Age of Distraction: Where Avengers Messed Up

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Age of Distraction: Where Avengers Messed Up

Avengers: Age of Ultron is a fun movie, but does it add anything substantial to the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

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I gree completely. It was enjoyable enough that I saw it twice without feeling burned (The second time some friends dragged me.), but other than the Vision Hammer scene was completely forgettable. The pacing was all over the place and there was too much time spent leading into other movies. Two much time was spent on the twins and vision. They should have just picked one to center on.

Well, I'd say that the Birth of Vision and the Maximoff Twins were pretty significant additions...

voltair27:
Well, I'd say that the Birth of Vision and the Maximoff Twins were pretty significant additions...

Oh Vision matters... to Phase 3. In this movie he sticks out like a sore thumb. The only people I talked to who were excited about him were already comic readers, everyone else was really confused by his presence.

The Maximoff Twins are better, but we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

Oh, please. I mean, your entire argument boils down to "Avengers I is more 'substantial' in that it's referenced in subsequent movies and Avengers II isn't" at a time when there are no movies subsequent to Avengers II. Do you seriously believe that the events in Age of Ultron aren't going to come up? Scarlet Witch isn't going to come up again? Vision isn't going to come up again? Nor his infinity stone? Hulk's disappearance isn't going to come up again? Cap & Tony's disagreement isn't going to come up again?

They're ALL going to come up again.

Also keep in mind that Ultron was born of Stark's hubris... and the Mind Stone. It also establishes that Stark is willing to go to unreasonable lengths to make the world secure(important for Civil War). Honestly, aside from the building of the team itself, I can't really say that the first Avengers was any more important in the long term than the second. And it would be a little weird to go straight from "The Avengers have formed and they are awesome!" to "And now they in an all out war against each other because reasons!"

I think that for Civil War to not be an abrupt "where the fuck did that come from" disruption of the MCU, it is important that they showed that the Avengers are important for more reasons than just one battle they fought in New York. Call it filler if you like, but they needed to be shown doing things together before we rip them apart.

Pyrian:
Oh, please. I mean, your entire argument boils down to "Avengers I is more 'substantial' in that it's referenced in subsequent movies and Avengers II isn't" at a time when there are no movies subsequent to Avengers II. Do you seriously believe that the events in Age of Ultron aren't going to come up? Scarlet Witch isn't going to come up again? Vision isn't going to come up again? Nor his infinity stone? Hulk's disappearance isn't going to come up again? Cap & Tony's disagreement isn't going to come up again?

They're ALL going to come up again.

It's not so much that the movies reference them, it's that they fit together. Almost everything about Phase 1 ties into Avengers 1, and just about everything in Phase 2 spins out of it. If you decided to skip Avengers, there'd be a giant hole in the MCU that doesn't make sense. (Iron Man's PTSD, the weapons build-up in Winter Soldier, why Loki is even more reviled by Jane/Asgard, etc)

But if you skipped Age of Ultron, there's only a couple things you're missing (Vision and the new Avengers members) which could just have easily be introduced in the Phase 3 films where they're actually relevant. Plus Phase 3 looks like it will have its own internal storyline leading up to Infinity War, where that robot army was just a tiny blip on the radar.

Sure, it's still pretty early and I could be wrong, but it's a lot easier to sweep the events of Age of Ultron under the rug than the previous movies.

Scars Unseen:
Also keep in mind that Ultron was born of Stark's hubris... and the Mind Stone. It also establishes that Stark is willing to go to unreasonable lengths to make the world secure(important for Civil War). Honestly, aside from the building of the team itself, I can't really say that the first Avengers was any more important in the long term than the second. And it would be a little weird to go straight from "The Avengers have formed and they are awesome!" to "And now they in an all out war against each other because reasons!"

I think that for Civil War to not be an abrupt "where the fuck did that come from" disruption of the MCU, it is important that they showed that the Avengers are important for more reasons than just one battle they fought in New York. Call it filler if you like, but they needed to be shown doing things together before we rip them apart.

I agree. But Age of Ultron could've easily gone one step further and ended with Iron Man and Cap still pissed at each other. It perfectly explains why Stark leaves the Avengers, and makes it easier to generate tension between them in Civil War. There's no reason to smooth their relationship over if the rift will just be torn open again immediately.

