Online Kombat

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Lufia Erim:
Guilty gear. venom. Comon guys. Gay people have been in videogames a long time. This isn't news. I'm not say anymore about the subject because i know how quote happy people are.

Maybe because we already know Guilty Gear is from Japan, the most people said "ehhh, whatever, I saw worst from Japan". Also Vemon isn't only gay, but also a children lover [if I remember right].
What would happen if you had this kind of character in MK? CHAOS!!!!!! RAGEEEEE!!!!!! CCCOOOMMEENTSSSSS!!!!! TTHHHRREEEAAADDSSSS!!!!!!

As far as I can tell the people who are complaining about this basically have the viewpoint of "I'm not against gay people being in games, but I don't want to actually see it." If it's a subtle bit of backstory (such as here) it's "pointless" and "the game's about fighting so who cares" and if it's actually a large part of a character's backstory or relationships (like in say Inquisition) then it's being "shoved down our throats". I'm curious as to what sort of depiction of homosexuality they'll actually be happy with.

I didn't even know about this until now. And people care? It's a fighting game character. Their sexuality is as important as their political ideology or the fact that they like cats more than dogs and vice versa. When it comes to fighting characters, what's on the outside is what matters.

Briantb:
I thought there was a transexual character in street fighter?

yep her name is poison, she was originally a futa but the japanese devs thought that was to weird for Americans so they changed her into a transsexual.
there is also a cross dresser in guilty gear named Bridget (that makes every other male character in GuiltyGear gay but Bridget himself is straight and identifies as male).
there's dan hibiki in street fighter that a lot of people suspect is gay but no hard proof.
also skull girls have some lesbians.
most fighting games are made by the japanese and the japanese give 0 fucks about this, they are much less sexually inhibited then Americans which may explain why an american fighting game getting an lgbt character sorta is considered news.
however i still don't give a fuck.

Is the subtext to the comic that those two guys are domestic partners?
If not, I am disappointed...

gigastar:

Briantb:
I thought there was a transexual character in street fighter?

Thats Poison youre thinking about there.

And as far as i can work out, his gender was never mentioned in Final Fight, but only in the japanese manuals and guidebooks.

true but I think she was made canonically transexual female along the line in street fighter games, though I don't keep up with that

My only concern when I heard about it was them bandying that aspect of him like it was a trophy, or worse him being 'Faaaaaabulous' or the like.

Watching the cutscene, and it merely being confirmed via the developer, I see nothing to be mad about. The character happens to be gay, it's important to the character's motivations and backstory, and it isn't trounced around like it's some big thing for the sake of publicity.

Gold stars from me.

ITT: Gay/trans character in Japanese developed game? pfft not news, theyre all xenophobic degenerates anyway.

Gay/trans character from a western dev? PARAGONS OF DIVERSITY AND LOVE.

I suppose netherrealm need to be given props for writing a better gay character than anything Bioware has ever come up with.

Spot1990:

Lightknight:
Is he stereotypically gay? How is he identified as such in the game?

They really don't draw much attention to it. This is the only reference to it in game.

If I didn't know he was gay, I would probably interpret that as just a classic "forbidden love" trope (like being in love with a girl from the enemy clan or something).

My contribution to this discussion:

I quite like egg salad, but I've been gaining weight lately, so I've had to cut back on it among other things.

See Also: People that "don't care" about Anita Sarkeesian

Also See Also: People that "don't care" about GamerGate.

:P

Spot1990:

Lightknight:
Is he stereotypically gay? How is he identified as such in the game?

They really don't draw much attention to it. This is the only reference to it in game.

That's it?

Ok... then great. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem or particularly care. For all someone playing the game knows, he's in love with the Dojo master's daughter or something. So people can remain oblivious if they wish.

It's also kind of nice that they decided to portray him like a regular person rather than really "gaying" him up. Means that he is X character with Y abilities rather than just "that gay one" had they tried to make it a defining quality like so many stories fall folly to.

I have to ask though, has someone actually announced that he is in-fact gay? Or are we assuming it? It's just subtle enough to not know without outside knowledge.

Lightknight:

I have to ask though, has someone actually announced that he is in-fact gay? Or are we assuming it? It's just subtle enough to not know without outside knowledge.

