Why the Marvel Movies Should Ditch Peter Parker

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First: I wouldn't be against this. I just want to see an interesting character in the movie. The last bunch of movies have not shown an interesting character. They haven't had any umph, or I could not get emotionally involved with the character. The issue is that his personal issues always universally stemmed from his ultimate lack of communication ability.

Second: I think it's unlikely they will do that. They are most likely going to stick with a format that moviegoers already are familiar with.

Simply race swapping Peter Parker to be a black kid actually works far far better for the vast majority of your desired audience than Miles Morales. Miles is a fairly obscure character with little resonance or pop culture knowledge. And oh joy if they go with Miles we need to get yet another origin story. Whereas the actual character of Peter Parker and Spiderman are arguably one of the easiest and most race neutral there is. he is a kid from queens raised by his aunta nd uncle. His uncle is killed tragically in a home invasion/carjacking/etc, so its just him and his aunt struggling to get by. "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility". There is nothing about that story that does not work and damn well resonate with any race. Whereas Mile's story lacks the same punch and is really based around following in his heroes footsteps. You need Peter Parker to get to Miles. Plus outside of the nerd community Miles is virtually unknown. Maybe 100k people bought or read his books? Billions know who Peter Parker is.

But with that said I suspect that we will when all is said and done get the standard white male Peter Parker. Why? Because at this stage even if they reboot Spider-Man and throw out all of the Amazing movies, they still can stip the origin story and just jump right into the action so long as the character remains the one the viewers recognize from 50 years of comics, cartoon, tv and movies (not to mention the occasional Japanese Giant Robot).

Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

rgrekejin:

Ukomba:
If he's older, significantly older, he could be could have been active well before Ironman then vanished due to injury or retirement or what ever. Injury could explain why he had to sit out the invasion and Ultron. They could then go the Batman Beyond / Mask of Zorro rout of having him be training May / Miles or whoever. Having a family would also add to his personal conflict of the civil war.

That's, umm... that's exactly what they just did with Ant-Man, though. Michael Douglas's Hank Pym acts as the older mentor character to Paul Rudd's Scott Lang.

I suspect that we're not going to get another origin story, at least, not a full-length one, we may get the quick version during Civil War. But the Spiderman we get will be Peter. I'd be pleasantly surprised to be wrong, but I'd put money on it.

Is it? O_O I've have to admit I know very very little about Ant-Man in general and nothing about the movie.

This can only happen if Miles got a decent cartoon first.

Spiderman is my favorite hero. and I'm also tired of the "Everything imaginable shits on Peter" freight train that people tend to think is the only way you can write Spiderman. It has me a bit fatigued with him.

I haven't seen that much of Miles. But what I have seen, I liked. The problem is two fold.

There is plenty of characters with Spider powers, all trying to catch lightning in a bottle a second time. Silk, Kaine, Miles, Mayday, Ben Reilly, Mattie Franklin, Ezekiel Sims, Anya Sofia Corazon... replacing Spiderman in the movie is useless and comes out of nowhere unless you have a reason. Like I said, give anyone of those people their own cartoon, let it get popular and ok, we'll be more primed to see the switch.

But this is Spiderman.

He is the Sonic of the Marvel Universe. He is the Mario of the Marvel Universe. He is the Master Chief, Superman, He is the Louis, Francis, Bill and Zoey. We want the originals. We want the brand names. If you want to add the others? Make a cross over flick with Peter Parker as their leader. And hell, here's your dozens of sequels for free: Once they win, show the alternate Spider heroes go to their own universes.

Boom, no need for a stupid origin story. They could have hashed that all out in a SCENE of the spider cross over movie just saying how they got their powers. And once they are back in their own universes, the sky's the limit. Go nuts. and we'll be MORE likely to see it because we already got a taste of how cool they are during the Spider Crossover flick.

You're welcome.

How about we get really diverse and give Spider-Man an alter-ego without an alliterative last name? ;)

Super Not Cosmo:
Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

Ukomba:

Right Hook:

Ukomba:

Aren't they essentially doing exactly that with the Scarlet Witch and Quick Silver?

