Ceramic Fanatic

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Ceramic is all right, but it's no aluminum.
Everything I've seen that requires ceramic requires just as much aluminum, and plenty of things require aluminum that don't require ceramic.
Adhesive was my problem for a while before I discovered the wonders of vegetable starch.
Edit: Preston is wrong, Institute rifles are post-war.

I haven't played it, only watched a stream of it. It seemed weird the guns and clothes were left behind, usually the things you want to have as many of as possible.

I bet this game would've worked better as a spin-off or new IP, like it seems like a spin-off of Fallout 3, which in turn is a spin-off of Fallout NV, and that's a spin-off of Fallout 2, the sequel to Fallout.

Still, it looks prettier, there's more than 2 colors and not everything always looks like shit.

The ceramic apocalypse is only the beginning, it's the copper apocalypse that gets ya.

I entirely agree about the limitations of the dialogue wheel. I actually don't understand why they chose that route - especially since 'yes' 'no' 'sarcastic' and 'annoyed' are the absolute worst possible options.

Especially with Minuteman quests -

"Are you with the Minutemen?"

Options: "Yes." "Yes I'm with the Minutemen." "I'm with the Minutemen, how can I help?" and "I'm with the Minutemen, what's the problem?"
I don't see any reason why they couldn't just record more lines. Go big or go home.

Also a second voice would've been nice - My character is dressed in military fatigues and has a bandanna around his mouth. The voice suits him, because he's a fairly generic looking guy, what with his machine-guns and rifles and mercenary attitude. My brother has welding goggles, a mohawk and a US flag tied around his mouth and carries a knife he named Bastard and is continually hopped up on Psycho Jet, yet his voice comes out normal and reasonable. Like he has brief moments of lucidity during his constant drug high.

Not sure if this fixes the dialogue system but there is a mod to allow you to see the full lines your character will say replacing the dialogue wheel. I have linked an article talking about it below

Mod for Dialouge

I do agree that the loss of the science and perk based dialogue options is a loss for the roleplay side but I think the combat side has improved enough that I don't use VATS

Id agree with the strip..if it wasn't for the fact Preston is holding up an institute advanced rifle <3

Seriously, that rifle is such a sweet gun, as soon as I got one I got addicted to it, pew pewing everyone that so much as looked at me funny.

Otherwise i loved the description of the dialogue wheel as the system bioware came up with in order to destroy rpgs xD
It's funny because it's true....

XDSkyFreak:
I bet y'all 100$ Fallout 4 will receive "best rpg" at the very least from the majority of outlets (escapists included, don't think I forgot the inquisition fiasco ... how the fuck any self respecting outlet can call something that has berely been out for a few weeks and no one but the most insane speed runners has had time to finish best anything of the year, let alone best game is beyond me)

Don't know if it'll make you feel better but it was the forumites who voted DA:I as GOTY that time, rather then the escapist site itself :/
You're right about your prediction though, there's a "what's your GOTY for 2015" thread around and surprise surprise, fo4 is one of the most recurrent nominees, even though im willing to bet most who did that are still playing through the game so haven't had the distance necessary to be truly objective, repeating the DA:I situation all over again.

The salvage system is kind of a mess when you start to question the quantities of materials you get out of certain things. 25 pound barbell, weighing 25 pounds: 4 steel. Institute Laser rifle: 4 Plastic, 1 Screw. (The screw is important, no pew pew without screw screw) Gold Watch weighing 0.1 pounds: 2 gold bars, a Gear and a Spring.

XDSkyFreak:
But hey, what the fuck do I know right? I mean I've only been around to play games since the NES days, it's not like I've been forced to see franchise after franchise I love get dumbed down and reduced to the most bland, wattered down "Streamlined" experience that even a retarded 2 year old surviving on a diet of his own farts can play!

I've long accepted the fact that AAA games nowdays are made for the magical extended audience people, having a more or less defined fanbase and making games with the appropriate budget to match is so last decade. We need to make investor confidence high people, INCREASE THE MARKETING BUDGET!

'Hey Erin I found this sweet pre-war tech... by some company called Nerf.'

I think i got my hopes to high for the crafting part. Fo4 is basically a prettier Fo3 and that's fine, but the tacked on settlements are boring.
Nothing you do matters and once you've defenses up the attacks stop completly, so it's more fun to NOT defend your settlements.

