Doctor Who: The Mad Man In A Blue Box Returns

Doctor Who: The Mad Man In A Blue Box Returns

Doctor Who Season 8 draws to a close and Peter Capaldi cements his legacy as a truly spectacular Time Lord.

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My only real issue with this episode is... Why do they need dead bodies?

Tthe traditional reason that a Cyberman is a cyberized person is because they aren't strictly an AI, cyborgs not robots. In other words, they utilize the mind of the individual in their process, thus they need a human body.

However, this plot quite clearly defines that they are 100% digitizing human personalities to be dumped into Cybermen bodies, so why bother using human bodies at all? What possible use could there be for leaving a human skeleton at the core? Just build your bodies and upload a mind.

I am just going to copy-pasta myself from the unoffical thread. And likely save a lot of people there from doing the same thing:

Awful. Absolutely fucking awful. The only thing I liked about that episode was the fact that I don't have to watch Clara and Captain fucking boring again. Hoo bloody ray. I mean I wasn't expecting gold because Moffat, but come on, when your audience is guessing that Danny is going to come back as a cyberman, overcome it with love and save the day, you've got problems pal.

Where do I start?

-Cyberman were naff, they didn't even kill anyone. They just doddered around, got out"logiced" by fridge logic, which they even aknowledged and still doddered about till Cyber-Danny shot them. Then they blew themselves up a crappy display of disregard for...any narrative structure, consistancy or quality control. They even screwed up the narrative of the episode they were in. Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.

-Where the buggery did the Cyberbodies come from? "Nanomachines" would've worked fine, but no, it wasn't that. And if this new technology can create a Cyberbody, why bother with the dead, why not just take over everyone? Why the need for the personality in the Nethersphere at all? They don't need the personality, they need the brain. Which would've obviously been rotting but never bloody mind, "that's getting in the way of my concept which I have in no way fleshed out"; says Mr Moffat. But then, this whole "digital" thing eschews the need for either, as they've clearly surpssed the need for bodies or brains.

Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.

-The scene where Danny and Clara were giving The Doctor shit and the show was on their side when he was telling them NOT to activate the bloody Emotional Inhibiter. Instead of trying to reason with them after they'd abandoned reason, logic, common sense, having encountered The Cybermen before, especially fucking Clara, what he should've said was: "E fuckin nuff, you need to learn to shut your cave, pick up any weapon you can find and twat the buggery out of him!"

Of course this is the Clara show so it did fuck all when they did activate it.

-Emotional Inhibiter. Yeah. Fuck off. Everyone knows what it does by now, but hey screw that! They could've actually done something with this, given The Master said about her putting Clara with the Doctor in order to fuck him up (yeah she basically said that, meta, right?), a moment of tragic folly, The Doctor gives into Clara, showcasing The Masters point, Clara switches it on, Danny snaps her neck. (And there was much rejoycing), The Doctor languishes in The Master plot actually coming to fruition, feels be had. Then y'know, The Doctor can actually solve the problem with wit, cunning and intelligence, rather than the bollocks we got.

-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!

-Missy, I was all up for Missy, she seems a bit quirky but she turns into a cartoon character in this episode, like that friend that's all "Oh I'm soo random!" "Look how EEEEVIL AND BANANAS I AM!". Simmons' Master was a bit zany, but at least he was still "grounded". Moreover, her wanting to be "friends" makes no sense. The Rani would've been much better for this role (and perhaps she was going to be originally, we will never know).

-The Brigadier. Yeah....kinda really didn't like him popping up. I liked the Brigadier, but it's a naff cameo for people who know who he is, that sort of craps on the character, and a pointless attempt at a tear-jerker for people who don't. Also, why did he stick around at all?

To save The Doctors soul? The Doctors killed people before, lots of people, he wiped two civilizations off the face of the map. Tennent killed plenty of people with his own hands. Sure, it's a bit different with The Master but still, so what if The Doctor kills him? When you've murdered an entire planet, one villian isn't going to tip your afterlife scales.

-The kid. Yeah, bring the kid back for feel good fun and bonus feels points! Get out. On the plus side, I was expecting Danny to come back again, so that's kind of a bonus.

