A Shadowy New Villain Menaces Agent Carter

A Shadowy New Villain Menaces Agent Carter

"Time and Tide" isn't any less about Peggy Carter throwing punches, but it does take a break from fight scenes to build up the world it inhabits.

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Two weeks in and the ratings have plunged to equal the lowest rated episode of AoS.

And more proof that the US broadcast TV audience has no taste with this getting lower ratings than Shark Tank ergh.

Did anyone else get a sort of 'reality tv' vibe from the drama in Peggy's Hotel?

"This week, one of the girls is caught violating the rules. So, she'll have to PACK HER BAGS.

Who will be last girl standing left in... The Hotel?"

Isn't it too early for HYDRA to be in the SSR? I thought that wasn't established until SHIELD proper was founded and the likes of Zola were brought in under Operation Paperclip (or equivalent).

Not sure how the hit-man being a women will be a reveal. Seeing as you can clearly see her heals as she walks back to her getaway car. Loving things so far still

Chris Ingersoll:
Isn't it too early for HYDRA to be in the SSR? I thought that wasn't established until SHIELD proper was founded and the likes of Zola were brought in under Operation Paperclip (or equivalent).

SHIELD is to the SSR what the CIA is to the OSS, so they're pretty much one and the same outside of a more blatant military structure before it's reform. Given the fact that it's in 1946 Paperclip has already happened, so it is possible there are one or two within the ranks.

I liked this episode better than the previous ones. The show was in need of some world building, and at least now they tried to portrait other characters other than "those nice to Carter" as competent...

I have also shared the idea that one of the members of Leviathan ends up being an hypercompetent woman (russian soldiers during WW2 are not unheard of) to counterbalance Carter, but I think they showed the hit-men to be men (at least, their silhouettes were, they never showed their faces)

And I would be disappointed if the hotel's matron ends up being a supervillain. It is part of that "Small World" syndrome that comics have were everyone related to the protagonist ends up with a secret identity.

I guess now we might know what the random ballerina's in the Age of Ultron trailer are all about.

Maybe its just me, but I thought the hit man was that mute guy with the mustache? He didn't seem to die in the last episode; when they showed the milk truck sinking into the water, he had disappeared from the roof. Which tells me he's still alive and at large. Of course, since we didn't get a look at the face of the hitman...

I dunno, I just hadn't considered it was a different person before now. Interesting.

MY question, though, is what's the canon on the Agent Carter One Shot? Because it would seem to contradict with this series, unless for some reason SHIELD isn't founded at the end of this. Which would be a shame, I liked that they seemed to be going for ZODIAC with the One Shot...

I'm not understanding the critical acclaim for this show. Beyond the topical spotlight on sexism, it really isn't offering much. Agents of Shield at least provides compelling backstory to what goes on in the Marvel films, but I wasn't aware that anybody was asking for more stories from just after WWII. These characters are nowhere near as interesting as the Agents of Shield or the main cast from the films, and the humor is almost nonexistent.

Also, I'm pretty bothered that the probable love interest for Carter is played by the same guy who showed up as a police officer in Avengers. Even in minor roles, actors shouldn't play multiple unrelated roles within the same series. Game of Thrones and The Raid are two other recent offenders.

P-89 Scorpion:
Two weeks in and the ratings have plunged to equal the lowest rated episode of AoS.

And more proof that the US broadcast TV audience has no taste with this getting lower ratings than Shark Tank ergh.

Really? God damnit. Most people dont know good TV when it hits them in the face. Agent Carter is great. I want moar :|

Yojoo:
I'm not understanding the critical acclaim for this show. Beyond the topical spotlight on sexism, it really isn't offering much. Agents of Shield at least provides compelling backstory to what goes on in the Marvel films, but I wasn't aware that anybody was asking for more stories from just after WWII. These characters are nowhere near as interesting as the Agents of Shield or the main cast from the films, and the humor is almost nonexistent.

Also, I'm pretty bothered that the probable love interest for Carter is played by the same guy who showed up as a police officer in Avengers. Even in minor roles, actors shouldn't play multiple unrelated roles within the same series. Game of Thrones and The Raid are two other recent offenders.

Really? I might just be taken with the relatively fresh setting of agent carter, but to me even Agent Carters robe has more personality than most people in Agents of shield. I have to struggle to get through the AoS episodes. Its been getting better for sure, but its been pretty fucking meh. Also the cast in Carter is a lot better imo. AoS looks WAY too modely.

