Warhammer Fantasy is Having an Apocalyptic Meltdown

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Warhammer Fantasy is Having an Apocalyptic Meltdown

In fiction and in rules, it looks like Warhammer Fantasy Battles is having an apocalyptic meltdown - here's what's happening and what might happen.

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The rumour that 9th would go skirmish has been floating around for the best part of a year, if not longer, so I'd not be surprised if it did turn out to be true. WHFB has been overshadowed by 40K for a long long time now so at this point just about any attempt to revitalise is could get signed off on. Regardless I still think it'll remain the weaker of the two.

Ironically 40K has been going in the other direction with an ever greater emphasis on larger armies, larger vehicles (and more of them) and formations. It would be strange to see WHFB turn into a skirmish game at the same time as 40K is turning into 28mm scale Epic. Still, given the relative selling power of the two IPs such a reversal would make sense.

Gheghe. Why do people believe these rumours? At the very best, this is going to be a new edition of Mordheim. They'd be total idiots for removing one of the more popular armies.

I haven't seen anything on /tg/ about this so i don't think it's completely on the level but if true, more reason to play mantic's kings of war.
btw, zoats, squats, dogs of war, jean (heh) stealer cults, Good ork army lists, ork flavour, witch hunters, specialist games, kroot mercs, demiurg, pirate and feral ork and eldar armies, Harlequin armies, good pricing and game balance.
list of things gw has killed.
Seems I can add valtan because it was never Karl that was the avatar of SIGMAR, no wonder I'm still waiting for my luthor Huss, valten and luthor were linked in fluff.
That being said at least now i can field my human elf and dwarf army
[edit] and chapter approved[edit]

40k has 7 factions?

1. Marines
2. Guard (and the Ordos units)
3. Orks
4. Eldar
5. Dark Eldar (though they keep trying to feed them into a woodchipper)
6. Chaos (Daemons and Chaos Marines)
7. Tau
8. 'Nids (with gene stealers)
9. Necrons

...maybe Eldar and Dark Eldar should be grouped together? But that one seems weird to me.

cleric of the order:
...witch hunters... list of things gw has killed.

So that's why Invasion never expanded Witch Hunters into a full on subfaction. :(

Starke:

cleric of the order:
...witch hunters... list of things gw has killed.

So that's why Invasion never expanded Witch Hunters into a full on subfaction. :(

I meant ordo hereticus, but yeah that can apply to WHFB.

Well, now I don't feel bad about selling off 90% of my collection a couple years ago. I enjoyed WHFB because it wasn't the skirmish-style, Yahtzee-with-miniatures game 40k was. If even half these rumours are true, I'd be sad to see what the game has become. Since when has too many factions been a bad thing?

Starke:
40k has 7 factions?

1. Marines
2. Guard (and the Ordos units)
3. Orks
4. Eldar
5. Dark Eldar (though they keep trying to feed them into a woodchipper)
6. Chaos (Daemons and Chaos Marines)
7. Tau
8. 'Nids (with gene stealers)
9. Necrons

...maybe Eldar and Dark Eldar should be grouped together? But that one seems weird to me.

1. Forces of the Imperium.
2. Orks
3. Eldar/Dark Eldar (battle brothers and all that)
4. Chaos
5. Tau
6. Tyranids
7. Necrons

Is I assume the seven factions being referred to. Each of those factions has an ever-escalating number of sub-factions, of course, but if you think about them that way it meshes well with the Allies system as it currently stands in 7th.

So what you're saying is that the old Wood Elf army I've had for 15 years is no longer going to be legal, and they're going to use this as an excuse to pump up what is already the single most overpriced hobby franchise in history to even more ludicrous levels.

I'll keep staying away.

deth2munkies:
So what you're saying is that the old Wood Elf army I've had for 15 years is no longer going to be legal, and they're going to use this as an excuse to pump up what is already the single most overpriced hobby franchise in history to even more ludicrous levels.

I'll keep staying away.

Yup. Basically. It's why I don't even think about getting into the minis anymore, and just keep derping around with the LCGs and video games.

Raesvelg:

Starke:
40k has 7 factions?