It was confirmed by Netherrealm and then, mysteriously, the alleged "Outrage" erupted. Ofcourse these days people see a mean comment and automatically think "Oh people are really like this." Whereas afew months ago it would have been handwaved into the garbage with the rest of the trolls.

Having seen the cutscene on Youtube, it's pretty well-handled. You want to include a gay character? This is how you do it, with some fucking subtlety and grace. Me gusta. If I actually played fighting games I would be interested in the new Mortal Combat now because it looks like the writers know their shit (and idiot that I am, I play fighters for the plot).

---

I've seen more people smugly saying "HAH BET PEOPLE WILL LOSE THEIR SHIT" than people actually losing their shit. It's starting to get really obnoxious.

lacktheknack:
"I just don't want to expose children to that sort of behavior."

That made my day. Thank you.

For my part, I actually don't give a fuck, not because I'm totally deaf to the gay rights movement, but because I really don't care about Mortal Kombat. It's a game where it's chief appeal has always been its over the top violence and, given the state of modern gaming, the novelty of that sort of wore off, oh, about ten years ago.

But writing a two thousand word post about something you don't give a fuck about? Totally know how that goes. Sometimes, you find yourself having a very complex opinion about things you didn't think you cared about. And sometimes you just rant for the fun of it.

People really have no right to complain about the inclusion of a homosexual character in a fighting game.

After all, playing a gay character is a choice.

MinionJoe:
People really have no right to complain about the inclusion of a homosexual character in a fighting game.

After all, playing a gay character is a choice.

To be fair. Noone is complaining. in this very thread noone is complaining about it. Theres alot of people claiming that theres people outraged over this but it seems like something one would have to go pretty far out of their way to find.

Suprised theres less focus on the Vastly improved female character designs. Sonya actually looks like special forces now rather than army costumed hooker.

Areloch:
My only concern when I heard about it was them bandying that aspect of him like it was a trophy, or worse him being 'Faaaaaabulous' or the like.

Watching the cutscene, and it merely being confirmed via the developer, I see nothing to be mad about. The character happens to be gay, it's important to the character's motivations and backstory, and it isn't trounced around like it's some big thing for the sake of publicity.

Gold stars from me.

With the incredible campy nature of Mortal Kombat I don't really see how a faaaaaaaaabulous character would be out of place. Regardless I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think he was added just for brownie points, which is a lot of my past problems with seemingly token gay characters being added to games. Kind of sucks that people are just so hyper reactionary due to the current environment in gaming.

The Material Sheep:

Areloch:
My only concern when I heard about it was them bandying that aspect of him like it was a trophy, or worse him being 'Faaaaaabulous' or the like.

Watching the cutscene, and it merely being confirmed via the developer, I see nothing to be mad about. The character happens to be gay, it's important to the character's motivations and backstory, and it isn't trounced around like it's some big thing for the sake of publicity.

Gold stars from me.

With the incredible campy nature of Mortal Kombat I don't really see how a faaaaaaaaabulous character would be out of place. Regardless I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think he was added just for brownie points, which is a lot of my past problems with seemingly token gay characters being added to games. Kind of sucks that people are just so hyper reactionary due to the current environment in gaming.

Yeah, that's probably true, though MK feels like it's gravitated more towards 'supr srs' rather than camp of late. I haven't played X though, so maybe that's just the veneer of the marketing getting in the way. Of course, you could also imagine the internet firestorm that would happen from the hyper-reactionaries if they did go full faaaaaaaabulous too. This is probably the least painful way to get the character in right now for the devs.

The

GAYTALITY!

where he tears off male characters' clothes off and sucks them like a vacuum cleaner might've been a bit much for some people though.

Seriously though, it's good to see Netherrealm handle the characterization well, both in-game and out.

Ah, so that was what Raiden and Jin were talking about.

Here I was thinking he was a pedophile; or a furry.

Adultratedhydra:

MinionJoe:
People really have no right to complain about the inclusion of a homosexual character in a fighting game.

After all, playing a gay character is a choice.

To be fair. Noone is complaining. in this very thread noone is complaining about it. Theres alot of people claiming that theres people outraged over this but it seems like something one would have to go pretty far out of their way to find.

Suprised theres less focus on the Vastly improved female character designs. Sonya actually looks like special forces now rather than army costumed hooker.