Yojoo:
I'm not understanding the critical acclaim for this show. Beyond the topical spotlight on sexism, it really isn't offering much. Agents of Shield at least provides compelling backstory to what goes on in the Marvel films, but I wasn't aware that anybody was asking for more stories from just after WWII. These characters are nowhere near as interesting as the Agents of Shield or the main cast from the films, and the humor is almost nonexistent.

Also, I'm pretty bothered that the probable love interest for Carter is played by the same guy who showed up as a police officer in Avengers. Even in minor roles, actors shouldn't play multiple unrelated roles within the same series. Game of Thrones and The Raid are two other recent offenders.

Buddy of mine warns me this show is super dull. I'm wondering if I should be checking it out. I try to check out any super hero comic book related IP but this just seems so dull.

I can forgive all sorts of sins. Dullness isn't one of them.

Gorfias:

Buddy of mine warns me this show is super dull. I'm wondering if I should be checking it out. I try to check out any super hero comic book related IP but this just seems so dull.

I can forgive all sorts of sins. Dullness isn't one of them.

Then you should definitely give this a pass unless the rest of the series miraculously turns out to be good. This show is unbelievably dull. When the mini series was announced I figured it would be a non-stop ride of action and intrigue considering they only have 8 episodes to work with. I couldn't have been more wrong.

I don't necessarily mind the lack of action, as at it's heart this show is basically a spy-thriller. Unfortunately our heroes are just so incredibly inefficient at actually solving the mystery there is no "thrill" to be found. We are three episodes in to the "Who stole Howard's gizmos?" mystery and all that our protagonists have figured out is "Yep, someone definitely stole Howard's stuff!" Oh, and a few dead villainous henchmen nobodies, all of whom were killed by other villainous henchmen nobodies. I fully expect a few big reveals in the next few episodes. The question is: Will anyone care at that point?

And of course there is the elephant in the room. The portrayal of the supposedly rampant misogyny "in those days". Now I am not opposed to exploring that issue, as it did exist and is very relevant to what is going on. Carter, and women in general got a taste of having been in important positions as well as obtaining purpose and value in a society that typically limited them to menial roles. I think that is an awesome thing to explore. However the portrayal of the average male is this show is downright appalling. Every man, with the exception of the crippled war vet and the overly polite British butler, is portrayed as abusive, incompetent, rude, mean spirited, and psychopathic. Did Anita Sarkessian get a writing job I don't know about? There is no way in hell a major network would allow this level of stereotyping on a broadcast channel if it were about any other group. I mean imagine if a show portrayed blacks or jews with that level of stereotyping; there would be heads rolling at the next board meeting.

Hopefully things will pick up once the Howling Commandos show up (who I desperately hope is being led by a two-eyed Nick Fury, but I doubt it), and we dig deeper into the mystery. In the meantime though we are stuck with a show that is both boring and insulting. Not to mention the real cardinal sin of the show, having so little meaningful tie-in to the MCU (so far).

I'm feeling like Lyndsy Fonseca is going to be both the assassin and Hydra. Mainly because she's Lyndsy Fonseca. You don't hire an actress with stage combat experience for a super hero show and not have her kick some ass. Exact same thing I thought when Summer Glau showed up on Arrow. At the very least, she'll end up a future female agent of shield.

I do find the dismissal of her as just Captain America's boyfriend a tad off. Even given the sexism of the era, I think there are enough powerful and popular male military figures, from the howling Commandos to Tommy Lee Jones's character who would have vouched for her, if only during whatever interview process she was involved in.

I think the female slice of life stuff is definitely a little too much, mainly because of too little context. Yes, we see the girl kicked out of the Griffith for having her boyfriend over. But we haven't really been given a sign as to what things in the 40s were preventing her from just getting a different place or moving in with her boyfriend. Yes, I know there were real world things that would have made that difficult, but we haven't really been shown them, which massively lessens the impact of those scenes. It's hard to be too concerned if we are just left with a vague feeling that a girl we just met needs to go get a new apartment tomorrow. While I don't want a documentary on women's lives in the era as the show, if they are going to stress it, they need to do a better job showing us the hazards.

The actual level of sexism among returning vets seems pretty good. For those interested, I'd recommend Rocket Girl by George Morgan. It's a biography of a woman scientist who worked in munitions during the war, but was the only one kept on when they transitioned to early space program work. It's an interesting read, has some good parallels to Carter, and has some great research/interviews on the rather astounding amount of sexism that came along when many G.I.s came home, discovered women had been doing "guy jobs" quite well and wanted them the hell out of there.

