The Best and Worst of Fate Reforged

The Best and Worst of Fate Reforged

Fate Reforged pre-release events start Friday at midnight. Here's where we stand on the best and worst cards of the set.

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A note about Daghatar the Adamant, he doesnt say you have to be controlling the creatures that you take counters from. So considering the abundance of incidental counters in the set, his ability might be a lot better than a 0 net gain.

Re Soulflayer: Prophetic Flamespeaker exists.

Re Daghatar: You realize he can target enemy creatures too, right? He doesn't just move +1/+1 counters for 3 mana, he steals +1/+1 counters for 3 mana each.

Re Dark Deal: Whelming Wave is a thing too.

Re Crucible of the Spirit Dragon: I just want to point out the third set in the block is called "Dragons of Tarkir". It's a hold-over, that has to exist now in this time period (because it doesn't later), but doesn't actually do anything yet. Just like another card in the set, Renowned Weaponsmith, who tutors for a card that doesn't yet exist.

Alin Dobrovolschi:
A note about Daghatar the Adamant, he doesnt say you have to be controlling the creatures that you take counters from. So considering the abundance of incidental counters in the set, his ability might be a lot better than a 0 net gain.

and

2xDouble:
Re Soulflayer: Prophetic Flamespeaker exists.

Re Daghatar: You realize he can target enemy creatures too, right? He doesn't just move +1/+1 counters for 3 mana, he steals +1/+1 counters for 3 mana each.

Re Dark Deal: Whelming Wave is a thing too.

Re Crucible of the Spirit Dragon: I just want to point out the third set in the block is called "Dragons of Tarkir". It's a hold-over, that has to exist now in this time period (because it doesn't later), but doesn't actually do anything yet. Just like another card in the set, Renowned Weaponsmith, who tutors for a card that doesn't yet exist.

Regarding Daghatar, full disclosure: I didn't notice the lack of restriction.

I'll concede that this makes Daghatar *way* better than I originally thought, though his potential value is still super situational. Not sure what should take his place, but I'll readily admit that sans restriction, he probably doesn't warrant the smack talking I did in this article. :D

As to the Crucible of the Spirit Dragon, I'm not holding my breath, but if the next set is truly a cavalcade of dragon subtypes, then it might get boosted. From this set's dragon options, though, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

2xDouble:
Re Soulflayer: Prophetic Flamespeaker exists.

Re Daghatar: You realize he can target enemy creatures too, right? He doesn't just move +1/+1 counters for 3 mana, he steals +1/+1 counters for 3 mana each.

Re Dark Deal: Whelming Wave is a thing too.

Re Crucible of the Spirit Dragon: I just want to point out the third set in the block is called "Dragons of Tarkir". It's a hold-over, that has to exist now in this time period (because it doesn't later), but doesn't actually do anything yet. Just like another card in the set, Renowned Weaponsmith, who tutors for a card that doesn't yet exist.

Dark Deal is a terrible card. Sure, hypothetically you can creatte a combo to manipulate it, like bouncing the board and casting it as some sort of mill strategy, but that's true of most wonky magic cards, it doesn't make them good, it means you're jumping through hoops to do a subpar combo instead of winning the game efficiently. Crucible of the Spirit Dragon will remain bad even in Dragons of Tarkir because it's so inefficient - every time you store mana, you're effectively paying 2 mana now for 1 down the road (because you're tapping the crucible for the effect instead of mana), so you're losing both time and quantity, and then, when you want to spend it, you effectively paying 1. It's a mana sink that will never pay for itself, or be fast or efficient enough to be worth it. If 5-colour dragons are a thing in the future, you'll see decks running 5 sets of tri-lands before you see this.

As for what I think is also good, most of the legendary dragons look really good on their own, and may well get ridiculous once Dragons of Tarkir is announced (as will Crux of Fate) - Ojutai is the only one who doesn't look worth it. Brutal Hordechief and Monastery Mentor are ridiculous cards, but they're mythic. The uncommon cycle of creatures who benefit from having other clan colors around them look really good, and I want to try out Valorous Stance in as many decks as I can.

