Gotham's "The Mask" Isn't Ssssssmokin'

Gotham's "The Mask" Isn't Ssssssmokin'

Another Batman villain makes a low-impact entrance on the directionless Gotham.

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I've been reading these articles each week so far, and it seems to always be the case that the episodes you didn't like are the ones I enjoyed, and the episodes you praise are the ones I felt were pretty lackluster.

I'm not sure what that says about me, the articles, or the show itself. But I imagine something can be extrapolated from that.

Not sure what you think is wrong with teaching a kid how to fight. Alfred's a model father in that scene. Pacifism is a fucking aberration, just plain harmful to the kids indoctrinated with it. Teaching kids that absorbing a beating and telling whoever constitutes the `authorities` at a given stage in their lives is "the high road, morally" is practically abuse.

I haven't been following this show consistently. Batman isn't my cup of tea in the first place, but I think what I've seen so far is pretty watchable. It's better than the budget X-men superhero shit we've been getting for years-- Alphas and its ilk.

Lvl 64 Klutz:
I've been reading these articles each week so far, and it seems to always be the case that the episodes you didn't like are the ones I enjoyed, and the episodes you praise are the ones I felt were pretty lackluster.

I'm not sure what that says about me, the articles, or the show itself. But I imagine something can be extrapolated from that.

That's actually pretty funny. I guess we just look at/for different things in our shows. But thanks for reading each week!

Candidus:
Not sure what you think is wrong with teaching a kid how to fight. Alfred's a model father in that scene. Pacifism is a fucking aberration, just plain harmful to the kids indoctrinated with it. Teaching kids that absorbing a beating and telling whoever constitutes the `authorities` at a given stage in their lives is "the high road, morally" is practically abuse.

The dude gave the kid a quick substitute for brass knuckles and had him go to another kid's home to bust his face open. Learning some self-defense is one thing, but that's not it. Sure, an argument can be made for using this to prevent future occurrences, but "Remember, I almost let him kill you" to a 14 year old? Damn.

Huh, weird. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

I do agree that somethin, anythin, needs to happen with Barbara. Her character, at the moment, is damn near schizophrenic with how quickly she changes moods. Its obnoxious.

As for the Gordon thin where he's pissed off at his fellow cops I feel as if you missed some context here. He's not pissed that they're dicks, since we already knew they were dicks. He's pissed because he believed that when the chips were down people would stand up for what was right. Instead the honest to god truth was shoved in his face. That people aren't always soft and gooey on the inside and sometimes people are just dicks. There's a difference between seein that people are selfish jerkwads, and knowin that people are selfish jerkwads.

shintakie10:
Huh, weird. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

I do agree that somethin, anythin, needs to happen with Barbara. Her character, at the moment, is damn near schizophrenic with how quickly she changes moods. Its obnoxious.

As for the Gordon thin where he's pissed off at his fellow cops I feel as if you missed some context here. He's not pissed that they're dicks, since we already knew they were dicks. He's pissed because he believed that when the chips were down people would stand up for what was right. Instead the honest to god truth was shoved in his face. That people aren't always soft and gooey on the inside and sometimes people are just dicks. There's a difference between seein that people are selfish jerkwads, and knowin that people are selfish jerkwads.

I agree, the parts of the show that I find the worst are the parts with Barbara. The actress playing her isn't the greatest, but it still seems the show doesn't know what to do with the character either.

Ok, everything has been said about Barbara.

Gordon being angry was a bad thing. As shintake10 said, he was disappointed because he believed that people would stand up, at least when a fellow cop is in danger.
Alfred's reaction was really scary. Just taking him to the kid to beat him up.
But ,and I have said the same last week, this show is trying to paint Alfred in more shades than previous Batman media and my
"more Body Guard than Butler"theory seems even more plausible this week. Bruce seems a little inconsistent, but he's a child that has been heavily traumatized.
I am really interested to see where they are taking it.

A parting thought: I like the show, but the really really need to get a little more coherence into the show.

shintakie10:
Huh, weird. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

I do agree that somethin, anythin, needs to happen with Barbara. Her character, at the moment, is damn near schizophrenic with how quickly she changes moods. Its obnoxious.

I couldn't agree more, I enjoy the show.