There is stripper cowboys, but it is totally okay right?
image

As for the gay thing. Well, it may be a novelty in games but the presentation is old news in media. It is pure propaganda that falls in two camps for gays:

1: Gays are evil things with rotten blood that sacrifice children for the satanic being xuxumagafababah that lives in the Dark Dimension,

A: Gays are the bestest, nicest and coolest people ever and all their problems are caused by you, you mean, meany society.

Both have been done to death already. They teach nothing and serve only to earn cookie points from a side.

scotth266:
Having seen the cutscene on Youtube, it's pretty well-handled. You want to include a gay character? This is how you do it, with some fucking subtlety and grace. Me gusta. If I actually played fighting games I would be interested in the new Mortal Combat now because it looks like the writers know their shit (and idiot that I am, I play fighters for the plot).

---

I've seen more people smugly saying "HAH BET PEOPLE WILL LOSE THEIR SHIT" than people actually losing their shit. It's starting to get really obnoxious.

Except you fail to consider the social context. This is a country in which there are states and counties in which it is still legal to discriminate against gay people for being gay:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/michigan-business-bans-openly-gay-people/index.html

As such, the only way to eliminate the deep-seated bigotry within this nation is to challenge it, and while MKX does so in a very small way, each step towards equality and inclusion is a positive and important one.

Lightknight:
Is he stereotypically gay? How is he identified as such in the game?

He probably isn't. He's probably a well written character. What likely happened was that the writer disclosed to the internet that the well written character happens to be gay and that may have influenced their actions in the story in some way.

delroland:

As such, the only way to eliminate the deep-seated bigotry within this nation is to challenge it, and while MKX does so in a very small way, each step towards equality and inclusion is a positive and important one.

I already said that I like the gay character and the way they introduce him. I'm more annoyed by people preening about it, because (in case you didn't already notice) the sort of people that are going to play Mortal Combat are not the same sort of people as that one car dealer in Michigan. Mortal Combat is preaching to the choir, not making some drastic social statement. It's a chorus with a good message, but it gets a bit tiring repeatedly hearing shouted declarations of "AMEN, HALLELUJAH MY BROTHER."

Come to think of it the whole hubbub surrounding gay/minority characters largely reminds me of the more energetic churches out there - loud and fervent with tons of hymnals. I'm a more subtle sort of guy that prefers song-less ceremonies - constant noise just gives me a headache.

Also, if you're at the point where you can buy your own copies of Mortal Combat and haven't learned that gay people aren't Satan Incarnate, you're probably not going to realize it period. My two cents.

Yeah... im calling BS on the Unicorn thing...

Im able to play gay characters in any bioware game but i have yet to be able to play as a unicorn...

WE NEED MORE DIVERSITY!

erttheking:
I've got mixed feelings on the whole tokenism debate. On the one hand, I would like to see more fleshing out of a character dealing with their sexuality. On the other hand...do they always need to? I mean there are black characters in fighting games and they don't exactly flesh out their race and any experiences related to their race. Why not just let them have a gay character who just happens to be gay, end of story? We have plenty of characters who just happen to be heterosexual, end of story, why not the other way around?

That's the thing about tokenism though, people have started to equate it with things that are pretty plainly not tokenism. In this case, if Jin was just a "gay" re-skin of another character who got none of the same backstory treatment and the like, that would be tokenism. Take Balrog from Street Fighter. He's a unique character with his own moveset, his own story and his own character design. Now imagine if Balrog was a black re-skin of Ryu with maybe a tiny adjustment to his moveset, no backstory or given motivation of his own. That would be tokensim. Jin is given the same treatment as the other characters, so even if his sexual orientation is only a blurb that hardly comes up, he isn't a "token-gay" he's just another character who happens to be gay.

Gorrath:

erttheking:
I've got mixed feelings on the whole tokenism debate. On the one hand, I would like to see more fleshing out of a character dealing with their sexuality. On the other hand...do they always need to? I mean there are black characters in fighting games and they don't exactly flesh out their race and any experiences related to their race. Why not just let them have a gay character who just happens to be gay, end of story? We have plenty of characters who just happen to be heterosexual, end of story, why not the other way around?

That's the thing about tokenism though, people have started to equate it with things that are pretty plainly not tokenism. In this case, if Jin was just a "gay" re-skin of another character who got none of the same backstory treatment and the like, that would be tokenism. Take Balrog from Street Fighter. He's a unique character with his own moveset, his own story and his own character design. Now imagine if Balrog was a black re-skin of Ryu with maybe a tiny adjustment to his moveset, no backstory or given motivation of his own. That would be tokensim. Jin is given the same treatment as the other characters, so even if his sexual orientation is only a blurb that hardly comes up, he isn't a "token-gay" he's just another character who happens to be gay.