All I really want from this set is Ugin, but the dragons might be fun in a Scion EDH deck. Other than that, this set's alright I guess. I was a little disappointed that there aren't any wedge cards, but hybrids are usually better anyway.

Mardu got Dash, Abzan got Bolster, I'm curious what the other new Khan mechanics will be in the last set or they will be just get completely overshadowed by dragons.

Dark Deal isn't necessarily terrible. It's a wacky card that can work fantastically in niche decks, like Liliana's Caress decks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205035). Or Underworld Dreams decks (Example: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/161543-advise-on-draw-damage-red-black-deck).

Encaen:

As to the Crucible of the Spirit Dragon, I'm not holding my breath, but if the next set is truly a cavalcade of dragon subtypes, then it might get boosted. From this set's dragon options, though, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

Crucible not being Legendary intrigues me... it opens up possibilities for off-color shenanigans with Kruphix and his followers in a Simic or Temur dragons deck... Kruphix, God of Dragons, you might say. (Although, if you have Kruphix and Prophet and Courser up, you're pretty much winning anyway...). That's not to say that Crucible of the Spirit Dragon is good, only that there is good to be had. It'll likely never beat Green Devotion or Abzan Aggro though...

I'm more surprised he said Taigam's Scheming was bad... That card is AMAZING. It's a 2 mana for a Scry 5... BUT BETTER.

Why Scry forces you to put unwated cards on the bottom of your library, where they are basically dead, Taigam's Scheming allows you put them in your graveyard, where they can power Delve or just get recurred.

Planning your next 3-5 turns ahead of time is awesome. Won me quite a few games...

Encaen:
"Dragonscale General Bolsters every single turn, including the turn he comes down, so he actually has a fairly immediate impact on the game."

She, actually. May not be as obvious on the regular artwork as the Intro Pack promo, but that's how it is. :D

She was my prerelease promo today and I had a lot of fun bolstering my forces with her, even though she never had the chance to go higher than Bolster 3. She was definitely one of my most useful cards, along with Sage's Reverie, Lightform, Grim Contest and Abzan Guide/Armament Corps from Khans.

All I can think about when I see Warden of the First Tree is how much fun that would be in a green black Golgari deck with a Corpsejack Menace or two on the battlefield. I know it's one of those things that sounds a lot better in my mind than in practice, but boy does a 13/13 (potentially up to 83/83 with four Corpsejack Menaces on the battle field, as each one doubles the previous doubling) with trample and lifelink for 12 sounds awfully attractive.

Honestly, I don't think Great-Horn Krushok and Siege Rhino can be compared favourably. One is a vanilla common, which is a staple in pretty much every set. The other is a rare - and thus likely a one-off - that was probably featured in a handful of top-tier builds in Wizards' articles (Perilous Research, Top Decks, et cetera). I feel it makes sense to say that not every card is designed to be perfect.

On the subject of Prereleases, I lost every game I played. Four rounds, four 0-2 demolitions. I probably had the worst pool anyone had seen all day. Another guy at my table opened two Shamans of the Great Hunt in the same pack (one foil), while I ended up with a pile that lacked any form of cohesion whatsoever.

I did, however, trade for a Prophet of Kruphix to finish my Surrak EDH deck. So it wasn't a complete waste of my day.

The Deadpool:
I'm more surprised he said Taigam's Scheming was bad... That card is AMAZING. It's a 2 mana for a Scry 5... BUT BETTER.

Why Scry forces you to put unwated cards on the bottom of your library, where they are basically dead, Taigam's Scheming allows you put them in your graveyard, where they can power Delve or just get recurred.

Planning your next 3-5 turns ahead of time is awesome. Won me quite a few games...

Sorry, Taigam's Scheming is terrible. Setting up your draw steps is not worth a card if it's not replacing itself. You're down a resource now and that's not something to be taken lightly. The only decks I think it's somewhat passable in are combo where you care less about the raw resources since your 2-3 card combo will win the game by itself.

