Update Game of Thrones Ep2 Spoilers - Told Ya Snow

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Update Game of Thrones Ep2 Spoilers - Told Ya Snow

Spoiler warning: This article will contain spoilers from the Game of Thrones books, as well as the first five seasons of the show. It may touch on subjects the show hasn

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Everyone's favorite misery porn is back!

6 seasons already huh?

Guess that I really won't bother getting into GoT.

This episode, like all GoT season premieres, was kind of all over the place. It's like a big recap and showing the glimpses of each character's starting point for the season. There was only one major plot development and while it was VERY satisfying, a lot of it just felt like going through the motions. Still, it's what I anticipated, so it's not like it failed to live up to expectations for me.
I hope nobody was expecting the big reveal since there's no way they'd put that in the first episode. It needs to be given a lot of time so that the scene doesn't feel rushed and cheap. They can't do that when they have to show everyone where all the other characters are and what they're doing.

RedDeadFred:
This episode, like all GoT season premieres, was kind of all over the place. It's like a big recap and showing the glimpses of each character's starting point for the season. There was only one major plot development and while it was VERY satisfying, a lot of it just felt like going through the motions. Still, it's what I anticipated, so it's not like it failed to live up to expectations for me.
I hope nobody was expecting the big reveal since there's no way they'd put that in the first episode. It needs to be given a lot of time so that the scene doesn't feel rushed and cheap. They can't do that when they have to show everyone where all the other characters are and what they're doing.

I can also see what you mean by being all over the place, but honestly it didn't feel disconnected to me, since we've been following characters across entire continents since the very start.

Just for the record and courtesy; because the thread already warns for spoilers in the article we don't have to bother with them in the comments?

I don't know, I'll put this here as a spoiler warning, so everyone reading this; there be season 6 premiere spoilers ahead. Though to be fair, there's not much to spoil.

RedDeadFred:
I hope nobody was expecting the big reveal since there's no way they'd put that in the first episode.

You mean the completely inevitable resurrection of Jon Snow by Melisandre? I've been predicting that shit for ages now.

As for Melisandre's reveal from this actual episode, right at the end? I wasn't really impressed by it, it doesn't seem to matter much to me. It served to me as more punctuation that she's indeed going to resurrect Jon Snow; she's been horribly wrong about yet another 'Chosen One' and now that we know she's actually old and battered she'll probably go all "I'm done with this shit" and use her remaining life force ala Thoros of Myr to put all her eggs in the last basket she knows of, aka Jon.

But what really annoyed me was the Danny bit. "I'm the queen!" *everyone laughs* "I'm the wife of a dead Khal!" *everyone believes her instantly* Come now... Hell, everything going on in Essos, outside of Arya, reminded me how I lost every fuck I could give about Essos. Seeing that fleet go up in flames sealed the deal for me. It screamed of desperation to me to milk that Mereen cow until it's dead. Talk about meandering side plots good grief.

Cowabungaa:
It screamed of desperation to me to milk that Mereen cow until it's dead. Talk about meandering side plots good grief.

yeah, that was the one part of the premiere that really bugged me. It made no sense. Whether it was the sons of the harpy or the freed men who were opposing Dany, burning her fleet was against their interests since it completely removed the chance of her finally saying "man, screw this" and finally doing what she's nominally wanted to do from the start by leaving their town and never looking back.

Still, season 5 was pretty underwhelming, but I like where this one is starting. I have no idea what's going to happen now, and I don't have a whole lot of faith in the showrunners not to do something stupid to stir controversy whether it makes sense in the narrative or not, but I'm engaged enough to look forward to next week.

I never got why people are so interested in John Snow and why they are so eager to speculate on his (probably inevitable) survival.

He always struck me as the most boring man in Westeros.

Hades:
I never got why people are so interested in John Snow and why they are so eager to speculate on his (probably inevitable) survival.

He always struck me as the most boring man in Westeros.

He is one of the very few "good guys" left in Westeros (the rest of them are all over the world), and one of the only remaining attractive ones (which, given the soft porn nature of the show, it is important to give someone for the female public to swoon about). Not that it is a warranty in this show but, if he dies, who is going to fight against the not-zombies horde? Littlefinger? Sansa?

hermes200:

Hades:
I never got why people are so interested in John Snow and why they are so eager to speculate on his (probably inevitable) survival.

