Stop. Hammer Time

Stop. Hammer Time

In which Bob nails down the various Marvel characters deemed worthy to wield Mjolnir.

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Oof. That last event with Jane Foster. Were I in her shoes, I probably would've been just LIL bit pissed off at Odin...

I really have to say, after diving into Marvel history and trivia more and more,
I am grateful for the streamlined versions of the MCU. As Bob likes to point out, comics are weird.
I fully understand people who regard marvel history as something important, but the fact that the characters are changed a little, get their own story which is a bit
more straight, puh, best choice Marvel could have made.
Stay true to the spirit of the characters, but leave a lot of the strange baggage.

Cap will wield Mjolnir at some point I think. And having Jane Foster use it at some point could be fun, too.

I never realised how often they made not-Mjolnirs for people to wield after they gave up the mantle of Thor; there must be a workshop somewhere in Asgard cranking the things out. And while I can see movie Jane Foster maybe picking up the hammer for one decisive moment during a climactic fight scene, I can't see her doing the gig full-time.

I'm all for Natalie Portman running around fighting evil in Asgardian armor, but I'm not going to see that day (and will have to settle for Your Highness. People love Beta Ray Bill, and I expect to see him in some capacity, just not with Mjolnir ver 1.2. Marvel more likely to follow the Erik Masterson route. Thor/Chris Hemsworth fulfills a certain demand for the MCU that Bill just wouldn't satisfy, but another human actor might.

Throg might get the kind of Easter egg reference that the Troll doll in Guardians was: as in "It's a reference, but only if you're deliberately treating it as one."

Given how Black Widow reacted when they asked her to try lifting it in the party scene, I'm thinking she's going to be the one to lift it during the climax of Age of Ultron.

Sylocat:
Given how Black Widow reacted when they asked her to try lifting it in the party scene, I'm thinking she's going to be the one to lift it during the climax of Age of Ultron.

It does sound like it, but wouldn't that business with "Red in the Ledger" have to be addressed?

I've wanted to see Beta Ray Bill in a Thor movie since the second film, where it was less tenuous that Asgardian magic was often really advanced science. Also, c'mon, who doesn't want to see how cool that horse-skull face of his would look in live action

Well, I'd say that The Hulk being unable to lift the hammer is sort of pushing it, though I guess they did power down all the Avengers to an extent. In various versions The Hulk, especially when mad, has indeed picked up the hammer, he's occasionally had trouble (gotten resistance) only to get madder, and stronger, and then pick it up. In one cartoon battle pitting them against each other The Hulk even started beating Thor with his own hammer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has been able to move it before in the comics. Of course with The Hulk a lot depends on rage, but as a general rule he is actually "the strongest there is" when he tops out, oftentimes having battled multiple very powerful characters simultaneously during his rampages, without being successfully stopped (at least not by them).

" the cherry on the Sunday"
First page... Bob, 'Sunday' is the spelling for a day of the week, 'Sundae', what you were looking for, is the ice creamy treat.

Thunderous Cacophony:
I never realised how often they made not-Mjolnirs for people to wield after they gave up the mantle of Thor; there must be a workshop somewhere in Asgard cranking the things out. And while I can see movie Jane Foster maybe picking up the hammer for one decisive moment during a climactic fight scene, I can't see her doing the gig full-time.

I think Fear Itself had seven Anti Mjolnirs. Only people who were evil enough could wield them (or something to that effect) but yeah Mjolnir and its powers get handed out like candy.

Also I don't know how you missed this one Bob but Storm (AKA The most badass chick Marvel has) has also wielded Mjolnir (also Rogue but that was a What If? story). I know we won't see the X-men in the MCU anytime soon (thankfully) but I think its worth pointing out.

Also for best Thor writer, Jason Aaron. No seriously if you are a Thor fan and your are not reading his God of Thunder series you are doing yourself a huge disservice..

Sylocat:
Given how Black Widow reacted when they asked her to try lifting it in the party scene, I'm thinking she's going to be the one to lift it during the climax of Age of Ultron.

It doesn't seem likely unless she had some kind of gimmick, The Black Widow by definition has a dark side, and they even point out in the movies she's a spy and assassin, and one who is deceptive enough to briefly play "The God Of Lies" (though I get the impression he also got to her a little). She's not the straightforward paragon Cap is. Either her or Nick Fury lifting it would be really silly.