1. Marines
2. Guard (and the Ordos units)
3. Orks
4. Eldar
5. Dark Eldar (though they keep trying to feed them into a woodchipper)
6. Chaos (Daemons and Chaos Marines)
7. Tau
8. 'Nids (with gene stealers)
9. Necrons

...maybe Eldar and Dark Eldar should be grouped together? But that one seems weird to me.

1. Forces of the Imperium.
2. Orks
3. Eldar/Dark Eldar (battle brothers and all that)
4. Chaos
5. Tau
6. Tyranids
7. Necrons

Is I assume the seven factions being referred to. Each of those factions has an ever-escalating number of sub-factions, of course, but if you think about them that way it meshes well with the Allies system as it currently stands in 7th.

Yeah, but at that point... I get where they're trying to streamline all the Imperium units together, it just doesn't really make sense to me.

I mean even the transition from Guard to Astra Militarum... which I still haven't gotten used to, sort of further illustrates the schism between the Marines and Guardsmen. That said, crap like the Imperial Knights seems to be there just to illustrate more diversity between the Imperium forces, but it still seems weird.

Also Eldar/Dark Eldar sounds so wrong. I get the battle brothers affiliation issue, but that doesn't mean they're the same faction. By that logic Tau and Eldar are the same faction. And, by extension, Grey Knights are seperate from Imperium forces.

cleric of the order:

Starke:

cleric of the order:
...witch hunters... list of things gw has killed.

So that's why Invasion never expanded Witch Hunters into a full on subfaction. :(

I meant ordo hereticus, but yeah that can apply to WHFB.

Wait, they deep sixed the Adeptus Sororitas? Crap.

Xenos was Deathwatch, Maleus was Grey Knights or Daemons... Hereticus was the Sisters of Battle, wasn't it?

Starke:

cleric of the order:

Starke:

So that's why Invasion never expanded Witch Hunters into a full on subfaction. :(

I meant ordo hereticus, but yeah that can apply to WHFB.

Wait, they deep sixed the Adeptus Sororitas? Crap.

Xenos was Deathwatch, Maleus was Grey Knights or Daemons... Hereticus was the Sisters of Battle, wasn't it?

Yep... but the adeptus soriritas has been getting the shaft for years upon years no... not only in not getting a good codex but also in fluff, they where the punching bags for everyone essentially and have become more or less a joke in the fluff.

They are the redshirts of the warhammer 40k universe when normal imperial guard redshirts arent dramatic enough.

LvL 2 redshirts.

"You know, the biggest problem with Warhammer is that there are just too many armies to choose between," said no one ever.

Really stupid. So now Elves and Empire/Dwarves will either have billions of models to choose from and balance, or they'll wipe out 50% of existing models and piss off all the players who've kept their old armies for a decade or two.

Games Workshop has really gone full retard lately. This is why I don't waste money on them anymore, and why everyone else I used to play Warhammer with is switching to War Machine.

I was lucky enough to speak to a couple of GW developers during the launch period of their Lord of the Rings skirmish game back in early 2002.

One of the prevailing thoughts was 'if we'd known back when we started all that we know now about games design, Warhammer would have used the LotR rules'.

Shamanic Rhythm:
"You know, the biggest problem with Warhammer is that there are just too many armies to choose between," said no one ever.

I could get it as a barrier for entry, when the models are so expensive that if you accidentally start with the wrong force you could be out a couple grand trying to switch over to a faction you actually like... but I'd hardly fault that on the number of available factions.

Shamanic Rhythm:
Really stupid. So now Elves and Empire/Dwarves will either have billions of models to choose from and balance, or they'll wipe out 50% of existing models and piss off all the players who've kept their old armies for a decade or two.

Wiping out 50% of existing models is probably the plan. It's why they're doing the whole "stuff getting eaten by the warp" mechanic. So they can flat out snuff anything that annoys them.

Shamanic Rhythm:
Games Workshop has really gone full retard lately. This is why I don't waste money on them anymore, and why everyone else I used to play Warhammer with is switching to War Machine.

It's even worse if you're sticking to the tie in material. A bunch of the black library stuff has gotten phased out of print... that could be intentional or just standard operating procedure, but it's made actually getting the fluff a lot more tedious.