I kinda got to agree/disagree. This film sets up a few threads to carry over to the next film that really couldn't have been set up in a single-hero one. The vision's creation, the Twins, and the dissolving of the original avengers and introduction of the new team. It also laid hints as to what could be the cause of civil war. Remember, during the film you have Ultron tearing shit up to the point of global threat level significance, and before that you have the cause of the Hulk vs Hulk-Buster fight. You also have seeds sown about why they could fight with each other, that while "resolved" in order to save the world, still would factor in to decisions and thoughts. Tony is still the creator of Ultron and it will have consequences. There is a new team and that may tear Cap's loyalties between the two. Add onto that the hints of Wakanda and about Fury's representative status and you have a recipe for a lot of political uproar to justify the tensions that would cause civil war.

But does that make the film only a means to get to Phase 3 then? Perhaps a little. It did continue Tony's arc, though none of the other characters seemed to have clear continued progression. Thor was a fighter, and aside from perhaps the spring scene (which may or may not demonstrate some character growth compared to the beginning of the MCU, I'm not sure, it was too short a scene) he didn't do much else besides some good scenes and as a means to verify that the Vision was (trust)worthy. Captain I don't know about, still haven't seen winter soldier so can't say if I missed something there or not carried through or continued. Hulk and Widow's thing seemed a bit rushed to me though. Not bad, and makes sense, but I wish it was something more introduced and explored prior and then wrapped up here, as it is it feels like there is a middle part I was missing. I did like Hawkeye's stuff though, and without his own movie, it seemed a good way to flesh out his character where he wouldn't be anywhere else before the original avengers disolved.

Still enjoyed the film, and I think there is more in the movie to make it have purpose then argued. Hard to say there isn't til the next films are released and any hints we missed can be referred back to. I will agree that it could have done a lot more to continue characters or tie up Phase 1.

I agree but I also think everything this side of the first Avengers movie is about keeping the status quo.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier flipped everything on its head... until both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Age of Ultron quietly omit that it ever happened.

Evonisia:
Captain America: The Winter Soldier flipped everything on its head... until both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Age of Ultron quietly omit that it ever happened.

No they comment on it a lot. Even at the beginning. When strucker says "technically I work for shield" Cap replies "well then youre out of a job". Then entire deal with Nick fury and having to find a an old helicarrier to help out. Shield is gone and "New Avengers" is the temporary replacement.

I don't watch the TV show so I wouldn't know about that. Moviebob seemed to indicate it was integrated into the show.

I'd argue that Iron Man 2 is still the gold standard for unnecessary Marvel Movies.

Fanghawk:

It's not so much that the movies reference them, it's that they fit together. Almost everything about Phase 1 ties into Avengers 1, and just about everything in Phase 2 spins out of it. If you decided to skip Avengers, there'd be a giant hole in the MCU that doesn't make sense. (Iron Man's PTSD, the weapons build-up in Winter Soldier, why Loki is even more reviled by Jane/Asgard, etc)

But if you skipped Age of Ultron, there's only a couple things you're missing (Vision and the new Avengers members) which could just have easily be introduced in the Phase 3 films where they're actually relevant. Plus Phase 3 looks like it will have its own internal storyline leading up to Infinity War, where that robot army was just a tiny blip on the radar.

Sure, it's still pretty early and I could be wrong, but it's a lot easier to sweep the events of Age of Ultron under the rug than the previous movies.

Hold on, Vision and the Maximoffs may be a few items, but they're incredibly important characters. Perhaps the Maximoffs could have been introduced later, but Vision and Ultron are tied together inherently. You can't spontaneously have the Vision appear without Ultron and skipping over Ultron would be a terrible idea since he's a pretty major character.

Aside from that, there's also the revelation of the Mind Stone itself, which is a pretty big deal for the MCU. Age of Ultron may not have been tied into the Phase 2 movies as much (which can also be argued seeing as they were dealing with the results of Avengers 1, and Winter Soldier), but you can be sure that its repercussions will be felt for a while.

Why is everybody so sure that Ultron is gone for good? The last copy of him is confronted, alone, by the one character who has told everyone else that he would "rather see [Ultron] alive than dead". He only agrees to kill Ultron because Ultron is a threat to the entire planet. When Vision finds that last Ultron, Ultron has been completely removed from any source of power. His clones are all destroyed, all his work has been dismantled, even his last body has large parts of it torn off and worst of all, he's been permanently disconnected from the internet.

So now we see Vision alone in the woods with a unique form of life that he'd like to keep alive, and in an off-screen flash of light kills him? I'm calling bullshit on that. There's pretty much no way Vision isn't hiding him somewhere that he believes Ultron can't become a threat again (and thus, most certainly will become a threat again).

piscian:

Evonisia:
Captain America: The Winter Soldier flipped everything on its head... until both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Age of Ultron quietly omit that it ever happened.