Good point.

I'm a little hesitant to say this but I feel like I lot of the pushback against him that I'm seeing on the web is the result of something I like to call "Diet-homophobia". People who don't say that they're homophobic, but they don't want it "shoved down their throats". Reminds me of when there was a Borderlands 2 thread way back when and people said that they were getting homosexuality shoved down their throats because Sir Hammerlock off handily mentioned that he had an ex-boyfriend. Either that or it was just tokenism.

erttheking:

Gorrath:

erttheking:
I've got mixed feelings on the whole tokenism debate. On the one hand, I would like to see more fleshing out of a character dealing with their sexuality. On the other hand...do they always need to? I mean there are black characters in fighting games and they don't exactly flesh out their race and any experiences related to their race. Why not just let them have a gay character who just happens to be gay, end of story? We have plenty of characters who just happen to be heterosexual, end of story, why not the other way around?

That's the thing about tokenism though, people have started to equate it with things that are pretty plainly not tokenism. In this case, if Jin was just a "gay" re-skin of another character who got none of the same backstory treatment and the like, that would be tokenism. Take Balrog from Street Fighter. He's a unique character with his own moveset, his own story and his own character design. Now imagine if Balrog was a black re-skin of Ryu with maybe a tiny adjustment to his moveset, no backstory or given motivation of his own. That would be tokensim. Jin is given the same treatment as the other characters, so even if his sexual orientation is only a blurb that hardly comes up, he isn't a "token-gay" he's just another character who happens to be gay.

Good point.

I'm a little hesitant to say this but I feel like I lot of the pushback against him that I'm seeing on the web is the result of something I like to call "Diet-homophobia". People who don't say that they're homophobic, but they don't want it "shoved down their throats". Reminds me of when there was a Borderlands 2 thread way back when and people said that they were getting homosexuality shoved down their throats because Sir Hammerlock off handily mentioned that he had an ex-boyfriend. Either that or it was just tokenism.

Well I'm not huge on the term "homophobia" in most senses anyway, but that's a semantic quibble. I agree with the heart of what you're saying here. The notion of, "Gay people are fine, I just don't ever want to have to see them represented in anything!" smacks of bigotry in the same way, "Black people are fine, I just don't want one of them living next to me. " does. What galls me are those that use that, "shoved down our throats" line in the case of homosexual imagery/ story but then go on to defend the right of artists to sexy up female characters.

I for one stand on the, "Let the artist do what they want side." Sexy female character? Awesome, love me some sexy female characters! Character who bangs on about being gay every ten seconds? Awesome, bet someone's really into that too! Character who's sexuality is totally unimportant and isn't even mentioned? Awesome, get to make up whatever I want to in my head! I support these and every shade in between.

Wait wait wait, a gay character in a game about you pummeling someone's face in? Unless it's going to have A. a romance sub plot, B. a sex scene or C. the ability to use my dick as a weapon this is nonsensical. Wait, Mortal Kombat had a story? Colour me surprised.

I was under the impression that the whole "having gay characters" in a game was meant to be a minor thing, easter egg levels even. How often does sexuality come up in most video games anyway? This really does feel like shoe-horning racially diverse characters in at the last second to sell more copies, fucking failing industry.

SweetShark:

Lufia Erim:
Guilty gear. venom. Comon guys. Gay people have been in videogames a long time. This isn't news. I'm not say anymore about the subject because i know how quote happy people are.

Maybe because we already know Guilty Gear is from Japan, the most people said "ehhh, whatever, I saw worst from Japan". Also Vemon isn't only gay, but also a children lover [if I remember right].
What would happen if you had this kind of character in MK? CHAOS!!!!!! RAGEEEEE!!!!!! CCCOOOMMEENTSSSSS!!!!! TTHHHRREEEAAADDSSSS!!!!!!

The sad this is. That makes a lot of sense. Is that why no one bats an eye when the japanese hav gay tran animal jello characters?

DerangedHobo:
How often does sexuality come up in most video games anyway?

