Gotham Introduces Super Powers and the World's Greatest Detective

Gotham Introduces Super Powers and the World's Greatest Detective

"Viper" brings super powers and pseudo-science to Gotham and it's just the shift the series needs right now.

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Mike Hoffman:
(Snip).

Typo in title: should read 'World's Greatest Detective'. Also (emphasis mine):

The man behind it all, a biochemist named Stan Potolski - whom Gordon and Bullock stop before he has a chance to poisoning a charity luncheon for Wayne Enterprises - gets blasted with Viper and just kind of disappears, but only after telling the detective duo to check out a warehouse.

Thanks for the article. Interesting read.

The shift it needs? The only thing it needs is to end. You know what makes Gotham interesting? Well, the colorful cast of villains and (anti?)heroes, and none of them are present. I have watched maybe 40 minutes of it, and after hearing the incresingly dumb lines, I got fed up and quit. But together with a friend we decided to just go ahead and try to map out the stereotypical characters and see which ones we get right. Our guesses were:
-Selina Kyle is a pickpocket and she likes cats, and she probably is a bit promiscuous. She may also get a namechange to something cat-related
-Pamela Isley has a garden or is a florist. Possible namechange(Isley-Ivey)
-The Joker is a failed comedian or a clown. We may also get a name
-Alfred is a rough war veteran, possibly with an overly done British accent(scouser or cockney)
-Edward Nygma poses riddles. Lots of them. ALl the time. He is also a nerd probably.
-Killer Croc is a zookeeper or pet trainer. Possible namechange to something reptile-related.
-Bane is a bodybuilder. Possible name given.(John Baneson?)
-Mr Freeze works at the local Hockey ring or is a Hockey player/coach. Or an Antarctic explorer. FORESHADOWING!
-Harley Quinn works at a costume shop and is in an abusive relationship.
-Two-face is always tossing a coin. You may not get to see him a lot, but he's always tossing it somewhere in the background.
-Manbat has a lot of bats in his attic. Also, possible namechange because Langstrom sounds too complicated for studio execs.
-Bruce is angry all the time and listens to Marylin Manson or something stupid like that.
-The Waynes death was no accident! It was all a huge conspiracy by Ras'al Ghul or something.
-The Penguin likes penguins and his parents hate that he keeps penguin in their huge manor. Did I say something about penguins? Yeah, he has penguin t-shirts. And he eats fish. With style.
-Gordon mopes. Like a lot. More than the guy in Man of Steel. And he is a dumbass or a brilliant detective, depending on what the plot needs.

How many did we get right?

Well done, claiming a series that you do not like and have watched for 40 minutes needs to end, spoiling the fun for everyone that enjoys it.
Thank you.
Also, from the few characters on your list that have appeared yet, you got approximately 2 right, Gordon mopes and Alfred is british. Congratulations.

On the episode:
Liked it. The Venom hint was a nice touch and I actually find it interesting what they are doing with Wayne Enterprises.
They hinted at similar things in the Nolan Films, but I actually find it interesting and realistic that the maybe most powerful company
has a lot of bodys in its cellar and that the Waynes maybe were killed because they were "too nice"

Yes, a big point of the Batman Mythos and Gothams characterization was always the "accidental" type of death of the parents. Showing how bad, dirty and rotten the city is, that the most famous couple of the city just gets murdered by a random mugger.

But let's be honest, being the nicest people in a city run by corruption and organized crime HAS to make you a few enemies. Especially if you are not the "I let people run the company for me and be a doctor" - type of guy the Thomas Wayne of the Movies was. This guy seemed to care, he was involved in his company and he was in the way.
The "multi-billion-dollar company conspiracy" may be a litte walked down, but we have to see what they will do with it.

I hope this show will continue for some time and only get better.

Hiramas:
Well done, claiming a series that you do not like and have watched for 40 minutes needs to end, spoiling the fun for everyone that enjoys it.
Thank you.
Also, from the few characters on your list that have appeared yet, you got approximately 2 right, Gordon mopes and Alfred is british. Congratulations.

On the episode:
Liked it. The Venom hint was a nice touch and I actually find it interesting what they are doing with Wayne Enterprises.
They hinted at similar things in the Nolan Films, but I actually find it interesting and realistic that the maybe most powerful company
has a lot of bodys in its cellar and that the Waynes maybe were killed because they were "too nice"

Yes, a big point of the Batman Mythos and Gothams characterization was always the "accidental" type of death of the parents. Showing how bad, dirty and rotten the city is, that the most famous couple of the city just gets murdered by a random mugger.