No they comment on it a lot. Even at the beginning. When strucker says "technically I work for shield" Cap replies "well then youre out of a job". Then entire deal with Nick fury and having to find a an old helicarrier to help out. Shield is gone and "New Avengers" is the temporary replacement.

I don't watch the TV show so I wouldn't know about that. Moviebob seemed to indicate it was integrated into the show.

They make jokes, but they basically have S.H.I.E.L.D. again. Same equipment, same seemingly limitless amount of supplies, same control over the governments of the world (that base didn't build itself).

It's basically The Avengers + Not-S.H.I.E.L.D. but still S.H.I.E.L.D. at this point.

A pity, it would have been interesting to see who they manage without a monolithic organisation backing them up. Winter Soldier's only remaining influence was giving us the Twins, and explaining why they're initially hostile. Beyond that? Might as well have never happened.

sirtommygunn:
Why is everybody so sure that Ultron is gone for good? The last copy of him is confronted, alone, by the one character who has told everyone else that he would "rather see [Ultron] alive than dead". He only agrees to kill Ultron because Ultron is a threat to the entire planet. When Vision finds that last Ultron, Ultron has been completely removed from any source of power. His clones are all destroyed, all his work has been dismantled, even his last body has large parts of it torn off and worst of all, he's been permanently disconnected from the internet.

So now we see Vision alone in the woods with a unique form of life that he'd like to keep alive, and in an off-screen flash of light kills him? I'm calling bullshit on that. There's pretty much no way Vision isn't hiding him somewhere that he believes Ultron can't become a threat again (and thus, most certainly will become a threat again).

Seems par for the course in the comics. The one vision destroyed was just the last one online, as long as the cortex of any of those bodies survived as soon as someone powers it up he'll be back.

piscian:

sirtommygunn:
Why is everybody so sure that Ultron is gone for good? The last copy of him is confronted, alone, by the one character who has told everyone else that he would "rather see [Ultron] alive than dead". He only agrees to kill Ultron because Ultron is a threat to the entire planet. When Vision finds that last Ultron, Ultron has been completely removed from any source of power. His clones are all destroyed, all his work has been dismantled, even his last body has large parts of it torn off and worst of all, he's been permanently disconnected from the internet.

So now we see Vision alone in the woods with a unique form of life that he'd like to keep alive, and in an off-screen flash of light kills him? I'm calling bullshit on that. There's pretty much no way Vision isn't hiding him somewhere that he believes Ultron can't become a threat again (and thus, most certainly will become a threat again).

Seems par for the course in the comics. The one vision destroyed was just the last one online, as long as the cortex of any of those bodies survived as soon as someone powers it up he'll be back.

Na, that was the last one. However, in classic comicbook style we didn't see the last one get destroyed did we? We saw it lung at Vision followed by a cutaway and a blinding light from the gem. Given that Vision was so adamant that Ultron was Unique, and he didn't want to destroy him, but must can we really assume that Vision actually destroyed him. Also given that The Vision isn't actually a pure Vision and actually

Looking at it Vision probably Absorbed Ultron, and will later emerge out of the Vision. Kinda how he's done so in the past. After all The Vision had a delayed subroutine to rebuild Ultron the first time. So Ultron Version Unknown will be a Evil Doppleganger of The Vision, is my bet.

I didn't like how there was no explanation as to why the Avengers were the Avengers again. In the last Avengers movie they all go there separate ways, through the phase 2 they have no interaction throughout all of their individual movies. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere they're a team again with no explanation as to why. I get that they were going after Hydra, but a scene where they reform would have been nice.

I'd argue that Iron Man 3 is more filler than Age of Ultron.
Age of Ultron establishes Tony's fear for the world and his desire to protect it post-Avengers with a single, well made scene after Scarlet Witch messes with his mind.
Iron Man 3 takes an entire movie, a subplot with a boy sidekick, and the introduction and subsequent destruction of AIM to tell the same story.
I mean, Iron Man 3 seemed to show that Tony was stepping away from the superhero mantle, and embracing his more "consultant" role: he'll always be Iron Man, but he won't be as active. AoU immediately resets that, and the only differnce that Tony develops post-Avengers is he no longer has the Arc Reactor in his suit. Hell, i t even shows that Tony's still tinkering and building new suits with Veronica, F.R.I.D.A.Y, the Mark 46 (I think is its number), and even Ultron.

