Dreadnought - Captains Wanted

Dreadnought - Captains Wanted

This is what it's like to play Dreadnought, the upcoming team-based class shooter by Spec Ops: The Line developers, Yager.

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Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

In B4 "Is there single..." awww

No, it's a multiplayer game only.

Thunderous Cacophony:
Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

This looks soooooo good. Like, amazingly good.
Now if only I had a computer that could handle it.

Hmmm... this looks.... well not quite like anything I'd want. Almost, but not quite. I'd prefer a game where the ship operation is complex enough to require a team of players to operate a single ship(kind of a more military-like ARTEMIS). Instead of deathmatches, I'd want more objective-based scenarios, preferably with both PVP and Co-op only setups. I'd want campaigns that string multiple scenarios together. I'd want players to be able to design and distribute these scenarios and campaigns.

So yeah, not quite what I'm looking for.

My interest waned as soon as I read "team based". Unless there is a single player campaign (lasting more than 6 hours), this is going to fall in to the same category as Evolve and Titanfall.

No social life:

Thunderous Cacophony:
Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

Was just going to say this but you beat me to it, battles for territory or wealth and resources (sometimes just because they hate each others guts too) between alliances consisting of thousands of members that rage for months and sometimes years.

Intricate fleet tactics that are totally role dependant and having a good fleet commander along with a good target caller and scout team are essential, EVE dwarfs Dreadnought in terms of depth but Dreadnought seems to be focusing on smaller flotilla fights with direct ship control etc.

They are not quite the same game, Dreadnoughts appears to be more of a multiplayer version of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident and I will definitely play it when its released.

Edit,

Here is a good example of patient strategic fleet combat (includes politics with an alleged broken non aggression treaty too), an alliance setting a 13 hour long trap for one of the games rarest and most powerful ships (a rare Supercarrier).

This is something I am eagerly awaiting. Elimination mode sounds fantastic, I would definitely be ok flying around in little fighters after losing my capital rather than sit idly by until the match is over.

No social life:

Thunderous Cacophony:
Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

Touche, though honestly most of what I see out of EVE is "This is a great game to troll people'. Unless Dreadnought involves that same level of financial commitment to make blowing up someone's cargo worth it, I can't see it taking the same route.

Been waiting for more games with capital space battleships for ages. The last one for me was Nexus the jupiter incident, even thought that game was alot more homeworld and not enough RPG elements.

Allways have been a fan of the big ships instead of being a fighter pilot. Makes more sense in my eyes too to have actuall battleships flying around space then single fighters traveling between planetary systems on their own, somehow having the energy and live support needed to survive such long travels.

The X series also features capital ship battles.. but somehow they never felt right to me.. not because of the ships, but because the weapons lack a feel of impact and heavyness and that they force you into a cockpit like camera mode onboard of a giant battleship wich is just silly when they should give you a 3rd person perspective.

Ah, this reminds me of the time I played a Liberty Cruiser in Freelancer Discovery RP for the Lane Hackers, patrolling the nebula, bullying fighter pilots for entering restricted space. Good times. I'll definitely keep an eye on this game.

Like a few others have said, I really wish this had a single-player mode. I love the idea of space-combat and space-sim games, but in practice the only ones that tend to hold my interest for very long are the ones where I'm not simply piloting a solo-crew fighter around, and unfortunately there aren't too many of those around. I love captaining battleships, but I've never been too interested in competitive multi-player.

Which is a shame, because the gameplay I've seen makes Dreadnought appear as if it's exactly the type of space combat I would adore.

Isn't this basically Fractured Space with a bigger budget?

Thunderous Cacophony:

No social life:

Thunderous Cacophony:
Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

Touche, though honestly most of what I see out of EVE is "This is a great game to troll people'. Unless Dreadnought involves that same level of financial commitment to make blowing up someone's cargo worth it, I can't see it taking the same route.

EVE is good for that so that's true but it's a pretty shallow way to play if that's all someone does, what EVE does best is in creating a space (no pun intended) that allows groups of people, in various sizes to come together and work together to create and achieve things far greater than they could individually.

Its about sharing that experience with other people, whether its a small group of younger players in small and cheap ships flying together to take down a larger and more powerful ship, a huge Alliance fighting for territory and/or survival in deep space against an enemy they have been fighting for years or a group of traders and industrialists working together at tasks that are impossible alone and finally getting all the materials, money, resources and starbase they need to expand into large scale or specialist ship or equipment manufacturing.