Not really, I suppose you could maybe see it from that perspective but Marvel owns those two characters, that's why they can use them. All they are doing is slightly changing how they got their powers, that's it. Also most film-goers don't give two shits about Scarlet and Quick but we're talking about the goddamn Spider-Man here.

I meant the legal aspect. As an outside observer, the ownership of the two seems questionable since Disney and Fox are both using them. It seems Disney is getting around Foxes actual ownership of them by altering them, an alteration that might have worked for Spider-man too.

Side Note. While Spider-man is obviously a bigger deal, I do believe, After 'X-Men: days of future past', there will be quite a few people who care about Quick Silver.

Actually from my understanding it was Fox that screwed up. Their license includes all of the Marvel Mutants, but specifically leaves Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver as Avengers. They were supposed to be excluded from Fox's license. Fox chose to only focus on the "all the mutants" part and ignore the exceptions. That is part of the bad blood now swirling between Fox and Marvel.

Robot-Jesus:

Super Not Cosmo:
Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

Marvel likes making money... Which is why they will not be crazy enough to mess with the central pillar of their empire without definitive or desperate reason. People buy Spiderman toys hand over fist now. They will not risk that by queuing up a pc stunt. The MCU has thrived by hewing pretty close to what the public expects. Much like the Winter Soldier they may setup Miles in the wings as a possible shock replacement in the future, but when Spider-Man first hits the big screen alongside the Avengers, it will be exactly the Spider-Man everybody recognizes and is expecting. Anything else is marketing and merchandising suicide. The last thing they want is fans going "yay! We got Spider-man back.... Ummm who the f is that?" Remember Marvel struck out on their own in making movies largely because everyone they licensed the characters to changed them in ways that the fans found unrecognizable.

Also, as much as I hate to bring this up, please remember that the Market Marvel appeals to is international. And as hard as we try to be diverse over here in North America, other markets will still not go see a black lead in the same numbers. Largely the Far East. And their isn't enough of an African Market yet to balance that out. Remember Sony had fairly legitimate concerns that a Denzel Washington would underperform in China. Pascal got slammed for it, but it is kind of the undeniable truth. While Sony did the right thing and released it anyway, they're not going to undermine a sure thing by deviating from the expected.

faefrost:

Robot-Jesus:

Super Not Cosmo:
Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

Marvel likes making money... Which is why they will not be crazy enough to mess with the central pillar of their empire without definitive or desperate reason. People buy Spiderman toys hand over fist now. They will not risk that by queuing up a pc stunt. The MCU has thrived by hewing pretty close to what the public expects. Much like the Winter Soldier they may setup Miles in the wings as a possible shock replacement in the future, but when Spider-Man first hits the big screen alongside the Avengers, it will be exactly the Spider-Man everybody recognizes and is expecting. Anything else is marketing and merchandising suicide. The last thing they want is fans going "yay! We got Spider-man back.... Ummm who the f is that?" Remember Marvel struck out on their own in making movies largely because everyone they licensed the characters to changed them in ways that the fans found unrecognizable.

My position is that they should just make Parker black or Korean, as there is nothing specifically white about the character in any way that matters; bringing in the new guy would be a mistake.

Yeah, I echo some other thoughts here: Miles while not entirely bad as a character, has the majority of his character rooted in being the follow up spider-man, and the rest being his trust issues with his father and uncle. At leasst Spider-Girl got out of her Father's shadow very quickly.

I get people want diversity and most of Marvel's better known black characters have ties to the X-Men and thus are off the table, but do we always have to go for the obvious? No Specturm (or whatever she's calling herself right now), Night Thrasher (maybe too much of a Batman ripoff), Rage (skip the 90s attitude and focus on the 14 year old in the adult's body), Living Lighting (gay Latinos need love too), Triathlon (okay bad idea), White Tiger, Captain Universe.... come on people. spread the love instead of picking the popular favorite.

I think he needs to stay Peter. I don't care if he's red, orange, blue, or purple. But Peter will always be the real Spiderman to me.