Also, the claim that Vision didn't matter in this movie makes me think you saw a completely different film. Vision brings the team back together after Tony still messes with AI, which smooths over the in-team conflict so they can fight together against Ultron. It also shows Stark always putting the future in his hands (to build a suit of armor around the globe - the Fifty States initiative), an attitude that will undoubtedly cause conflict in Civil War when the "bigger baddie" is other heroes. Vision also brings a concrete presence to the stones on Earth, not the proxies of the Tesseract or Scepter. Vision also serves to distinguish Stark - the lack of JARVIS in the suit means that Stark is more alone than he has been.

Ultimately, I don't think that it's fair to argue that Age of Ultron isn't important. The crux of your article revolves around post-Avengers projects mentioning Avengers. The team up wasn't even really necessary the first time - why does Thanos use Loki when he could just take Loki's scepter? Why is there an army of aliens at the ready? Why does Loki, from the lackluster original Thor, need his own spotlight? The character development in Avengers is hardly there - everyone enters how they leave, just more willing to work on a team, despite leaving alone. I guess Avengers introduces Mark Ruffalo's Hulk and Hawkeye, but both of them could be introduced at any time - possibly even in Agents of Shield. Avengers only became truly significant to the universe with Winter Soldier and Iron Man 3.

People bring up that Avengers didn't address the damage the fight causes, but ignore that would bloat the movie and lead to unnecessary filler CGI sequences (Man of Steel). But the events do get addressed and analyzed in other MCU works, and give time and context for the audience to digest the full significance of the fighting, not just the on screen events (Daredevil, Agents of Shield). Asking for the events AND analysis in one movie would have lead to either a three-four movie, or a film with no center.

Avengers became a cornerstone once the Phase 2 building was finished. Before that it was just a film with a big cast.
Avengers 2 can't be compared until it has similar time to build a legacy moving into Phase 3.

Virtual Boy:
I didn't like how there was no explanation as to why the Avengers were the Avengers again. In the last Avengers movie they all go there separate ways, through the phase 2 they have no interaction throughout all of their individual movies. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere they're a team again with no explanation as to why. I get that they were going after Hydra, but a scene where they reform would have been nice.

Yeah, that bugged me with the start, especially considering Iron Man 3 seemed to say that Tony Stark would be stepping back from the full Iron Man mode. Maybe Agents of Shield explains it, but the beginning was a tad hand-wavy. Especially considering Shield's collapse in Winter Soldier, it makes me wonder who is actually contacting them. They say Cap's the leader, but I'm not sure how he has Thor's number. Even the "Lullaby" for the Hulk seemed like a relatively practiced element, but there was no in-universe explanation for the reformation.
That said, the movie quickly made me ignore the reformed team. They had to fight Hydra to address their presence, and it gave a nice setup to Ultron - a problem that demanded the team reunite.

F-I-D-O:

Virtual Boy:
I didn't like how there was no explanation as to why the Avengers were the Avengers again. In the last Avengers movie they all go there separate ways, through the phase 2 they have no interaction throughout all of their individual movies. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere they're a team again with no explanation as to why. I get that they were going after Hydra, but a scene where they reform would have been nice.

Yeah, that bugged me with the start, especially considering Iron Man 3 seemed to say that Tony Stark would be stepping back from the full Iron Man mode. Maybe Agents of Shield explains it, but the beginning was a tad hand-wavy. Especially considering Shield's collapse in Winter Soldier, it makes me wonder who is actually contacting them. They say Cap's the leader, but I'm not sure how he has Thor's number. Even the "Lullaby" for the Hulk seemed like a relatively practiced element, but there was no in-universe explanation for the reformation.
That said, the movie quickly made me ignore the reformed team. They had to fight Hydra to address their presence, and it gave a nice setup to Ultron - a problem that demanded the team reunite.

You're partially right about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. explaining it. The episode before the movie came out had Coulson discovering the location of Loki's sceptre and Strucker, then passing the info on to Maria Hill. I would assume she or Tony gathered the Avengers together between that and the movie. They probably didn't show the get-together scene so they could jump into the action immediately.

Although . . . now that I think about it, neither the show nor any of the other movies make mention of the team hanging out together on a regular basis, like Age of Ultron implies. Maybe they've been hanging out at Avengers Tower together this whole time? Seems weird, and probably should've been addressed in Winter Soldier at the very least.

Fanghawk:

I agree. But Age of Ultron could've easily gone one step further and ended with Iron Man and Cap still pissed at each other. It perfectly explains why Stark leaves the Avengers, and makes it easier to generate tension between them in Civil War. There's no reason to smooth their relationship over if the rift will just be torn open again immediately.