You will make friends, lose friends, make enemies and destroy enemies and share in the highs and the lows together. Working together towards goals that go way beyond raiding and guild building in other MMOs is what EVE is really about, sure the losses can be frustrating, even painful at times but the risks make the rewards sweeter and the bad times make you appreciate the good times even more. They make the drama more compelling too, when a huge alliance finally falls after a long and brutal war years of work, many tens of thousands of man hours of blood, sweat and tears go up in smoke (or get stolen by members fleeing the sinking ship).

I know for some people thats unapealing, I get that and understand stakes that high in a game are not for everyone but for those of us that love EVE its the thing that makes it unique and worthwhile.

Skeleon:
Ah, this reminds me of the time I played a Liberty Cruiser in Freelancer Discovery RP for the Lane Hackers, patrolling the nebula, bullying fighter pilots for entering restricted space. Good times. I'll definitely keep an eye on this game.

Freelancer <3 another great game, the open world to roam through (mods too) are what made that game special. The game design was awesome, like choosing between faster and more convenient travel via tradelanes and gates but at the cost of being easier to intercept and increasing the risk of running into someone hostile (ambushing people part way down the tradelands :D) added a great deal if tactical depth.

J Tyran:

No social life:

Thunderous Cacophony:
Seems interesting; is there are single-player version or is it only online team-based play? I ask because it seems like the kind of people who make a thriving online gaming community are not the same people who like slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators.

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

Was just going to say this but you beat me to it

If you have honor, play well with a team and don't feel that stomping new players into dust then EVE Online should be avoided. A worse community of online players does not exist (and I play Dark Souls). The vast majority of press regarding EVE Online is some public back stab by allied players, or their really fabulous huge spreadsheet battles.

At its heart EVE Online is subscription based point and click spreadsheet faking it as spaceship simulator; all connected to servers so slow CCP writes great blogs how they slow time to 10% instead of limiting players ... or worse, improving their own network and server hardware.

Dreadnought sounds completely different to me, at least there has been no discussions about a spreadsheet.

Off topic comments aside, good article. It will be interesting to see how this plays out (not really a pun).

Good read, thanks.

I love the ponderous movement of the large vessels and have been waiting for a game like this for so long.

Darkness665:

J Tyran:

No social life:

..... You have seen some of the things that have come out of eve online?

Was just going to say this but you beat me to it

If you have honor, play well with a team and don't feel that stomping new players into dust then EVE Online should be avoided. A worse community of online players does not exist (and I play Dark Souls). The vast majority of press regarding EVE Online is some public back stab by allied players, or their really fabulous huge spreadsheet battles.

At its heart EVE Online is subscription based point and click spreadsheet faking it as spaceship simulator; all connected to servers so slow CCP writes great blogs how they slow time to 10% instead of limiting players ... or worse, improving their own network and server hardware.

Dreadnought sounds completely different to me, at least there has been no discussions about a spreadsheet.

Thank you for your post, well I'm not going to deny that some players only play to "stomp new players into dust" because there are people like that but most PvPers want a proper fight if only for the loot or a decent killmail because some shit fit newbie (all newbies are shit fit at first, most pick it up fairly quickly. The rest rant about "Honour" on just any and every forum or comment section in the world instead) won't drop anything and filling a corps KB with newbie kills doesn't look good (I knew a lot of corps that would get annoyed with it if thats all a member kept killing, because its just killboard padding and reflects badly on the corp). While I don't know exactly what "honour" is supposed to mean but how many games would you have enough trust in a freind to blindly jump your ship worth a whopping $14,000 USD if you could convert it into a real money value and thats loaded down with equipment so valuable you could buy and equip a fleet of Battleships for the price of one single module and it has several such modules.

Earning and being worthy of that level of trust and keeping it is pretty honourable right? Fits the definition of "playing well with a team" too, there are players that scam and steal but most of the time a corporation and any alliances they are part of are built on trust and without they would fall apart. Without it logistics wouldn't happen, ships couldn't be jumped, intelligence and scouting would be impossible/untrustworthy, corporation wide hangers and starbases wouldn't happen or be stocked with supplies and ammo.

Most people are loyal to their corp, loyal to their friends. At least up to the point where they part ways and even then bonds often remain

Now lets address the other parts of your post, "faking it as spaceship simulator" is as good a place to start with as anywhere else I suppose. In many ways EVE online is a far more accurate, feasible space ship simulator than many others Including Dreadnought (even as cool as it looks).