I'm loving this show. Knew the SSR guy was dead the second the thug said the girl was British, because he was going to be able to put two and two together.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who is worried about Carter's friend. It would be nice if it turns out that she really is just trying to be friendly, but she is trying too hard and this is Marvel.

Last week someone told me that Leviathan is basically the Soviet version of HYDRA in the comments and I see that Bob has gone with that as well. Okay then.

I'm not entirely sold that the hitman is a woman, mainly because of how the SSR guy reacted. I suppose her face could have been shrouded in shadow, but I just get the feeling that he would have acted a little differently once he saw it was a woman. Not any more polite mind you, but picked his words differently.

Looking forward to the next episode.

Phantom typewriters, shadowy background figures in suits and gray hats...we're sure this isn't actually a Fringe prequel? Totally sure?

Anyway, I'm hopeful for the Winter Soldier and/or Black Widow tie-in with Leviathan. Seems like too good of an opportunity to miss, with a Soviet enemy in a time where at least their respective programs, if not those particular operatives themselves, would have been active.

Tie-ins aside, I've been enjoying the show so far. Moreso the opener than yesterday's episode, but that might just be a function of watching the former on TV and the latter on my laptop - one viewing experience is naturally more impressive than the other. Looking forward to the next episode. Not particularly looking forward to waiting two weeks to watch it...guess that's the price paid for a double-length premier.

I don't have much desire to try to play the "who's not who they say they are" spy game with the side characters. If I guess wrong, I'll just be annoyed I misread things/annoyed that the version of events in my head wasn't going to play out, and if I guess right - like when Skye's deal was telegraphed at least three or four episodes before the reveal - it'll just take away from the surprise of the moment. So I'll just try to take things as they are (although yes, the new tenant is...conspicuous) and enjoy whatever twists get thrown at me.

SmapdyAge8:

And of course there is the elephant in the room. The portrayal of the supposedly rampant misogyny "in those days". Now I am not opposed to exploring that issue, as it did exist and is very relevant to what is going on. Carter, and women in general got a taste of having been in important positions as well as obtaining purpose and value in a society that typically limited them to menial roles. I think that is an awesome thing to explore. However the portrayal of the average male is this show is downright appalling. Every man, with the exception of the crippled war vet and the overly polite British butler, is portrayed as abusive, incompetent, rude, mean spirited, and psychopathic. Did Anita Sarkessian get a writing job I don't know about? There is no way in hell a major network would allow this level of stereotyping on a broadcast channel if it were about any other group. I mean imagine if a show portrayed blacks or jews with that level of stereotyping; there would be heads rolling at the next board meeting.

Hopefully things will pick up once the Howling Commandos show up (who I desperately hope is being led by a two-eyed Nick Fury, but I doubt it), and we dig deeper into the mystery. In the meantime though we are stuck with a show that is both boring and insulting. Not to mention the real cardinal sin of the show, having so little meaningful tie-in to the MCU (so far).

Does the concept of "false equivalence" mean anything to you?

Belaam:
I do find the dismissal of her as just Captain America's boyfriend a tad off. Even given the sexism of the era, I think there are enough powerful and popular male military figures, from the howling Commandos to Tommy Lee Jones's character who would have vouched for her, if only during whatever interview process she was involved in.

Remember from the one-shot, it's not the bigwigs who have dismissed her, afterall, they gave her a position in the SSR. It's the mid-level office drones who think she's being done a favour out of pity. You know the type... "Who'd you blow to get this job?" Look at the commentary about "taking my shift". He's pissed because he feels he's doing her a favour, and she threw it back in his face. You can see the words forming in his head "what an ungrateful b..."

That was Jarvis' point. Her immediate superiors/co-workers wouldn't be pleased she found the weapons, they'd be pissed that she demonstrated that they were either a) idiots who couldn't keep up with a woman, or b) were idiots for not utilizing such an obviously talented resource, and c) idiots who couldn't keep control of their staff. Either way they are embarrassed in front of their bosses. So they'd find a way to twist it around, much like in any office power struggle.

I think the female slice of life stuff is definitely a little too much, mainly because of too little context. Yes, we see the girl kicked out of the Griffith for having her boyfriend over. But we haven't really been given a sign as to what things in the 40s were preventing her from just getting a different place or moving in with her boyfriend. Yes, I know there were real world things that would have made that difficult, but we haven't really been shown them, which massively lessens the impact of those scenes. It's hard to be too concerned if we are just left with a vague feeling that a girl we just met needs to go get a new apartment tomorrow. While I don't want a documentary on women's lives in the era as the show, if they are going to stress it, they need to do a better job showing us the hazards.