+Nick Frost as Santa. Huzzah!

Fairly solid finale with a couple of hiccups. I thought the pacing in the UNIT plane was too brisk, as a lot of plot is just dumped onto the viewer. But otherwise, it is definitely a satisfying finale thematically and emotionally. Probably the most solidly conclusive wrap up I have seen from revived Doctor Who. CyberBrig was a potentially offensive cameo, but I think its handling was ultimately good taste, and a cute send up to a classic character.

I think the biggest surprise was how the story was actually rather straightforward. In addition to the story peeling back to be less about Missy and the Cybermen and more about the self-inflection on the Doctor's part, and what he means to his companions. I liked the subtle bait and switch

This whole season was just so disappointing. Capaldi is a good actor, but his Doctor is the opposite of everything I loved about the show when I started watching. He's just another sad, grumpy guy. I loved how positive and happy and excited Eccleston and Tennant could be. They loved seeing new things and meeting new people. I really don't buy that Twelve actually enjoys anything about travel since he doesn't like anyone besides Clara.

The finale was better than everything else this season, but there was practically no build up. An occasional thirty second reminder that Missy exists is not development. It's hard to really care that Missy is The Master because there is almost no connection to Jon Simms master. We didn't see her regenerate. They barely even talked about it. She's just suddenly there and being "bananas". She could have been any crazy Doctor Who villain and it wouldn't have changed anything.

EDIT: And I just now remembered that Missy "died" at the end of this episode. It was so dumb. Not only was there nothing to it (Just there, then not) to make the scene memorable like Jon Simms death in The Last of the Time Lords, it's completely toothless because it's already a foregone conclusion that she's not actually dead. So much blah. Good performance! Bad writing.

I find the entire episode to be rather toothless. The Doctor did nothing for the entire episode and in the end the situation virtually resolved itself. The acting was quite good and I did enjoy the interactions Missy/The Master had with people. At the end though, the entire thing felt like it was filler, placed in to just add another episode count with the only thing happening being the very end where The Doctor left Clara behind. It was not worthy of a finale as I'd rate Eccleston's, Tennant's and even Smith's (whose finales I didn't terribly like on the whole) were far better.

So I'm guessing they rescue Danny next episode? 'cause there's still the whole "time traveling great grandma" thing and all.

Almost missed the bit at the end. I was just about to turn it off when I heard the knocking.

I'm kind of amazed they killed off 'bow tie UNIT' girl.

elvor0:
Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.

The way it seemed to be explained, only the cybermen in the church were carrying the nano-cloud, ready to disperse, that's why there were just enough to cover every major city.

Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.

If they delete them willingly, you don't end up with the problem of previous converts, where a strong will can resist the deletion. If it's voluntary, there's no resistance.

-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!

I saw that coming a mile away, and groaned. But at least it was canon. It's not the first time strong emotions like love or duty have overriden Cyberman control.

And while it's a little sad that Jenna Coleman's Clara (who was exceptionally well-developed this season) won't be a part of it, we'll soon have another Doctor who better reflects this new era in the Doctor's life.

So what was Santa talking about then?

Tanis:
I'm kind of amazed they killed off 'bow tie UNIT' girl.

When I saw Kate's shoes, I assumed they were River's shoes from the black archive, and that she would survive due to techobabble powers. But then they turned out to just be a red herring.

jabrwock:

elvor0:
Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.

The way it seemed to be explained, only the cybermen in the church were carrying the nano-cloud, ready to disperse, that's why there were just enough to cover every major city.

Well I would go with that, but that just seems odd. If you have the technology to be able to replicate your army, why would they not all be equiped with this technology? You blow one up and so many more rise from your dead.

That and I seem to remember the Doctor saying on the Plane that the particles of Cyberman were able to replicate themselves. Feel free to correct me there though, as I can't access iplayer due to living elsewhere and was only able to watch it on TV.

jabrwock:

Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.

If they delete them willingly, you don't end up with the problem of previous converts, where a strong will can resist the deletion. If it's voluntary, there's no resistance.

This is true, however, given that they're not flat converting living bodies or even real people but rather using digitized versions of dead people, I wouldn't see that as an issue, if something is digitized you can alter it to your hearts content, because they're not really them.