Now I'm going to rant about Barbara for a minute. Barbara is just a complete hot mess. I don't know if it is that the actress is bad, or if its the combination of being directed poorly and being not very good, but my god every moment with her is just painful to watch. It's so funny how they can't seem to decide whether they are going to give her a back story or not. Every time you think there is a loose end with her, they tie it up so fast it's as if they are afraid that if they let her flesh out her story any more they'll actually have to put her on camera for more than a few seconds and then the world will end. She had a relationship with Montoya, which they just kind of glossed over and pretty much killed that drama quick. We are never allowed to see her interact with other characters with anything more than small talk. She's so schizophrenic and one note at the same time... I don't really know how to process her.

Is she supposed to be strong or weak? Smart or stupid? Helpless or self reliant? Is she going to impact the story or not? It's so weird because they have hit the nail on the head with so many characters like the Penguin and Harvey, and it's like they got to her and they panicked and now we're left with a concept that seems like it was scribbled on a napkin half way through filming.

[edit]

Hiramas:
Ok, everything has been said about Barbara.

lol I was probably typing this while you posted. but yeah, I think I got that out of my system...

I don't know why I'm still watching Gotham, I don't like it, the characters are dumb, and the whole premise is just wrong. They should have made a series based on the GCPD comic book not this... not bad but not good show.

If you want a better show go watch Arrow, The Flash, and/or Constantine. At least those are somewhat closer to the new52 source material... oh and they're actually good!

That scene where Bruce beat the kids ass and Alfred let it happen was prob my favorite scene in this week's ep.

You hate all the eps I like xD

When are some more flash reviews coming the show has been getting so much better

On the subject of Alfred taking Bruce to beat up the bully:

Remember that Alfred isn't American, he's English. Upper class English still have vestiges of an honor culture going even today, and Gotham's 'timeless' era (mashup of everything from the 50's to the 90's) probably means he's got more than a little of that in his makeup. In that culture, you do not let a person denigrate your dead mother. You do not take getting beat up 3 on 1 laying down. You get even and you make them afraid to mess with you. Alfred also obviously knows that depending on the authorities for protection is not going to end well in Gotham.

Note that I am not making a moral judgement as to whether Alfred did the right thing here. Just trying to provide context.

I think that what this episode is meant to establish is that Alfred might just be the number one influence on Bruce's decision to become Batman later on.

MisterSurreal:
On the subject of Alfred taking Bruce to beat up the bully:

Remember that Alfred isn't American, he's English. Upper class English still have vestiges of an honor culture going even today, and Gotham's 'timeless' era (mashup of everything from the 50's to the 90's) probably means he's got more than a little of that in his makeup. In that culture, you do not let a person denigrate your dead mother. You do not take getting beat up 3 on 1 laying down. You get even and you make them afraid to mess with you. Alfred also obviously knows that depending on the authorities for protection is not going to end well in Gotham.

Note that I am not making a moral judgement as to whether Alfred did the right thing here. Just trying to provide context.

I think that what this episode is meant to establish is that Alfred might just be the number one influence on Bruce's decision to become Batman later on.

Yeah, that would hold more ground if he didn't try to persuade Bruce that "there is no shame in that", even when not truly believing it himself, he would not used that weak argument on him. Besides, Alfred in Gotham is painted more like cockney English than upper class...

I don't mind the scene because I don't think it goes against the characters, but it is still morally scary when you consider he encouraged a kid to beat another kid to death.

Has no one else pointed out that the kid Bruce beat up was Tommy Elliot also known as Hush?

Another lukewarm review for Gotham. Haven't watched the episode yet. But I'm glad I'm seeing a lot of positive viewer feedback for it.

Mike Hoffman:

Candidus:
Not sure what you think is wrong with teaching a kid how to fight. Alfred's a model father in that scene. Pacifism is a fucking aberration, just plain harmful to the kids indoctrinated with it. Teaching kids that absorbing a beating and telling whoever constitutes the `authorities` at a given stage in their lives is "the high road, morally" is practically abuse.

The dude gave the kid a quick substitute for brass knuckles and had him go to another kid's home to bust his face open. Learning some self-defense is one thing, but that's not it. Sure, an argument can be made for using this to prevent future occurrences, but "Remember, I almost let him kill you" to a 14 year old? Damn.