It was a quick slice, partly to remind us that girls didn't just face judgement from men, but also from women, but mainly to give them an excuse to a) show the matron is strict, b) show that Angie is not afraid of the matron for some reason, and c) explain why we're introducing a new female character. Carter is living there, so I'm sure we'll get plenty of opportunities to explore more about the idea of a "purity walled garden" they've got going there.

tzimize:

Yojoo:
I'm not understanding the critical acclaim for this show. Beyond the topical spotlight on sexism, it really isn't offering much. Agents of Shield at least provides compelling backstory to what goes on in the Marvel films, but I wasn't aware that anybody was asking for more stories from just after WWII. These characters are nowhere near as interesting as the Agents of Shield or the main cast from the films, and the humor is almost nonexistent.

Also, I'm pretty bothered that the probable love interest for Carter is played by the same guy who showed up as a police officer in Avengers. Even in minor roles, actors shouldn't play multiple unrelated roles within the same series. Game of Thrones and The Raid are two other recent offenders.

Really? I might just be taken with the relatively fresh setting of agent carter, but to me even Agent Carters robe has more personality than most people in Agents of shield. I have to struggle to get through the AoS episodes. Its been getting better for sure, but its been pretty fucking meh. Also the cast in Carter is a lot better imo. AoS looks WAY too modely.

My issue with Carter as a character is that she's very one-note. She's an ass-kicking Brit who is under-appreciated by her peers and immediate supervisors, and that's about it. There's barely been any meaningful character development for her. We know that she's not quite over the Captain (though the voice-over in the introduction of this episode identifying him as the "love of her life" was a bit much), and that she blames herself for people close to her dying. There's just nothing new or interesting about her.

Jarvis? Well, his charge of treason for trying to rescue his Jewish love from the Nazis is a nice touch, but suffered heavily in my eyes from the whole "telling instead of showing" thing. We haven't even met the wife yet. It just didn't do the trick for me. Otherwise, he's a one-dimensional character seemingly existing solely for Carter to have a confidant. He doesn't kick ass and he doesn't crack wise, so I fail to see the appeal. And I'm also bummed that the role wasn't taken by Paul Bettany (the voice of Tony Stark's JARVIS).

Overall, the show so far feels like if Agents of Shield starred good-guy Ward and co-starred May exclusively as the pilot of the Bus, without the rest of the cast.

Yojoo:

tzimize:

Yojoo:
I'm not understanding the critical acclaim for this show. Beyond the topical spotlight on sexism, it really isn't offering much. Agents of Shield at least provides compelling backstory to what goes on in the Marvel films, but I wasn't aware that anybody was asking for more stories from just after WWII. These characters are nowhere near as interesting as the Agents of Shield or the main cast from the films, and the humor is almost nonexistent.

Also, I'm pretty bothered that the probable love interest for Carter is played by the same guy who showed up as a police officer in Avengers. Even in minor roles, actors shouldn't play multiple unrelated roles within the same series. Game of Thrones and The Raid are two other recent offenders.

Really? I might just be taken with the relatively fresh setting of agent carter, but to me even Agent Carters robe has more personality than most people in Agents of shield. I have to struggle to get through the AoS episodes. Its been getting better for sure, but its been pretty fucking meh. Also the cast in Carter is a lot better imo. AoS looks WAY too modely.

My issue with Carter as a character is that she's very one-note. She's an ass-kicking Brit who is under-appreciated by her peers and immediate supervisors, and that's about it. There's barely been any meaningful character development for her. We know that she's not quite over the Captain (though the voice-over in the introduction of this episode identifying him as the "love of her life" was a bit much), and that she blames herself for people close to her dying. There's just nothing new or interesting about her.

Jarvis? Well, his charge of treason for trying to rescue his Jewish love from the Nazis is a nice touch, but suffered heavily in my eyes from the whole "telling instead of showing" thing. We haven't even met the wife yet. It just didn't do the trick for me. Otherwise, he's a one-dimensional character seemingly existing solely for Carter to have a confidant. He doesn't kick ass and he doesn't crack wise, so I fail to see the appeal. And I'm also bummed that the role wasn't taken by Paul Bettany (the voice of Tony Stark's JARVIS).

Overall, the show so far feels like if Agents of Shield starred good-guy Ward and co-starred May exclusively as the pilot of the Bus, without the rest of the cast.

Hmh. I disagree. I found the 3rd episode to be very good. And I love the way Carter has to balance her job with her mission. And how she has to make the choice to appear useless to protect herself and Jarvis. It must hurt especially much considering her situation as well (woman at that time etc).

