Zero Punctuation: Overwatch vs Battleborn

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Overwatch vs Battleborn

This week, Zero Punctuation pits Overwatch vs Battleborn.

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Have not and will not play Overwatch I have no interest in a 100% vs game. I am enjoying the shit out of Battleborn though. Just a difference of taste I suppose.

There was character based quake showed on E3 I guess character based FPS are now the new thing. Anyway they all suck/will suck cause TF2 is the best and has been the best for 9 years.

you guys are honestly missing out. Overwatch is a ton of fun.

and this is coming from someone who pretty much never plays PvP games.

Hey i didn't like the borderlands series too! But that also come with the inevitable, depressing fact that i have no online game friends.

Regarding the Posegate (or Tracerstorm, or whatever): Considering that the new pose is pretty much as sexualized as the old one, and the old one is a copy from Widowmaker while the new one is unique to Tracer, it's highly unlikely they actually changed it because of the complaint. More believable that they wanted to already and wanted to score some "good points" with the PC crowd while at it

Why are so many people comparing these games? They're not of the same genre.

Hey I have you know that perverts also like Mei and Zarya(especially Mei)

Some actual anger, that's fairly rare.
Some railing against the mostly-fictional "SJW" boogeyman, that's fairly disappointing.

Xsjadoblayde:
Hey i didn't like the borderlands series too! But that also come with the inevitable, depressing fact that i have no online game friends.

Borderlands 2 didn't do much for me. It's still on my hard drive but I haven't touched it in nearly a year(I got to Sanctuary, did a few missions and then kinda lost interest).

Ironically, I started playing because I really enjoyed Tales from the Borderlands(even without knowing anything other then the fact Handsome Jack is a bit of a dick).

I like the characters in overwatch. Thier not 100% original but thier still fun.

SKBPinkie:
Why are so many people comparing these games? They're not of the same genre.

It's because they're both an FPS and have a huge cast of 20+ characters, each with their own unique abilities. That's pretty much it.

What I find a little quite sad, though, is that the general consensus is the Battleborne (Yes, I'll spell with an "E") is an "Overwatch clone" even though Battleborne was announced months prior.

Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

Still don't get the appeal. Said the same thing about TF2, Evolve and that robot game. They seem fun for like the first match, then get repetitive, then in 6 months everything is a ghost town and you spent $70+ on a game no one plays anymore because everyone got burnt out.

Agreed with Yahtzee's criticisms, nice to see he's not afraid to call out companies for bullshit like microtransactions, I too miss the days where you bought games and owned them. Battleborn does have microtransactions, but at the very least you can choose to buy whatever skins you want rather jump through hoops with a bullshit RNG gambling mechanic cynically designed to give you as much trash as possible(the mere existence of duplicates is proof enough of that).

I prefer Battleborn myself as I like it's humor and gameplay, I don't give a shit about MP-only games, so i'm avoiding Overwatch like the plague. I'm glad that even though Yahtzee wasn't as big on BB gameplay wise, he still called out how unfair it was for people to immediately dismiss it, which I very much agree with.

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

You're wasting your time man. When to comes to shit like this people take emotional investment in always being right and never being wrong. Little things like facts can't get in the way of a person's viewpoint on life.

Then again I keep getting into arguments, so I guess I'm a dirty hypocrite and you should probably ignore me. It's just worth remembering that it's next to impossible to get people to change their minds on things like this, in the same way it's next to impossible to get someone to change their religion or political party, and Yahtzee is more stubborn than most.

And here I thought he was gonna skip them! And yet now we have a Versus video!

*grabs popcorn* This gonna be good.

(finishes video)

...Daaaaamn that was brutal.

I do question why he got the full priced Overwatch, though. I guess he got in on console. I got the 40 version on PC and that seemed reasonable. 60 was just ludicrous.

aegix drakan:
And here I thought he was gonna skip them! And yet now we have a Versus video!

*grabs popcorn* This gonna be good.

(finishes video)

...Daaaaamn that was brutal.

I do question why he got the full priced Overwatch, though. I guess he got in on console. I got the 40 version on PC and that seemed reasonable. 60 was just ludicrous.

Overwatch kind of pisses away all the good will it earned with a 40 dollar price tag when it had an alternate version that also costed 60 bucks.

Also Australian prices were probably a factor.

Not played either but I've watched a fair bit of Overpriced Overwatch, and whilst I think their character designs are mostly superb, they do eventually tend to come across as painfully soulless, and that comes across more in the combat barks.