They've started passing out the license to any developer willing to front some cash, which has taken the franchise from getting solid AAA games to stuff that's borderline shovelware (like Warhammer Quest or that lane defense 40k game).

The thing I'm most irritated with was whoever canned Invasion, though that could have been FFG's call.

Combine that with the uppricing of models and it's just stupid behavior from them across the board. They want to be a luxury brand imprint now... okay, great, cool, but how the hell are they supposed to pay the bills and stay in business while driving everyone out of the market and killing the brand? To say nothing of the part where their tie in PC games have gone the exact opposite route, and run screaming for the bargain bin.

I think they lost me when they had the Wood Elves join sides with the Dark Elves. Then again, actually, Games Workshop lost me a looong time ago. About the time that White Dwarf became advertising that you paid to receive. I'll just stick to playing with the 6th Ed rules and ignore everything since...

Starke:

Wait, they deep sixed the Adeptus Sororitas? Crap.

Xenos was Deathwatch, Maleus was Grey Knights or Daemons... Hereticus was the Sisters of Battle, wasn't it?

yeah the sisters of battle are hereticus or in the old days witch hunters.
as for the scraping, they got a white dwarf codex (bad sign but hey look at the blood angels).
It's a 100 per squad of ten(well, that's harder to bounce back, people order less, less will be made, support destroyed soon.).
Greyknights borrowed half their 'dex (those were some of the better srats in their army, now they are all cult f the emprah all the time)(mirrors wards story about the greyknights that killed sisters of battle for no reason and used their blood to ward off the daemons, ignoring that greyknights already have wards in their own Armour).
No new models.
and now a webstore exclusive(like all the non plastic eldar and orks).
You cannot find them anymore at stores, because of that last part, even if you can they they can't
In summery doomed to be bricked like most none 'dex xenos.
Worse yet they cost less then forge world imperial guard armies model per model, and i wish was joking.
Or hell forge world space marine legions.
I would rather buy a Horus heresy army then buy sisters, admittedly it would be admech ol' cult of robots.

though if anyone does want to try and build an army send them here.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sisters_of_Battle
they have some army lists for 6e and maybe 7e when the fa/tg/uys get off their butts and get shit done.
but as /tg/ has been languishing lately I'm not sure if that will ever happen.
Nice daemonette will likely show up and everyone will go nuts.

This was by far the most positive I've seen a person be about these rumours. I've been away from the wargame for a bit (though I was big into WFRP back in the day), but people I know in the community HATE a lot of the proposed stuff.

A lot of the fluff would be/is going down the drain; the idea that all the Elves would work together is like saying that Australian Aborigines, South Sudanese, and Jamaicans should form an alliance because they've all got dark skin, except if the Earth equivalent had been fighting against each other for thousands of years, and one of them was literally a cult of baby-eating sadists. A key theme of Warhammer was that even the good guys were out for their own subset first, and they only narrowly came together time and again against the worst threats before breaking up once more. Lumping them together feels just wrong.

Mechanically, combining the forces is another nightmare of balance. Presumably "Empire Core" would be the starting ground for Dwarves, meaning that one force would have some of the best defensive troops in the game (Dwarves), the best artillery (Dwarves and Empire), some solid magic-users (Empire and Bretonnia) and people who can shut down enemy magic (Dwarves), good large blocks of troops (Empire) and the best cavalry in the game (Bretonnia). As Shamanic points out, they'd either have to flush half the current units down the warp-hole or have a steam roller of an army, with enough options to win any battle handily. I have no idea how a faction of super-soldiers would fit into there.

Honestly, I'm just wondering what happened to Dogs of War; that was a good way to shake up current army lists without stomping all over the canon or throwing the entire balance they've tried to build up since the 80's into a blender.

Starke:
40k has 7 factions?

1. Marines
2. Guard (and the Ordos units)
3. Orks
4. Eldar
5. Dark Eldar (though they keep trying to feed them into a woodchipper)
6. Chaos (Daemons and Chaos Marines)
7. Tau
8. 'Nids (with gene stealers)
9. Necrons

...maybe Eldar and Dark Eldar should be grouped together? But that one seems weird to me.