My friend was supposed to go with us to see it, but he got tied up so we went without him. The next day, he went and saw it with another group, and this was one of his criticisms. He liked how Cap and Iron Man were at each others' throats for pretty much the whole movie, but then that end just punched it all in the head. And it's totally true. Every time in the movie those two yelled at each other, I kept going, 'Civil War, Civil War,' but then they patch it up at the end.

Now, I think Captain America would have tried to patch things up even if he still wasn't completely cool with Stark. That's just the type of guy he is. Leave on good terms, even if it's hard. But Stark? No. I think he should have gotten in a parting shot to show that no, everything wasn't all roses between them again.

As a movie I very much liked it. I don't think it was as good as the first one though. I also don't feel that any movie "needs" to exist. That is a bit of a pedantic point to make, in my opinion. It had one major impact which was not done particularly well though. The main thing was to introduce the heroes of Earth to the Infinity Stones. In that respect, the most important scene was the stinger. Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

But does it need to exist? None of them need to exist. It moved the MCU forward, just in more baby steps than the previous films have done. It makes me wonder if you are going to be essentially reprinting this article after Antman comes out. That will also probably not progress the MCU in any meaningful way other than to introduce more characters.

Baresark:
As a movie I very much liked it. I don't think it was as good as the first one though. I also don't feel that any movie "needs" to exist. That is a bit of a pedantic point to make, in my opinion. It had one major impact which was not done particularly well though. The main thing was to introduce the heroes of Earth to the Infinity Stones. In that respect, the most important scene was the stinger. Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

But does it need to exist? None of them need to exist. It moved the MCU forward, just in more baby steps than the previous films have done. It makes me wonder if you are going to be essentially reprinting this article after Antman comes out. That will also probably not progress the MCU in any meaningful way other than to introduce more characters.

When I say "need to exist", I mainly mean what in terms of what it contributes to the overall universe. And in Age of Ultron's case, I'd say it's mostly spinning its wheels until Phase 3 gets here.

That's fine with a standalone movie (like Ant-Man, for example) but very new for Avengers, which is supposed to be about big defining threats that no one hero can face alone. I mean, Loki is a major villain across three films. Thanos will be a cosmic villain across 3-6 films by the time it's done. But Ultron just gets one - and given that the ending very much seems like it's restoring the status quo, his impact is limited by comparison.

I think part of the issue is that one of the major things that happens in Avengers 2 is the reveal of the infinity stones. To us in the audience this doesn't matter much because we saw Guardians of the Galaxy, however this is the first time the heroes on Earth understand what is happening with Thanos and the stones. The importance of the reveal is diminished because we the audience know more than the characters.

I think when considering the movie as a whole there is actualy a huge amount of important stuff happening all the time, but the vast majority of it is foreshadowing.

To list a few things. Hydra has basicly been eliminated with all the key leaders dead or missing (this is elaborated on in the TV show), shield is back and in public (everything in the TV show upto then has been covert), Wakanda is name dropped as the source of vibranium and the character klaw is introduced which is obviously important to the upcoming black panther movie.

Stark and cap's conflict obviously will be brought back up in civil war, thor's dream/vision im guessing is hinting at ragnarok which puts him conviently out of the way during civil war, the hulk dissapearing at the end also puts him out of the way, arguably the MCU avengers two most powerful characters out of the picture for the forseable future.

The constuction of a training facility, said facility possibly being used to train and examine all future powered indivuals as part of the registration act (the TV show "explains" how the inhumans become so wide spread)

There are a few little moments aswell such as vision flying in to save scarlet witch, alluding to their future romance. As i said loads of stuff happening all the damn time but it's all foreshadowing for future movies.

Forgive me for skipping out most of this qoute but i wanted to talk about this bit.

Baresark:
Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

Personaly i think they handled the introduction of vision well, i was already aware of him from the comics so perhaps my judgement is alittle biased though. As for his powers, particularly the density shifting he does use it in the film, numerous times during the fights especialy against the ultron drones vision phases he hands/arms straight through the enemies to rip them apart, easy to miss though because the fights scenes are very often fast and busy.

Seishisha:
I think when considering the movie as a whole there is actualy a huge amount of important stuff happening all the time, but the vast majority of it is foreshadowing.