The player flown ships in EVE are large, they are not like the fighters in a game like Star Citizen. Does the officer in command of any of these ships sit in a cockpit maneuvering it and firing the weapons with a HOTAS?

image
image
image

Of course they don't, even the smallest, fastest and most agile ships in the game are this:- image

rather than this:
image

Its a tactical and strategic space combat simulator with large ships, its the CIC of Battlestar Galactica rather than the cockpit of one of the Vipers and its never been, or pretended to be a space flight simulator. So we get around to the good old "spreadsheets in space" chesnut, its as old as the game and no more accurate now or here than it ever has been in the past or when said anywhere else.

Yes spreadsheets can help some of the gameplay in EVE Online, if you're doing any kind of industry or are a logistics manager for a large corporation and/or alliance that is. People into industry and manufacturing probably don't have any objections to spreadsheets, its a spreadsheety kind of thing in the first place and running a supply chain and corporate logistics is also a spreadsheety kind of thing and if someone doesn't like that kind of gameplay don't have to do it! Thats one of the wonderful things about a sandbox game, so for anyone that just wants to PvP or co-op some NPCs there are no spreadsheets involved.

Time Dilation is annoying and its an imperfect solution to an insolvable problem, no matter how much CCP improves the hardware and technology of the Tranquility server cluster its never enough because the players just cram more people into a battle and the blobs and alliances and coalitions of alliances just get bigger and bigger. No other game even attempts what CCP have to do on a daily basis, the lag monster is something players have had to deal with since forever but it only happens in the large battles with thousands of players fighting it out, that means tens of thousands of ships, fighters, drones, missiles and other objects within a solar system and the huge amount of other data that have to be collected and processed.

I know your post was just intended to be contrary but you missed the point of the comments you quoted entirely, it wasn't about space flight simulators or anything else. It was about whether their where communities of players for "slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators" and EVE Online was brought up, it never fails though. Any time someone mentions EVE you will always get an embittered person that got ganked when they played or tried the game ranting about "honour" (so you want players to /bow to each other and inform someone "have at thee good sir! Defend yourself!" before attacking someone? You can tell the difference between someone that just dislikes the game and someone bitter about being ganked because its always the "honour" thing) and misrepresenting the gameplay with "point and click" comments, the point and click bit always reveals the truth that they where bad at the game because the subtle nuances and the ignorance about the existence of sorcerous concepts like "Hotkeys".

An RTS game is "point and click" if you're bad at it, for players that are at least someone competent at them its an intense challenge of micromanagement, able to rapidly give commands and having good situational awareness of what is exactly going on around them.

Well, this will scratch my capital ship flying itch as Elite Dangerous won't take care of that(the largest ships are frigate class maybe) and I get to use my fighter jock skills in another game. Maybe one day I'll learn to fly in a game with real planes.

I can't help but feel like all the publishers and devs looked at the market and thought at the same time "there's too many mainstream fantasy games out there, but man look at this big gaping hole for space sims! Lets all jump in and make a ton of money." Just because Star Citizen is having a mega success does not mean there's room for 20+ more games in the genre to come out at the same time. o o;

At least this one is trying a different angle on gameplay like Star Crawlers is doing. On the flip side, Shroud of the Avatar and Underworld Ascendant are looking to be well positioned in the fallout when everyone tries to release their space sim games around the same block of time.

J Tyran:

Thank you for your post, well I'm not going to deny that some players only play to "stomp new players into dust" because there are people like that but most PvPers want a proper fight if only for the loot or a decent killmail because some shit fit newbie (all newbies are shit fit at first, most pick it up fairly quickly. The rest rant about "Honour" on just any and every forum or comment section in the world instead) won't drop anything and filling a corps KB with newbie kills doesn't look good (I knew a lot of corps that would get annoyed with it if thats all a member kept killing, because its just killboard padding and reflects badly on the corp). While I don't know exactly what "honour" is supposed to mean but how many games would you have enough trust in a freind to blindly jump your ship worth a whopping $14,000 USD if you could convert it into a real money value and thats loaded down with equipment so valuable you could buy and equip a fleet of Battleships for the price of one single module and it has several such modules.

I would never trust an EVE Online player with $14, or 14B ISK, 1 PLEX or any other thing of value based on any real or imaginary kurrency.