Have Peter Parker show up but only in the background. So, that the fans know that there's no movie but he does exist. Then, make him appear in civil war or something and end it with his death which will catch people off-guard (What?! They killed spiderman?!?). Then you focus on Miles Morales who`s origin (living up to another hero`s legacy) is not something that has been done so far.

Boom

Then, you make all the money.

Honestly, I'd take a black Peter Parker over this guy I've never heard of.

Sure are a lot of people that are offended by the idea of a black spider man in here.

But of course, us annoying social justice warriors are the overly sensitive ones.

ShirowShirow:
Sure are a lot of people that are offended by the idea of a black spider man in here.

But of course, us annoying social justice warriors are the overly sensitive ones.

I've seen, like, two comments that are offended at the idea of a black Spider-Man on the basis of him being black. The other disapproving comments are offended at the frankly ridiculous disregard that's being shown to the characters of both Peter Parker and Miles Morales.

People want more diversity in media, so a new Spider-Man is a fantastic opportunity for that. Sure, I get that. Black Spider-Man? Sure, go for it, why not? But then folks are making the jump from "let's have a black Spider-Man" to "hey, we've got a black Spidey over here just lying around, let's throw him in there!" The people suggesting this don't even seem to know much about Miles; I've seen quite a few suggestions that Donald Glover play him. Miles is thirteen. Or was, I think there was a timeskip recently so he may be a few years older, but not much. Do you not see the problem here? Beyond that, a significant chunk of the character, including his origin, revolves around the death of Peter and living up to that legacy as Spider-Man. If you take away what has been one of the defining character traits and plot points from a character that's been around for three years, is that even the same character?

I don't see many people getting upset at the idea of a black Spidey. I see people getting upset at the immense disrespect directed at these two fantastic characters by botching their stories and identities, and reducing a unique and well developed character down to, "hey, he's black, they should use him and damn the fact that his story won't make sense!", not to even mention how racist that sentiment is in and of itself.

Miles Morales is not "Spider-Man but black", he's Miles Morales. Peter Parker is not "white Spidey", he's Peter Parker. Both of these amazing characters should be treated with the honor they deserve, not mangled by a bunch of armchair experts who clearly don't understand either character hamfistedly trying to cram diversity into the MCU like a bunch of toddlers with block puzzles.

Those who advocate booting Miles Morales in to fill Peter Parker's shoes on the basis of his race alone do a great disservice to the characters, to the stories, and to the notion of honest and quality representation of minorities in media.

People are not tired of Peter parker, they are tired of the origin story that they keep rehashing and the same villains. Origin story then the sequel has the same villains then we are back to origin story for the next movie. That's why people are tired of him, he's not developing as a character when he is always fighting the same villains or it is another origin story. Putting peter parker with any of the rest of the universe allows them to develop the character further and have new and exciting villains. If they do the Green Goblin and origin again I will puke, same with Batman and Joker.

I'm totally cool with Miles, but I'm not OK with the reason for choosing him being this ever growing "Too many white people" mantra and paying no attention to what the character himself was.

And I'm sick of origin stories for the familiar characters too, dammit, no more origin stories. Just making a full feature length story with something interesting going on. It takes at least 5-6 years for 2 movies to be made, and it's a waste of time to re-establish all this stuff.

faefrost:

Ukomba:

Right Hook:

Not really, I suppose you could maybe see it from that perspective but Marvel owns those two characters, that's why they can use them. All they are doing is slightly changing how they got their powers, that's it. Also most film-goers don't give two shits about Scarlet and Quick but we're talking about the goddamn Spider-Man here.

I meant the legal aspect. As an outside observer, the ownership of the two seems questionable since Disney and Fox are both using them. It seems Disney is getting around Foxes actual ownership of them by altering them, an alteration that might have worked for Spider-man too.

Side Note. While Spider-man is obviously a bigger deal, I do believe, After 'X-Men: days of future past', there will be quite a few people who care about Quick Silver.

