superhero prison camps.

Personally I felt that ideologically speaking it would have made much more sense for Captain America to be the one to go overboard in support of governmental oversight and that main reason they plumped for Stark doing so is that the fans would be less resistant to the idea of Tony being in the wrong and acting like an ass than Steve doing the same.

Hopefully the movies will use more nuance with their adaptation of this idea and won't simply paint the pro-reg heroes as immoderate fascists and the anti-reg people as principled rebels.

It fits even less with Cap's personality and history to Support the Government over the people than it does for Tony. The whole point of Captain America as a character is that he fights for the people of the nation not it's government.

He's fought against the government each time they've tried to get him to do something he finds something he's morally opposed to. That's where US Agent came from The government wanted someone they could control when Cap didn't follow an order he found unconstitutional.

It could be interesting. The issues raised in the story (from what I remember) are still relevant, and I'm sure they could come up with writers that would do a great job with it...but I dunno. It certainly is a good idea to bring the issues to a wider audience (comprising people that might not be following it, or following it that closely), and get more people into the debate about civil liberties in the modern age, but the more I think about it, the more this quote keeps coming back to me (oddly enough, from another Marvel character, Squirrel Girl):

"Maybe it's just me, but I'm not crazy about super hero stories where everything's all dark and moody. Personally, I like the ones where good guys fight giant apes on the moon and stuff. Remember those? I do. That was back when comic book worlds were places you wanted to escape to... not from."

I'm not saying that the Movieverse should shy away from subjects like this, but it's not as if there isn't enough of it on the news on a regular basis. Time will tell, I guess.

- THM

With Civil War i think it will be a slight rumble in CA3 and something that will grow over a number of movies until a final escalation. I doubt they will start and end it in one movie.

Winnosh:
Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

In response to Civil War I give you this.
image

Argh, I was just about to do the same.

But, yes, Annihilation was amazing, and this scene is but one of many reasons why Richard Rider is my favorite Marvel hero.

... Miss you, Rich.

THM:
It could be interesting. The issues raised in the story (from what I remember) are still relevant, and I'm sure they could come up with writers that would do a great job with it...but I dunno. It certainly is a good idea to bring the issues to a wider audience (comprising people that might not be following it, or following it that closely), and get more people into the debate about civil liberties in the modern age, but the more I think about it, the more this quote keeps coming back to me (oddly enough, from another Marvel character, Squirrel Girl):

"Maybe it's just me, but I'm not crazy about super hero stories where everything's all dark and moody. Personally, I like the ones where good guys fight giant apes on the moon and stuff. Remember those? I do. That was back when comic book worlds were places you wanted to escape to... not from."

I'm not saying that the Movieverse should shy away from subjects like this, but it's not as if there isn't enough of it on the news on a regular basis. Time will tell, I guess.

- THM

Honestly, I'd like to see them do something darker for once. It seems like almost all of their movies are tonally identical: Happy go lucky. Winter Soldier was the first to go in a darker direction, and while I had a lot of issues with the movie, the different tone was something I enjoyed.

People complained about DC movies always being so dark, but when you think about it, it's only been 4 movies which have been spread out over a long period of time. I'd like Marvel to try this out (just don't do a Man of Steel), we've had around 8 movies with the happy go lucky tone, try something else so we aren't watching the same thing.

If they can execute it correctly, I think this story-line will be a breath of fresh air for the series.

Sounds ok, my main concern is that it will be small time like maybe a total for 10 super heroes would somehow represent this epic war due to budget. I hate when studios do that. If they do it they gotta go big like move forward in the timeline and have like a hundred superheroes running around, spider-man and the x-men would be nice :'(

Idk I liked Avengers ok...very ok, but it frustrated me that they took Mark Millars Ultimates 2 storylines and dumbed it down to just loki and thanos. In the books it was all of the non security council countries getting sick of americas shit and got tricked by Loki into Invading the US. Much cooler story.