I would add Inquisition, and separate Chaos into Deamons and Chaos Marines.
Deamons have very diffident rules to CSM. And the Inquisition is not quite SM(Gray knights) and not quite Guardsmen(Storm troopers)+ Inquisitors .

There are the Sister of Battle(or the Astatie Sorority or whatever stupid name they came up with) too, but if Dark eldar are going in the wood chipper, SOB are already mulch.

Alleged_Alec:
Gheghe. Why do people believe these rumours? At the very best, this is going to be a new edition of Mordheim. They'd be total idiots for removing one of the more popular armies.

The first two End Times supplements have been out for a while (though I think they've sold out now), and the third is out on Saturday. It isn't a rumour, it's canon.

Joe also seems to have made a few mistakes (The Phoenix King is dead, it's Malekith vs Tyrion) and missed a few things.

I'll not spoil it, but there's a good run down on http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

Those who click that link should beware, spoilers abound.

deth2munkies:
So what you're saying is that the old Wood Elf army I've had for 15 years is no longer going to be legal, and they're going to use this as an excuse to pump up what is already the single most overpriced hobby franchise in history to even more ludicrous levels.

I'll keep staying away.

You can still take a completely Wood Elf list if you want to. You just have the option to use High and Dark Elf units as well, which helps the Wood Elves quite a bit.

I know this is anecdotal, but I spend time at both my local GW store and a Fantasy shop. Between the two stores, I'd say upwards of 30+ players(at least that I've met) come and go. And sadly between the two stores, there is 1 Fantasy player. I'm sure there's another one I haven't met, but the point is Fantasy is just not played that much anymore.
Even compared to 40k its too expensive and the rulebook is an impenetrable block of text and needless rules. There are no 'new' Fantasy players. Everyone is an older player with maybe 3+ editions of experience going on. I even asked my GW store manager if I should look into playing Fantasy and he told me not to bother, its basically dead(He joked he'd happily sell me models, but couldn't guarantee any matches whatsoever). No one plays it, no one buys it. He didn't say so directly, but I got the impression GW is gearing up to just end Fantasy all together in a few years or so.

Shamanic Rhythm:
"You know, the biggest problem with Warhammer is that there are just too many armies to choose between," said no one ever.

Really stupid. So now Elves and Empire/Dwarves will either have billions of models to choose from and balance, or they'll wipe out 50% of existing models and piss off all the players who've kept their old armies for a decade or two.

Games Workshop has really gone full retard lately. This is why I don't waste money on them anymore, and why everyone else I used to play Warhammer with is switching to Warmachine.

Call me a cynic, but I get the feeling that, if GW is consolidating its armies into "core armies", then we'll see expansion books for each individual race. Instead of just buying the Warhammer Core Rulebook and Army Book: Dwarfs, you'd now have to buy the Core Rulebook, Empire Core Army Book, and the Empire Armies: Dwarfs "subfaction" book.

I know, worst case scenario... but when you look at stuff like the Clan Raukaan supplement codex, can you blame me?

So, what do you think of the rumors so far? Do you think any of the rumored changes are more likely than others? What changes would you like to see in the new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, if any at all?

I'll give you my 3rd edition when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. COLD, DEAD HANDS!!!

I still ignore the existence of Sylvania/Vampire counts, Nagash, all that Archaon bullshit, basically I'm stuck in 1st ed WHFRP fluiff wise.

When I grognard, I grognard hard, and I'm grognarding on this.

Captcha: Slippery slope. No captcha, this is a sheer cliff.

Mangod:

Shamanic Rhythm:
"You know, the biggest problem with Warhammer is that there are just too many armies to choose between," said no one ever.

Really stupid. So now Elves and Empire/Dwarves will either have billions of models to choose from and balance, or they'll wipe out 50% of existing models and piss off all the players who've kept their old armies for a decade or two.

Games Workshop has really gone full retard lately. This is why I don't waste money on them anymore, and why everyone else I used to play Warhammer with is switching to Warmachine.

Call me a cynic, but I get the feeling that, if GW is consolidating its armies into "core armies", then we'll see expansion books for each individual race. Instead of just buying the Warhammer Core Rulebook and Army Book: Dwarfs, you'd now have to buy the Core Rulebook, Empire Core Army Book, and the Empire Armies: Dwarfs "subfaction" book.