Actually from my understanding it was Fox that screwed up. Their license includes all of the Marvel Mutants, but specifically leaves Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver as Avengers. They were supposed to be excluded from Fox's license. Fox chose to only focus on the "all the mutants" part and ignore the exceptions. That is part of the bad blood now swirling between Fox and Marvel.

Huh, did not know that. Still, less of a dick move than The '1994 Fantastic Four'ing Red Eagle just did to the Wheel of Time.

Hdawger:
Yeah... no. How about instead we have Spider Girl and stop pretending that race is the most important factor in choosing a superhero. The political correctness in this article is off the charts.

Agree! Nobody would want Black Panther to be white, why should it be the other way around?

I have nothing against a black/hispanic character in the Marvel U, but when people think of spider man, they think of Peter Parker. Thats who he is. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Wolverine is Logan. If you want another character, make another superhero! Honestly, how hard is it?

I completely disagree.

Peter Parker is the only Spider-Man.

Miles Morales was only made for "diversity" reasons.

And no, changing Peter Parker into a different race is a horrible idea.

Robot-Jesus:

Super Not Cosmo:
Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

I'll say what I've said in a lot of other threads like this:
If there is a market, then how about making NEW characters? I mean, there ARE a lot of goddesses to choose from to make another divine character. We have Amaterasu, Japanese godess of sun, Morigan, Irish goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty,Coyolxauhqui, apowerful magician goddess from Aztec mythos (Coyo for short, maybe) and a LOT of others. But nooo, Marvel is too lazy and/or stupid to make new characters anymore, so let's give Thor tits.

Same situation with Morales. We are too lazy/stupid to create another non-white male character, so let's race swap the existing one. Hell, you want African deity, maybe? Then pay Neil Gaiman and buy rights for Anansi Brothers characters. Make it so that there is a heroic duo of sons of African song and trickery god and their villain is bloodthirsty Tiger god. Nope, race swap is the only way to do these things.

Just go and piss off more nerds.

OT: Movie goers don't know anything about comicbook characters and they know only one Spider-Man: Peter Parker. Making another alter ego for movie version is risky and can push away audience.

suspension of disbelief my friend. One god people can swallow, two? that's asking a bit too much.; especially from different pantheons.

Come on guys, how long have we wanted marvel to get their own shot at making a spider man movie? Now they get to do it and you want to change the character? I want to see marvel do a movie on Peter Parker, I do not care if you make him black. I have groaned my way threw 5 spiderman movies, I want an awesome one.

Mister K:

Robot-Jesus:

Super Not Cosmo:
Ugh! The only reason people have a hard on for having Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker in the new movie is simply because he's black. End of story. It's more of the same politically correct bullshit that got us the train wreck that was Avengers NOW! and this god awful lady Thor book and the upcoming mess of a book that's nothing but female heroes. The same people who are going elbow deep to pull reasons out of their ass other than "Because he's black" to justify having Miles Morales in the movie would collectively lose their shit if Marvel decided to go with a white guy to fill a traditionally black role.

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

I'll say what I've said in a lot of other threads like this:
If there is a market, then how about making NEW characters? I mean, there ARE a lot of goddesses to choose from to make another divine character. We have Amaterasu, Japanese godess of sun, Morigan, Irish goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty,Coyolxauhqui, apowerful magician goddess from Aztec mythos (Coyo for short, maybe) and a LOT of others. But nooo, Marvel is too lazy and/or stupid to make new characters anymore, so let's give Thor tits.

Same situation with Morales. We are too lazy/stupid to create another non-white male character, so let's race swap the existing one. Hell, you want African deity, maybe? Then pay Neil Gaiman and buy rights for Anansi Brothers characters. Make it so that there is a heroic duo of sons of African song and trickery god and their villain is bloodthirsty Tiger god. Nope, race swap is the only way to do these things.

Just go and piss off more nerds.

OT: Movie goers don't know anything about comicbook characters and they know only one Spider-Man: Peter Parker. Making another alter ego for movie version is risky and can push away audience.