I have met three EVE Online players that were good people. Every other one was a back stabbing crook, a thief, or a traitor. And they were quite proud of being dregs of society. New Eden merely allows their true nature to show itself. I am sure there are more than three good people in New Eden. With any luck at all, and diligence on my part, I will never have to test that theory.

Thank you for sharing your views.

J Tyran:

Time Dilation is annoying and its an imperfect solution to an insolvable problem, no matter how much CCP improves the hardware and technology of the Tranquility server cluster its never enough because the players just cram more people into a battle and the blobs and alliances and coalitions of alliances just get bigger and bigger. No other game even attempts what CCP have to do on a daily basis, the lag monster is something players have had to deal with since forever but it only happens in the large battles with thousands of players fighting it out, that means tens of thousands of ships, fighters, drones, missiles and other objects within a solar system and the huge amount of other data that have to be collected and processed.

I know your post was just intended to be contrary but you missed the point of the comments you quoted entirely, it wasn't about space flight simulators or anything else. It was about whether their where communities of players for "slow-paced strategic fleet combat simulators" and EVE Online was brought up, it never fails though. Any time someone mentions EVE you will always get an embittered person that got ganked when they played or tried the game ranting about "honour" (so you want players to /bow to each other and inform someone "have at thee good sir! Defend yourself!" before attacking someone? You can tell the difference between someone that just dislikes the game and someone bitter about being ganked because its always the "honour" thing) and misrepresenting the gameplay with "point and click" comments, the point and click bit always reveals the truth that they where bad at the game because the subtle nuances and the ignorance about the existence of sorcerous concepts like "Hotkeys".

An RTS game is "point and click" if you're bad at it, for players that are at least someone competent at them its an intense challenge of micromanagement, able to rapidly give commands and having good situational awareness of what is exactly going on around them.

I felt that this required a separate response. I did try to learn the game. But I bored out in less than two hours. I also had several show me how much fun it was. It wasn't. It was boring. Farmville in space with a spreadsheet and skill gating mechanics. And, to me, it is definitely point and click. It is a PC game which KB/M and sorry but point and click covers a significant percentage of the action. The reviewed game might well turn out to be that. Until I see or play a demo that shows the interaction I will refrain from guessing. But the point and click definition is a match for EVE.

As far as game interfaces I do have several KB/M games but I prefer controllers. It requires a simpler UI and is more immediate during combat. I enjoy watching RTS games, but rarely enjoy playing them (beside the Total War games). Hotkeys are fine, but memorizing dozens of commands when there is nothing actually happening on screen ... it's not my thing.

Time Dilation is a horrific solution. That CCP was proud of it and explained in detail what a miracle of a solution it was - well, it stuck in my throat. Reading, in these pages, about EVE battles and TD meant seconds (tens of seconds) for response times boggles my mind. Software of that caliber should never be released. Of course, their entire server was written in Ruby until just a few years ago. That explains many of their issues. The battles are resolved on the server. Everything is resolved on the server. They have a customer base that accepts 200+ms latency and that is good combination. I am not one of those customers.

I never got ganked. I merely met people that wanted me to play EVE Online and they bragged about their life. I wouldn't play monopoly with them, except for the three mentioned, they were horrible people. I won't play in the real world or anywhere else with people like that. Life is too short.

It is good that you have friends in the game, friends to trust at that level. To get to those few hours of fun game play takes months of effort. The percentage of fun to boredom is just too steep for me. You have stronger legs - gaming legs. Good for you.

Darkness665:
snipped for size

As you don't know the game I ask you to take me on face value for this, trust me time dilation is about the best solution they could have come up with. Besides magically "fixing" the lag of course.

In a game with an economy driven by huge fights and the results of those fights the best thing apart from fixing the lag is minimising the effects the lag can have on those fights, at times the players will keep piling more and more ships into a system until it crashes. You can have a big fight with no lag and the alliances will just keep sending blobs in until it lags, if you restrict how many players can enter a system that means people can defend a system just by blobbing it. Or prevent a counter attack on a system they want to take by blobbing it and stop the defending alliance from entering the system.

Then you have situations where crashes can kick people to the desktop which can leave one side with an advantage if it dumps more of one side out than the other, alliances have also "weaponised" the lag in the past. They have fitted fleets of ships that can specifically deal with lag and then purposefully caused the lag, they have also used "lag bombs" to crash a star system to help defend it or if a fight is going badly.