Lemmibl:
Dark Deal isn't necessarily terrible. It's a wacky card that can work fantastically in niche decks, like Liliana's Caress decks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205035). Or Underworld Dreams decks (Example: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/161543-advise-on-draw-damage-red-black-deck).

What's great about Magic is that even the worst card can find a home, but that doesn't make it good. The problem with Liliana's Caress discard is you have to jump through these hoops of having them have cards, instead of just playing the 8-Rack version, which only wants to empty their hand.


My opinionated 2 cents.

In standard you can play turn 2 waste not into turn 3 dark deal and get a bunch of triggers off of waste not, not really good or reliable but a fun casual combo.

Also turn 2 spirit of the labyrinth into turn 3 dark deal makes you discard your hand draw 0 cards and your opponent discards their hand and draws 1 card. terrible combo but its funny.

Lemmibl:
Dark Deal isn't necessarily terrible. It's a wacky card that can work fantastically in niche decks, like Liliana's Caress decks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205035). Or Underworld Dreams decks (Example: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/161543-advise-on-draw-damage-red-black-deck).

What's great about Magic is that even the worst card can find a home, but that doesn't make it good. The problem with Liliana's Caress discard is you have to jump through these hoops of having them have cards, instead of just playing the 8-Rack version, which only wants to empty their hand.


My opinionated 2 cents.[/quote]

If you want to keep it in standard, turn 2 waste not into turn 3 dark deal is probably 4-5 triggers, if not more against the slower midrange or control decks. Play it with ashiok and the one mana discard spells and they better hope they top deck well.

Hey, you know what else is neat about Frost Walker? Bolster doesn't target.

about warden, I think if fleecemane and that wolf showed anything a turn 2 3/3 in G/W is good enough warden can even be attacking(in exchange for your turn 1 mana and a extra turn on the field where it can get killed by early burn), also with the release of fate there will be 2, 2mana instant speed spells in white that can give a creature indestructable and 1 2 mana instant speed card in green that can give a creature indestructable allowing for protection and good trades when blocking. GW also has soom powerful planeswalkers for extra support including ajani mentor of heroes. Maybe next to fleecemane or as a fleecemane alt it could find a place in a deck.

Uhhh....no, #notallbolstercards.

Abzan Advantage, for instance, is *AWFUL*.

On occasion, you might side it in. (there are not a enough enchantments in the format that destroying one of their choice is relevant) But as a combat trick, it virtually never saves the creature you want. Battlegrowth was not exactly tearing up limited formats back in the day. Burst of strength is a strictly better combat trick in 3 different ways, and that was a card you were sad to have as a 23rd card.

Frankly, most of the bolster cards are probably only ok in draft, other than the general and angelina. Well, ok, and the dragon, of course.

Dhagatar, on the other hand, would be a limited bomb even if you couldn't steal from your opponent. It might read as "zero sum" in that circumstance, but it isn't. If I can move one counter, blocking profitably becomes difficult for my opponent. If I can move 2, it becomes damn near impossible.

Warden is a definate limited bomb, and I remain to be convinced it isn't going to see constructed play. I agree it is not as good as the hype, but how not as good is a more complex equation.

Pre-Release Update:

Did the 2-Headed Giant pre-release on Sunday with my wife.

Opened Ugin in the first FRF pack we opened. Cast him once during match 3. He got countered. Sadface.

Still went 3-1, though!

Mob Rule was solely responsible for two of our three wins. That card is nuts in 2HG!

One of our prize packs had Flooded Strand AND Soulfire Grandmaster. That was a good pack. :D

How'd everybody else fare this weekend?

RE: Dark Deal. People are onto something with the Waste Not and Liliana's Caress business. I think this card could be great if you combine one or both of those with Fascination, too.

RE: Daghatar the Adamant. First thing I thought of was Hardened Scales. If you have more than one of those out on the battlefield, creatures could get super strong super fast.