They were clearly capable of influencing how they felt and which memories they remembered last episode, plus the fact that the technology to delete their emotions in the first place exists shows that it's perfectly doable and I don't see why they needed co-oporation. If they're given the option and they /don't/ do it, what happens then? Danny can't be the only person in there who didn't delete his emotions.

jabrwock:

-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!

I saw that coming a mile away, and groaned. But at least it was canon. It's not the first time strong emotions like love or duty have overriden Cyberman control.

Which I don't like either >< The only place I felt it was okay was with Craig(Or whatever he was called) and Stormageddon, due to being mid conversion.

However, I'd say it has more precident to work before due to them using living people. It feels wrong here because of the afmorementioned digital issue.

Mcoffey:

EDIT: And I just now remembered that Missy "died" at the end of this episode. It was so dumb. Not only was there nothing to it (Just there, then not) to make the scene memorable like Jon Simms death in The Last of the Time Lords, it's completely toothless because it's already a foregone conclusion that she's not actually dead. So much blah. Good performance! Bad writing.

Not only is it a foregone conclusion, Moffat actually confirmed that all she was missing was saying "You haven't seen the last of me!". Which is a shame, because as much as I like The Master, Simm's Master had a fantastic end to the character. It was wrapped up very, very nicely.

I didn't like the change back to procedural episodes this season. The Horror episodes didn't reach the level of The Library, or any of the Weeping Angles episodes. They tried, but they just couldn't get there. Tenant was better at the Procedural stories, and Matt was better at the Serialized version of the Doctor.

I was expecting Capaldi to go into a fairly serialized story about finding the Time Lords. That was only hinted at in the end.

There was a math equation he was working in at the beginning of the series that he couldn't finish. I was expecting Pink to be the one to help him finish it, and make the Doctor eat his own arrogance in regards to Pink being a soldier so they could get on with the Galifry plot. Why else emphasis that Pink was a math teacher. Instead we get a stereo type soldier with self sacrifice to beat over The Doctors head, and the audience.

If they were going to give Missy the role they did then they needed to foreshadow it in the Monster Under The Bed episode. We should have seen Missy as a child, and actually had the child friendship with The Doctor. They could easily have made part of Missy's madness the fault of Clara grabbing the leg.

Then there were the memories he stashed into his watch that he then handed off to some random stranger, and never revisited that point.

All those could have, or should have been hints at a deeper plot that didn't go anywhere. Just going "dark" without progressing any real plot is pointless.

elvor0:
Well I would go with that, but that just seems odd. If you have the technology to be able to replicate your army, why would they not all be equiped with this technology? You blow one up and so many more rise from your dead.

That and I seem to remember the Doctor saying on the Plane that the particles of Cyberman were able to replicate themselves. Feel free to correct me there though, as I can't access iplayer due to living elsewhere and was only able to watch it on TV.

There was some line about only the rich ones in the temple being taught this new ability I think.

This is true, however, given that they're not flat converting living bodies or even real people but rather using digitized versions of dead people, I wouldn't see that as an issue, if something is digitized you can alter it to your hearts content, because they're not really them.

Limitation of the technology perhaps? Maybe it's easier to get them to do it themselves than try to brute force it.

As to why only convert the dead, that was covered too. Missy wanted an army for the Doctor. If she converted the living, he'd work his ass off to save them. But this lot is already dead. So there's a chance he might justify to himself that they're ok to use. At least that's under the Master's logic.

Here's my main issue with the plot:

Cybermen don't work like that. Never have.

To make a Cyberman, you rip the brain out of a LIVING body, then put the brain into the cyber body. The only exception is in cases of emergency when they need to mass convert very quickly, but it never comes out right anyway.

I've had this issue with Moffat's idea of Cybermen ever since all the way back in Series 5 when that cyber head opened up and there was a skull inside. I thought Moffat was a fan of the show since childhood. How could he mess up such an iconic enemy as the Cybermen? Where did this magic cyber rain that mysteriously wraps corpses in metal and brings them back to life BS come from?

