Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age: Inquisition - Fantasy Commander Shepard

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Morthasa:
The war table missions do weigh down the pace a bit, but most of the rime they are not essential (even instant in some cases). Later on in the game however there are some war table missions that can take upwards of 20 hours to complete (!)

Luckily if you are on PC and naughty, you can con the game by ALT+TAB'ing, changing the date and back again and returning to the game. Don't know if this may be done on console (might require exiting the game in their case).

Actually, I found that for some reason they keep counting down even if I close the game. So when I am done playing I set up all of the long operations, go to bed, and I find they are all completed when I come back the next day. I found this also applies to switching characters, provided you are like me and create a half dozen characters in these sorts of games just to see what is different with varying choices.
Even still, there were a couple ridiculously long ones that I felt were unrealistic and took forever even when I was taking advantage of the system. On those, however, I noticed that the various agents you recruit (which reduce completion time by the advisor they fall under) have a much higher time reduction effect on the longer missions. In one case it dropped a 20 hour operation down to a 15, which is still high, but makes me wonder if I could have gotten it even lower if I had recruited the right forces.

Aiddon:
sounds like it just has a bunch of STUFF in it. That's the problem with sandboxes at times; they're so concerned with making them BIG, but actually loading them with substance is really, really hard so they just fill it with STUFF. Padding. Fluff, something that is there solely to make things seem more epic than they really are.

Very much this. It obviously tried to go for a big, open world with tons of stuff in it, and what it ended up with was a cluttered mess. Sure, there's tons of stuff, and most of it is actually quite fun and well made, but none of it really fits together particularly well. One minute you're in a desperate fight for control of a region, nexy minute your bag is too full of flowers so you pop back to your base, wander around some shops for a bit, then head out to a completely different region to do something equally sensible but entirely unrelated to the fight you were supposed to be in the middle of.

This is mainly why Origins is still the much better game. The world was partly open, but in a way that prevented you from just wandering off in the middle of a climatic battle. And while being more scripted meant smaller areas and less action overall, it also meant that everything that happened had been put there deliberately rather than just having generic bandits and bears constantly spawning in front of you. This is something many developers just don't seem to understand - the more open a world is, the less control you have over events and therefore the less focussed the story and flow can be. That's fine for something like WoW where there isn't a single plot players follow from beginning to end, but it works much less well in a single player game that is apparently trying to tell exactly that kind of story.

SNCommand:

Jman1236:
I just started the game myself and not only did I roll a mage but also an elf so becoming the chosen one is kinda besare since elfs are enslaved and mages are disliked in this world.

Creating some cosmic irony was half the fun making your character this time around

A Qunari mage as the Maker's chosen? The Maker must be havin a laugh!

Exactly :) My current playthrough is a mage with horns so magnificient it makes Chief Goat Tosser green with envy, just for the fun of forcing that choice down the chantry's collective throat.

One thing I liked is that the choice of race/class actually does have some minor effects on the game. There's all the comments of course - having Josephine dancing around the question 'Are you a heathen Qun religious fanatic and if yes, how the f--- am I going to be able to spin this...?' was amusing. But it's also reflected a little bit in the game. My first playthrough was with a human mage, and when I got to the Orlesian Court section in Halamshiral, everybody took one look at me and took ten points off my 'time to get the bouncers to kick out the filth' score just for being part of one of the factions of loonies that started a civil war on their doorstep. Whereas my human rogue got handed champagne and canapés. I can't wait to see how they'll react to my Qunari mage :P I half expect them to call the cops before I get my foot through the door.

Yeah, I'm on my third play through, which is pretty amazing considering I cannot utterly and completely neglect my kids/dogs/house/job in order to play the latest BW crack installment. Then again, I'm not a completionist. I see it as a great thing that there's a bazillion side quests, though, because it means that I've been able to do different regions/sidequests to level and power grind each time, outside the obligatory ones. I didn't even bother getting Dennet's horses this time, because yeah, I'm with Yahtzee on this one, fuck horses.

Kahani:

Aiddon:
sounds like it just has a bunch of STUFF in it. That's the problem with sandboxes at times; they're so concerned with making them BIG, but actually loading them with substance is really, really hard so they just fill it with STUFF. Padding. Fluff, something that is there solely to make things seem more epic than they really are.