But let's be honest, being the nicest people in a city run by corruption and organized crime HAS to make you a few enemies. Especially if you are not the "I let people run the company for me and be a doctor" - type of guy the Thomas Wayne of the Movies was. This guy seemed to care, he was involved in his company and he was in the way.
The "multi-billion-dollar company conspiracy" may be a litte walked down, but we have to see what they will do with it.

I hope this show will continue for some time and only get better.

Just a short wiki search proved that most of them were right. Also, I do hope I spoil the fun for everyone. It's what this contrived garbage deserves. And if I am spoiling it, then call me Morpheus because I am forcefeeding you the pill.
But i do find you trying to defend the essential mythos change with some sort of half-baked logic funny in a desperate sort of way.
To be honest, I hope this show continues for a long time, until we actually get to see Batman and his rogue gallery, not a bunch of namesakes in a redundant hal-assed "The Shield" remake.

Tojumaru:

Hiramas:
Well done, claiming a series that you do not like and have watched for 40 minutes needs to end, spoiling the fun for everyone that enjoys it.
Thank you.
Also, from the few characters on your list that have appeared yet, you got approximately 2 right, Gordon mopes and Alfred is british. Congratulations.

On the episode:
Liked it. The Venom hint was a nice touch and I actually find it interesting what they are doing with Wayne Enterprises.
They hinted at similar things in the Nolan Films, but I actually find it interesting and realistic that the maybe most powerful company
has a lot of bodys in its cellar and that the Waynes maybe were killed because they were "too nice"

Yes, a big point of the Batman Mythos and Gothams characterization was always the "accidental" type of death of the parents. Showing how bad, dirty and rotten the city is, that the most famous couple of the city just gets murdered by a random mugger.

But let's be honest, being the nicest people in a city run by corruption and organized crime HAS to make you a few enemies. Especially if you are not the "I let people run the company for me and be a doctor" - type of guy the Thomas Wayne of the Movies was. This guy seemed to care, he was involved in his company and he was in the way.
The "multi-billion-dollar company conspiracy" may be a litte walked down, but we have to see what they will do with it.

I hope this show will continue for some time and only get better.

Just a short wiki search proved that most of them were right. Also, I do hope I spoil the fun for everyone. It's what this contrived garbage deserves. And if I am spoiling it, then call me Morpheus because I am forcefeeding you the pill.
But i do find you trying to defend the essential mythos change with some sort of half-baked logic funny in a desperate sort of way.
To be honest, I hope this show continues for a long time, until we actually get to see Batman and his rogue gallery, not a bunch of namesakes in a redundant hal-assed "The Shield" remake.

How many episodes are we into now? 5/6? ish? how about wait till the season ends? let the show find itself, sometimes thats all it takes to make a meh tv show great.

They have a lot of source material to work from, and watching a young Bruce Wayne research his parents death with Alfred beside him, sounds to me like a very good start to someone who is going to end up as one of the most recognizable super hero's ever created. They could of just had him off to the side, and not be interesting, i'm surprised they took this route with Bruce.

That's the main gist, it can't find itself as is has no identity. Had they done something like Year Zeo, or Year One, I could see that not only working, but being actually great. But this? It's just a bunch of dudes at their most uninteresting. That's like making a show about Robin Hood without him, Lady Marion or the Sheriff of Nottingham. It would be a bunch of dudes messing around in some woods. Or how about Indiana Jones in middle-school? Have the nazi guy do some police work for the Gestapo, or Bellocque working in a museum and Marion be a toddler, all while Indiana Jones Sr. looks at old statues. It is a retarded concept, and people who watch it only like Batman, not a good story. Actually, I question the taste in film or TV shows of anyone who actually likes this.

Tojumaru:

Just a short wiki search proved that most of them were right.

I'd like to see that wiki; a lot of the characters you've listed haven't even been in the show, and the ones that are there are only tangentially right.