On another issue, I take exception to Moffat's notion of how the Master would behave if he became a woman. Really, Moffat? You think that once the Master became a woman, she'd dive at the Doctor to shove her tongue down his throat, repeatedly call him "honey", tell people he's her "boyfriend", talk about how the Doctor has her hearts, and just basically fawn all over him like a lovesick puppy? That's what the Master becoming human means to you, Moffat?

No. Just no. Stick to writing the Doctor and the Master as male. You obviously can't write women.

On the plus side, Danny and his judgmental BS are finally dead and gone. I started off liking him, but he just got worse and worse. Still, he did manage to have some moments of redemption, like when he sacrificed his chance to get back with Clara to send the boy back. Okay, there is the issue of Danny killing a child in the first place, but...whatever. He made it right and that's better than nothing.

The winner of this whole finale, though, is Twelve. I've been fond of him all series, even if I sometimes wondered what was going on in his head, but this finale finally wrapped up all the weird threads of his personality and weaved them into a cohesive whole that Capaldi performed magnificently.

kailus13:
So I'm guessing they rescue Danny next episode? 'cause there's still the whole "time traveling great grandma" thing and all.

Almost missed the bit at the end. I was just about to turn it off when I heard the knocking.

The theory 'round the internet is that the Orson Pink guy is already in the making by way of Clara being pregnant.

I'm not sure what I feel about the theory that Clara's already pregnant, but...it's a theory. I personally figure that the timeline just glossed over that bit once it no longer was going to happen, but it's not an illogical theory.

The whole afterlife angle doesn't work at all for me. I just let it flow over me and not think too much about it. I too was very bothered by the murder of bow tie girl.

They'll probably just bring Danny and Osgood back in the Christmas special. "What do you want for Christmas," indeed.

The episode had potential and good ideas... but I felt it was really clunky in execution. Lots of people standing around talking, even when it doesn't make much sense, like at the beginning, with Missy and the Doctor talking while the Cybermen and UNIT show up, or at the end, again, just standing in the graveyard talking, no threats, no action, no interesting shots... Just people in costume awkwardly advancing the plot.

And the offing of Osgood felt very callous. Its not the first time a fell-good secondary character has been killed, but the way they went about it left a really bad taste in my mouth, and it didn't mesh at all with the rest of the episode.

This clunkyness, though, I think is endemic of the Doctor Who style, to the point that the Curse of Fatal Death parodies it, by having characters just go on with exposition in a situation that doesn't make sense.

And Cybermen have Borg nanites now? I really liked the Cyberman reveal in the previous episode (even when the trailer kind of spoiled it for me), but... I don't know, they don't feel that menacing.

I also dislike the misdirection the trailers have, twice now, done with Clara. First it was all that "you're never stepping into the TARDIS again" bit painting her as a villain, then the "Clara doesn't exist" bit. Both rather pointless.

The detail of having Jenna Coleman's credits preceded Capaldi's and it being Clara's eyes in the intro was cute though. Heck, for a moment I thought they might actually go ahead and make it so Clara is and actual Doctor regeneration (14th?) which... I would've been kind of OK with.

I enjoyed it. It was the first Moffat payoff where I wasn't left disappointed. Sure there are more than a few criticisms and nitpicks that can be leveled at it, but overall I enjoyed it which is more than can be said about the last Christmas special.

I'm noticing a lot of critical dissonance between fans and reviewers with this new season. I've seen critics rate it very highly, on par with Matt Smith and Cristopher Eccleston's first seasons, while fans while tell you it's the Clara Oswald show and a load of shite.

I definitely don't agree with the fans on this one, mainly because most of the recurring complaints I've seen come across as vapid and petty, but I also wouldn't say the series has been fantastic. I love Peter Capaldi's Doctor, and his speech at the end of the finale was the perfect capper to his main character arc. However, the finale was a bit rushed (though we've all seen worse from Doctor Who finales), and only a few episodes were what I'd really call classics: Mummy on the Orient Express, Listen, and Flatline. The rest were merely alright or kind of dodgy.