Somehow I can't see Iron Man getting all buddy-buddy with a government registration program after that courtroom bit in Iron Man 2...
Although, as a regular squishy person I'd be all for the government knowing about who can shoot lasers out of their ass. Did you SEE all the colateral damage in the Avengers? So... Team Stark, I guess :p

Floppertje:
Somehow I can't see Iron Man getting all buddy-buddy with a government registration program after that courtroom bit in Iron Man 2...
Although, as a regular squishy person I'd be all for the government knowing about who can shoot lasers out of their ass. Did you SEE all the colateral damage in the Avengers? So... Team Stark, I guess :p

Yes but would you be up for the government forcing every one with some sort of special ability into a military police force against their will and using them against American Citizens.

They weren't just taking people with powers, they were taking anyone of exceptional ability, Even if that person had never put on a costume or fought a bank robber.

Winnosh:

Floppertje:
Somehow I can't see Iron Man getting all buddy-buddy with a government registration program after that courtroom bit in Iron Man 2...
Although, as a regular squishy person I'd be all for the government knowing about who can shoot lasers out of their ass. Did you SEE all the colateral damage in the Avengers? So... Team Stark, I guess :p

Yes but would you be up for the government forcing every one with some sort of special ability into a military police force against their will and using them against American Citizens.

They weren't just taking people with powers, they were taking anyone of exceptional ability, Even if that person had never put on a costume or fought a bank robber.

Well... no. To be clear: I never read the comics (any superhero comics. they're not really big in Europe), so my knowledge of Civil War is based off the name and this article. I'm totally on board with people being required to register any guns they have with the government and I don't see that it matters much that that gun is also your eyes. But police force against civilians... no. makes it even weirder that Stark would be OK with that. Although he himself hasn't always shown the most care when using the suit around civilians, like at his birthday party.

Winnosh:
Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

After reading so much of the cosmic and Doctor Strange stuff from Marvel, I often get the feeling that so much of what happens in the X-Men and the Avengers are the small side-stories rather than the other way around.

I wonder if anyone will comment on why most of the Infinity Stone stuff seems to be centered around Earth or at least Earthlings. Artifacts of cosmic significance are being found left and right by a species that hasn't ventured past its own moon.

Civil War was a great concept that had poor execution. The problem as I understand it is that they eventually turned Iron Man into a fascist and portrayed the who Pro-Registration side as straight-up bad guys. If they play up the moral ambiguity and have both sides portrayed as having valid points (and let's face it: they do) like they said they would, they could make it work this time. Hell, they already have the Winter Soldier in place. I would totally be down for them going full-hilt with the death of Captain America storyline. You know, provided that they make it stick. I adore the Cap and all, but major character deaths lose their meaning of they're always temporary.

I could not care about that abomination of a storyline called Civil War. So, now that's out of the way. Secondly, I don't think Marvel ultimately won't go through with it because if they want to bring in RDJ for more than a cameo... then there are millions of other ways to do it.

Also the chance of this film rubbing the fans (and people who generally enjoyed the Marvel films) the wrong way is 10 to 1. Or is Marvel aiming for that so much cherished Oscar by making a very gritty film and burning all other bridges behind them? Time will tell.

Having Robert Downey Jr. play the sided of the guv'ment would be weird and awkward considering he was all up in Nick Fury's face during the Avengers film. And trolling senator Stern (Garry Shandling) when he was in a hearing for handing over the Iron Man project during Iron Man 2. Well, the list could go on but these are a few prime examples.

As Zontar said, the biggest problem with Civil War was that the Marvel higher-ups didn't give the various writers a clear enough description of how the registration system actually worked, so there was too little coherence with how it was portrayed and how the various characters reacted to it.

That's one problem the MCU doesn't have. And I still think Civil War was a good idea for a story.

I think the framework of Civil War was good, even if it's execution was off at times. I think that JW will do a better job with crafting this into a singular narrative.

