8 Bit Philosophy: Do We Crave Fascism? (Freud & Psychoanalysis)

Wow.... That.... Was more helpful than I was expecting. I tend procrastinate a lot when I yearn to be self employed. And yearn to be employed by someone else hoping they won't criticize me for my appearance. Now if I could just stop procrastinating when thinking about self employment.

I wonder if we crave fascism because we think WE will be the ones on top. That it's ok because we're just one lucky break or grand idea away from joining the elite. For example, voting conservative generally means you're homophobic or rich. But plenty of poor people vote conservative, even if they don't hate homosexuals. Hey tax breaks for the rich? Removal of social programs? Repressed wages? That's all well and good because I'll be rich soon and that all will be awesome when I'm rich. I just need that lucky break or grand idea to rise above all these poor people I'm clearly better than. That these grand ideas and lucky breaks never seem to happen doesn't deter them at all. Much like the people who play the lottery spending 500 dollars on tickets and then winning 300 dollars. The focus on that 300 dollar gain and celebrate how great the lottery is! Ignoring or simply unaware that they're actually down 200 bucks. But that's ok. One more win and I'll be in the black again. Except the whole system is designed for them to fail and most never make it into the black and almost no one stays there.

But we keep trying because we're just one win away from being the exception to the rule! Then all these things set up to make the rich richer and the poor poorer will benefit ME and that will be awesome!

Mid Boss:
I wonder if we crave fascism because we think WE will be the ones on top. That it's ok because we're just one lucky break or grand idea away from joining the elite. For example, voting conservative generally means you're homophobic or rich. But plenty of poor people vote conservative, even if they don't hate homosexuals. Hey tax breaks for the rich? Removal of social programs? Repressed wages? That's all well and good because I'll be rich soon and that all will be awesome when I'm rich. I just need that lucky break or grand idea to rise above all these poor people I'm clearly better than. That these grand ideas and lucky breaks never seem to happen doesn't deter them at all. Much like the people who play the lottery spending 500 dollars on tickets and then winning 300 dollars. The focus on that 300 dollar gain and celebrate how great the lottery is! Ignoring or simply unaware that they're actually down 200 bucks. But that's ok. One more win and I'll be in the black again. Except the whole system is designed for them to fail and most never make it into the black and almost no one stays there.

But we keep trying because we're just one win away from being the exception to the rule! Then all these things set up to make the rich richer and the poor poorer will benefit ME and that will be awesome!

Way to over simplify things, conservative does not equal "bad" and it does not mean you're homophobic, rich, or crave wealth, that's just daft.

inmunitas:

Mid Boss:
I wonder if we crave fascism because we think WE will be the ones on top. That it's ok because we're just one lucky break or grand idea away from joining the elite. For example, voting conservative generally means you're homophobic or rich. But plenty of poor people vote conservative, even if they don't hate homosexuals. Hey tax breaks for the rich? Removal of social programs? Repressed wages? That's all well and good because I'll be rich soon and that all will be awesome when I'm rich. I just need that lucky break or grand idea to rise above all these poor people I'm clearly better than. That these grand ideas and lucky breaks never seem to happen doesn't deter them at all. Much like the people who play the lottery spending 500 dollars on tickets and then winning 300 dollars. The focus on that 300 dollar gain and celebrate how great the lottery is! Ignoring or simply unaware that they're actually down 200 bucks. But that's ok. One more win and I'll be in the black again. Except the whole system is designed for them to fail and most never make it into the black and almost no one stays there.

But we keep trying because we're just one win away from being the exception to the rule! Then all these things set up to make the rich richer and the poor poorer will benefit ME and that will be awesome!

Way to over simplify things, conservative does not equal "bad" and it does not mean you're homophobic, rich, or crave wealth, that's just daft.

I keep reading my post but I don't see anywhere where I said they were "bad". Conservative selling points are lower taxes on the rich, higher taxes on everyone else. Low or non-existent minimum wage because it's not the government's place to tell employers how much to pay their workers. Abolishment of social programs because it's not the government's job to make sure you can eat and afford housing. And you simply can't even pretend that they don't hate homosexuals because they sure as hell don't. Voting for this party means you believe in some if not all of these statues. So if you do not join them in hating homosexuals then you must believe strongly in their economic plans. Plans that affect everyone who's not rich adversely and since I personally haven't met anyone who needed Food Stamps to afford food but doesn't agree that food stamps should exist. It logical to conclude that they think food stamps should be abolished.... after they personally don't need them to survive. That these changes would be good.... when they themselves aren't negatively affected by them.

Mid Boss:
I wonder if we crave fascism because we think WE will be the ones on top.

You couldn't have said it better. There are some people who don't just want policies they favor enacted out of moral or personal interest, but rather because the party you vote for represents your beliefs, and if that party imposes a fascist or domineering rule then that's the closest you can possibly come to being the one in charge, having society forced to conform to your beliefs, and having dissenters from your beliefs punished.