If you don't go for high charisma then the biggest part of the settlements are cut out from the game anyway, because there won't be any traderoutes nor shops. And the buildings you build aren't really used ontop of that. The settlers either stand at their designated workin' area or walkround aimlessly.

There's just nothing to it, it's empty and shallow.

Honestly, I'm waiting a bit for more 3rd party mods to come out before plunking into Fallout 4. The fan community will likely come up with something to fix the conversation and RP portions along with stuff that tweaks the combat system. Bethesda releases always seem to be one of those wonderland single player games where the game is valued more for what can be done with it than playing it vanilla.

Yep, this game has certainly turned our in-game habits completely on their head.

First rule of Fallout 4: junk items are not junk.

That's a straight up plasma gun from ol' 40k
Captch "xbone greatest games lineup"
No

Bummer about how bad the dialogue system is; I especially loved using scientific or medical knowledge to solve problems or just smooth talking my way through conflicts in previous games. Seriously, that makes me not want to get the game.

I like the idea of coffee cups and other junk being the prized possessions: it always felt a little silly to me to keep finding armor and other manufactured goods in places that were looted an extremely long time ago rather than crafting something both silly and awesome.

First it was aluminium, then it was screws, then it was copper and now it's steel for me. Yes, steel. I don't know how the hell I burnt through it all, but that's what I'm missing.
Then again, there's not a weapon in the game that I haven't maxed out (at least according to the wiki)...
The biggest disappointment in the weapons department is that the minigun and gatling laser both suck ass and you can't even mod them to be decent weapons.

Anyway, this comic hit the nail on the head. Picking up weapons is pretty much pointless - they're too heavy and they don't give enough materials, even with the perks to increase gains.

XDSkyFreak:
and there you've glanced on the head of the nail with the hammer. Fallout 4 is a shooter. a preety decent if not generic and boring shooter with a preety decent bullet time mechanic with some semblance of rpg elements bolted on the side. And that is all there is to it, Calling this ... abortion an RPG is worthy of hanging IMO, but just you wait for the anual masturbation contest ... I bet y'all 100$ Fallout 4 will receive "best rpg" at the very least from the majority of outlets (escapists included, don't think I forgot the inquisition fiasco ... how the fuck any self respecting outlet can call something that has berely been out for a few weeks and no one but the most insane speed runners has had time to finish best anything of the year, let alone best game is beyond me) ... and this in the year CD Projekt Red basicaly came around and pimp slaped the entire gaming industry in the face with their sausage and showed them not just how to make a fantastic RPG (take notes retardware and console-esda) but also how to be competent fucking devs and make a good game people want to buy. But hey, what the fuck do I know right? I mean I've only been around to play games since the NES days, it's not like I've been forced to see franchise after franchise I love get dumbed down and reduced to the most bland, wattered down "Streamlined" experience that even a retarded 2 year old surviving on a diet of his own farts can play!

I don't get this arguments at all. Fallout 4 is not a shooter. It doesn't play like a shooter, and the emphasis is clearly not on the shooting mechanics. I swear, they take mild steps to make the shooting mechanics not play like ass, and people act like they've turned into call of duty. It's just a slightly improved version of the last game.

The companion system is improved, the stats are improved, the game play is improved, the settlement system is awesome... If it has a flaw, it's that it tries to do too much. But is it really such a sin to try and improve the formula? The original games were a disorganized mess, with bad gameplay and Design. Bethesda has attempted to fix all that while keeping the RPG elements intact, and I would argue they've largely succeeded. I'll concede that the dialogue was a huge mistake, but otherwise it's just an improved version of Fallout 3.

Edit: and for all the complaints about how bad the opening was, it's still heads and shoulders above Fallout 2, everyone's darling.

Oh, good. Muggy will be most pleased for once.

It took this comic to make me realize that the mugs are made of ceramic. Probably should have put that on the search for option, lol.

Devieus:
I haven't played it, only watched a stream of it. It seemed weird the guns and clothes were left behind, usually the things you want to have as many of as possible.