Overall, This is so damn awesome.

Winnosh:

Floppertje:
Somehow I can't see Iron Man getting all buddy-buddy with a government registration program after that courtroom bit in Iron Man 2...
Although, as a regular squishy person I'd be all for the government knowing about who can shoot lasers out of their ass. Did you SEE all the colateral damage in the Avengers? So... Team Stark, I guess :p

Yes but would you be up for the government forcing every one with some sort of special ability into a military police force against their will and using them against American Citizens.

They weren't just taking people with powers, they were taking anyone of exceptional ability, Even if that person had never put on a costume or fought a bank robber.

What the government did with powered people really varied from comic to comic (which was one of the main flaws of Civil War)

sure, in one issue they were drafting anyone and everyone into a secret army to control america

but in another it was like getting a gun carry permit

and in another they simply trained young supers and let them run around as heroes

...Idunno man it was weird. And bad.

the only way I can see this working is if they really get into the "Age of Miracles" comment from the end of Cap 2. with not-mutants popping up all over the world and everyone deciding what to do with them.

shintakie10:
So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

I was just about to say that. Even with just ~200 mutants left in the world after House of M, the X-Men staying out of a fight over Registration doesn't make sense.

Cpt. Slow:
I could not care about that abomination of a storyline called Civil War. So, now that's out of the way. Secondly, I don't think Marvel ultimately won't go through with it because if they want to bring in RDJ for more than a cameo... then there are millions of other ways to do it.

Also the chance of this film rubbing the fans (and people who generally enjoyed the Marvel films) the wrong way is 10 to 1. Or is Marvel aiming for that so much cherished Oscar by making a very gritty film and burning all other bridges behind them? Time will tell.

Having Robert Downey Jr. play the sided of the guv'ment would be weird and awkward considering he was all up in Nick Fury's face during the Avengers film. And trolling senator Stern (Garry Shandling) when he was in a hearing for handing over the Iron Man project during Iron Man 2. Well, the list could go on but these are a few prime examples.

If you saw Winter Soldier, you'd now Stern was a member of HYDRA the whole time, so they probably wanted the Iron Man suit for themselves. 1 year after Iron Man 3 and I still wonder if A.I.M. had any links to them.

Sylocat:
As Zontar said, the biggest problem with Civil War was that the Marvel higher-ups didn't give the various writers a clear enough description of how the registration system actually worked, so there was too little coherence with how it was portrayed and how the various characters reacted to it.

That's one problem the MCU doesn't have. And I still think Civil War was a good idea for a story.

That's why props should go to Captain America's writer at the time, Ed Brubaker, for portraying both Cap and Iron Man as having valid points and for especially not turning Iron Man into Robo-Hitler or whatever. Besides, anyone who interprets Steve's last will and testament as "Make Bucky the new Cap and throw him at the Red Skull" can't be all bad.

Maybe Marvel's movie writers can do something with it. But I'm not sure it's a good idea to remind people of Civil War, since it was so poorly received.

LostPause:

Personally I felt that ideologically speaking it would have made much more sense for Captain America to be the one to go overboard in support of governmental oversight and that main reason they plumped for Stark doing so is that the fans would be less resistant to the idea of Tony being in the wrong and acting like an ass than Steve doing the same.

Captain America doesn't do that sort of thing, though. This is the guy who took off the costume because he objected to the government in the 80s.

Tony Stark, however, has done some similar, sweeping things in the past. Maybe not as far as the registration act, but enough to say it's in his character and ideology.

Winnosh:
Argh not that crappy Civil War. I was so happy I could ignore most of it and read the far superior Annihilation story that was going on at the same time.

In response to Civil War I give you this.