I know, worst case scenario... but when you look at stuff like the Clan Raukaan supplement codex, can you blame me?

Well, right now the Khaine book is divided into three different flavours of Elf army; current speculation is that only one will survive into core 9th, but it would not surprise me in the least to see the other two (or their successors) being released in smaller splats, with the other armies following suit. They're trying to take so much variety and flavour and squash it down into pellets that it's inevitably going to leak out the sides.

Also, I just realised that WF already has super soldiers: the Ogres! They were one of the more fun armies around, but they may be getting written out almost entirely, as GW had a volcano wipe out their home and most of the rest seem to be heading down to become mercenaries or joining the Orcs.

jimthepocket:

Alleged_Alec:
Gheghe. Why do people believe these rumours? At the very best, this is going to be a new edition of Mordheim. They'd be total idiots for removing one of the more popular armies.

The first two End Times supplements have been out for a while (though I think they've sold out now), and the third is out on Saturday. It isn't a rumour, it's canon.

Joe also seems to have made a few mistakes (The Phoenix King is dead, it's Malekith vs Tyrion) and missed a few things.

I'll not spoil it, but there's a good run down on http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

That's why I said the rumours. That the end times stuff is happening, sure. However, I don't believe for a second they'll do such radical changes to an established game.

Well. Fantasy Warhammer has some Races that COULD be in the Same book.
I think of All the Undeads. All Chaos factions. All Humans. All Elves
That said, if that were the case, all those factions should still have unique models, rules and so on.

Wait a second!
Didn't THEY redo Chaos into 3 Books or something?

D3s_ToD3s:
Well. Fantasy Warhammer has some Races that COULD be in the Same book.
I think of All the Undeads. All Chaos factions. All Humans. All Elves
That said, if that were the case, all those factions should still have unique models, rules and so on.

Wait a second!
Didn't THEY redo Chaos into 3 Books or something?

Well, first they split up into Warriors of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos (Vikings and Furries, basically), then they split off the Daemons from those two to form Daemons of Chaos. So yes, yes they did.

Alleged_Alec:

jimthepocket:

Alleged_Alec:
Gheghe. Why do people believe these rumours? At the very best, this is going to be a new edition of Mordheim. They'd be total idiots for removing one of the more popular armies.

The first two End Times supplements have been out for a while (though I think they've sold out now), and the third is out on Saturday. It isn't a rumour, it's canon.

Joe also seems to have made a few mistakes (The Phoenix King is dead, it's Malekith vs Tyrion) and missed a few things.

I'll not spoil it, but there's a good run down on http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

That's why I said the rumours. That the end times stuff is happening, sure. However, I don't believe for a second they'll do such radical changes to an established game.

Well, they've already done the sweeping changes to canon (though I think there's a couple books left in the End Times), so stuff like the new God-Emperor is going to stick around. Mechanically, they've already made all the Undead one canon army (Nagash is now baked into vanilla), and they've done books that make all of Chaos is one army, and all the Elves as one army, and though they have not yet announced that those two are going to be vanilla, they've said that if anyone at an official event has one of those books the event has to be played according to those rules, so it seems to be less of a rumour more than the blatantly obvious thing GW is doing. Given that GW just nuked every Human nation besides the Empire and Bretonnia, and those two just made a new alliance, it seems like a reasonable guess to say that they'll be blended, cutting the number of armies down further.

Thunderous Cacophony:

Alleged_Alec:

jimthepocket:

The first two End Times supplements have been out for a while (though I think they've sold out now), and the third is out on Saturday. It isn't a rumour, it's canon.

Joe also seems to have made a few mistakes (The Phoenix King is dead, it's Malekith vs Tyrion) and missed a few things.

I'll not spoil it, but there's a good run down on http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

That's why I said the rumours. That the end times stuff is happening, sure. However, I don't believe for a second they'll do such radical changes to an established game.