Tojumaru:
-Selina Kyle is a pickpocket and she likes cats, and she probably is a bit promiscuous. She may also get a namechange to something cat-related
-Pamela Isley has a garden or is a florist. Possible namechange(Isley-Ivey)
-The Joker is a failed comedian or a clown. We may also get a name
-Alfred is a rough war veteran, possibly with an overly done British accent(scouser or cockney)
-Edward Nygma poses riddles. Lots of them. ALl the time. He is also a nerd probably.
-Killer Croc is a zookeeper or pet trainer. Possible namechange to something reptile-related.
-Bane is a bodybuilder. Possible name given.(John Baneson?)
-Mr Freeze works at the local Hockey ring or is a Hockey player/coach. Or an Antarctic explorer. FORESHADOWING!
-Harley Quinn works at a costume shop and is in an abusive relationship.
-Two-face is always tossing a coin. You may not get to see him a lot, but he's always tossing it somewhere in the background.
-Manbat has a lot of bats in his attic. Also, possible namechange because Langstrom sounds too complicated for studio execs.
-Bruce is angry all the time and listens to Marylin Manson or something stupid like that.
-The Waynes death was no accident! It was all a huge conspiracy by Ras'al Ghul or something.
-The Penguin likes penguins and his parents hate that he keeps penguin in their huge manor. Did I say something about penguins? Yeah, he has penguin t-shirts. And he eats fish. With style.
-Gordon mopes. Like a lot. More than the guy in Man of Steel. And he is a dumbass or a brilliant detective, depending on what the plot needs.

How many did we get right?

- Selina Kyle is a pickpocket, likes cats (not in a "carries one around" way, but a "will pet a cat that's in the room"), and is about 14. The first two are pretty fitting for a character who will eventually use cat motifs and commit crimes.
- Pamela Isley is Ivy Pepper, and is a little girl. She was a background character in one episode.
- Alfred is a butler, no war history mentioned, and he has the Cockney accent that people who saw the Dark Knight trilogy expect from Caine's replacement
- Edward Nygma is a nerd (forensics guy with Gotham PD), and he does like riddles. This is probably the most accurate prediction, because it's exactly what the character is like in the comics.
- Bruce is angry, and sad, like a little boy who saw his parents murdered a few weeks ago. He is also motivated by these feelings to do more to help the city, to learn what his parents did and why. No long moping montages or Marilyn Manson, only a diamond forming under pressure.
- The Penguin has absolutely nothing to do with penguins other than wearing a nice suit and being pigeon-toed, which led to a mocking nickname. No mansion, no t-shirts, no fish. He is a manipulative, murderous wannabe crimelord, though.
-The Waynes may or may not have been killed as part of some conspiracy. No Ra's al Ghul, just maybe mob bosses.
- Gordon doesn't mope, and he is a good but not stupendous detective (considering the show is about him being a detective, not many points for that one).

Not in the show, AFAIK:
-Joker (fan theory that he was a stand-up comic in the background of one episode, but absolutely no proof beyond wishes)
-Killer Croc
-Bane
-Mr. Freeze
Harley Quinn
-Two Face
-Manbat

So about half the list isn't in the show, and the rest are almost all a bit wrong, and mostly very wrong. So I'd highly recommend actually watching the show before passing judgement on it on it's viewers; even if you still don't like it, you might see what it is about the show that people like. (personally, I'm a fan of semi-supernatural shows, police dramas, and also Batman).

I have a question about the show. My wife and I were trying to nail down the time period in which this show takes place. I was pretty confident in thinking this was set in the early to mid nineties, with the prevalence of CRT televisions, Bruce's bulky remote control, and Liza's audio cassette player. What threw me was the use of earbud headphones at the end of the episode. I know such things may have existed, but certainly weren't common or popular until the arrival of the iPod in 2001. Does anyone have any theories when this story takes place?

JSRevenge:
I have a question about the show. My wife and I were trying to nail down the time period in which this show takes place. I was pretty confident in thinking this was set in the early to mid nineties, with the prevalence of CRT televisions, Bruce's bulky remote control, and Liza's audio cassette player. What threw me was the use of earbud headphones at the end of the episode. I know such things may have existed, but certainly weren't common or popular until the arrival of the iPod in 2001. Does anyone have any theories when this story takes place?

I think "Gotham" is following in the footsteps of most Batman adaptations, and setting the story in the modern day, but taking elements from different eras to create a distinct style. For example, the animated series from the 90s had a lot of design elements from the 50s (especially car designs), but people still had cellphones and laptops. Tim Burton's Batman had a really strange style that couldn't be placed in a particular time period. And the comics have been around for 75 years, but are always set in the modern day. So I'd say the time period is "Comic Book Time."

You know, I'm sort actually enjoying this, but in a campy and Rifftrax way. There's a sense of joy in watching it live and just tweeting about the stupidity the plots, characters and situations everyone goes through.

Impossibilium:

I think "Gotham" is following in the footsteps of most Batman adaptations, and setting the story in the modern day, but taking elements from different eras to create a distinct style. For example, the animated series from the 90s had a lot of design elements from the 50s (especially car designs), but people still had cellphones and laptops. Tim Burton's Batman had a really strange style that couldn't be placed in a particular time period. And the comics have been around for 75 years, but are always set in the modern day. So I'd say the time period is "Comic Book Time."