Pssst. Every time a character's main motivation is "MY WIFE IS DEAD" that's their sexuality coming up as a central character trait. That literally happens several times in the series we're talking about right now.

Lufia Erim:

SweetShark:

Lufia Erim:
Guilty gear. venom. Comon guys. Gay people have been in videogames a long time. This isn't news. I'm not say anymore about the subject because i know how quote happy people are.

Maybe because we already know Guilty Gear is from Japan, the most people said "ehhh, whatever, I saw worst from Japan". Also Vemon isn't only gay, but also a children lover [if I remember right].
What would happen if you had this kind of character in MK? CHAOS!!!!!! RAGEEEEE!!!!!! CCCOOOMMEENTSSSSS!!!!! TTHHHRREEEAAADDSSSS!!!!!!

The sad this is. That makes a lot of sense. Is that why no one bats an eye when the japanese hav gay tran animal jello characters?

Japan is WAY ahead of us on this shit, even if some of their portrayals can be a bit insensitive. One of the benefits of more diverse casts is that your minority casts aren't put under the same level of scrutiny. You avoid the Smurfette problem.

The Wooster:

DerangedHobo:
How often does sexuality come up in most video games anyway?

Pssst. Every time a character's main motivation is "MY WIFE IS DEAD" that's their sexuality coming up as a central character trait. That literally happens several times in the series we're talking about right now.

"My wife is dead" isn't a sexuality. I've even known gay guys to assume the term of wife and proudly so (albeit I've heard others that I don't personally know quite definitely against the maintaining of the term and I get why).

I also seem to remember a game I played where a character's "wife" that was kidnapped ended up being some sort of sheep.

EDIT: By sexuality are we talking primarily orientation or just issues pertaining to "sex partners" in general?

Adultratedhydra:

Suprised theres less focus on the Vastly improved female character designs. Sonya actually looks like special forces now rather than army costumed hooker.

Don't be silly, female character designs is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO last year. Though I could've done without carapace boobs D'Vorah, a bit unnecessary. But I will say I sorta liked the older Sonya design if only because nearly everyone else in the game that wasn't a ninja was in varying degrees of undress and how over-the-top the series is in general.

Honestly I'm not sure I can buy the confrim myself. Not because he's gay, no, just that it took a dev outside of the game to confirm it, because I figured he was

It just seems a bit like a cop-out. Like they can take it back and say it was never in the game to begin with if it got bad press and that all the hints were just you projecting your own wants onto the character. I mean, I actually have emotions towards Kung Jin, mostly because of how abominably STUPID and impulsive he is most of the story mode, so he's already better than most other gays Western devs have done, but it's not really confirmed in-universe. Just a dropped hint that be taken to mean a couple of things.

But, if we're talking about characters in this thread now, I've got to say that Cassie has got to be the blandest character. She's got nothing going for her other than being Sonya and Johnny's kid, who both have better scenes and lines than her, despite the story being pretty centered around her team. Her lines are...bad(and not in a so bad it's Cage way). And her moveset and animations are so boring, though she does have one of the best Fatalities in the game.

Edit: Also, I'm surprised people play the game for the story mode, the only thing that makes them somewhat interesting is the killing off of characters, everything else is honestly just par for the course, Outworld's got silly shit going down, Raiden brings everyone in, crap happens, boom, everything's good again.

Though I will admit the after-credits scene is pretty good in that it opens up alot of opportunities.

Spot1990:

Lightknight:
Is he stereotypically gay? How is he identified as such in the game?

They really don't draw much attention to it. This is the only reference to it in game.

... SERIOUSLY!??, people are getting worked up for this incredibly subtle moment!??, it's not like he's doing a Blowjobtality or something, it's just heavily implied!, even Raiden himself aknowdeleges that that really doesn't define who he is!

Check. Fucking. Mate.

Link:
In addition to resembling a blonde version of Mercury, some of Eagle's voice clips are remniscent of him (such as "the show must go on" and "no time for losers"). This has lead to speculation that since Mercury was homosexual, Eagle is as well. This is backed up by several of his Japanese winquotes, which seem to indicate that he is homosexual.

While it was recton'd into his back story only in CvS2 back in 2000, it still means that Street Fighter had a homosexual character in it before either Mortal Kombat even existed! (Hell, even before Zangief!)
I really fail to see what the big deal is about MK having a gay guy, they bleed the same as straight people :P

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