Well, they've already done the sweeping changes to canon (though I think there's a couple books left in the End Times), so stuff like the new God-Emperor is going to stick around. Mechanically, they've already made all the Undead one canon army (Nagash is now baked into vanilla), and they've done books that make all of Chaos is one army, and all the Elves as one army, and though they have not yet announced that those two are going to be vanilla, they've said that if anyone at an official event has one of those books the event has to be played according to those rules, so it seems to be less of a rumour more than the blatantly obvious thing GW is doing. Given that GW just nuked every Human nation besides the Empire and Bretonnia, and those two just made a new alliance, it seems like a reasonable guess to say that they'll be blended, cutting the number of armies down.

I'm sure they might merge something. They're stupid enough to do that. However, they won't do it as stupidly as this. They just released a lot of new kits of Lizardmen and as an army, they're one of the more popular ones. They'd be better off putting Skaven in the Chaos camp, since they're already pretty much Beastmen. Not only that, but adding a new race while cutting one of the old ones is so mindbogglingly stupid I'm going crosseyed just thinking about it.
Further stuff: I'll believe the limited kits. They're money-grabbing dickbags enough to do that sort of shit. As for fucking over the setting: eh, they could. I hope they don't, since the balls of reality is quite stupid and the Old World is a cool setting.

What I think about the factions:
Chaos Core- Okay, back to roots. I'll buy this.
Elves Core- Even if it's currently in-game, I just can't see Darkies and High elves working together.
Human Core- Blegh. Adding 4 books together is just stupid beyond reproach. Dwarves and Ogres don't fit into this at all.
Undead Core- They don't fit together at all imho and if they do go on with this, much of the flavour will be lost.
Orcs and Goblins- Sure.
Skaven- If they go with the insane 6+1, it's moronic to make Skaven a solitary army. They fit in pretty decently with chaos background-wise (being horribly mutated people and whatnot).

So, yeah. I really don't put much credence to some of the details of these rumours. I've seen no credible source for them whatsoever.

This is the most retarded shit I've ever read. Really Games Workshop? FUCKING REALLY?! The Elves are all joining together?

Yeah, no just shit all over your own stuff. Whatever.

Alleged_Alec:

Thunderous Cacophony:

Alleged_Alec:

That's why I said the rumours. That the end times stuff is happening, sure. However, I don't believe for a second they'll do such radical changes to an established game.

Well, they've already done the sweeping changes to canon (though I think there's a couple books left in the End Times), so stuff like the new God-Emperor is going to stick around. Mechanically, they've already made all the Undead one canon army (Nagash is now baked into vanilla), and they've done books that make all of Chaos is one army, and all the Elves as one army, and though they have not yet announced that those two are going to be vanilla, they've said that if anyone at an official event has one of those books the event has to be played according to those rules, so it seems to be less of a rumour more than the blatantly obvious thing GW is doing. Given that GW just nuked every Human nation besides the Empire and Bretonnia, and those two just made a new alliance, it seems like a reasonable guess to say that they'll be blended, cutting the number of armies down.

I'm sure they might merge something. They're stupid enough to do that. However, they won't do it as stupidly as this. They just released a lot of new kits of Lizardmen and as an army, they're one of the more popular ones. They'd be better off putting Skaven in the Chaos camp, since they're already pretty much Beastmen. Not only that, but adding a new race while cutting one of the old ones is so mindbogglingly stupid I'm going crosseyed just thinking about it.
Further stuff: I'll believe the limited kits. They're money-grabbing dickbags enough to do that sort of shit. As for fucking over the setting: eh, they could. I hope they don't, since the balls of reality is quite stupid and the Old World is a cool setting.

What I think about the factions:
Chaos Core- Okay, back to roots. I'll buy this.
Elves Core- Even if it's currently in-game, I just can't see Darkies and High elves working together.
Human Core- Blegh. Adding 4 books together is just stupid beyond reproach. Dwarves and Ogres don't fit into this at all.
Undead Core- They don't fit together at all imho and if they do go on with this, much of the flavour will be lost.
Orcs and Goblins- Sure.
Skaven- If they go with the insane 6+1, it's moronic to make Skaven a solitary army. They fit in pretty decently with chaos background-wise (being horribly mutated people and whatnot).

So, yeah. I really don't put much credence to some of the details of these rumours. I've seen no credible source for them whatsoever.