I bet this game would've worked better as a spin-off or new IP, like it seems like a spin-off of Fallout 3, which in turn is a spin-off of Fallout NV, and that's a spin-off of Fallout 2, the sequel to Fallout.

Still, it looks prettier, there's more than 2 colors and not everything always looks like shit.

Wait, didn't 3 come out before New Vegas?

And what was with the ragging on how BioWare did conversation sequences? It felt off-topic.

I see the spirit of Muggy lives on.

image

Also, silly Preston, focused institute rifles are junk compared to pre war lasers.

Barbas:
Oh, good. Muggy will be most pleased for once.

Muggy:
While you were out, I spent six hours trying to reach a coffee cup up on a shelf. When I finally got it down I was so happy, I cried... I hate my life!

Darth_Payn:

Devieus:
I haven't played it, only watched a stream of it. It seemed weird the guns and clothes were left behind, usually the things you want to have as many of as possible.

I bet this game would've worked better as a spin-off or new IP, like it seems like a spin-off of Fallout 3, which in turn is a spin-off of Fallout NV, and that's a spin-off of Fallout 2, the sequel to Fallout.

Still, it looks prettier, there's more than 2 colors and not everything always looks like shit.

Wait, didn't 3 come out before New Vegas?

Technically yes, but to say NV is a spin-off of 3 is just an insult to the first two games, and there's undeniably a closer connection between NV and 3 than 3 and 1/2.

Don't let chronology get in the way of a good analogy.

I had the same experience in Skyward Sword.

"'You have found a goddess plume. It's a rare treasure few will behold.' Yeah, whatever, put it with the other seven I have no more use for. Now, where the hell can I get more tumbleweed?"

Here's the thing about the dialogue system though, it actually sounds like a real conversation people are actually having.

Too many RPGs have a feeling of characters simply going "Let me vomit all the relevant information in your general direction, Protagonist, so can periodically interrupt by asking me to 'tell you more about-' something." Some games do this much better then others, but unfocus your eyes for a second and the illusion is gone.

Fallout 4's implementation may not be perfect for a number of reasons, but the vast majority of conversations I've held run like actual conversations. Opinions are expressed, the protagonist has inflection and emotion in their voice, and not once have I said "Tell me more about".

Now this is clearly more on the side of the writing then the mechanics in question, and from the outside it's very hard to gauge how difficult it would be to get up to this level of quality in a more traditional dialogue system. I certainly wouldn't want to see every game use this approach but then again I certainly wouldn't want to see every game use any approach. It was a worthwhile experiment with solid if imperfect results, and in this particular example I'll gladly take the loss in flexibility for just how much better it is to listen to.

Devieus:

Darth_Payn:

Devieus:
I haven't played it, only watched a stream of it. It seemed weird the guns and clothes were left behind, usually the things you want to have as many of as possible.

I bet this game would've worked better as a spin-off or new IP, like it seems like a spin-off of Fallout 3, which in turn is a spin-off of Fallout NV, and that's a spin-off of Fallout 2, the sequel to Fallout.

Still, it looks prettier, there's more than 2 colors and not everything always looks like shit.

Wait, didn't 3 come out before New Vegas?

Technically yes, but to say NV is a spin-off of 3 is just an insult to the first two games, and there's undeniably a closer connection between NV and 3 than 3 and 1/2.

Don't let chronology get in the way of a good analogy.

Isn't that the way religions are born? "You just have to believe, my brother! Believe!"

NMC; Need More Copper.

Neo; Copper, lot's of copper.

I guess it's because "ceramic" rhymes with "fanatic" that Cory and Grey made the comic so, but I think aluminum is a way more fickle bitch to find in this game. Gave up once and coughed up 1,500 caps to get a shipment of aluminum at Diamond City (50 pieces); I think that was among the most exciting purchase I've made in the game, cause I immediately went back to Sanctuary and proceeded to mod the shit out of my T-60.

Fox12:

Edit: and for all the complaints about how bad the opening was, it's still heads and shoulders above Fallout 2, everyone's darling.

That... that is undeniable. I understand that the temple was supposed to be a tutorial of sort, but OH MY GOD, was it painful the first few times I played it.

bificommander:
I had the same experience in Skyward Sword.

"'You have found a goddess plume. It's a rare treasure few will behold.' Yeah, whatever, put it with the other seven I have no more use for. Now, where the hell can I get more tumbleweed?"