He always struck me as the most boring man in Westeros.

He is one of the very few "good guys" left in Westeros (the rest of them are all over the world), and one of the only remaining attractive ones (which, given the soft porn nature of the show, it is important to give someone for the female public to swoon about). Not that it is a warranty in this show but, if he dies, who is going to fight against the not-zombies horde? Littlefinger? Sansa?

Sansa getting tired of all this shit and going Valkyrie we can all agree would be the optimal plot twist

MCerberus:

hermes200:

Hades:
I never got why people are so interested in John Snow and why they are so eager to speculate on his (probably inevitable) survival.

He always struck me as the most boring man in Westeros.

He is one of the very few "good guys" left in Westeros (the rest of them are all over the world), and one of the only remaining attractive ones (which, given the soft porn nature of the show, it is important to give someone for the female public to swoon about). Not that it is a warranty in this show but, if he dies, who is going to fight against the not-zombies horde? Littlefinger? Sansa?

Sansa getting tired of all this shit and going Valkyrie we can all agree would be the optimal plot twist

It would definitely help make her more interesting.

I just think it would make little sense for her to turn into a warrior woman after spending all her life being a clueless and sheltered brat, being pushed around by other people actions. Right now, it would be more understandable if Cersei or Margarey went valkyrie than Sansa...

Melisandre is a hagraven! HISSSSSSS. But come on, lay hands on Jon already. If Thoros can do it Mel can do it with her pinky finger. And why haven't we seen Lady Stoneheart yet? I'm awaiting that scene where Drogon flies over the horde looking for Meysa, just to see a khal shit himself. So much stuff to look forward to this season.

As long as they keep the Greyjoy MinInvasion of Essos I'm going to be a happy trooper.

Also I didn't think it was too bad, it did all an opening episode was meant to without too many cock-ups.
Sand Snakes are still the worst group of characters in the show though.

Cowabungaa:

RedDeadFred:
I hope nobody was expecting the big reveal since there's no way they'd put that in the first episode.

You mean the completely inevitable resurrection of Jon Snow by Melisandre? I've been predicting that shit for ages now.

That's my point. Everyone is expecting it, so people might have thought it would happen right away.

The Mel thing was just whatever. An old crone disguising herself as a beautiful woman is nothing new in fantasy.

The Danny thing bothered me too. Are we really supposed to believe that they're just going to take her word for it when none of them had originally believed her? I get that they're pushing her as having a really commanding aura now, but I don't think the actress pulled it off well enough for it to be very convincing. I'll always have gripes with the Danny story though. IMO, it was the weakest part of the books, so it makes sense for it to be one of the weakest parts of the show (not that they haven't made other weak parts better and other better parts weaker).
Edit:

Hades:
I never got why people are so interested in John Snow and why they are so eager to speculate on his (probably inevitable) survival.

He always struck me as the most boring man in Westeros.

I found that he was a much more interesting character in the books. You really get to see his struggle with his vows and morality in general. You see him grow a lot more in confidence while still struggling with his old issues. Not only that, the show skips his best line in the entire series! In the book, he was originally going to hang Janos, but as the man begged and threatened, Jon stops and says that what they're doing is wrong. For a second, you think he's going to let him live. Then he says "Edd, fetch me a block."

If they start bringing characters back from the dead I'm done!

RedDeadFred:
The Mel thing was just whatever. An old crone disguising herself as a beautiful woman is nothing new in fantasy.

I spent some time thinking about it, and looking back I actually really like it. It's really indicative of how GoT plays with tropes. It just as easily eschews them as suddenly uses them. The Atlantic put it in words nicely:

After the show has spent so long jamming spears through handsome young prince heads in order to prove that it?s not reliant on fairy-tale tropes, it can occasionally shock simply by serving up some of the oldest magic tricks in the storybooks.

It also serves as a nice example of "show, don't tell". Because here we have this priestess from a far-flung corner of the world who has been on a spiritual journey to save the world. A journey not only many characters in the story but also we as viewers have not always really taken seriously.

But through the simple act of disrobing, both physically and magically, we now learn that she has been on this journey for probably decades upon decades. Maybe even centuries. It's a neat little visual cue to show how desperate and weary she must feel to lose what really must seem like the world's last hope if only because she as self-proclaimed mentor of said hope might not live long enough to see another. We and the characters might laugh about her silly prophesies behind her back and call her a con artist, but for her they truly mean everything.