They haven't gotten into Natasha's specific background in this universe, but she's a piece of work in the comics and one of the gimmicks is that she's never entirely trustworthy though she usually comes back to the good side. She actually started out as a villain even. The "Ultimate" version is even worse where her name "Black Widow" comes from
her dead husbands.

While she might not be the all time lowest on my list of "heroes likely to lift Mjolnir" she'd be close to the bottom along with certain other more "gritty" characters like Nick Fury, or The Punisher.

Of course what standards it uses is debatable as well. I believe both "The Leader" (hulk villain) and "Magneto" (X-men villain) have been able to manipulate it with various powers during crossovers. I'm not sure if they ever tried by hand, or if that counts as lifting it. If one argues that it does then MAYBE Black Widow or Nick Fury could qualify in terms of "wanting what's best for the world", since at the end of the day both Magneto and The Leader are idealists out to make the world a better place in their own opinion. Sure Magneto waffles back and forth with being a genocidal maniac, and The Leader's ideas of improvement have involved things like "the world would be better if everyone was a gamma irradiated mutant" but they at least have good (if totally warped) intentions. Of course by that standard one might also be able to apply the standards to anyone, including guys like Hitler... some MAX/Adult imprint where say Hitler finds and lifts the hammer somehow pre-Donald blake due to a timeline change and Cap has to fight him again with the powers of Thor (a very Aryan ideal of a Germanic god to boot to) it could be really disturbing and raise all kinds of questions. Not something that we'd ever see in one of the mainstream titles though. Hitler basically being a maniac like Magneto or The Leader (idealistic intensions for the world, [email protected] up ideas on the specifics) so if they qualified he probably would too.... (and before people go off about how evil Hitler <who has appeared as Hate Monger in the "present"> is, I think he's a lightweight in fictional marvel standards guys like Thanos or Doctor Doom make him seem like the little sunshine girl despite him being a big deal before their time.... though I doubt many comics would have the guts today to use him as a bad guy directly).

Thunderous Cacophony:
I never realised how often they made not-Mjolnirs for people to wield after they gave up the mantle of Thor; there must be a workshop somewhere in Asgard cranking the things out. And while I can see movie Jane Foster maybe picking up the hammer for one decisive moment during a climactic fight scene, I can't see her doing the gig full-time.

In Asgard, realm of the gods, probably not. There is in the realm of the Dwarves, whose name I think is Svartelfheim. It's kind of tricky to keep track of the various realms whose names end with -heim.

Therumancer:
Well, I'd say that The Hulk being unable to lift the hammer is sort of pushing it, though I guess they did power down all the Avengers to an extent. In various versions The Hulk, especially when mad, has indeed picked up the hammer, he's occasionally had trouble (gotten resistance) only to get madder, and stronger, and then pick it up. In one cartoon battle pitting them against each other The Hulk even started beating Thor with his own hammer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has been able to move it before in the comics. Of course with The Hulk a lot depends on rage, but as a general rule he is actually "the strongest there is" when he tops out, oftentimes having battled multiple very powerful characters simultaneously during his rampages, without being successfully stopped (at least not by them).

That was the Ultimate Universe, doesn't count.

bigfatcarp93:

Therumancer:
Well, I'd say that The Hulk being unable to lift the hammer is sort of pushing it, though I guess they did power down all the Avengers to an extent. In various versions The Hulk, especially when mad, has indeed picked up the hammer, he's occasionally had trouble (gotten resistance) only to get madder, and stronger, and then pick it up. In one cartoon battle pitting them against each other The Hulk even started beating Thor with his own hammer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has been able to move it before in the comics. Of course with The Hulk a lot depends on rage, but as a general rule he is actually "the strongest there is" when he tops out, oftentimes having battled multiple very powerful characters simultaneously during his rampages, without being successfully stopped (at least not by them).

That was the Ultimate Universe, doesn't count.

Well actually the Cartoon version was Hulk Vs. Thor (part of a Hulk Vs. set) if I remember, the nature of the material is why I specified. That said while I have a great knowledge of comics I cannot place a point where Hulk has picked up the hammer in the mainstream universe, but I am pretty sure it has happened none the less. At some point well after this discussion I will probably find it and have a "durr" moment.