Very much this. It obviously tried to go for a big, open world with tons of stuff in it, and what it ended up with was a cluttered mess. Sure, there's tons of stuff, and most of it is actually quite fun and well made, but none of it really fits together particularly well. One minute you're in a desperate fight for control of a region, nexy minute your bag is too full of flowers so you pop back to your base, wander around some shops for a bit, then head out to a completely different region to do something equally sensible but entirely unrelated to the fight you were supposed to be in the middle of.

This is mainly why Origins is still the much better game. The world was partly open, but in a way that prevented you from just wandering off in the middle of a climatic battle. And while being more scripted meant smaller areas and less action overall, it also meant that everything that happened had been put there deliberately rather than just having generic bandits and bears constantly spawning in front of you. This is something many developers just don't seem to understand - the more open a world is, the less control you have over events and therefore the less focussed the story and flow can be. That's fine for something like WoW where there isn't a single plot players follow from beginning to end, but it works much less well in a single player game that is apparently trying to tell exactly that kind of story.

What is wrong with wandering off? This is what I love most about this game is the exploring, its the same reason why I like Skyrim as well because it allows more freedom to pursue missions in the way I want to and not have every level consist of one long hallway with a few battles and a cutscene. It sounds like this game just wasn't meant for your style of play and that is perfectly fine but I never felt once that the game lost its focus with the story.

*Brief zone spoilers ahead*

Every zone has a story that is directly linked with the main story:
Hinterlands - Mage/Templar War and helping the refugees.
Storm Coast - Looking for signs of the Grey Wardens, fighting Darkspawn and recruiting mercenaries.
Forgotten Oasis - Finding out what the shards do and how they are connected with the Venatori
Fallow Mire - Rescuing captured soldiers and consciprting the Avvar
Crestwood - Continuing the search for the Grey Wardens and finding out the connection with the mayor and the 5th blight.

I could go on with every zone because each one has its own internal story, so I don't see how this game is even remotely close to a "cluttered mess".

I'm not really sure what the operative criticism of "big worlds" is. I get it, I'm a completionist and I like doing everything too, but not every playthrough. Oh no, there's all this OPTIONAL CRAP I can do, such a terrible game with fluff and padding! I'd rather have optional stuff than no stuff at all. If you want to advance the story, just advance it. Power is so easy to get that you don't really have to do much. Yes, if you spend 20 hours in the Hinterlands trying to do EVERYTHING at once (which you can't anyway) then you're not gonna have a fun time. That goes for any game, really.

I've never played an MMO so I don't really know what people are referencing, there. The combat is almost exactly like DAO except for the talent limit and it's not painfully slow.

Face it, Origins and DA2 had no sense of exploration or connectivity. It was hard to say how big the place actually was. Not to mention it was all brown and dirty. The story missions were cool but in many cases overly long, the Deep Roads was just room after room of Darkspawn and it felt much more like padding than anything I did in DAI, and unlike DAI, it was linear with very few side quests (there was that one with the sword, I guess). Brecilian Forest was the closest it got in DAO, but it was still small and not that interesting. Not to mention that story thread was the least interesting and the game pressured you into the one right answer. Don't even get me started on the Fade, AKA 2 extra hours full of tedious PADDING.

I guess I'll just have to get used to people crying until they get their precious DAO2.

Kahani:

Very much this. It obviously tried to go for a big, open world with tons of stuff in it, and what it ended up with was a cluttered mess. Sure, there's tons of stuff, and most of it is actually quite fun and well made, but none of it really fits together particularly well. One minute you're in a desperate fight for control of a region, nexy minute your bag is too full of flowers so you pop back to your base, wander around some shops for a bit, then head out to a completely different region to do something equally sensible but entirely unrelated to the fight you were supposed to be in the middle of.

This is mainly why Origins is still the much better game. The world was partly open, but in a way that prevented you from just wandering off in the middle of a climatic battle. And while being more scripted meant smaller areas and less action overall, it also meant that everything that happened had been put there deliberately rather than just having generic bandits and bears constantly spawning in front of you. This is something many developers just don't seem to understand - the more open a world is, the less control you have over events and therefore the less focussed the story and flow can be. That's fine for something like WoW where there isn't a single plot players follow from beginning to end, but it works much less well in a single player game that is apparently trying to tell exactly that kind of story.