Mid Boss:

I keep reading my post but I don't see anywhere where I said they were "bad".

Just to be entirely fair, it is a bit of a misrepresentation. Most conservatives do legitimately feel that it's about personal freedoms. Maybe not a truly valid appraisal (freedom as long as you can afford it, aren't trying to have sex in a way they disapprove of, or marry someone they disapprove of), but it's not a calculating evil or selfishness.

That these changes would be good.... when they themselves aren't negatively affected by them.

But they are. The reality is that conservatives are, on average, poorer than liberals. It kind of makes sense when you think about it, if you have more money and better stability you can afford to pay higher taxes, and if you have more money there's a much larger probability that you went to college (which always has a left-pulling affect).

As an anarchist in spirit I have to heavily dispute the claim that we crave fascism in one form or another.

But well, I'm outside the norma anyways.

Tbh I just don't see how it all ties into fascist ideology. From what was shown here I concluded it's "most people want to be governed by a strong hand" idea. And fascism... as far as I remember it's extreme nationalism, that's not really the same thing.

Okay, so rather than seriously assessing fascism as a social phenomenon, the philosophers we're checking in with this week decided to take the route of Freud himself (ironically the same approach they seemed to be condemning, just from the other direction) and oversimplify things dramatically as well as fixate on sexuality to the exclusion of any other factors.

Talk about a tangent completely enveloping an argument...

We don't crave fascism, we just want to be free of responsibility. What people want is other guy making the hard choices for them so they can indulge in whatever they want. Freedom can be an incredible scary and demanding thing, sometimes it's just easier to give it to someone else.

I think complacency factors in to it, as well as the established notion of government; People who make decisions for the masses. We elect governments in to power, and allow them powers, to rule over us. But the individual becomes angry when the elected officials don't do what they wanted them to do. It's a kind of reverse fascism.

We crave fascism in that, some of us as Americans, need something to point at to say "That's evil! 'MURICA Fuck Yea" in between chugging Budweiser and eating our freedom fries dipped in butter, battered and deep fried. I don't personally believe people desire subjugation. It's a simple result of growing up and facing reality that in order to live a free life, we must first have the means, which requires a certain amount of subjugation and conformity in order to earn a living. As an American, I would love to live like some Europeans do, to be able to live within means and still take regular, state-required vacation time. But this is not my reality and I accept that simply because I do not have the means to change it.

What do i desire? I desire that people would stop take the lunatic that was Freud would stop being relevant. That man and his lunacy has perverted psychology and set it back multiple decades (although admittedly he wasnt alone in this, only the most known name). Please dont give him any more credit than he deserves.

As far as people craving fascism. I very much suggest people to read about The Third Wave experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

Do read the Chronology section, its truly fascinating how easily you can find your students turn fascists.

I do agree that a lot of people crave authority figures. This was true throughout human history. We had gods, kings, dictators and now we have celebrities, who many people will "listen and believe" to. This comes not from fascism however, but from responsibilty. People are responsible for a lot of things they do. but they do not want to be responsible for things they do. So they want somone else to take control, so they could blame that somone else whenever something goes wrong. this is prominent nowadays for blaming politicians for things not in their control (there is enough legitimate criticism, no need to add fictional, okay?) and especially noticable for us, gamers, that games get blamed for vast variety of issues, because people do not want to accept that they are responsible for themselves.

Mid Boss:
For example, voting conservative generally means you're homophobic or rich. But plenty of poor people vote conservative, even if they don't hate homosexuals. Hey tax breaks for the rich? Removal of social programs? Repressed wages? That's all well and good because I'll be rich soon and that all will be awesome when I'm rich. I just need that lucky break or grand idea to rise above all these poor people I'm clearly better than.

I dont agree that this is limited to conservatism, but the general idea you describe is what is named "american optimism". the reason it is named such is that for the most part it is limited to US and is not prevalent on other countries. Sadly, such optimism is misguided and what has lead to US capitalism go wild. US is very unique case when comapred to the rest of the world, both economically and socially, and should be looked at as such.

the narrator seems very enthusiastic about fascism

I find it mildly amusing how desperate the narator is to avoid the term 'religion'. People don't march in the streets holding placards that read "FREUD HATES GAYS!" Freud didn't invent any of this; all he did was provide a pseudo-scientific justifacation for it. So why blaim him for it - to the extent of excluding the other guilty parties?

Especially the ones that have been around for an order of magnitude or two longer than he was?

Mid Boss:
For example, voting conservative generally means you're homophobic or rich.

In the US wealthy people tend to vote Democrat and the poor tend to vote Republican. You also seem to have a extremely oversimplified view of the Republican values. Your statement is the equivalent of saying that if you vote Democrat you are probably homosexual or living on the state.

 

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here