RE: Flamerush Rider. This is what I'm really interested in, and I need someone to clarify the rules for me on this one. What if you have two of these, and they each make a copy of the other. Would that put effectively let you copy two more attacking creatures, making an infinite combo? It sounds so simple and easy that I feel like Wizards wouldn't overlook something like this, but please. Enlighten me.

xTwinkiesx:
RE: Flamerush Rider. This is what I'm really interested in, and I need someone to clarify the rules for me on this one. What if you have two of these, and they each make a copy of the other. Would that put effectively let you copy two more attacking creatures, making an infinite combo? It sounds so simple and easy that I feel like Wizards wouldn't overlook something like this, but please. Enlighten me.

Sadly it doesn't work, Flamerush Rider's ability triggers when it's declared as an attacker. When something is put into the battlefield "tapped and attacking" it's skipping the declare attackers step. So two Flamerush Rider, copying each other would only get you two Flamerush Rider and two Flamerush Rider tokens attacking since the tokens don't trigger to make additional tokens.

Slycne:

xTwinkiesx:
RE: Flamerush Rider. This is what I'm really interested in, and I need someone to clarify the rules for me on this one. What if you have two of these, and they each make a copy of the other. Would that put effectively let you copy two more attacking creatures, making an infinite combo? It sounds so simple and easy that I feel like Wizards wouldn't overlook something like this, but please. Enlighten me.

Sadly it doesn't work, Flamerush Rider's ability triggers when it's declared as an attacker. When something is put into the battlefield "tapped and attacking" it's skipping the declare attackers step. So two Flamerush Rider, copying each other would only get you two Flamerush Rider and two Flamerush Rider tokens attacking since the tokens don't trigger to make additional tokens.

This is exactly correct. It's also one of the two reasons why copying one of the rare dragons is a bad idea; it doesn't count as an attacking dragon and trigger those for exactly that rule.

(It's also a bad idea because the dragons are, well, legendary and so one of them dies immediately. I recommend the token :))

I did terribly at my prerelease, so many misplays but at least I pulled some dece rares. Playing with manifest is fun but sometimes I needed the mana instead of getting a 2/2 that can never be turned up. Oh well.

2xDouble:

Re Dark Deal: Whelming Wave is a thing too.

xTwinkiesx:
RE: Dark Deal. People are onto something with the Waste Not and Liliana's Caress business. I think this card could be great if you combine one or both of those with Fascination, too.

Stop it, you're tempting to do horrible things. I love me some Waste Not and ridiculous combos are my jam.

Slycne:

Sorry, Taigam's Scheming is terrible. Setting up your draw steps is not worth a card if it's not replacing itself. You're down a resource now and that's not something to be taken lightly. The only decks I think it's somewhat passable in are combo where you care less about the raw resources since your 2-3 card combo will win the game by itself.

Is Seething Song terrible because it puts you down a card? (Hint: It's banned in modern.) Because in the context of a delve deck, Taigam's Scheming nets twice as much mana as seething song (unless you feel like setting the top of your deck.)

Is entomb terrible because it puts you down a card? It isn't, because sometimes dropping cards in your graveyard is even better than drawing them. Taigam's Scheming does that.

I'm not saying the card's amazing, but you're looking at it like it's a draw spell that doesn't draw, and it isn't that. It's a different utility than raw card advantage, although based on your opinion of Dark Deal, that seems to be the only thing you care about.

tstorm823:
Is Seething Song terrible because it puts you down a card? (Hint: It's banned in modern.) Because in the context of a delve deck, Taigam's Scheming nets twice as much mana as seething song (unless you feel like setting the top of your deck.)

Is entomb terrible because it puts you down a card? It isn't, because sometimes dropping cards in your graveyard is even better than drawing them. Taigam's Scheming does that.

I'm not saying the card's amazing, but you're looking at it like it's a draw spell that doesn't draw, and it isn't that. It's a different utility than raw card advantage, although based on your opinion of Dark Deal, that seems to be the only thing you care about.