Exactly, and that's a problem. It's why I find the TeS series to be so overrated; these aren't rich, detailed, multi-layered worlds but just a big map full of PADDING. This is why I've come to detest people thinking that taking that as inspiration for the Zelda series. That would be HORRIFYING because with Zelda not a single polygon is wasted. It seems to me that stuff like sandboxes has become the haven for devs who don't want to craft a proper narrative or bother with making a meticulously-designed, rich world. Side quests have become another problem because, let's be honest, they AREN'T side quests. Like in Mass Effect, they're needed for finishing the cast members' arcs and getting the best ending for 2. Why should that be a "side" activity, especially due to the fact that if you DON'T go side questing you won't be bulky enough to take the next story challenge? I don't see how that can be considered ideal design.

I, for the most part, agree with Yahtzee's praises and criticisms of the game. On certain points:

>"Random Johnny"

Agreed. Big time. This is why Origins, at least to me, was my favorite of the series. It, at least, showed the Warden their individual circumstances and what they had to do to get there. The Inquisitor's rise to power seems less original though each playthrough. Yeah, there are text backstories, but they don't really say anything about their character. For all we know, they could've gotten lost to the bathroom and just stumbled upon the whole plot.

>"Default Hawke"

I guess Yahtzee didn't customize his own Hawke. Was there no option to make his own when the prompt came up?

>"Saucy Ambassador Lady showing her bum"

Sorry, Yahtzee. Josephine does not show her bum even if you romance her. You do, however, get to fence for her honor and sit on a couch with her.

In the end, I enjoyed the game and I'm glad Bioware took the criticisms to heart and stepped up their game after Dragon Age 2.

Burnouts3s3:

>"Default Hawke"

I guess Yahtzee didn't customize his own Hawke. Was there no option to make his own when the prompt came up?

Yeah there's an incredibly obvious option when Hawke first appears in-game, don't know why he missed it when you can't proceed until you pick to customize hawke or not.

Anyways, the hair jokes reminded me of a classic bioware joke

"You know it's a bioware game when they spent 2 years on story, one year on gameplay, and 20 minutes on hairstyles"

Coreless:

What is wrong with wandering off? This is what I love most about this game is the exploring, its the same reason why I like Skyrim as well because it allows more freedom to pursue missions in the way I want to and not have every level consist of one long hallway with a few battles and a cutscene. It sounds like this game just wasn't meant for your style of play and that is perfectly fine but I never felt once that the game lost its focus with the story.

You're comparing Skyrim and Dragon Age, that's your problem. One is from a franchise made to be open-world and a sandbox, the other a narrative-driven loosely linear RPG.

Redryhno:

Coreless:

What is wrong with wandering off? This is what I love most about this game is the exploring, its the same reason why I like Skyrim as well because it allows more freedom to pursue missions in the way I want to and not have every level consist of one long hallway with a few battles and a cutscene. It sounds like this game just wasn't meant for your style of play and that is perfectly fine but I never felt once that the game lost its focus with the story.

You're comparing Skyrim and Dragon Age, that's your problem. One is from a franchise made to be open-world and a sandbox, the other a narrative-driven loosely linear RPG.

Sorry I don't see the problem, franchises are what developers decide they are, its not written in stone that games have to stay a certain way. Dragon Age is still a narrative driven franchise its just now added on elements of open world games to bring in all the things that people have been wanting from their past games. All these changes are almost one for one changes that people complained about coming from games like DA2 and ME3. I guess people must have been asleep for the last 5 years when people were screaming "The game is too linear!", "The game just recycles levels","There isn't enough exploration!" or "why cant I customize my gear!" etc. Now that Bioware actually added all that, people are now complaining the complete opposite "The areas are too big!" , "I don't want choice I just want to be lead everywhere!" or "I don't want to have to gather materials for crafting" seriously they just can't win even when they listen to the feedback.

Glad to hear a well-known critic talk about the hair in this game. I must have spent (no joke) 15 hours replaying the opening scene trying to build a character who didn't look like they had plastic hair.

Also, the lack of sideburns as a facial hair option made me sad.

Christ the hair was weird, I think this is the first time I've ever gone with a completely balled character.

A game with a focused narative, well paced story and interesting characters can be just as god, if not better than a gigantic sandbox.