The point of that scene and especially his words at the end was to get Tommy to fear Bruce and thus stop his abuse. Alfred knew that if a kid that insults another kid's dead mother, not to mention only a short while after that kid had just witnessed that mother be murdered was willing to go that far it would quickly escalate until Bruce was the one lying broken and bleeding on the floor, so he decided to nip that in the bud right off. That scene was Alfred's way of saying "do NOT F**K with this kid again!"

Plus, if one thing has been shown about Alfred is that he had great respect for the Waynes and considered them very close friends on top of being their servant. No doubt Tommy mocking Mrs. Wayne so brazenly right on Bruce's first day royally pissed him off.

I for one applaud Alfred for what he did. He's not teaching Bruce to be a thug, he's teaching him that some people sometimes REALLY deserve to get their faces bashed in, but he's also teaching Bruce that it's an occasional thing. That's what I wish parents across the world would really teach their children instead of this "don't fight no matter how much the other guy deserves it or even in your own defense" crap that most are on these days.

As for Gordon, he was well justified in his anger toward his fellow cops this episode. With the exception of Bullock and the captain every one of them abandoned him to probably die at Falcone's hands, if that isn't good reason to say "the hell with what they think of me" then I don't know what is.

Oh yeah, about Black Mask, that wasn't THE Black Mask. BM's name is Roman Sionis, and this one's name was Richard Sionis, so it's probably intended to be a "runs in the family" kind of thing. It's the writer's way of bringing in members of Batman's rogue's gallery that shouldn't exist yet. As for his motivation I thought that was pretty obvious, it's that he got off on violence and so just like the populace of Rome and their Colosseum he set it up so he could watch a bunch of accountants beat the crap out of each other to feed that, but he's more than willing to get into the ring himself. Gotham is just the kind of nutty place to breed the sorts of people that would not only set things like this up but participate in them.

Last week's episode was the best BY FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.
This week's episode was.....meh.

This show has a LOT of potential, and occasionally it's GREAT (basically everything with Penguin), but it spends about 65% of its time being kinda shit.

I'm actually wondering why the Escapist does this weekly review when the columnist doesn't seem to have enjoyed ANY episodes so far. For my tastes, Gotham is FAR better than Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in the first season (and the second...) and has the difficult issue of trying to tell the story of Batman's Gotham City before Batman shows up. I had hoped it would be more like the Gotham Central comics but it's actually pretty enjoyable so far.

Many TV shows struggle to find their footing during the first season (go back and look at the first season of Star Trek: the Next Generation for example) while the cast struggles to figure out what works and what doesn't. Gotham is certainly looking that way - some things work, some don't - some characters need to be defined, others removed. My suggestion is to give it time...

GraveDigger27:
I'm actually wondering why the Escapist does this weekly review when the columnist doesn't seem to have enjoyed ANY episodes so far. For my tastes, Gotham is FAR better than Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in the first season (and the second...) and has the difficult issue of trying to tell the story of Batman's Gotham City before Batman shows up. I had hoped it would be more like the Gotham Central comics but it's actually pretty enjoyable so far.

Many TV shows struggle to find their footing during the first season (go back and look at the first season of Star Trek: the Next Generation for example) while the cast struggles to figure out what works and what doesn't. Gotham is certainly looking that way - some things work, some don't - some characters need to be defined, others removed. My suggestion is to give it time...

Gotham is about on par with Agents Of SHIELD's first 11 episodes.
Aside from the bits with Penguin (which are fantastic), it is VASTLY worse than Agents Of SHIELD from Episode 12 onwards.

I'm confused why this mediocre show gets a weekly review column, but The Flash, better on pretty much every single level, doesn't.

I watched about ten minutes of the latest episode, and I just didn't want to keep watching anymore. I got on board when I heard Renee Montoya was going to be on the show, one of my favorite characters in the DC universe since childhood, but they've really stuck her in the background. She just seems to exist to be a weak threat to Jim's relationship with Barbara. It's an interesting subplot to have had Barbara and Renee together in the past, but her jealous drive to find Jim guilty to win Barbara back is a really pointless and stupid subplot. Penguin has been interesting, Fish has been interesting, the balloon man episode was funny and had me hooked for a bit, but Jim and Bullock have just been walking white male stereotypes. They are well acted out but their roles and personalities bore the crap out of me.

Now one more but for the road.

 

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