Sure, but those cards fall in to exactly what I said about Taigam's Scheming. Seething Song isn't banned because is let's you ramp out something quickly and fire off a bunch of Ball Lightnings. It's banned because it makes the Modern Storm combo too consistent. In the same way you wouldn't want to play Taigam's Scheming just for delve, there are better cards for dumping things into your graveyard.

One of the great aspects of Magic is that any card can be good in the right circumstances, I just don't think those circumstances exist nearly enough for Taigam's Scheming.

Slycne:

Sure, but those cards fall in to exactly what I said about Taigam's Scheming. Seething Song isn't banned because is let's you ramp out something quickly and fire off a bunch of Ball Lightnings. It's banned because it makes the Modern Storm combo too consistent. In the same way you wouldn't want to play Taigam's Scheming just for delve, there are better cards for dumping things into your graveyard.

One of the great aspects of Magic is that any card can be good in the right circumstances, I just don't think those circumstances exist nearly enough for Taigam's Scheming.

In a Khans Khans Fate Reforged draft, I'm not sure there is anything better at dumping cards in graveyard. I'm ok spending turn two digging to the cards that actually win the game while simultaneously churning out a turn 3 5/5 zombie fish. I spent my prerelease using rakshasa's secrets to churn out my zombie fish and it worked out surprisingly well.

I think terrible is the wrong way to describe a card with definite value in limited, the format that dictates the most design choices.

tstorm823:
In a Khans Khans Fate Reforged draft, I'm not sure there is anything better at dumping cards in graveyard. I'm ok spending turn two digging to the cards that actually win the game while simultaneously churning out a turn 3 5/5 zombie fish. I spent my prerelease using rakshasa's secrets to churn out my zombie fish and it worked out surprisingly well.

I think terrible is the wrong way to describe a card with definite value in limited, the format that dictates the most design choices.

Honestly, I think it's even less playable in limited. Heh, what's worse than terrible?

Using a card to Dark Ritual some expensive, but not overpowering, spells and to maybe set up the top of your deck a little - which awkwardly cuts into the cards ability to be a delve enabler - just isn't worth a full card and it's super punitive in a grindy limited format like Khans. You're now down that resource against your opponent, that's one less removal spell, one less creature, etc. That's just the advantage that allows your opponent to lean on you and win eventually.

The value of something like Hooting Mandrills isn't that you can power it out on Turn 3, it's around Turn 6-10 when you can make a strong play of say flipping over a morph and putting a nice 4/4 on the board. Even if my deck was full of Hooting Mandrills, Treasure Cruise, and such, I think Scout the Borders and Rakshasa's Secrets are still much better enablers.

Slycne:

Honestly, I think it's even less playable in limited. Heh, what's worse than terrible?

Using a card to Dark Ritual some expensive, but not overpowering, spells and to maybe set up the top of your deck a little - which awkwardly cuts into the cards ability to be a delve enabler - just isn't worth a full card and it's super punitive in a grindy limited format like Khans. You're now down that resource against your opponent, that's one less removal spell, one less creature, etc. That's just the advantage that allows your opponent to lean on you and win eventually.

The value of something like Hooting Mandrills isn't that you can power it out on Turn 3, it's around Turn 6-10 when you can make a strong play of say flipping over a morph and putting a nice 4/4 on the board. Even if my deck was full of Hooting Mandrills, Treasure Cruise, and such, I think Scout the Borders and Rakshasa's Secrets are still much better enablers.

You're really doubling down on this, but your opinion is making less sense. You think the grindyness of the format makes card selection and delve enabling bad, but you're the one who recommended draft picking a 4/1 that dies to literally everything? The grindier the format, the less important that one card loss is. A limited deck can't run smoothly out the gate without drawing a dead land card later. You eliminate a single dead draw, the card has payed itself forward. If it was a fast format, the loss in pace would be a strong arguement against, but it isn't.

tstorm823:
You're really doubling down on this.