Or it can be Xenoblade

***

I'm glad someone else finally pointed out how much DA: I feels like an MMO, because that has been my main gripe with the game and was also the reason i did a 100% collectibles run of The Last of Us over thanksgiving rather than play Inquisition.

Then again, the cooldown-based combat system shows that they were aiming at for a single-player MMO from the beginning, which in itself is not a bad idea.

***

Why are you doing tons of side quests for? People have said this over and over again, they are completely optional and can be ignored so I don't understand the problem.

Because for RPG players completionism is a pavlovian reflex honed by years if not decades of practice. (Damn, I still remember the hours I lost trying to find every little event or cache in Exile 3, brrrrrr)

***

Creating some cosmic irony was half the fun making your character this time around
A Qunari mage as the Maker's chosen? The Maker must be havin a laugh!

That's pretty much the reason I made my Warden an elvish mage: the final payoff came in Dragon Age 2, when Hawke confront Elthina about the contradiction between the Chantry's teaching on mages and the fact that a rule-flaunting mage ended the Blight in record time, saving millions, she pretty much answers "The Maker chooses who the fuck He wants to save the world"

Darth_Payn:
But there are still dragons in this game, right?
But yeah, it wouldn't be a BioWare RPG without the INCREDIBLY finicky equipping system.
But you got me with AC:Unity having the guy's head disappear and leave his eyes and teeth floating there.

You'd wish there weren't after you visit a certain valley in the FIRST ZONE AT LEVEL 3.

Coreless:

Sorry I don't see the problem, franchises are what developers decide they are, its not written in stone that games have to stay a certain way. Dragon Age is still a narrative driven franchise its just now added on elements of open world games to bring in all the things that people have been wanting from their past games. All these changes are almost one for one changes that people complained about coming from games like DA2 and ME3. I guess people must have been asleep for the last 5 years when people were screaming "The game is too linear!", "The game just recycles levels","There isn't enough exploration!" or "why cant I customize my gear!" etc. Now that Bioware actually added all that, people are now complaining the complete opposite "The areas are too big!" , "I don't want choice I just want to be lead everywhere!" or "I don't want to have to gather materials for crafting" seriously they just can't win even when they listen to the feedback.

Ok, first, mind dropping the attitude? It doesn't do much to convince me when every post you make is fangenderpronoun'ing all over it and refusing to let people have problems with it.

Yes, devs can make a franchise whatever they want, we saw that going from Battletower and Arena to Redguard and Morrowind in TES, the difference is Morrowind, for all it's faults, has alot of character in every area, and I think there's only like two dungeons that don't have some kind of story behind them. The thing is that when this was announced as going open-world a few years ago, I knew exactly the problems it would come with, and as such, I'm not going to be buying it until the price drop around February.

As for the rest of it, DA2 recycled levels, not just the same area you go back to, but the exact same layout except this time with invisible walls to keep you from places you could go in the last cave/winecellar/basement/dungeon with the exact same layout and map, that was what people were pissed about. As for customizing gear and not enough exploration, I have no idea where you got those complaints.

As for the present complaints, alot of this thread are people complaining that the areas are big and that there's nothing filling them, not that they're too big. And tell me exactly in what game gathering materials in order to get gear to survive is fun and people DON'T complain about it in some fashion? And again, I'm not seeing people complaining that they aren't being led everywhere, I'm seeing people complaining there is no drive to play past a certain point.

Laurents van Cauwenberghe:
I heard a lot of people saying that this game becomes good after 20 odd hours. Is it just me or is that fucking mental? If it's true however, I'd like to give it rename Dragon Age: Inquisition to Dragon Age: Stockholm Syndrome

I've heard that too, but for me was good from right after I finished creating my character.

Jman1236:
I just started the game myself and not only did I roll a mage but also an elf so becoming the chosen one is kinda besare since elfs are enslaved and mages are disliked in this world.

I became a human mage myself. It's kind of intriguing how a lot of the characters treat you with either a sort of unease or just straight up don't trust you. I was curious if the same happened on any of the other classes and apparently not.

Th37thTrump3t:
I became a human mage myself. It's kind of intriguing how a lot of the characters treat you with either a sort of unease or just straight up don't trust you. I was curious if the same happened on any of the other classes and apparently not.