Just because there is a market for minority characters doesn't mean that they are given the same chance as other characters. Simply making new characters to represent minorities rarely works because while many people would like to see more representation, few people are willing to take a risk by buying new and untested books. And if the readers are unwilling to risk their Money on an untested character with no history, then the Publishers that ultimatelyy have to sign on for this risk Before the readers even get a chance to support it are even worse. Comics are an expensive hobby you know. Hence why new minority characters are generally legacy heroes or related to other characters so that they can borrow some brand recognition while they get started.

Also, what's with all the God motifs for those characters? You couldn't Think of ANY other origin for a minority than just being the avatar of some deity? And I'm fairly certain that Neil Gaiman doesn't own the rights to Anansi the spider. Unless they were genuinely adapting HIS version of the character they could just do their own version of it.

Silverspetz:

Mister K:

Robot-Jesus:

It's not about political correctness, it's about appealing to more markets. Marvel has only two major black characters in the works; one is an african king and the other is an ex con. Black parents want to buy toys for their kids that are positive role models they can identify with, Marvel happens to likes making money; do you see where I'm going with this? In this day and age a lot of "political correctness" is just recognizing that black money spends as well as well as white.

I'll say what I've said in a lot of other threads like this:
If there is a market, then how about making NEW characters? I mean, there ARE a lot of goddesses to choose from to make another divine character. We have Amaterasu, Japanese godess of sun, Morigan, Irish goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty,Coyolxauhqui, apowerful magician goddess from Aztec mythos (Coyo for short, maybe) and a LOT of others. But nooo, Marvel is too lazy and/or stupid to make new characters anymore, so let's give Thor tits.

Same situation with Morales. We are too lazy/stupid to create another non-white male character, so let's race swap the existing one. Hell, you want African deity, maybe? Then pay Neil Gaiman and buy rights for Anansi Brothers characters. Make it so that there is a heroic duo of sons of African song and trickery god and their villain is bloodthirsty Tiger god. Nope, race swap is the only way to do these things.

Just go and piss off more nerds.

OT: Movie goers don't know anything about comicbook characters and they know only one Spider-Man: Peter Parker. Making another alter ego for movie version is risky and can push away audience.

Just because there is a market for minority characters doesn't mean that they are given the same chance as other characters. Simply making new characters to represent minorities rarely works because while many people would like to see more representation, few people are willing to take a risk by buying new and untested books. And if the readers are unwilling to risk their Money on an untested character with no history, then the Publishers that ultimatelyy have to sign on for this risk Before the readers even get a chance to support it are even worse. Comics are an expensive hobby you know. Hence why new minority characters are generally legacy heroes or related to other characters so that they can borrow some brand recognition while they get started.

Also, what's with all the God motifs for those characters? You couldn't Think of ANY other origin for a minority than just being the avatar of some deity? And I'm fairly certain that Neil Gaiman doesn't own the rights to Anansi the spider. Unless they were genuinely adapting HIS version of the character they could just do their own version of it.

Well, sometimes you actually HAVE to make risks, especially if you want to not piss of existing fanbase AND show that you are pro diversity. Maybe Marvel actually SHOULD risk and make original character once in a while.

As for "deity" question: My deity argument started from my Thorita argument. And then I combined Thorita situation with Morales situation into African deity argument.

And no, I don't think that "minority" character has to be somehow connected to deity, I was on a deity roll. Race and whatevs doesn't matter in making good character, whose character does not center around his/her etnicity.

As for Anansi, no, Geiman doesn't own this god, but I am more than sure that he owns Fat Charlie Nancy and Spider.

And please DO refrain from making assumptions about people you know nothing about. And please DO take less aggresive stance. People will be more willing do have discussions with you.

Yeah, let's ditch the most recognizable civilian identity of one of the most well known Marvel Superheroes for someone barely anyone outside the hardcore comic fans knows jack about.

Or they do the smart thing and DON'T do that.

I like Peter Parker.

I have zero interest in seeing a Spider-Man that is not Peter Parker. I'm not a fan of the alternative continuities and I actually despise even the main continuity's extended Spider-Family rip-offs.