Heh, we're Magic players. We spend more time arguing about cards than playing the game or deck building. Card sorting might be a close second.

but your opinion is making less sense. You think the grindyness of the format makes card selection and delve enabling bad, but you're the one who recommended draft picking a 4/1 that dies to literally everything? The grindier the format, the less important that one card loss is. A limited deck can't run smoothly out the gate without drawing a dead land card later. You eliminate a single dead draw, the card has payed itself forward. If it was a fast format, the loss in pace would be a strong arguement against, but it isn't.

While I think you're absolutely correct that in a faster format you can't afford to take a turn off like that. For example, you just couldn't cast it in Gatecrash or Zenidkar without getting run over. But I think the effects of a dead card as related to the length of the game is more of a bell curve than a regression. In a long grindy format like say M14 or Khans, resources exchanges start to stack up, and one side gets to start leaning on their advantage eventually tipping the match in their favor. I also don't agree that simply clearing one land of your deck in the late game means you've re-cooped on Taigam's Scheming. You still had to take off a turn, or part of a turn off, doing nothing to the board itself. There's just so many hoops and conditions that need to line up for Taigam's Scheming to even begin to be argued as being "worth" a card.

tstorm823:

Slycne:

Honestly, I think it's even less playable in limited. Heh, what's worse than terrible?

Using a card to Dark Ritual some expensive, but not overpowering, spells and to maybe set up the top of your deck a little - which awkwardly cuts into the cards ability to be a delve enabler - just isn't worth a full card and it's super punitive in a grindy limited format like Khans. You're now down that resource against your opponent, that's one less removal spell, one less creature, etc. That's just the advantage that allows your opponent to lean on you and win eventually.

The value of something like Hooting Mandrills isn't that you can power it out on Turn 3, it's around Turn 6-10 when you can make a strong play of say flipping over a morph and putting a nice 4/4 on the board. Even if my deck was full of Hooting Mandrills, Treasure Cruise, and such, I think Scout the Borders and Rakshasa's Secrets are still much better enablers.

You're really doubling down on this, but your opinion is making less sense. You think the grindyness of the format makes card selection and delve enabling bad, but you're the one who recommended draft picking a 4/1 that dies to literally everything? The grindier the format, the less important that one card loss is. A limited deck can't run smoothly out the gate without drawing a dead land card later. You eliminate a single dead draw, the card has payed itself forward. If it was a fast format, the loss in pace would be a strong arguement against, but it isn't.

You're using some serious best-case thinking.

Sure, there may be the odd game where you cast it turn two, your opponent is durdling, and you cast some giant delve monster on turn 3. (although the number of games where 3 of the top 5 cards are things you want to dump in your graveyard on turn two should be low, or you should build better decks).

But there are also going to be games where your opponent went first, cast a 2 drop and a 3 drop, and suddenly you're at 14, and in a position where if they have any removal for your 5/5 you are pretty much stone dead.

But neither of those is important, really. There are two things that are important.

The first is that your notion that it is "replacing" itself if mill out an unwanted land is false; you're improving card quality, potentially, but you aren't getting card advantage, and you are losing tempo. Neither of these are things you want to be doing. The cards in your deck are all blanks until you draw them. It is like the thing bad players do when they play a single mill spell; the 4 cards they mill are equally likely to have been any four cards in your deck, and unless you lose the game to it it is totally irrelevant.

But secondly, and much more importantly, is that EVEN IF I were to accept the premise that scheming is a fine turn 2 play (which I don't, and it isn't), it is a god awful turn 6 play, and a mind-blowingly bad turn 10 play.

You want to keep the number of cards that turn into absolute bricks as the game goes long as low as possible. You already have to play about 17 of them. Why would you play more? (This is, by the way, why 99% of every time you try to play a vanilla or french vanilla 1 mana 1/1 you should slap yourself in the face until you snap out of it)

mrverbal:

The first is that your notion that it is "replacing" itself if mill out an unwanted land is false; you're improving card quality, potentially, but you aren't getting card advantage, and you are losing tempo. Neither of these are things you want to be doing. The cards in your deck are all blanks until you draw them. It is like the thing bad players do when they play a single mill spell; the 4 cards they mill are equally likely to have been any four cards in your deck, and unless you lose the game to it it is totally irrelevant.