My favorite was Sera after my male human mage specialized in Rift magic.
"Could you stop being scary, doing scary stuff. I don't understand magic, it's scary."

Next playthrough will be a tal-vashoth bas.

Aethren:

Darth_Payn:
But there are still dragons in this game, right?
But yeah, it wouldn't be a BioWare RPG without the INCREDIBLY finicky equipping system.
But you got me with AC:Unity having the guy's head disappear and leave his eyes and teeth floating there.

You'd wish there weren't after you visit a certain valley in the FIRST ZONE AT LEVEL 3.

"I wonder who Lady Shayna is?"

EDIT: Zontar beat me to it

"Pop off like GabeNewell's shirt buttons"

...uh oh, HL3 just got delayed atleast 3 more months according to the rules of VALVeTIMe

I'm actually a lot more surprised Yahtz didn't take the bait to mention any Political-Social issues b/c it seems like everyone else has been taking that bait with this game and its "progressive pandering" -- to which I say GOOD, keep it that way :p

I have to agree with Yahtzee - the game itself is pretty great but I was kind of annoyed at just how much shit gets dropped into your lap every few feet you walk in a new area. You're either spending hours hacking up bad guys or spending hours talking to your party members back at Skyhold, with not a lot of balance between the two once you get into the meat and potatoes of the game. I'm feeling a bit weighed down right now and while I want to keep playing the game, the pacing is just throwing me off. Otherwise, it's pretty good and probably my favorite Dragon Age as well.

Actually, I'm sort of surprised he didn't complain about the levels of enemies and how there's no real way to know how strong enemies will be in an area until you actually get out there and do some poking around. Hell, some of the rifts in the Hinterlands are level 12.

I think Dragon Age Inquisition looks really good!

Although I am playing on PC at high settings so that might be the reason.

Oh Maker, they still have the excess amounts of grinding combat against small groups of baddies no matter how big and epic the game gets? All the Dragon Age games are (in my opinion) massively dragged down by all the boring grinding, to the point where I usually play them on the lowest difficulty setting just to get through the repetitive combats faster. (One thing I like about the Awakening expansion to Origins is that you're usually high-level enough to roflstomp random mooks very quickly.)

Most everything about this game sounds right up my alley, because I like both strategy games and RPGs and I quite enjoyed the asset-gathering stuff in Mass Effect 3, but if grinding is still an issue, I might not bother with it on general principle.

Incidentally, for people who've played it, how does the game avoid making you feel like you have infinite time to muck about before the main plot kicks back into action? Is it something similar to the real-time-based missions, where the main enemy move forward or otherwise do something every X hours?

Interesting lore, an expansive open world, endless hours of stuff to do, a shit menu system, and janky glitches everywhere? I think we've found The Elder Scrolls VI: Thedas.

Kinda disagree with the graphics part. Running it on ultra on a PC and by god, it is gorgeous!

Keith Fraser:
Incidentally, for people who've played it, how does the game avoid making you feel like you have infinite time to muck about before the main plot kicks back into action? Is it something similar to the real-time-based missions, where the main enemy move forward or otherwise do something every X hours?

I got 80 hours down (still incomplete first playthrough) and i didn't got a feeling of pressure. But you find troops, even different branches of the enemy army. The missions have no timer on them (that i know of), but you get glimpses and pieces of how big your opponent actually is and how active he goes about his goal.

The game would have benefited heavily from cutting out one or two of the open exploration areas and adding more plot missions.

Keith Fraser:
Oh Maker, they still have the excess amounts of grinding combat against small groups of baddies no matter how big and epic the game gets? All the Dragon Age games are (in my opinion) massively dragged down by all the boring grinding, to the point where I usually play them on the lowest difficulty setting just to get through the repetitive combats faster. (One thing I like about the Awakening expansion to Origins is that you're usually high-level enough to roflstomp random mooks very quickly.)

Most everything about this game sounds right up my alley, because I like both strategy games and RPGs and I quite enjoyed the asset-gathering stuff in Mass Effect 3, but if grinding is still an issue, I might not bother with it on general principle.

Incidentally, for people who've played it, how does the game avoid making you feel like you have infinite time to muck about before the main plot kicks back into action? Is it something similar to the real-time-based missions, where the main enemy move forward or otherwise do something every X hours?