If your talking about Hulk's rage factor, that's pure canon. In fact it was famously exploited during "Secret Wars" when the bad guys pretty much dropped a mountain on the good guys. You had the entire team of good guys struggling to hold it up, until they came up with the idea of getting Hulk mad by insulting him, and eventually they had him holding up the entire mountain all by himself (basically giving him a strength in excess of all other heroes combined) before Reed modified Iron Man's repulsors (Rhodey was Iron Man at the time I believe) and blew a hole through the mountain so the heroes could escape. The entire point of that bit was to show just how ridiculously strong he was. Also canon Hulk HAS gone toe to toe with numerous heavy hitting heroes simultaneously during his rampages. As odd as it sounds one of the few characters that has actually managed to go toe to toe with him when he was in full on ramage mode is The Thing, but that invariably ends with The Thing being about to lose before something breaks up the fight, and leaving it unresolved. One of the reasons why I think people underestimate The Thing and I occasionally bring him up when people make lists of "strongest characters" and such, I actually think The Thing has done better, more consistently, against The Hulk one on one than pretty much any other hero, with the exception of Wolverine (who was originally created to fight The Hulk in one of his comics, and the two have had some epic throw downs over the years. Hulk Vs. Wolverine has
a tendency to get as brutal as Wolverine Vs. Sabertooth).

As far as The Leader and Magneto doing stuff to the hammer, I'm actually thinking earlier than The Ultimate Universe when I remember bits like that happening. Of course all my ranting speculation aside, it does depend on writers (consistency is not a big part of comics) and it could be argued that "picking up the hammer" only counts if you do it by hand, while it's on the ground so manipulating it with powers doesn't count, such as if you grab Thor's hammer and throw it back at him in mid-flight with a super power after he throws it at you. I honestly don't think a comic writer actually sat there and went "you know, I think despite wanting to irradiate the plant, The Leader has good intentions so thus he can pick up the hammer with his stuff". I seem to remember vaguely he carried it away in a force field at one point for research or something (which didn't last long).

"Mangog proves to be physically unstoppable, and is usually only defeated by exploiting Mangog's dependence on psychic energies (such as hatred, fear, or feelings of devotion) felt by other sentient beings to sustain itself. Without such a source, Mangog shrinks to near nothingness."

That seems... like a REALLY lame copout! He *exists* of the hate of a billion (the text says billion at first, but later a billion TIMES a billion btw) beings. Since he already exists, there should be exactly zero reason for him to dissolve if there isn't any hate to feed on nearby.

I can accept that he expends hatred energy when he fights or heals, or even a little over time.
But SO much hatred energy should not simply vanish that easily as soon as the plot demands it! :\

Superman isn't worthy. Thor can allow ANYONE to use Mjolnir and gain his power if he wants. Someone who is worthy can use the hammer and gain his powerful REGARDLESS of what Thor thinks...

Thor allowed Superman to wield it once. Later when Superman tried, it would not budge.

Therumancer:
Well, I'd say that The Hulk being unable to lift the hammer is sort of pushing it, though I guess they did power down all the Avengers to an extent. In various versions The Hulk, especially when mad, has indeed picked up the hammer, he's occasionally had trouble (gotten resistance) only to get madder, and stronger, and then pick it up. In one cartoon battle pitting them against each other The Hulk even started beating Thor with his own hammer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has been able to move it before in the comics.

You are wrong.

Lifting Mjolnir has NOTHING to do with strength. The only Hulk to wield it was Red Hulk, by using a loop hole (they were in space) and even THAT makes zero sense, but it was Loeb so you just have to roll your eyes and accept his lunacy.

Ugh... Female Thor can be nice, but please, not Natalie Portman. She would just bring along all her terrible human side characters, it would be soooo annoying.

Ruisu:
Ugh... Female Thor can be nice, but please, not Natalie Portman. She would just bring along all her terrible human side characters, it would be soooo annoying.

Plus she's insanely tiny. It would look really weird to have a "Thor" smaller than the Black Widow. I respect the hell out of Portman, but there are limits to my suspension of disbelief.

Wasn't there an ambulance driver who handed Mjolnir to Thor? I think I read that somewhere, and would love to read that comic

This just reminds me that during the first Thor movie I totally thought a human (probably Jane) was going to pick up Thor's hammer at some point and kick ass with it, thus proving some sort of point to help Thor not be an asshole any more. I was kind of disappointed when that didn't happen.

The Deadpool:

Therumancer:
Well, I'd say that The Hulk being unable to lift the hammer is sort of pushing it, though I guess they did power down all the Avengers to an extent. In various versions The Hulk, especially when mad, has indeed picked up the hammer, he's occasionally had trouble (gotten resistance) only to get madder, and stronger, and then pick it up. In one cartoon battle pitting them against each other The Hulk even started beating Thor with his own hammer. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has been able to move it before in the comics.