I think an interesting concept would be to see Miles eventually; after all his story arc in the ultimate universe, as already mentioned, is heavily influenced by having already had Peter as the hero for some time.

Someone might find it difficult to see how Peter might just suddenly appear out of nowhere, after all he wasn't there in New york in Avengers. And no mentioning of him before the Cap 3 movie?
Yes that would be weird, but am I the only one noticing that they sort of do (maybe if-you-really-wants-them-to) mention him. Well, they say a high school kid with super powers, but that COULD be him. Though it fits both Peter and Miles, so that doesn't really leave anybody out of the picture. It just makes it a little less difficult to explain why he suddenly is there in Cap 3: He got his power some time after Avengers and sometime before cap 2, so that makes sense that he needs to explore who he is before the avengers comes all running, to bring him into the team.

Beside it would be nice to actually get a proper Peter Parker before ditching the whole idea of the original Spider-man in the MCU, for EVER! :)

Silverspetz:

Just because there is a market for minority characters doesn't mean that they are given the same chance as other characters. Simply making new characters to represent minorities rarely works because while many people would like to see more representation, few people are willing to take a risk by buying new and untested books. And if the readers are unwilling to risk their Money on an untested character with no history, then the Publishers that ultimatelyy have to sign on for this risk Before the readers even get a chance to support it are even worse. Comics are an expensive hobby you know. Hence why new minority characters are generally legacy heroes or related to other characters so that they can borrow some brand recognition while they get started.

Sorry, but this is a bullshit argument. Marvel alone has put out something like 3 or 4 books with female characters head-lining them in the last year alone. If they didn't want to print a full book, then they could do what they do with every other new character - try them out in an existing book and see if fan reaction is good enough to run to print.

The only reason why they gender/race swap existing characters is because every time they do this they are (for now) guaranteed to get free publicity from the press that loves to run stories like this because it always causes thread exactly like this one.

All the fans and readers are basically being played.

So... who exactly is this Miles character and why should I care about him? Despite reading comics, I don't read the Ultimate Marvel line cause it took every characters' potential to be a pretentious hypocrite (that Marvel does so well in comics) and upped it to 11.

praisegrima

Okay, copy paste from another thread. To all those saying 'Miles Morales' everywhere?

Yeah. It's not going to happen. Here's why.

1) Miles Morales is tied to the Ultimate Universe, which is a niche market -coincidentally, ever since Ultimate Peter Parker bit it-. Not saying that he's not a well written character, just he's not well known enough to bring even those who have a marginal knowledge of Marvel to the theaters -if you think the billions for the MCU come only from those who were hardcore comic book fans, think again-.

2) The backstory and character of Miles is much more complex and it requires Peter Parker to have existed AND to have died before he took up the tights. If you read the comics you know that a big part of Miles' arc, at least at the beginning, was trying to live up to the legacy of Ultimate Peter -which was the best thing out of the Ultimate Universe, let's be honest. That and his relationship with Ultimate Kitty Pride-. And since Miles is relatively new and not mainstream well known, that can't be addressed in a 'this happened, deal with it' way like they can and probably will with this new Peter.

3) A lot of the strength and appeal of the Marvel Universe is taking/remixing/recreating scenes from the comic books and putting them on the big screen. Peter Parker as Spider-Man has one of the biggest and longest and most variegated vault to pick from. He's fought hundreds of people, both heroes and villains, both his own and of others. He stared down the Ghost Rider, he stopped the Juggernaut, he fought Magneto, Galactus, the Phoenix Force, he was Captain Universe, etc... Miles has, what? Two years? Three?

Now, that said, while Miles is not going to be the newest Spider-Man, this new reboot of the Spider-Man universe could still present an opportunity for him to appear. How?

I suppose you've heard of the Spiderverse crossover event. Well, imagine that basic gist on the screen. You could have Spiderman 2000, Spiderman Noir, Spiderman India, Miles, etcetcetc... All on the same screen together!

But for that to happen, we need good old Peter Parker first.