Which in turn reminds me of a particular flower in Legend of Grimrock II, whose flavor text describes it as being something an alchemist would be lucky to see one of in a lifetime. I think I had eighteen of them by the end of my playthrough, and never ended up using any.

vallorn:
I see the spirit of Muggy lives on.

image

Also, silly Preston, focused institute rifles are junk compared to pre war lasers.

That ... that actually raises a question I've been wondering about for a while. Is there any actual use to the Institute weapons? The Institute version shares only a fraction of the mods for the regular laser rifle/pistol, and yet, no matter what combination of mods it seems inferior in every way. It's really strange since the Institute weapons are not just harder to get (or at least, I found plenty of laser weapons before institute weapons), they're also described as being an improved version.

So, is there any actual use to them? Because just going off the stats I've seen they appear to be worse in every way, to the point that if an enemy was charging me I would sooner thrown the rifle at them rather than waste any of my hundreds of microfission cells.

FirstNameLastName:

vallorn:
I see the spirit of Muggy lives on.

image

Also, silly Preston, focused institute rifles are junk compared to pre war lasers.

That ... that actually raises a question I've been wondering about for a while. Is there any actual use to the Institute weapons? The Institute version shares only a fraction of the mods for the regular laser rifle/pistol, and yet, no matter what combination of mods it seems inferior in every way. It's really strange since the Institute weapons are not just harder to get (or at least, I found plenty of laser weapons before institute weapons), they're also described as being an improved version.

So, is there any actual use to them? Because just going off the stats I've seen they appear to be worse in every way, to the point that if an enemy was charging me I would sooner thrown the rifle at them rather than waste any of my hundreds of microfission cells.

Some of them contain screws. Aside from that, many of them are just ridiculously bulky and take up enormous amounts of your screen when you have them out so they restrict your FOV as well as being inferior to the other energy weapons.

I guess the main use for them is that they are easy to get early on in the game (If you take a certain quest early on you are guaranteed a bucket of them) and so you can use one till you replace it, aside from that I really don't see much use for them other than as some spare parts.

vallorn:

FirstNameLastName:

vallorn:
I see the spirit of Muggy lives on.

image

Also, silly Preston, focused institute rifles are junk compared to pre war lasers.

That ... that actually raises a question I've been wondering about for a while. Is there any actual use to the Institute weapons? The Institute version shares only a fraction of the mods for the regular laser rifle/pistol, and yet, no matter what combination of mods it seems inferior in every way. It's really strange since the Institute weapons are not just harder to get (or at least, I found plenty of laser weapons before institute weapons), they're also described as being an improved version.

So, is there any actual use to them? Because just going off the stats I've seen they appear to be worse in every way, to the point that if an enemy was charging me I would sooner thrown the rifle at them rather than waste any of my hundreds of microfission cells.

Some of them contain screws. Aside from that, many of them are just ridiculously bulky and take up enormous amounts of your screen when you have them out so they restrict your FOV as well as being inferior to the other energy weapons.

I guess the main use for them is that they are easy to get early on in the game (If you take a certain quest early on you are guaranteed a bucket of them) and so you can use one till you replace it, aside from that I really don't see much use for them other than as some spare parts.

I'm pretty sure that despite taking up a disgustingly large portion of the screen, they're actually lighter as well, so there's that. Even so, it really seems like they ought to be superior to the laser rifle, you know, the Institute having superior technology and improving the tech and all that.

I haven't checked, but perhaps they have better ammo capacity?

Fox12:
Fallout 4 is not a shooter. It doesn't play like a shooter, and the emphasis is clearly not on the shooting mechanics.

Let's revisit this statement in a bit.

The companion system is improved [...] the settlement system is awesome

Both have nothing to do with roleplaying - one is an added feature than doesn't allow for many roleplay options and the other is a trivial minigame with no real bearing on the overall game. Companions are especially shallow since most don't react to any choices you make - your faction alliances, the quests you've done (save for the one required for recruitment), the dialogue choices you've made all hardly have any impact on them. You may occasionally see the game note that they like or dislike whatever arbitrary actions you perform, just so you can maybe romance them or have them say nice things to you.

the stats are improved [...] the game play is improved

Bethesda has attempted to fix all that while keeping the RPG elements intact, and I would argue they've largely succeeded.