So if this moment is an indication of character development to come she might be one of the most interesting and well-fleshed out characters of the season. Which would also make her inevitable sacrifice to resurrect Jon Snow all the more poignant. Might be, because GoT doesn't always treat its (female) characters with much respect.

Speaking of interesting characters, Lena Heady stole the entire episode during that beautifully acted scene of Jaime's arrival. In a way creating a very interesting contrast with Melisandre. Where Melisandre takes the entire weight of a world-defining prophesy on her back and internalizes it, Cersei is driven to the brink of madness by an extremely personal little prophesy and sets out to project it out on the world around her. Two completely different interpretations of the prophesy trope side by side. Neat-o.

It's when noticing moments like this I like GoT best. When I see it play around with tropes and prophesies, not only leaving the viewer somewhat uncertain, if only in the little moments (I feared for Podrick there for a second) but weaving a degree of uncertainty and thus humanity in the characters as well.

Malty Milk Whistle:
As long as they keep the Greyjoy MinInvasion of Essos I'm going to be a happy trooper.

Shit I nearly forgot about that. And even though the burning of Mereen's fleet still makes little sense in the moment, it now might actually be a useful happenstance in the long run. Danny tromps around with those Dothraki for a while, eventually escapes and comes back to a Mereen occupied by a Greyjoy who had set out to bed a Targaryen. And would ya look at that there's not only a new fleet available but it's also headed by a man of a greater Westerosi house. Jackpot.

canadamus_prime:
If they start bringing characters back from the dead I'm done!

That's old hat in GoT land. If anything it's somewhat of a returning thing. There's the wights 'returning' from the dead, Dondarion being resurrected multiple times, Lady Stark came back (and might still in the show, apparently it was hinted to last season) and we all know The Mountain is that 'new' Kings Guard member.

The Sand Snakes bothered me more than anything. I shared the sentiment that the Dorne thing was a drag in the last season, and now that situation seems like it's only going to get worst in this season. I hope Jaime and Bronn get a chance to stick it to them. Or hell, for the sake of irony they could have the Zombie Mountain wreck their shit. Oberyn was a cool character, but damn if his death didn't cause a lot of shit to fly.

With the way this show is, they'll either have them live for as long as possible since they're so detestable, or the fact that their treachery was all frontloaded in the first episode will ensure that retribution is swift and messy.

People aren't all that surprised by the show killing folks off for shock value anymore.

The problem is they keep shit going too long, there needs to be some resolution happening here and plot needs to actually PROGRESS. Last season was a whole bunch of dicking around with no payoff... Oh no people died, whoop-dee-shit, how about tying up some plot threads?

So, we are two episodes into Season 6, and... it is overall okay. The stuff at The Wall, with Bran, and with Sansa is pretty dang good, but other than that, most of the stuff is kinda meh or down right terrible. First the terrible...

Dorne is just continuing its severe lack of purpose and awfulness from last season. What a joke THAT dumpster fire of a plot is, and it is hands down the WORST writing in the entire show. Not one thing is redeemable about that whole disgrace and is only there so D&D can wank off on their shock deaths some more. Every character is a giant joke and a cardboard cutout used as a plot device. Awful awful awful. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes need to go. That goes for Winterfell and stupid ass Ramsay Snow as well. He wishes he was half the character Joffrey was. His entire purpose is a complete waste of time with how they are using him. They made him "important" when he has no real personality outside of being a complete monster to have any substance. His existence has been overstated and he needs to go. He doesn't even really drive the plot forth. Speaking of which, I am tired of these dumb betrayals that don't make any sense and are only used for shock value. Between Dorne and Winterfell in just two episodes, are you telling me that the guards to Doran and Roose who are only loyal to them are just okay with all this? There will be no dissension in the ranks? They all just want to stand around and nobody cares? REALLY? This is a complete joke, right? Ya see, it worked with the Red Wedding because Robb slighted Walder Frey and the Lannister's took advantage of that to stage an elaborate plan to kill off the King of the North to kill him when he least expected it on enemy grounds. NOT IN THEIR OWN DAMN THRONE ROOMS! What the hell is this? Shit, Ramsay is a bastard and even LESS of the North could give a damn about him than they already did Roose Bolton, and now they are out of favor with the crown because of Littlefinger's plans with Sansa. What can Ramsay realistically do here? He should of been drawn and quartered immediately. What a joke that all is. I can't wait for Jon to just march on Winterfell with the Wildlings and just end this little joke of a character for good. It is too good for him. Man... I wish Joffery was still around. At least his monstrous streak served a purpose.