Regarding this reviews biggest complaint about why Danny wanted his emotions wiped, I agree that would be stupid if that were the only reason. The thing is, I wasn't even thinking about that during the scene, because my first thought was that he wanted to lose his emotions because he didn't want to be a walking corpse. Given all the shit Danny went through in the last episode, and the fact he was already considering deleting his emotions before being resurrected, it made sense to me that he wanted to end it all.

I also get the impression he wasn't the only one going through that; the Doctor mentioned in passing the reason the Cybermen were inactive without Missy controlling them was because they were "newborns". What I took from that is that al lot of them were like Danny and were still coming to grips with their conversion.

Danny Pink was the worst thing about this season. Thankfully, he and his creepy obsession with his girlfriend's private life blew up in the end. All he did this season was create artificial conflict for Clara, which was pointless because she had some absolutely fantastic conflict with the Doctor already.

This season overall was really uneven, and I think that came from lacking a central theme. The cracks in time or Bad Wolf were played through their respective series. But the scenes with Missy before this finale felt like afterthoughts, if they even bothered to put one in an episode.

So basically, the quality of episodes is determined by how much screentime Danny Pink has in them, and how little they have to do with the overall story. The standalones like Listen (minus the Danny shit) and Mummy on the Orient Express were the best ones.

So I'm assuming we're just going to go ahead and ignore the fact that the entire timeline collapses with Danny dead?

Cuz ya know, if he's dead how can Orson be born? And then the events of Listen don't transpire. Since those events deal with the doctor as a kid....well, talk about a problem.

Maybe now the show can go back to being "Doctor Who" and not "The Amazing Misadventures of The Ever Whiny and Self-Absorbed Clara Ozwald and her Overly-Emotional, Holier-Than-Thou Boyfriend Danny Pink".

Kingjackl:
I'm noticing a lot of critical dissonance between fans and reviewers with this new season. I've seen critics rate it very highly, on par with Matt Smith and Cristopher Eccleston's first seasons, while fans while tell you it's the Clara Oswald show and a load of shite.

Interesting point. Normally, I'd say that's because fans and reviewers come at this from different angles: Fans (rightly) judge this season against past seasons while reviewers (also rightly) try to be self-contained in their analysis (at least to a point).

For the Doctor, that works because he was so different from past seasons (raising doubt from fans) but still did unique and interesting things that deserved mention (acknowledged by reviewers). What's funny about Clara is we're getting the reverse: reviewers are comparing S.7 Clara to S.8 Clara (as a character, she's drastically improved), while (some) fans don't like Clara as she is right now.

Although I suppose part of that is comparing her to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy, so by the time you get to Clara so much has already been done.

And in fairness, critics disagree too. I actually quite liked "Kill The Moon", for example, but but Liz just tore it to pieces. Subjective nature of the beast.

The one part that hit me the deepest was the Doctors' response to CyberPink. "I have to know... I have to know!" It's hard to explain it without having the context of the moment. Basically, it's the first time since he was introduced that I've seen this Doctor have a moment of moral crisis worth mentioning. He looked really hurt and conflicted; haven't seen him open up quite like that, even to Clara.

And Missy was great... it's sad that her character's been killed off in a way you can't fix without a huge plot hole. She seemed like just the kind of crazy you'd want in a Doctor Who arch villain. A Joker to the doctor's Batman, you might say.

Final opinion? The season as a whole has allot of interesting one-off idea episodes but a weak overall plot. A good finale (yes, I think it's good) doesn't make up for a whole season of mediocrity and self-contained filler.

I hope all of this at least helps to set up the Doctor for a greater comeback next season.

Every Doctor Who finale starts out like "oh no, 17 million Daleks/Cybermen/insert random alien name here, the entire planet/solar system/galaxy is doomed" but then 45 minutes later its like "aha! I have found the I Win button that will instantly kill the entire enemy army in one go!". Its annoyingly predictable.

Also, the episode kinda lost me before the credits. "I am not Clara, I am in fact, the Doctor" "oh, so you're our worst enemy and biggest threat?" *Bang*.

I wish people would stop calling John Hurt's version the War Doctor and just call him the Soldier, or the Warrior. It seems kind of anticlimactic for a character who keeps denying he's the Doctor to be called the Doctor, War or not. Just call him the Soldier. That puts him in his own comfortable (uncomfortable) category, and we can move on.