Not joking either, literal lag bombs. Filling a freighter, the biggest cargo haulers in the game with a cargo hold full of cheap drones and then purposefully destroyed it because it would be easily worth a few billion ISK to influence the course of a battle. It would crash the whole star system, timers would reset, shields would essentially go back to full on bases or stations. CCP changed the way cargo dropped from destroyed ships to stop that particular trick, the players came up with new ones though.

So time dilation tries to limit the influence lag can have on the critical large battles, not only does it reduce server load but most importantly it does so fairly and evenly and doesn't create or allow any one side to get any advantage or manipulate anything to help their side. Thats why its imperfect but its about the best thing they could have done, now fewer fights are influenced by server issues.

Anyway, anyone that doesn't like the idea of big laggy fights doesn't have to do big laggy fights. I rarely did, I did my share of alliance blobbing but didn't like it so I joined a small roaming PvP corp instead and spent my time in a small gang of 10-20 roaming nullsec looking for other small gangs who where looking for fights. We also spent time baiting out the alliances into sending a small response fleet looking for us by ganking their ratters or people moving around in their territory, we never had lag issues.

Anyway last thing I wanted to address was your comments about the people playing the game and:-

New Eden merely allows their true nature to show itself.

Why do you say this? Because they killed some other players or are a pirate and took their stuff? Because they have a career as a scammer and/or corp thief? Its a game and those things are part of the gameplay, would you say that Call of Duty players are all murderers that want to go on killing sprees and the game allows their true nature to show itself?

You enjoy the games from the Total War series, does that mean that deep inside you're a genocidal tyrant and megalomaniac but you're just lacking the opportunity and those games allow you express your true nature? You said you like Dark Souls, so are you in fact actually an immortal undead thats trapped in human form and Dark Souls finally gives you the opportunity to be the person (being?) you truly are?

Lots of games, most games in fact depict what would be immoral, criminal or disgusting acts in real life and its just escapism and doesn't reflect on the character of the player.

J Tyran:
snipped for size
As you don't know the game I ask you to take me on face value for this, trust me time dilation is about the best solution they could have come up with. Besides magically "fixing" the lag of course.

New Eden merely allows their true nature to show itself.

Why do you say this?

Trust me when the retired software engineer tells you that Ruby was the wrong choice to start with. Time dilation is a bad solution to the problem. Realistically it might well be the very best CCP was capable of doing. I hold them in low regard.

I have looked into the game several times over the last decade. Aside from the UI changes and being able to craft whizzy avatars my first opinion of has held true. It bores me, the interface is complex (no doubt it needs to be) and overall EVE Online takes a few months to come up to speed. You extolled the hotkeys previously, yes I know of them. MSFT has them in Excel. Long before EVE Online existed. Many EVE players that urged me to try the game again, the latest update is fabulous, cautioned that it takes a couple of months to get up to speed. I believe them.

Total War games are interactive history for me. Could I have held the line against the Panzers? Can I take the historically accurate path to the shogunate? Or is there a better path, one that less lives lost or can be you take the shogunate faster? They are never about genocidal tyrants, nor do I aspire to be one. Oddly enough you are the only person that has made that assumption, EVE Online Player. ;-)

I have met many EVE Online players. The number of them that I would play any game at all with is less than five. The others failed the humanity test, for me. They were interested in getting new blood in the game, new players to bleed ISK and salvage. Escapism, or freedom from consequences? Doesn't really matter in the final analysis.

Dark Souls is a challenging game. That is why I like it. It has a world, somewhat crazy, but it is consistent within that world. The level designs are some of the best in the business. There are always solutions, not obvious in many cases. Often only death will give you the clue necessary to succeed in the next attempt. That or the wiki, of course.

Enjoy your game. I will enjoy mine.

Darkness665:
Oddly enough you are the only person that has made that assumption, EVE Online Player. ;-)

I wasn't assuming you are like that it was a rhetorical question to try and make you think about what you said, I don't believe that the type of games people choose to play reflects on them. Applying your logic that people play the games they play because it "allows their true nature to express itself would mean someone that likes playing historical strategy games means that they enjoying playing the part of a genocidal megalomaniac, as you point out it doesn't and this particular quote seems reflexively defensive.

Not going to argue about coding issues, if you say that code is bad I will take you at face value but that doesn't change the fact the game manages to do what no other game even attempts (even a fraction actually) with no worse lag for the most part with thousands of players fighting than an MMO with a few hundred people sharing the same area.

 

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