Anyway, with the awful plot lines covered, we have the meh plotlines. Mereen... I guess we need more time, but Mereen just seems to be plodding along to really nothing right now. Danny is off with the Dothraki and pretty much out of action for now till the "Wonder Duo" finds her and finally gets things moving again... yawn... padding, padding, padding. That is Mereen right now. What makes Mereen great is Tyrion and Varys. Also, I didn't mind Tyrion's interactions with the dragons. yeah, it was faux suspense, but it did some good for Tyrion's character and was a sobering experience for him. I think that will bode well for the future. So that is all good. Speaking of padding, Arya is super padding the last two episodes. What a waste that all was. They could of just did what they did in one episode and just brought her back of the House of Black and White instead of drawing it all out for no real reason at all. Hopefully she actually accomplishes something now. :/

Then we have King's Landing. The scene with Jaime and the High Sparrow was damn good, but I am not sure how I feel about everything else right now. We shall see later, but it seems to be middling around right now with limited time to grow. Also, Jaime should of slapped Cersei for giving the Faith Militant power again like a moron. There is potential here,, but we will see. The books did a better job with the Jaime and Cersei storyline since they are drifting further and further apart, while in the show it seems to be opposite of that. Which is really unfortunate, cause Jaime starts to realize how toxic their relationship always was. It is surprising that the show is going the other way with that plot thread. It really doesn't help Jaime's character that much. Just like Stannis, I think D&D just don't know what the hell to do with them and end up butchering their characters instead of making them more compelling. That is just me, though.

And that leaves the Greyjoy's... I am actually a bit excited for this plot thread to get started. It will be interesting to see more of how they operate considering that they were criminally underused up to this point. Should be nice seeing Euron and hopefully Victarion, too. Of course my excitement is tempered because of how awful Dorne was. They can ruin this just as easily. Oh well. We shall see I guess.

All in all, it is better than last season so far, but that isn't saying a whole lot, and it can still get more obnoxious the longer it goes. Especially when Dorne gets involved. Bleh... So... yeah. Okay is the best I can give it after two episodes so far, and the season will be a lot better if they just end the Dorne and Bolton plot threads as soon as possible. The show will be able to breath better by ending those two really dumb plot lines.

You know, I still haven't finished Season 5, but I REALLY need to get caught up. Everyone posting Snow's picture everywhere with the "OMG spoilers inside" isn't really helping anything.

To support the post above me in one point: I thought Roose would kill Ramsay. Because that would have made a lot of sense.

Instead it's boring old wank.

Other than that, ep2 was a lot better than the first.

How could Roose not see that coming? His kid is a psycho which he knew about since forever who is desperate to keep his status, and he was lecturing him on being a mad dog so he obviously wasn't blinded by love.

But I suppose we needed more betrayal because he shanked Rob, so the only sensible thing now is that Ramsey gets fucked by Walder Frey, who is betrayed himself yet again.

Nurb:
How could Roose not see that coming? His kid is a psycho which he knew about since forever who is desperate to keep his status, and he was lecturing him on being a mad dog so he obviously wasn't blinded by love.

But I suppose we needed more betrayal because he shanked Rob, so the only sensible thing now is that Ramsey gets fucked by Walder Frey, who is betrayed himself yet again.

Yeah, really... Doesn't everyone realize by now not to mess with Walder Frey? It would be fitting if Ramsay is killed by Frey. Because, again, it would be too good for him to die in any dignified way. he needs a lame death like Doran and Roose got. Maybe even lamer. Maybe something like falling down the damn stairs or the Zombie Mountain smashing his head into a wall while he is pissing. Either one will do.

the silence:
To support the post above me in one point: I thought Roose would kill Ramsay. Because that would have made a lot of sense.

Instead it's boring old wank.

Sure, because a character that's interesting to watch has killed a boring character who's only purpose was to betray the Starks and to be a father of a psychopath. And you thought he'd live longer than Ramsey?