Stats are as meaningless as ever. You can be at STR 1 and do almost max unarmed damage. You can be at AGI 3 and max out stealth. The reliance on perks completely trumps the relevance SPECIAL. So what's the point of your SPECIAL score? To unlock more perks, of course. Their importance is so minimal that something that used to be the most important part of character building - allocating SPECIAL scores - is practically meaningless now as you can increase them whenever you level - as opposed to the original games where you had very few chances to do so, making each point all the more precious. You can have 10 in all your scores and still have little impact on your character's abilities. The only time I actually felt like my CHA score mattered was because it I was slightly better at the few persuade options in the game - but even that was a random chance of success so simply save-scumming could have solved them.

And then there's the perks themselves. Merging them with skills has made them become almost just as meaningless, rarely giving worthwhile additions to gameplay and quite a lot of them just giving % increases on actions or outright removing consequence for certain actions. I managed to play a high LCK/CHA character, going out of my way to only pick perks that had minimal impact on combat and still managed to blast my way through things with little difficulty. I never felt like these choices mattered in terms of gameplay and did little more than add some flavor to my character and how he shoots things slightly differently.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that there is little in the way of actual character building and progression - both in a narrative sense and in a gameplay stance - which the key aspects of any roleplaying game. The game doesn't focus on your ability to manage your character's abilities and progression is trivialized to the point where the only skill that matters in the game is your ability to shoot things (and even that is underdeveloped in it's own way).

This really isn't new though. Fallout 3 already had nearly the same lack focus on RPG-mechanics and Fallout 4 just further emphasized how little Bethesda cares for the genre. I'm baffled that anyone can call them roleplaying games when there is clearly a greater focus on action than character progression. I wouldn't even call them Action-RPGs, because that would imply it be a subgenre of RPG that implements action elements in a way that does not intrude on its RPG mechanics, rather than what it really is: an action game that implements minor RPG elements. It's in the same vain as Borderlands and the latest Far Cry game - open-world shooters with some numbers and perks. So when people say

Fallout 4 is not a shooter. It doesn't play like a shooter, and the emphasis is clearly not on the shooting mechanics.

I can't say I agree with that at all. It certainly plays like one and doesn't play much at all like an RPG.

Note that despite my ranting, I don't think this the game is bad because of this. It's a decent title and a competent action game but underdeveloped in many aspects. Had it used the focus on action to further expand on the mechanics shooting and provide better experience as an action game, then it may have been great. Not really Fallout, but a good action spin-off (certainly better than BoS). However even the action mechanics aren't too well developed. Sure shooting it's better than 3 or New Vegas, but it's not any better than something like Call of duty. Even the narrative could have been better by providing a more focused story along the lines of Mass Effect and The Witcher - something they again only made a partial effort to do. Honestly the game seems like a mish-mash of half-baked ideas with only the action mechanics standing out as the main focus, and even that doesn't shine.

While I definitely think the dialogue wheel is far too simplified compared to the previous games, I will give it props for being one of the more accurate dialogue wheels I have seen. Too many games that use them take your intended nice/mean/snark/ext. response and turn it up to 11. You tend to have a better feel for what your character is going to say in Fallout 4.

Choosing a mean response results in a fairly mean response not your character going off the deep end of no redeemable qualities.

ShakerSilver:
snip

Hmm, maybe. As much as I love the game thus far, I must admit that you make a good point. I do feel like they have a lot of good, but underdeveloped, ideas. As I've mentioned before, I'm not a fan of the bioware-style dialogue, since this isn't really a story driven game, and it doesn't fit. Having a fewer number of more focused ideas would probably be a better idea. In this regard I thank you're correct.

I find it hard to fault them too much, though. Even if their ideas need to be ironed out, it's a relief to see them try something new. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim... all excellent games, but they're all essentially the same. Even if the game is a hodgepodge of ideas, at least it's a fun hodgepodge that they can improve upon over time.

I still don't consider it a shooter, though. If it is, it's a rather poor one. I feel like the VATS system is still the central point of the game, for instance, and combat is treated like one option among many. I haven't had very many encounters that seemed to require combat.

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