The game can take as long as you want it to, the main story quests are easy to access and they you really don't have to do any grinding if you don't want to. This game gives people plenty of options for avoiding fighting, enemies show up on the map and you can run around them if you don't want to fight. On normal difficult you can just mow through people without having to work very hard but on the harder difficulties they can literally one shot you if your not careful.

The war table missions, outside of the main quests are mostly for increasing influence, additional side stories, lore, facilitating companion quests and getting additional resources like gear or ore. Its not absolutely necessary outside of opening up new lands but it does have a meta game aspect to it if you want to really understand it, like recruiting agents or working toward certain perks.

The biggest problems people have with this game is that they get bogged down in side quests instead of focusing on the main story, sure some of the story quests have requirements to meet but they aren't hard to get to. You could probably finish this game in like 15-20 hours if you just focus on the main quests and nothing else.

short version: its better than previous dragon age games but it is still bad and still made by EA so just go play skyrim for the billionth time instead

BlueJoneleth:

Darth_Payn:
But there are still dragons in this game, right?
But yeah, it wouldn't be a BioWare RPG without the INCREDIBLY finicky equipping system.
But you got me with AC:Unity having the guy's head disappear and leave his eyes and teeth floating there.

There are 10 optional dragon bosses and one mandatory.

I've played a couple hours my opinion so is while it is good I have to qualify that with a BUT at the end. It still a good game but it is still saddled with many of the same issues as past Bioware titles. And right from the start I felt like I was just Commander Shepard taking taking time off to be in a fantasy LARP. Swear to god I half expected my character to suddenly ask "What can you tell me about the reapers?" during the many long dialog scenes. XD

It's funny because the description of Fantasy Commander Shepherd pretty much sold me right there, but then he starts talking about the gameplay and, even when you wipe off the usual ZP bile, it sounds mediocre. That won't stop me from playing because I bloody enjoyed the first two and I'll take this as well, but yeah, interesting description. I never liked the "faff quota" mechanic and I doubt I will here either, but if I'm enjoying playing and interested in the story then I don't see myself giving up.

And besides, what doesn't look like shit these days? Guess that's why I'm opting for PC on this one.

Keith Fraser:
Oh Maker, they still have the excess amounts of grinding combat against small groups of baddies no matter how big and epic the game gets? All the Dragon Age games are (in my opinion) massively dragged down by all the boring grinding, to the point where I usually play them on the lowest difficulty setting just to get through the repetitive combats faster. (One thing I like about the Awakening expansion to Origins is that you're usually high-level enough to roflstomp random mooks very quickly.)

Most everything about this game sounds right up my alley, because I like both strategy games and RPGs and I quite enjoyed the asset-gathering stuff in Mass Effect 3, but if grinding is still an issue, I might not bother with it on general principle.

Incidentally, for people who've played it, how does the game avoid making you feel like you have infinite time to muck about before the main plot kicks back into action? Is it something similar to the real-time-based missions, where the main enemy move forward or otherwise do something every X hours?

That is a giant problem with nearly every Bioware game: the repetitive, padded fighting. It's why I played the KOTOR games on the lowest difficulty setting because while there was a lot of fun things in them, the combat was not one of them. And it doesn't help that every Bioware game (and nearly every Western RPG for that matter) has tended to have their climaxes consist of nothing but long, ultimately boring fights that you want to plow through. Not a good thing to do when such a huge chunk of the game is battling.

Problems aside, DA:I is a massive step in the right direction for Bioware's intellectual property. Instead of going the easy route by making a game appeal to non-fans by dumbing down it's story line, the game actually takes a chance and rewards the fans who have stuck with the series up to this point. One area where this is readily obvious is the choice of villain for the game.

This sort of direction is comforting because even though the big bad doesn't appear in the main body of the previous games, BioWare doesn't jerk around it's players by saying it wasn't important. It's nice to see that BioWare is committed to the story they're telling at the expense of alienating new comers. If you ever played the Mass Effect games, "Plot Abandoning" was all too common.

This is a case where PC Master Race has a huge advantage (if you have the $$$ to burn up front). With SSD, loading times are just a couple seconds. That's hours saved when you see them so often.

Though... they have those three tabs of flavor text on the loading screen that you can page and scroll through, but just as soon as I think something looks interesting... oop, we're loaded, back to the game! Sorry, you don't get to read that. So there is a downside.

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