I really don't get people on the internet these days. Everyone is so eager to be a hater and to look for flaws in everything. Especially if it's popular. Oh that really gets people going. Popularity must be hated. GoT is still a good show. The fact that most of you stuck around for 6 seasons pretty much proves it. People don't do that when they get bored. It's so easy to lose interest in a lousy show. Maybe GoT is not as good as the books, but that means nothing since it's still leagues ahead of most current shows.

Honestly, while I still kind of detest the way Dorne has been haphazardly thrown in and the general portrayal of everyone and everything in it, the sand snakes going full stabby is something I can totally see happening in the books as well. While they're a lot less openly sociopathic in the books, they're routinely implied to be a bunch of very, very dangerous people.

Ramsey.. well.. actually I don't mind Ramsey, I generally find Iwan Rheon hella fun to watch (most of the time). I actually really liked the change of having him raised by Roose Bolton, and it's enabled his character to have a bit more substance rather than being the old "child concieved of rape will inevitably be pure evil because reasons" trope. If anything disappoints me, it's that they didn't give Roose as much development as his book counterpart, although I enjoyed watching Michael McElhatton in the role.

And hey, now we have Euron Greyjoy. Team "absolutely fucking horrible people who are fun to watch because they're kind of enjoying themselves" got a bit bigger.

No, the biggest thing that actually annoys me.. giving Melissandre a crisis of faith.

One of the ballsiest things about the books, I think, is the fact that Melissandre, a religious zealot who burns people alive as a sacrifice to a cruel and uncompromising god, is ultimately a hero, in fact she is in many ways the ultimate hero by the standards of heroic mythology within the universe itself works, because there is absolutely nothing she wouldn't sacrifice for the cause of good. She's an ancient, incredibly powerful being who has apparently devoted her entire life to this metaphysical war of good versus evil. She knows better than any character in the setting what is at stake if she fails, she is also (going by her POV chapters) aware that she can make mistakes or misinterpret her visions of the future.

At this point, it doesn't matter if R'hllor actually exists or if he sends Melissandre messages, or if she's just using some kind of magic to see the future, she's still seen and done enough at this point to be absolutely certain of herself either way. Giving her a little emotional breakdown so that Davos, of all people, can comfort her and reassure her with the knowledge that she doesn't need the Lord of Light to be awesome as if that's some kind of atonement that she needed just strikes me as not only really out of character, but also kind of cops on one of the more interesting things about Westeros as a setting, which is that there's very good reason to think that at least some of the religious mythology floating around is actually, 100% true.

That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.

evilthecat:
Honestly, while I still kind of detest the way Dorne has been haphazardly thrown in and the general portrayal of everyone and everything in it, the sand snakes going full stabby is something I can totally see happening in the books as well. While they're a lot less openly sociopathic in the books, they're routinely implied to be a bunch of very, very dangerous people.

Ramsey.. well.. actually I don't mind Ramsey, I generally find Iwan Rheon hella fun to watch (most of the time). I actually really liked the change of having him raised by Roose Bolton, and it's enabled his character to have a bit more substance rather than being the old "child concieved of rape will inevitably be pure evil because reasons" trope. If anything disappoints me, it's that they didn't give Roose as much development as his book counterpart, although I enjoyed watching Michael McElhatton in the role.

And hey, now we have Euron Greyjoy. Team "absolutely fucking horrible people who are fun to watch because they're kind of enjoying themselves" got a bit bigger.

No, the biggest thing that actually annoys me.. giving Melissandre a crisis of faith.

One of the ballsiest things about the books, I think, is the fact that Melissandre, a religious zealot who burns people alive as a sacrifice to a cruel and uncompromising god, is ultimately a hero, in fact she is in many ways the ultimate hero by the standards of heroic mythology within the universe itself works, because there is absolutely nothing she wouldn't sacrifice for the cause of good. She's an ancient, incredibly powerful being who has apparently devoted her entire life to this metaphysical war of good versus evil. She knows better than any character in the setting what is at stake if she fails, she is also (going by her POV chapters) aware that she can make mistakes or misinterpret her visions of the future.

At this point, it doesn't matter if R'hllor actually exists or if he sends Melissandre messages, or if she's just using some kind of magic to see the future, she's still seen and done enough at this point to be absolutely certain of herself either way. Giving her a little emotional breakdown so that Davos, of all people, can comfort her and reassure her with the knowledge that she doesn't need the Lord of Light to be awesome as if that's some kind of atonement that she needed just strikes me as not only really out of character, but also kind of cops on one of the more interesting things about Westeros as a setting, which is that there's very good reason to think that at least some of the religious mythology floating around is actually, 100% true.