I agree that a lot of it is aesthetics, but the technology is distinctly downgraded. After playing Arkham Origins, it's a little jarring to see a conscious use of low-tech consumer products in a Batman production. I realize the earbuds serve as a plot device to initiate an activity between characters, so I probably shouldn't focus too much on it. It would have equally failed to immerse if Liza walked up with a Talkboy a la Home Alone 2.

Tojumaru:
The shift it needs? The only thing it needs is to end.
*snip*

Hey, welcome to The Escapist!

the show has some of the worst dialogue I've seen. It's something I've pointed out repeatedly in my earlier reviews. Still, the show always has some elements about it that are strong. The cast is great and does as well as they can with such a weak script, especially Bullock, Cobblepot, and usually Mooney. Ultimately, though, the show is frustrating.

I can never say, "Gotham is good." I always have to say, "Gotham is good, but..." There is always a qualifier to any compliment I want to give it. "Bruce and Alfred's scenes were great last episode, but the characters are never consistent, so we'll see how they are next time." "The acting is great, but the script is terrible." "Seeing these cops react to super strong people is fantastic, but why are people still taking this drug?"

It has potential, and I look forward to the back half of the season (the episodes that weren't filmed until after the show premiered). It'll be telling to see what the writers and directors do after seeing public reactions to the show.

JSRevenge:
I have a question about the show. My wife and I were trying to nail down the time period in which this show takes place. I was pretty confident in thinking this was set in the early to mid nineties, with the prevalence of CRT televisions, Bruce's bulky remote control, and Liza's audio cassette player. What threw me was the use of earbud headphones at the end of the episode. I know such things may have existed, but certainly weren't common or popular until the arrival of the iPod in 2001. Does anyone have any theories when this story takes place?

It is jarring at times, especially when character's clothing styles don't match their language. A lot of the cars seem older at times, but then they have newer models occasionally. I think the show is just going for a nondescript time so it can keep some of the post-40s mafia-vs-police themes going. Of course, it could just be a quick way to never worry about continuity checks rather than just committing to setting it at some point in the past.

Man, I hate i when someone is right and I am so wrong... but right you are sir. This does not make the spell work though. Maybe all this hate is because I have been a fan of Batman for as long as I can remember and this TV show is like a taint on the legacy. I know there have been worse incarnations, but by the gods, it just seems that everything here is out of place.

@ Mike Hoffman
I have been on this site for years and have been reading your stuff on Gotham, but this is my 1st comment. Got to say, I like your writing style, even when I don't agree.

Is this series in the same universe as Arrow and Flash? I certainly hope not, it's pretty uninteresting so far.

ExtraDebit:
Is this series in the same universe as Arrow and Flash? I certainly hope not, it's pretty uninteresting so far.

I'd wager no since it's on a different network.

I agree with the article... I mostly enjoyed this one, apart from the ongoing "young Bruce Wayne is connected to every single thing" lazy writing.

Mike Hoffman:
And Jim Gordon, buddy, maybe don't shoot the hose that is filled with Viper. You don't know if that stuff is flammable or how it disperses.

Seems a little bit unfair to criticise bad tv logic by reference to other bad tv logic... Its not that easy to make a tank of gas explode by shooting it (theres generally no air in the tank to react with initially, and a bullet doesnt make a whole lot of a spark especially on a hose pipe like iirc this case). Dispersal is a good point though, having the venom in the air was the first thing I thought of in that scene too.

Thunderous Cacophony:
[...]
No long moping montages or Marilyn Manson
[...]
no fish

To be fair, these are actually kind of close. We have had a scene of Bruce listening to metal, and one point with Penguin ordering tuna from a food van at the end of a scene. Still a lot more wrong than right so far, though.

About now, I just wish they could take Fish Mooney, Harvey Bullock and Cobblepot and put them in a good show.
I really want to like this, but I find myself just getting annoyed.

Yeah.. this didn't save it, me and my GF have decided to axe the show from our TV roster, if you can call it that. The introduction of viper was of to a good start but finished lamely. I can't help but notice how weak the characters are, bullock being the exception, but combined with the ad dialogue, makes the show insufferable some times. This is definitely an improvement from last week, but not enough for me. I had hoped for an introduction to a consistent villain, someone besides the crime bosses that were going to introduce super crime to the series, well before Batman's existence.

 

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