I'm sorry to get in the way of your sense of superiority, but it's nothing like random milling, because you're looking and choosing. The cards aren't blank until you draw them if the card lets you look and choose. It's not comparable to milling your opponent, it's comparable to fate sealing them.

But secondly, and much more importantly, is that EVEN IF I were to accept the premise that scheming is a fine turn 2 play (which I don't, and it isn't), it is a god awful turn 6 play, and a mind-blowingly bad turn 10 play.

You know what else is an awful turn 10 play? Farseek. Farseek is a vomitously bad late game topdeck compared to Taigam's Scheming. But you play it anyway because a deck with no early game is certified crap.

tstorm823:

mrverbal:

The first is that your notion that it is "replacing" itself if mill out an unwanted land is false; you're improving card quality, potentially, but you aren't getting card advantage, and you are losing tempo. Neither of these are things you want to be doing. The cards in your deck are all blanks until you draw them. It is like the thing bad players do when they play a single mill spell; the 4 cards they mill are equally likely to have been any four cards in your deck, and unless you lose the game to it it is totally irrelevant.

I'm sorry to get in the way of your sense of superiority, but it's nothing like random milling, because you're looking and choosing. The cards aren't blank until you draw them if the card lets you look and choose. It's not comparable to milling your opponent, it's comparable to fate sealing them.

But secondly, and much more importantly, is that EVEN IF I were to accept the premise that scheming is a fine turn 2 play (which I don't, and it isn't), it is a god awful turn 6 play, and a mind-blowingly bad turn 10 play.

You know what else is an awful turn 10 play? Farseek. Farseek is a vomitously bad late game topdeck compared to Taigam's Scheming. But you play it anyway because a deck with no early game is certified crap.

Just so we're clear, farseek is *also* bad in a large percentage of limited decks. However, unlike scheming, it gives you a significant advantage; you can start playing your 4 drops on turn 3, which can be big game in some formats, and it colour fixes you.

So farseek gains you a potentially large tempo advantage if you play it early.

Your limited decks shoud be creatures, things which kill creatures, things that give you +CA or +tempo, and usually nothing else. Scheming costs you a card, costs you tempo*, and doesn't interact with the board at all. It's a bad card that will very occasionally be your 23rd card but you should never be happy to play.

* because you know what is a much better play on both turn 2 and turn 10? a bear of any kind.

mrverbal:

Just so we're clear, farseek is *also* bad in a large percentage of limited decks. However, unlike scheming, it gives you a significant advantage; you can start playing your 4 drops on turn 3, which can be big game in some formats, and it colour fixes you.

So farseek gains you a potentially large tempo advantage if you play it early.

Your limited decks shoud be creatures, things which kill creatures, things that give you +CA or +tempo, and usually nothing else. Scheming costs you a card, costs you tempo*, and doesn't interact with the board at all. It's a bad card that will very occasionally be your 23rd card but you should never be happy to play.

* because you know what is a much better play on both turn 2 and turn 10? a bear of any kind.

It plays with delve! Farseek fixes color and ramps mana, scheming sets the top of your deck and feeds delve. Farseek in its limited could get you a turn 3 loxodon hierarch. Taigam's scheming in its limited can get you a turn 3 necropolis fiend. And you really think a bear on turn 10 is always better than digging for something with more impact than a single chump block?

In a large number of games, turn 10 bear is better than turn 10 skip my turn, scry a few times.

If the game is a race, the bear is better - I can't take the turn off to do nothing, and the bear can change the race.

If the board is empty, scheming can cost you the game unless your opponent bricks twice.

If there is a large board stall, *maybe* scheming helps, but the extra body can equally give you the wrap around.

 

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