That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.

I kinda liked Mellisandra the past 2 episodes, for once i can sympathize with her, we have seen her being this confident, powerfull woman since season 2, it's good to see a bit of humanity every now and again and this i think was perfect. it's clear by now she is going to be a badass once again when she finds out Jon is alive.

Is it out of character? Really? a chracter who has harped on about "the vision in the flames" all to see the 2 people she saw fighting in this war die? She even said she saw Stannis on the throne after the battle of Blackwater. Obviously she is going to doubt herself, anyone would in that situation.

Thanks to these 2 new eps she has actually became a new favourite of mine, easily in my top 3 (where she was only in the top 10 last season)

Roose has always seemed way too cunning to not be able to sniff out dissension and kill it quickly. He knows what Ramsay is, and yet he somehow allowed his psychotic bastard to gather support out from under him and then kill him as soon as another child was born. I really hope the books don't do it this way, because the show's already putting too much focus on Ramsay. The strength of the books was always that there weren't too many straight up evil characters. They're all varying degrees of grey. Ramsay and the show's portrayal of Joffrey really don't meet this standard.

The Greyjoy stuff seems to be a lot better on screen than it was in the books. This was by far the most plodding material book 4 gave us and was almost always a chore for me to read through. I do hope we get Victarion though as he was what made the plotline in the book tolerable.

The resurrection scene was pretty predictable. You know it's the last scene of the episode so something big is going to happen and you know they have to do the fake out for the sake of drama, so you know that as soon as everyone has left, he's going to wake up. It was a good scene, but it lost a lot of its potential weight by being both predictable (just about everyone buys the Jon Targaryen theory now) and cliche. I hope the books don't make it simply as him getting brought back by Melissandre. The books touched on the fact that a warg could have their mind escape death by fleeing into another being. I'm hoping that in the books, Jon fled into Ghost and returned to his body after Melissandre made it habitable again. They could still do this in the show, but I don't think it would work very well since it hasn't touched on the Stark children all being wargs (with Bran being the most powerful) nearly as much as the books.

The King's Landing stuff was all very good. The conversation between Cersei and her son was quite touching. I really hope the prohesy doesn't come true because Tommen really comes across as a good guy. He's introspective enough to recognize his flaws, but he also has the wisdom to show restraint. Sure he lacks confidence, but I'd rather him sit on the throne than Danny at this point.

Tyrion and the dragons was a fun scene. Glad they didn't pull a Quentin.

Sansa and Theon's scene was also quite touching. I wonder if Theon gets back in time for the moot. This plotline intrigues me quite a bit because the Greyjoys have a lot of catching up to do in regards to where the other plotlines are. I'm wondering if they'll cut aspects of it entirely or if they're simply going to ignore the amount of time it takes to

Arya's scenes have been pretty dull. Though, to be fair, I think the show has actually done a better job of making her story interesting than the books did. Her killing Trant last season was a lot more interesting than killing a deserting Night's Watchman. The scenes of her in the books were far too spread out and I ultimately lost a lot of interest in her story. The show is doing a bit better of a job, but I can't help but feel like we're just treading water until she's allowed to do other stuff.

Bran's scene was pretty interesting too. Seems that we'll be getting what everyone has theorized in that he'll see plenty of flashbacks of Ned's life, potentially culminating in the Tower of Joy where we find out the truth behind Jon's parentage.

Overall, I like this episode quite a bit more than the first one, but that's pretty much par for the course with this show. I do think this season is shaping up to be better than the last one.

As a side not: I think the Faegon theories are all but confirmed at this point. If he was going to have a truly meaningful impact as another Targaryen in the books, they would have introduced him by now on the show.

I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.

At the very least with Ramsay offing Roose that's in character and does seem like something Ramsay would do, especially since Roose was increasingly making it clear that Ramsay's position was in jeopardy. And like with all of Ramsay's decisions he acts on the spur of the moment and doesn't think about the actual consequences. He panicked so now he's secured his downfall because no one in the North likes Ramsay and they only need a Stark to get behind.