And oh, yeah, religion makes a lot more sense being the invention of the Master as a scheme against the gullible. It puts Moffat right up there with L. Ron Hubbard betting that "Any idiot can found a religion," and Shakespeare with his "There is neither good nor evil, but thinking makes it so." How Willy the Shake missed being burned at the stake is beyond me.

Osgood was more Velma than Velma. Her I'm sorry about. Should have kept her, Moffat. Unless... that Gallifreyan hard drive was still saving new ones even as it was dumping.... Ah, a guy can dream.

Fanghawk:

Kingjackl:
I'm noticing a lot of critical dissonance between fans and reviewers with this new season. I've seen critics rate it very highly, on par with Matt Smith and Cristopher Eccleston's first seasons, while fans while tell you it's the Clara Oswald show and a load of shite.

Interesting point. Normally, I'd say that's because fans and reviewers come at this from different angles: Fans (rightly) judge this season against past seasons while reviewers (also rightly) try to be self-contained in their analysis (at least to a point).

For the Doctor, that works because he was so different from past seasons (raising doubt from fans) but still did unique and interesting things that deserved mention (acknowledged by reviewers). What's funny about Clara is we're getting the reverse: reviewers are comparing S.7 Clara to S.8 Clara (as a character, she's drastically improved), while (some) fans don't like Clara as she is right now.

Although I suppose part of that is comparing her to Rose, Martha, Donna, and Amy, so by the time you get to Clara so much has already been done.

And in fairness, critics disagree too. I actually quite liked "Kill The Moon", for example, but but Liz just tore it to pieces. Subjective nature of the beast.

There is a fascinating disconnect. Of course, Doctor Who tends to be a fairly devisive show in terms of agreeing over quality (it encompasses so many different genres and ideas). But I have found that a large portion of fans tend to like seasons that opt less for ambitious arc based storytelling and instead are more or less serialized. Example, I thought rather negatively of Season 7, finding it to be a clunky mess leading to nowhere, and have found Season 8 to be fairly solid, definitely one of the better seasons of Doctor Who. In contrast, when discussing with those who thought negatively of Season 8 (inability to connect with characters, disdain for complicated plots, etc.), I was surprised to hear that many actually thought rather well of Season 7. I'm not meaning to generalize, but I like to think that it has to do with a common appreciation for the status quo. This Season of Dr. Who has been slightly bleaker and less peppy optimism, more cold pragmatism (that I believe the season addresses rather directly). It's a shift in tone, and every shift has its fair amount of growing pains (the classic serialized nature of Doctor Who doesn't always gel with arc based storytelling. Look at Season 6.).

But all I really know is my own opinion. And I have never really been this invested in Doctor Who. Something about Capaldi and Moffat's chosen direction makes it feel... almost like a completely different show. And it's at least going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

I can see what they tried to do with this season, with Pink representing someone supposedly grieving so hard that he's not impressed by the doctor. Unfortunately he doesn't have the range for it, and the reactions of the characters to him is completely unbelievable given the military fetishism that's infected the west for the last decade and a bit. Clara was fleshed out, but written to be useless. I've found no reason to give a damn about any supporting character. Remember when you used to be introduced to a character, grow fond of them, and get anxious about their fate, all in the space of an episode? Not a single instance of that this whole season.

Don't waste Capaldi, please. Try harder next time.

gridsleep:
I wish people would stop calling John Hurt's version the War Doctor and just call him the Soldier, or the Warrior. It seems kind of anticlimactic for a character who keeps denying he's the Doctor to be called the Doctor, War or not. Just call him the Soldier. That puts him in his own comfortable (uncomfortable) category, and we can move on.

lol
The only correct name is "Nine", because that's what he is.

Firstly: He is, in fact, a Doctor, because his whole character arc was about him earning the title back by saving Gallifrey. That's why he took his place among them at the end.
Secondly: War, Warrior, and Soldier are not numbers.

But no, fanboys can't handle change and won't dare renumerate the subsequent Doctors.
...because that would be so drastic or something.
So now, somehow, the most recent incarnation from a set of thirteen is called "Twelve".