Glad to see Reaper got picked out, too. Every time I hear that insufferable "Die, die, DIE!!!!!!1!" I just think some delusionally angsty urchin obsessed with Hatred has manifested in digital form...

Noyemi-K:
Some actual anger, that's fairly rare.
Some railing against the mostly-fictional "SJW" boogeyman, that's fairly disappointing.

If you listen to any of his Let's Drown Out's then it may be disappointing but it's not unexpected, at least. It must always be kept in mind that Yahtzee's also a genuinely odd and slightly unhinged bloke... Voice of any particular group, he ain't, which I'd count as a positive.

erttheking:

Overwatch kind of pisses away all the good will it earned with a 40 dollar price tag when it had an alternate version that also costed 60 bucks.

Also Australian prices were probably a factor.

Oh yeahhh...Australian game prices. Forgot about that.

In any case, as a PC player, I didn't see the appeal of the 60$ version. 20 extra bucks for a handful of skins, most of which look lame? Why the hell did anyone on PC buy that?

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

SNCommand:

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

I hate everything about overwatch.

I hate online multiplayer only games because 3 months from now the servers will be dead and the game will be worthless. It's already dropped by 50% since launch.

I hate the fact that blizzard for some reason pandered to a whining SJW type about one "Shows her ass" pose when the game was, and still is, filled to burst with skin tight body suits and cleavage right down to the fucking belly button. It is a blatantly manufactured controversy that I'm convinced exists for no reason other than positive PR. Change one minor, meaningless detail and suddenly all the tumblrites are calling you progressive jesus.

I hate the aggressive marketing, the nothing characters, the borderline fellatory praise it receives despite doing nothing special, and the fact that they want you to pay 60 bucks for a game with a short lifespan and limited play value.

The only good thing to come out of this entire stupid endeavor is the crazy amount of butthurt I'm seeing from people crying about SFM porn of their waifus.

Worgen:

SNCommand:

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."

And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."

It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".

And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

Do I stick it up my arse before or after I destroy the 4 energy crystals?

Other than that, does this mean that "focus groups" win again over the "artistic expression"? Then again, maybe this could be chalked it up to yet another "should have been released first" kind of situation... It's the format wars in video game form!

Worgen:

SNCommand:

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Just adding this link because he does a really good job explaining it. I know the vid's super long, but half of it is necessary-ish background stuff about animation and pose design. I will admit that Blizzard's orginal response felt like it was deliberately trying to get good guy points, but I honestly believe they were gonna change it regardless.

(also how do you embed videos?)

Worgen:
It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

Ben Yahtzee vs Battleborn vs Overwatch, this is going to be a fun discussion, and by fun I mean I already got the popcorn.

Speaking of hero shooters, what happened to Paladins, that colorful shooter that was meant to release last year (at least I think it was last year)? And where did all of the hype of Paragon went?

Johnny Novgorod:

Worgen:
It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

It's not sexist, it's just sexually suggestive.

C14N:

Johnny Novgorod:

Worgen:
It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

It's not sexist, it's just sexually suggestive.

Right you are, but the outcry was over sexism, not the perception of what Tracer's "character" would and wouldn't do.

Piecewise:

Worgen:

SNCommand:

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."

And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."

It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".

And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

step1999:

Worgen:

SNCommand:

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Just adding this link because he does a really good job explaining it. I know the vid's super long, but half of it is necessary-ish background stuff about animation and pose design. I will admit that Blizzard's orginal response felt like it was deliberately trying to get good guy points, but I honestly believe they were gonna change it regardless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmLkVtqjf1A

(also how do you embed videos?)

To embed a vid you type youtube=ZmLkVtqjf1A in brackets []
See the random letters and numbers at the end of the youtube link? You put that after youtube=

Johnny Novgorod:

Worgen:
It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

Now your just splitting hairs.

Ok.

This is the point at wich I am sick of yahzee.

I have followed him from the pre-escapist start and had ups and downs et c. but for whatever reason this is the point I just feel bloated of him.

I didn't care about either game before I watched this video. I think online shooters are too repetitive. Yahtzee actually sold me on Battleborn. From complaining about it sounding like Buffy the Vampire Slayer (The Best TV Show Ever Made!) to noting that it has a single player campaign.

With all the hype, you would expect Overwatch to be all things to everybody. For it just being a MOBA shooter, that was really disappointing. I can see it having the same fate as Titanfall and Destiny.

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