As for the Wall, it was hilarious for Thorne to see just how stupid his idea was because all he accomplished was one day of being in charge, got a couple men killed, and then got his ass thrown in a cell (also, bonus points for Wun Wun clubbing that guy against the wall and making the mutineers crap themselves and Olly being treated like a gnat by Tormund).

All in all, the season is off to a good start (Dorne notwithstanding, even when it's off screen) and hopefully Ramsay doesn't stick around too much longer because he ran his course long ago.

Buizel91:
I kinda liked Mellisandra the past 2 episodes, for once i can sympathize with her, we have seen her being this confident, powerfull woman since season 2, it's good to see a bit of humanity every now and again and this i think was perfect. it's clear by now she is going to be a badass once again when she finds out Jon is alive.

Yeah, I think if I try to block out my book knowledge it makes a lot more sense. I do occasionally wonder if I'm becoming one of those people who can't divorce the two from each other, which at this point is very silly because they are very, very different.

But yeah, in the books Melisandre is a lot more overtly powerful. She doesn't just predict a few things, she predicts many things with perfect accuracy right down to tiny details, including things she couldn't possibly have guessed or heard about. During one of her POV chapters she describes seeing Bran and the three eyed raven, although she doesn't know who they are. Basically, she knows when she's actually seeing prophecy, but she also knows she doesn't always interpret prophecy correctly and often the things she sees are vague and confusing. She is very blatantly wrong about Stannis, for example, and will presumably realize it too late just as she has in the show.

She's also incredibly old.. like, probably inhumanly old. This was somewhat apparent from the books before the big reveal in the show due to little details like her having difficulty remembering any details of her own life. She isn't even certain on her original name.

But yeah, the more I think about it the more I actually think the show has generally been more subtle on the subject of magic and prophecy, so I can see your point. It still bugged me a little.

Aiddon:

All in all, the season is off to a good start (Dorne notwithstanding, even when it's off screen) and hopefully Ramsay doesn't stick around too much longer because he ran his course long ago.

I hope he decides to invade the north just to see Wun Wun step on him. The Boltons have no idea that there's an army of wildlings between them and castle black so it'll be another epic battle with a predictable end if they turn their attention north.

Politrukk:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.

It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.

K12:

Politrukk:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.

It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.

His death will have impact in the sense that it releases him from his vows to the night's watch.

evilthecat:
That aside, and other than the odd stinky line of dialogue, it's been pretty fun so far. Even Dorne has been.. better, this season than last season (bad pussy!) So yeah, looking forward to see where it goes.

"Bad pussy" was my favorite part of the entire Dorne plot line last season. It also had...an effect on me, so that might be influencing my opinion.

As for the start of this season: they're certainly not wasting time in killing off characters. Which is good, this show desperately needs some focus. Much like the books, which they are no longer obligated to follow, so they can just kill whoever the fuck they like. And then they will hopefully be able to make some of the story strands weave together again. Arya needs to fucking get back to Westeros and start making shit happen with blind-person Daredevil powers or some shit. Snow should probably kill Ramsay and get that done with. The High Sparrow desperately needs a smackdown. Sand snakes need to eat the dust, etc. etc.

Politrukk:

K12:

Politrukk:
I'm bothered they might revert on the Jon decision as it being an illusion or something, but then again Melisandre saw Winterfell burn as it was conquered/freed again, Jon has perished because he failed the watch, I bet in a weird twist because he holds no allegiance to the watch anymore he will become the one to retake winterfell afterall.

It would be an immensely cruel thing to do to bring back to life one of the most liked characters only to say "ha just kidding".

I have the opposite worry that Jon Snow coming back to live will mean that his "death" has relatively little impact on the overall story with him basically continuing along the path that he was taking before he got pincushioned.

I was very smug watching this episode. Two of my major predicions were that: Melisandre will bring back Jon Snow (although most people thought that) and become much more likable and one of the Boltons will kill the other one (I didn't think that it would happen quite so unceremoniously though) both happened in the same episode.

His death will have impact in the sense that it releases him from his vows to the night's watch.

... I'm not totally sure that it does you know.

The "I shall not end until my death" bit he gets around but the wording of the ending is:

"I pledge my life and honour to the night's watch for this night and all nights to come" which doesn't really let him off.

I'm sure it'll come up in the show though and really the reason he hasn't deserted is because he's loyal and honourable and stuff which could easily go out the window now that he got totally fucked over like that for doing the right thing.

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