Skaven are almost certainly going to be a standalone army; in fact, there's a Skaven book coming out in a few days with a bunch of new HQ choices and Skaven Daemons (as the Horned Rat is getting set up as a full Chaos God in opposition to the others). Getting rid of the Lizardmen would be stupid, but it's literally being said in the End Times books that they got their ass kicked and are currently powering up the Chariots of the Gods to leave the planet, and possibly universe, so them sticking around is increasingly an outside bet. That said, if there's any other "rumours" you would like a source-check on, I'll see if I can dig up something.

The only good thing that the End Times is doing is building in the "alternate universe" escape hatch, so it can be tossed in the trash in a couple years once they've finished the $500 book series.

Why are ditching the lizardmen? I haven't been into warhammer for ages but they where my favorite.

Also, if your gonna get rid of such cool ass race make it so that they died in a cool way, maybe they tryed to stop an never before seen orc waagh or chaos invasion and got wiped out making a last stand. Instead they came up with the worst possible story for it apparently. They got theyr asses kicked by the skaven and then went "Screw you guys, I'm going home!", how lame is that.

Thunderous Cacophony:

Alleged_Alec:

Thunderous Cacophony:

Well, they've already done the sweeping changes to canon (though I think there's a couple books left in the End Times), so stuff like the new God-Emperor is going to stick around. Mechanically, they've already made all the Undead one canon army (Nagash is now baked into vanilla), and they've done books that make all of Chaos is one army, and all the Elves as one army, and though they have not yet announced that those two are going to be vanilla, they've said that if anyone at an official event has one of those books the event has to be played according to those rules, so it seems to be less of a rumour more than the blatantly obvious thing GW is doing. Given that GW just nuked every Human nation besides the Empire and Bretonnia, and those two just made a new alliance, it seems like a reasonable guess to say that they'll be blended, cutting the number of armies down.

I'm sure they might merge something. They're stupid enough to do that. However, they won't do it as stupidly as this. They just released a lot of new kits of Lizardmen and as an army, they're one of the more popular ones. They'd be better off putting Skaven in the Chaos camp, since they're already pretty much Beastmen. Not only that, but adding a new race while cutting one of the old ones is so mindbogglingly stupid I'm going crosseyed just thinking about it.
Further stuff: I'll believe the limited kits. They're money-grabbing dickbags enough to do that sort of shit. As for fucking over the setting: eh, they could. I hope they don't, since the balls of reality is quite stupid and the Old World is a cool setting.

What I think about the factions:
Chaos Core- Okay, back to roots. I'll buy this.
Elves Core- Even if it's currently in-game, I just can't see Darkies and High elves working together.
Human Core- Blegh. Adding 4 books together is just stupid beyond reproach. Dwarves and Ogres don't fit into this at all.
Undead Core- They don't fit together at all imho and if they do go on with this, much of the flavour will be lost.
Orcs and Goblins- Sure.
Skaven- If they go with the insane 6+1, it's moronic to make Skaven a solitary army. They fit in pretty decently with chaos background-wise (being horribly mutated people and whatnot).

So, yeah. I really don't put much credence to some of the details of these rumours. I've seen no credible source for them whatsoever.

Skaven are almost certainly going to be a standalone army; in fact, there's a Skaven book coming out in a few days with a bunch of new HQ choices and Skaven Daemons (as the Horned Rat is getting set up as a full Chaos God in opposition to the others). Getting rid of the Lizardmen would be stupid, but it's literally being said in the End Times books that they got their ass kicked and are currently powering up the Chariots of the Gods to leave the planet, and possibly universe, so them sticking around is increasingly an outside bet. That said, if there's any other "rumours" you would like a source-check on, I'll see if I can dig up something.

The only good thing that the End Times is doing is building in the "alternate universe" escape hatch, so it can be tossed in the trash in a couple years once they've finished the $500 book series.

Okay, apparently I've been out for too long. I stopped playing a bit before End Times started happening due to the players in my local gaming scene being a bunch of power-playing howler monkeys. I can't argue with you on lore, so I'll just stick to my hopes that even Games Workshop can't be this stupid, despite all the evidence pointing towards that fact.

Also: is it a new tactic for GW to make the half life of huge models a week or two by making them incredibly large and having about two thousand long, thin protruding bits?

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