Who, while has been done to death, has rarely been done as well as they should have. Especially on the big screen. McGuire did well his nerdy side but not the cool joke-quipping confident. Garfield did the latter perfectly, but not the first. It was pretty much glossed over in the AMS movies. So this is a chance to finally find an actor who will be to Spiderman what Tony Stark is to Iron-Man.

And to those who are going to say: 'hey, they used unknowns with Guardians of the Galaxy and it was AWESOME!' Well, yeah, but you're thinking of this in terms of 'MCU wants to add another notch to their belt'. That's not what's happening here.

The thing is, the MCU worked so well because of its actors tied to their roles. Particularly RDJ, and those same actors either want more money or want to go do other stuff -hell, Evans wants to quit acting altogether-. MCU doesn't need SpiderMan simply to add value, they want something they can anchor the entire Universe on for a time to not let people leave if their actors also leave. Spidey can do that by name alone.

I'm the first to admit that GotG was AWESOME -better than Avengers, if you ask me- but it was still a shot in the dark. Could have worked and could have not worked. They can't take that kind of risk in this transitional phase. Hence, the need for Peter Parker as Spidey. Except for him, maybe only Wolverine has the same star power no matter the media he's in.

And we know where Wolvie is right now.

Mister K:

Silverspetz:

Mister K:

I'll say what I've said in a lot of other threads like this:
If there is a market, then how about making NEW characters? I mean, there ARE a lot of goddesses to choose from to make another divine character. We have Amaterasu, Japanese godess of sun, Morigan, Irish goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty,Coyolxauhqui, apowerful magician goddess from Aztec mythos (Coyo for short, maybe) and a LOT of others. But nooo, Marvel is too lazy and/or stupid to make new characters anymore, so let's give Thor tits.

Same situation with Morales. We are too lazy/stupid to create another non-white male character, so let's race swap the existing one. Hell, you want African deity, maybe? Then pay Neil Gaiman and buy rights for Anansi Brothers characters. Make it so that there is a heroic duo of sons of African song and trickery god and their villain is bloodthirsty Tiger god. Nope, race swap is the only way to do these things.

Just go and piss off more nerds.

OT: Movie goers don't know anything about comicbook characters and they know only one Spider-Man: Peter Parker. Making another alter ego for movie version is risky and can push away audience.

Just because there is a market for minority characters doesn't mean that they are given the same chance as other characters. Simply making new characters to represent minorities rarely works because while many people would like to see more representation, few people are willing to take a risk by buying new and untested books. And if the readers are unwilling to risk their Money on an untested character with no history, then the Publishers that ultimatelyy have to sign on for this risk Before the readers even get a chance to support it are even worse. Comics are an expensive hobby you know. Hence why new minority characters are generally legacy heroes or related to other characters so that they can borrow some brand recognition while they get started.

Also, what's with all the God motifs for those characters? You couldn't Think of ANY other origin for a minority than just being the avatar of some deity? And I'm fairly certain that Neil Gaiman doesn't own the rights to Anansi the spider. Unless they were genuinely adapting HIS version of the character they could just do their own version of it.

Well, sometimes you actually HAVE to make risks, especially if you want to not piss of existing fanbase AND show that you are pro diversity. Maybe Marvel actually SHOULD risk and make original character once in a while.

As for "deity" question: My deity argument started from my Thorita argument. And then I combined Thorita situation with Morales situation into African deity argument.

And no, I don't think that "minority" character has to be somehow connected to deity, I was on a deity roll. Race and whatevs doesn't matter in making good character, whose character does not center around his/her etnicity.

As for Anansi, no, Geiman doesn't own this god, but I am more than sure that he owns Fat Charlie Nancy and Spider.

And please DO refrain from making assumptions about people you know nothing about. And please DO take less aggresive stance. People will be more willing do have discussions with you.

So you are the one Calling the writers "lazy/stupid" but I'M the one who is being aggressive? Funny.