To list a few things. Hydra has basicly been eliminated with all the key leaders dead or missing (this is elaborated on in the TV show), shield is back and in public (everything in the TV show upto then has been covert), Wakanda is name dropped as the source of vibranium and the character klaw is introduced which is obviously important to the upcoming black panther movie.

Stark and cap's conflict obviously will be brought back up in civil war, thor's dream/vision im guessing is hinting at ragnarok which puts him conviently out of the way during civil war, the hulk dissapearing at the end also puts him out of the way, arguably the MCU avengers two most powerful characters out of the picture for the forseable future.

The constuction of a training facility, said facility possibly being used to train and examine all future powered indivuals as part of the registration act (the TV show "explains" how the inhumans become so wide spread)

There are a few little moments aswell such as vision flying in to save scarlet witch, alluding to their future romance. As i said loads of stuff happening all the damn time but it's all foreshadowing for future movies.

Forgive me for skipping out most of this qoute but i wanted to talk about this bit.

Baresark:
Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

Personaly i think they handled the introduction of vision well, i was already aware of him from the comics so perhaps my judgement is alittle biased though. As for his powers, particularly the density shifting he does use it in the film, numerous times during the fights especialy against the ultron drones vision phases he hands/arms straight through the enemies to rip them apart, easy to miss though because the fights scenes are very often fast and busy.

Oh yeah, I did forget about that. I guess those scenes had less impact than I had originally though. Thanks for the correction.

Where Age Of Ultron messed up was all the awkward/forced romance parts. I almost fell asleep during those sections. It was so painfully obvious they were trying to build deeper character, but those sections simply weren't entertaining whatsoever and did nothing for me.

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Did anyone actually enjoy that shit?

Iron Man 3 was the best of the series.

I respectfully disagree. Being better than 2 doesn't mean it was superior to the original.

Soviet Heavy:
I'd argue that Iron Man 2 is still the gold standard for unnecessary Marvel Movies.

This guy knows whats up. Ultron was fun enough to fill this space in the MCU and besides, Ultron is famous for always coming back in a new form. Maybe he kept a copy of his source code in a satellite? He had unlimited internet control for a period... The potential ramifications of this villain is more interesting than anything Ivan Vanko did.[1]

[1] Having to google the villains name when you remember most of the movie is not a great sign.

Yuuki:
Where Age Of Ultron messed up was all the awkward/forced romance parts. I almost fell asleep during those sections. It was so painfully obvious they were trying to build deeper character, but those sections simply weren't entertaining whatsoever and did nothing for me.

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Did anyone actually enjoy that shit?

It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

Yuuki:

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Personally I think they screwed up the editing with the monster line, I have a feeling it was supposed to be a reference to her training and how she learned to kill without remorse, the timing was just bad and you can see the cut in the scene.

OT: I say it's all about seeing where things go from here and planting the seeds for Civil War next year, and as others had said the reveal of the infinity stones is greatly diminished since we've known about them for about three years now and it was really only a twist for the characters.

I've also read that quite a bit was cut, especially Thor's stuff. I agree with others that we can't really judge the impact on subsequent films without actually having any.

murrayb67:
It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

Still can't take her seriously when characters like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor are around. We've actually seen those heroes at their strongest and weakest, we can sympathize with what they've been through, and we can respect them at the height of their amazing power.

Black Widow is pretty much just all talk. "Ohhh my past, my training, ledger is red, etc" well boo fucking hoo missy -_-

But I guess I still appreciate her being around because she's has some NICE...err...assets.

Yuuki:

murrayb67:
It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

Still can't take her seriously when characters like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor are around. We've actually seen those heroes at their strongest and weakest, we can sympathize with what they've been through, and we can respect them at the height of their amazing power.

Black Widow is pretty much just all talk. "Ohhh my past, my training, ledger is red, etc" well boo fucking hoo missy -_-

But I guess I still appreciate her being around because she's has some NICE...err...assets.

I don't disagree with that, it's just that so much has been made of conflating her monster comment with her infertility. That's all I ws commenting on. Personally, I wish they'd have introduced Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel sooner. I find BWs importance somewhat inflated in the movies.

I think we may come to judge Age of Ultron more kindly once we settle into Phase 3. It has a different angle to the first Avengers sure but that doesn't make worse that makes it different. The significance of what we saw during Avengers Assemble was mostly apparent at the time because it's purpose was to tie four separate films together, and while it did lay some long-term groundwork (Thanos etc.) most of phase 2 (the exception being GotG) was continuations of the current Avenger's individual stories. I suspect with AoU, the reverse will be true and that most of the "payoff" will be in the subsequent movies which this has laid the groundwork for.

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