Plus I love having a female lead. May in AoS is extremely one note, and has one face. Carter at least have a specter of emotions. But, to each his own I guess :)

Silverspetz:

Does the concept of "false equivalence" mean anything to you?

Yes, though what is your point? You did a massive quote but never specified what you were referring too.

SmapdyAge8:
In the meantime though we are stuck with a show that is both boring and insulting. Not to mention the real cardinal sin of the show, having so little meaningful tie-in to the MCU (so far).

Very scary. I think I'll stick to American Horror Story, thanks!!!!!

ITMT, I can't wait for the Netflix original series. I'm so hoping we can have some fun.

SmapdyAge8:

Silverspetz:

Does the concept of "false equivalence" mean anything to you?

Yes, though what is your point? You did a massive quote but never specified what you were referring too.

You made a big deal about how the show is "stereotyping" white males and compared it to stereotyping ACTUAL minority groups like blacks or Jews. That is a false equivalence. "Reverse" racism or sexism isn't really a thing you know. Society at large is never going to punish someone for being white or male, but it CONSTANTLY punishes people for being female or belonging to an ethnic minority. In other words, stop pretending that this show is somehow "insulting" because it brings up the rampant misogyny in the forties. (That's another thing BTW, there is nothing "supposed" about how women were treated back then)

Bwhahahaha. I can't tell if this is a serious reply or a clever trolling attempt. I think I'll go check my white CIS male privilege now.

MovieBob:
the show's intriguing, still-emerging mythos.

Super boring back story, imho. This series is SUCH a dissapointment. Had high hopes man... once.

"give us our first major character death". Lol! ANYONE who didn't just see it can remember that guy's name? I do; it was Random Archetype Asshole #3; he was my FAVOURITE!!!! :'(

"probably Angie (Lyndsy Fonseca) the automat waitress whose been trying to be Peggy's BFF since episode one"
More than likely, but I am not going to find out...

Adieu! Don't be sad for me, I'll be very happy with Agents of SHIELD, Arrow and The Flash etc.

Silverspetz:

SmapdyAge8:

Silverspetz:

Does the concept of "false equivalence" mean anything to you?

Yes, though what is your point? You did a massive quote but never specified what you were referring too.

You made a big deal about how the show is "stereotyping" white males and compared it to stereotyping ACTUAL minority groups like blacks or Jews. That is a false equivalence. "Reverse" racism or sexism isn't really a thing you know. Society at large is never going to punish someone for being white or male, but it CONSTANTLY punishes people for being female or belonging to an ethnic minority. In other words, stop pretending that this show is somehow "insulting" because it brings up the rampant misogyny in the forties. (That's another thing BTW, there is nothing "supposed" about how women were treated back then)

Okay. Think carefully about what you just said and try to find out what the problem with that statement is.

I actually agree that in Agent Carter there is no problem with the depiction of males (at least not yet, these are 3 episodes of a tv show, there is much time to explore the majority of characters), but you are doing yourself no favour in bringing sexism and racism together. You are hurting the argument much more than you help it.

I really like the show, as far as I can tell it gives a relatively accurate depiction of the 50s (or post-war-era). Carter, Jarvis and some other characters have far more personality than the characters in Agents of Shield.

the silence:

Silverspetz:

SmapdyAge8:

Yes, though what is your point? You did a massive quote but never specified what you were referring too.

You made a big deal about how the show is "stereotyping" white males and compared it to stereotyping ACTUAL minority groups like blacks or Jews. That is a false equivalence. "Reverse" racism or sexism isn't really a thing you know. Society at large is never going to punish someone for being white or male, but it CONSTANTLY punishes people for being female or belonging to an ethnic minority. In other words, stop pretending that this show is somehow "insulting" because it brings up the rampant misogyny in the forties. (That's another thing BTW, there is nothing "supposed" about how women were treated back then)

Okay. Think carefully about what you just said and try to find out what the problem with that statement is.

I actually agree that in Agent Carter there is no problem with the depiction of males (at least not yet, these are 3 episodes of a tv show, there is much time to explore the majority of characters), but you are doing yourself no favour in bringing sexism and racism together. You are hurting the argument much more than you help it.

I really like the show, as far as I can tell it gives a relatively accurate depiction of the 50s (or post-war-era). Carter, Jarvis and some other characters have far more personality than the characters in Agents of Shield.

I'm not the one who was "bringing racism and sexism together" buddy. That would be the other guy when he compared portraying the way men ACTUALLY treated women in the forties in a TV-show to the way minority groups have been negatively portrayed since forever.

 

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