Yes, I do wish they would take more risks with their heroes, but there is nothing inherently wrong about using their existing brand-recognition to LESSEN the risks of new heroes so that they can actually gather an audience. And I wish people would get so fucking hung up on that whenever some minority character pops up. I mean, did Wally West get this kind of hate/complaints when he took over from Barry Allen? Take the new Miss Marvel for instance, she has absolutely NOTHING to do with her namesake, but the brand name probably helped her to get a following and now we have a great new character in the Marvel universe. Using an existing characters name and iconography isn't necessarily being lazy, and it often requires the writers to be clever in order to work it in.

Jake Martinez:

Silverspetz:

Just because there is a market for minority characters doesn't mean that they are given the same chance as other characters. Simply making new characters to represent minorities rarely works because while many people would like to see more representation, few people are willing to take a risk by buying new and untested books. And if the readers are unwilling to risk their Money on an untested character with no history, then the Publishers that ultimatelyy have to sign on for this risk Before the readers even get a chance to support it are even worse. Comics are an expensive hobby you know. Hence why new minority characters are generally legacy heroes or related to other characters so that they can borrow some brand recognition while they get started.

Sorry, but this is a bullshit argument. Marvel alone has put out something like 3 or 4 books with female characters head-lining them in the last year alone. If they didn't want to print a full book, then they could do what they do with every other new character - try them out in an existing book and see if fan reaction is good enough to run to print.

The only reason why they gender/race swap existing characters is because every time they do this they are (for now) guaranteed to get free publicity from the press that loves to run stories like this because it always causes thread exactly like this one.

All the fans and readers are basically being played.

I find it telling that you think the ONLY reason anyone gives a minority representation in comics is to exploit them. Who cares if the company also happens to gain from it? It is still a GOOD thing.

And a cameo-appearance may work out sometimes, but you are still ignoring the reality that minority character are rarely given the same chance as other characters. Sometimes a little extra help is needed to overcome decades of bias.

Also, another thing. I see everyone here making the simple assumption that just because they'd use a more diverse character for Spidey, it'd automatically be better or good.

You do realize there's also the possibility that they wouldn't know what to do with it and ruin it or try too hard? Do you remember what Miles was supposed to be at the incipit? Young, half black half hispanic, gay, etc... There's a thing as trying too hard. Also a thing as 'when did being white and heterosexual become automatically bad'?

Silverspetz:

I find it telling that you think the ONLY reason anyone gives a minority representation in comics is to exploit them. Who cares if the company also happens to gain from it? It is still a GOOD thing.

And a cameo-appearance may work out sometimes, but you are still ignoring the reality that minority character are rarely given the same chance as other characters. Sometimes a little extra help is needed to overcome decades of bias.

First off, you're talking to an actual minority so it'd be nice to understand what you think is so "telling" about my position.

Secondly, it's absolutely exploitation and it's not a good thing. It devalues the character.

Take how they put Falcon into the role of Captain America. This is a character that is extremely well liked already by fans and has even recently gotten into the MCU and was well received. So what do they do to him?

They boot Steve and give him Captain America. This is completely disrespectful to Falcon. He's a good character. He deserves his own book, not pretending to be Captain America. It's also disgusting meta-commentary on how Marvel views their black characters - basically the only way for them to be successful is if they make a white character move aside for them. It's stomach churning in it's insincerity and offensiveness.

Also, you need to re-examine your position on this. I can't believe you are advocating for some sort of fictional affirmative action for fictional characters. These are not real people, you know that right? Treating them like real people is something that crazy people would do. There is no bias on behalf of Marvel or any other comic book publisher against having black characters. Their challenge is just making a character (regardless of their race or gender) that people will enjoy reading about.

They have managed to do this in the past and I suspect they will manage to do it again. Tossing together a gender swap or a race swap that we all know will only be reverted later is the kind of fake social justice crap that I expect from hipsters and slacktivists. They always conflate media representation with influencing people's social and cultural values instead of the other way around, it just being a representation of what people want to see or read. This is why these lame attempts always fail.

People will read good characters regardless of their race, gender, whatever. They will not tolerate obvious exploitation because it's offensive.

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