2 + 2 = 5.
Swish, guys... swish.

So, for my part, I'm not moving on and will persist in frustration and overwrought sadness until fanboys see logic. I really can't think of a better way to spend my time.

I thought it was a pretty good finale. Tied things up, I enjoyed Missie. The science was contrived and stupid, but well, it's Doctor Who. I expect that.

I loved the idea of Missy offering the Doctor an army to right all the wrongs in the universe with. Frankly, I think that if they had done that in the early or middle of the season and left the deliberation up in the air as an active part of the season, I would've enjoyed it a lot more overall.

It's like they saved all the good ideas for one speech.

This is not specifically about this episode but I have to ask... I'm still confused about which Cybermen these are.
I've been watching "Who" since Jon Pertwee's days as the Doctor. In those days the Cybermen were from the planet Mondas. This persisted in the new who series when we saw the head of one in 2005 when Eccleston's Doctor says "Hello old friend' to one in a museum case.

Then during Tennant's reign, new redesigned Cybermen were introduced originating in a parallel universe. They tried to invade this universe and were sucked back to their universe or into the 'void' (along with Rose).

So now what Cybermen do we have? They look like the parallel universe ones but why do they keep cropping up when we have our own universes versions? Any official 'word of God' on this?

jabrwock:

elvor0:
Well I would go with that, but that just seems odd. If you have the technology to be able to replicate your army, why would they not all be equiped with this technology? You blow one up and so many more rise from your dead.

That and I seem to remember the Doctor saying on the Plane that the particles of Cyberman were able to replicate themselves. Feel free to correct me there though, as I can't access iplayer due to living elsewhere and was only able to watch it on TV.

There was some line about only the rich ones in the temple being taught this new ability I think.

Ah okay, fair enough.

jabrwock:

elvor0:
This is true, however, given that they're not flat converting living bodies or even real people but rather using digitized versions of dead people, I wouldn't see that as an issue, if something is digitized you can alter it to your hearts content, because they're not really them.

Limitation of the technology perhaps? Maybe it's easier to get them to do it themselves than try to brute force it.

As to why only convert the dead, that was covered too. Missy wanted an army for the Doctor. If she converted the living, he'd work his ass off to save them. But this lot is already dead. So there's a chance he might justify to himself that they're ok to use. At least that's under the Master's logic.

Ehh, not entirely sold on that first point. Seems like a bizzare limitation when you can digitize the souls of the dead, edit and effect them anyway.

Well I don't really like it, but I suppose that works. Just I was kind of disapointed that the Cybermen would let themselves be controlled at all and it wasn't some double bluff on their part, nor do I feel The Master doing it for that reason made any sense in terms of her character.

Fireprufe15:
So I'm assuming we're just going to go ahead and ignore the fact that the entire timeline collapses with Danny dead?

Cuz ya know, if he's dead how can Orson be born? And then the events of Listen don't transpire. Since those events deal with the doctor as a kid....well, talk about a problem.

As happy(or unhappy) as I am to jump on any writing inconsistancies, that does /appear/ to be covered, the going theory is that that Clara is pregnant and that she did want to tell the Doctor in the cafe, but didn't. It may not be overtly mentioned, but yeah I'm gonna run with that, it's an acceptable "fill in the blank" moment.

Not even Capaldi could bring this one back. Absolutely dire.

Gomez as a villain was superb. Or would have been, if she wasn't yet another rehash of an established bad guy.

Originality is a dirty word.

I've was Dr.Who fan for well over 20 years. Started watching back when Tom Baker was the Doctor. After this last episode I have decided to quit.

I thought nothing could be dumber than the moon being a dragon egg and germs turning into giant spiders. I was wrong.

Now I'm wondering if Moffat had a stroke or something because as of this season these stories are no longer fit blow my nose into. It's as depressing as seeing Idris Elba in "Pacific Rim" - Capaldi is far too good to be performing this drek and it's embarrassing to see such a good actor go to waste. Although even that is not as embarrassing as seeing a series that made such an incredible comeback over the last decade suddenly nose-dive into such unbelievable stupidity.

 

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