I actually enjoyed the Civil War enough, if only because of the significant amount of social commentary it offered (that Bob didn't mention). But Annihilation was much better. I like the fallout so much more with World War Hulk (one of the best Hulk stories in my living memory). And there were two moments of post civil war that I absolutely loved. One was the scene you mentioned above. It was just cathartic to see Tony Stark get ripped a new asshole during his sales pitch to get Richard Ryder to register. It displayed the absolute insanity of Stark's Shield and post Civil War America when you your pitching the guy who saved the entire universe to do the right thing and register.

The other mega cathartic scene for me was this:

image

He had that coming big time.

Edit: I tried spoiler'ing it, but it would not work for some reason.

Well last time I checked the whole 'Civil War in the MCU' was pure speculation. I haven't seen ANY official statement from Marvel regarding this and currently I find it highly unlikely

The civil war was about super heroes secret identity, but none of the superheroes in the current MCU have secret identities and there just isn't enough superheroes in MCU right now that will make a civil war story make sense. Maybe if they had spiderman or the xmen it would make more sense, but they don't.

A civil war type story line would only be logical if they had already establish a universe within the MCU where there are numerous superheroes with secret identity, this is not the case at this point.

Also, the civil war stories sucks.

A fight over super-registration. This will probably have something to do with the presence of Gifted, Miracles, or whatever else Dis-vel wants to call people born with powers in their movies.

So my guess is the driving force behind this will be Cap opposing a VERY X-Men style registration act because, and Cap's afraid it will lead to camps (internment, concentration, or something else altogether.) Tony's in favor because...he knows a thing or two about "human/living weapons" and wants to minimize the damage they can do?

Darth_Payn:

shintakie10:
So they're goin to do the Civil War story where most of the major players that aren't Cap and aren't Iron Man can't be shown. No Fantastic Four, no Spiderman, no Wolverine. You could get a Punisher in there, but considerin the MCU hasn't introduced the character yet and I haven't heard about anythin remotely involvin him it'd be a really strange tie in.

I do remember thinkin while the Civil War arc was goin on how extremely strange it was that the X-Men or really any mutants didn't join either side. It literally is the same story that was a central point of the X-Men universe for years and none of them care enough to have an opinion? The most I remember was a throwaway line about how they didn't want to get their fight tangled with the other superheroes fight, but that's such a cop-out that it boggles my mind.

I was just about to say that. Even with just ~200 mutants left in the world after House of M, the X-Men staying out of a fight over Registration doesn't make sense.

Well, why they stayed out was written into the story. Everyone tried getting the mutants on their side. But in the end, the few left in the world didn't feel it was right to risk their entire people over something that didn't technically involve them. They were not made to register and had basically declared their own country with the understanding they would not include themselves. They also went through a very similar thing themselves (mutant registration). It was a big point of contention with Wolverine and Cyclops.

Edit OT: My thought is this... it's weird because there isn't enough people in their universe with powers that aren't gods or just really smart and augmented somehow. They are finally touching on people with actual powers in Agents of Shield, making that show more important than ever. I mean, we have yet to see Age of Ultron, but with the exception of Captain America, we haven't really seen normal humans with powers of some kind. There is the Hulk... but good luck with that one. Right now, off the top of my head, there are roughly 4 people in the MCU that would need to register.

Time will tell what happens here, but they are ill equipped for such a story (no purpose for it yet). We'll have to see what happens in the coming few years and the MCU.

Well, given a premise like the Civil War it seems like Marvel Studios can use this opprotunity to make a movie that isn't just a dumb actio- *breaks out into laughter*

Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face. Anyways, if there's one thing you can rely on from the MCU it's for them to make a film that's half-assed in all but the exterior elements. To me, watching these movies is like cutting myself a larger slice of cake than I should. It seems like a fun idea at first, but half an hour after the deed is done I'm in pain and wondering why I did it in the first place.

Seeing Marvel continually fail to get my hopes up makes me wish there was a studio out there with the balls/budget/talent to adapt Worm to the screen, so people can finally have a reference point for a smart, interesting superhero film that isn't The Dark Knight (granted, Worm's obscene length would probably make it better suited for television but the point still stands).

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