You are wrong.

Lifting Mjolnir has NOTHING to do with strength. The only Hulk to wield it was Red Hulk, by using a loop hole (they were in space) and even THAT makes zero sense, but it was Loeb so you just have to roll your eyes and accept his lunacy.

Quite right, doesn't matter how strong you are. Even if you can lift the planet that the hammer is on, you still wouldn't be able to pick up the hammer. Hulk has and can never do it. The time you're talking about is in Ultimates because the hammer in that universe isn't the same hammer, no enchantment and not even made of the same thing.

VoidWanderer:
Wasn't there an ambulance driver who handed Mjolnir to Thor? I think I read that somewhere, and would love to read that comic

I remember that as well. Would be a nice scene, but they will go with Cap.

Given Thor's a god, they could probably get away with hand wave to justify a new actor
"oh no Loki cursed Thor to share the body with that puny mortal, but wait what's this when he wields Mjolnir he gains his back his powers! but he still looks like that new guy... we must find a way to split the two "

and then at the end of the movie

"Behold Loki's curse is undone!"
"But Thor's face is still not back the way it was"
"Hath no fear friends, I like this new look, It hath grown on me now let's all go and curse Loki to be a female horse for his treachery"

or something like that.

Thunderous Cacophony:
I never realised how often they made not-Mjolnirs for people to wield after they gave up the mantle of Thor; there must be a workshop somewhere in Asgard cranking the things out.

Yeah, they actually have a whole consolation prize department.

Sylocat:
Given how Black Widow reacted when they asked her to try lifting it in the party scene, I'm thinking she's going to be the one to lift it during the climax of Age of Ultron.

That would be horribly inconsistent.

bigfatcarp93:

That was the Ultimate Universe, doesn't count.

The Marvel movies share plenty with the Ultimate comics. Besides, if a "What If?" comic can make the list....

Grace_Omega:
This just reminds me that during the first Thor movie I totally thought a human (probably Jane) was going to pick up Thor's hammer at some point and kick ass with it, thus proving some sort of point to help Thor not be an asshole any more. I was kind of disappointed when that didn't happen.

After the scene where he tries to lift Mjolnir and fails, I was kind of hoping that would happen.

There's actually a new Thunderstrike. His son got the Mace, it was a pretty sweet story. He had some interactions with other younger heros, Amadeus Cho, Powerman (number 2) etc.

Thordis? Yuck. I wasn't big on just calling the new female Thor 'Thor' but that's better than Thorids.

Bronys have it right, a female wielding the hammer should be named Mjolna :D

The Deadpool:
Superman isn't worthy. Thor can allow ANYONE to use Mjolnir and gain his power if he wants. Someone who is worthy can use the hammer and gain his powerful REGARDLESS of what Thor thinks...

Thor allowed Superman to wield it once. Later when Superman tried, it would not budge.

From I remember of the rule only those deemed worthy by the spell Odin placed on the hammer can hold Thor's hammer for a short time. Both Captain America and Superman have lifted the hammer so they are/were worthy.

But with so many retcons and revamps done to the Marvel Universe and the DCU it's hard to tell if that rule even still applies.

Cyberstrike:

The Deadpool:
Superman isn't worthy. Thor can allow ANYONE to use Mjolnir and gain his power if he wants. Someone who is worthy can use the hammer and gain his powerful REGARDLESS of what Thor thinks...

Thor allowed Superman to wield it once. Later when Superman tried, it would not budge.

From I remember of the rule only those deemed worthy by the spell Odin placed on the hammer can hold Thor's hammer for a short time. Both Captain America and Superman have lifted the hammer so they are/were worthy.

But with so many retcons and revamps done to the Marvel Universe and the DCU it's hard to tell if that rule even still applies.

As of right now, not even Thor or Odin are Worthy. The enchantment has outgrown even Odin himself.

However, at the time in which Superman wielded Mjolnir (which was an alternate, now defunct reality), Thor had the ability to allow ANYONE, worthy or not, to use Mjolnir and gain his power should the time call for it. That is, AS STATED IN THE EXACT SAME STORY AND ISSUE, the only reason Superman was able to wield it.

Superman was never shown to be worthy.

So hey, speaking of Thor, has the new comic come out yet with female Thor? If so, thoughts? No spoilers please, but I am curious how it's holding up given all the hype.

 

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