Zero Punctuation: Overwatch vs Battleborn

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Worgen:

Piecewise:

Worgen:

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."

And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."

It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".

And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

No, that's literally what all the entire stir was about, Tracer showing her bum and how it made her (And only her) a "sex symbol" and made the game "unsafe for the children". The entire thing was so ridiculous that people were scratching their heads over it trying to figure out if this guy was genuine. Here's a couple articles about the whole debacle (One from Forbes, another from Lewd Gamer, the latter link is NSFW).

Silentpony:
Still don't get the appeal. Said the same thing about TF2, Evolve and that robot game. They seem fun for like the first match, then get repetitive, then in 6 months everything is a ghost town and you spent $70+ on a game no one plays anymore because everyone got burnt out.

I don't understand this complaint. Every single multiplayer game in the history of gaming has been repetitive. The point is that you're playing with or against human beings who are more unpredictable than an AI.

Can't really see the drought with Fire emblem Fates being released in the Australia now as well. Only after that one can talk about a dry season.

"It's got something for everyone" is apparently a criticism now.

Worgen:

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

How can I be full of it? I'm quoting directly from the posts in question. Here, since the entire thread got nuked out of existence, here's a screen cap of the post
https://i.imgur.com/8T07K2X.png

His entire argument was that her looking over her shoulder was completely out of character and turned her into nothing but a sex symbol. How exactly thats the fault of the pose and not the fact that she's wearing a spandex bodysock is beyond me. But then he goes on to talk about the "Great work" they're doing with "strong female characters" and how he wants his daughter to "Grow up" with the characters.

He says its about it being "out of character" but the subtext here is pretty plain.

And I'm not saying this is a conspiracy or anything. I'm saying that Blizzard saw this and decided to pander to him in order to garner massive pr and positive opinions from soapbox loving game journos.

Johnny Novgorod:

C14N:

Johnny Novgorod:
"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

It's not sexist, it's just sexually suggestive.

Right you are, but the outcry was over sexism, not the perception of what Tracer's "character" would and wouldn't do.

Actually, no. The original complain was because it was "out of character", even going as far as saying the same pose is not an issue with characters like Widowmaker... the outcry response, on the other hand, was about people being denied dat ass.

Worgen:

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

But one of the poses she has now has her sitting, not exactly the epitome of movement is it? Another has her standing still with her hands on her hips

You know what would be in character? A pose in which she shoots someone in the face, considering she has 30 years of experience in homicide

Piecewise:

How can I be full of it? I'm quoting directly from the posts in question. Here, since the entire thread got nuked out of existence, here's a screen cap of the post
https://i.imgur.com/8T07K2X.png

His entire argument was that her looking over her shoulder was completely out of character and turned her into nothing but a sex symbol. How exactly thats the fault of the pose and not the fact that she's wearing a spandex bodysock is beyond me. But then he goes on to talk about the "Great work" they're doing with "strong female characters" and how he wants his daughter to "Grow up" with the characters.

He says its about it being "out of character" but the subtext here is pretty plain.

And I'm not saying this is a conspiracy or anything. I'm saying that Blizzard saw this and decided to pander to him in order to garner massive pr and positive opinions from soapbox loving game journos.

Speaking of conspiracies, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that forum poster was actually just a sock puppet for the Blizzard dude who instantly promised to change the pose. It's like he wanted to change it for whatever reason, and suddenly here's ConcernedFeministDad to make the case that it would be super considerate of all the fresh-faced little kiddies who are innocently headshotting each other in this game to do just that. Bonus points for marketing to parents of young children.

I'm just curious as to what archetype demographic Bastion is supposed to appeal to. Transformers fans?

And before anyone gets cheeky, no, I don't believe 'noobs' counts as an archetype demographic.

Oh Overwatch is definitely Overpriced.

I'm not paying full bloody price for a game which only has Multiplayer.

That's like paying for a car which can only drive when there's traffic on the roads.

Transdude1996:

Worgen:

Piecewise:

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."

And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."

It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".

And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

No, that's literally what all the entire stir was about, Tracer showing her bum and how it made her (And only her) a "sex symbol" and made the game "unsafe for the children". The entire thing was so ridiculous that people were scratching their heads over it trying to figure out if this guy was genuine. Here's a couple articles about the whole debacle (One from Forbes, another from Lewd Gamer, the latter link is NSFW).

Your either wrong or a liar. I found the original post.
image
What is this about? You cant jack off to a slightly different pose? Seriously, get the fuck over it. Apparently the dev team wasn't happy with her old pose and this just was the kick in the pants they needed to fix it.

Piecewise:

Worgen:

I'm calling bullshit. If this was about that then it would have been more about widowmaker or at least included widowmaker or even mae(?). I think you are full of it.

How can I be full of it? I'm quoting directly from the posts in question. Here, since the entire thread got nuked out of existence, here's a screen cap of the post
https://i.imgur.com/8T07K2X.png

His entire argument was that her looking over her shoulder was completely out of character and turned her into nothing but a sex symbol. How exactly thats the fault of the pose and not the fact that she's wearing a spandex bodysock is beyond me. But then he goes on to talk about the "Great work" they're doing with "strong female characters" and how he wants his daughter to "Grow up" with the characters.

He says its about it being "out of character" but the subtext here is pretty plain.

And I'm not saying this is a conspiracy or anything. I'm saying that Blizzard saw this and decided to pander to him in order to garner massive pr and positive opinions from soapbox loving game journos.

Ok, you just proved me right. Congrates for not reading her post, here is an internet cookie, its oatmeal with raisins.

"What? What about this pose has anything to do with the character you're building in Tracer? It's just not fun, its not silly. It has nothing to do with being a fast elite killer. It just reduces Tracer to another bland female sex symbol."

What is wrong with the poster wanting a role model for his/her child? Are you so jaded that you cant jack off to a slightly different pose? Cause that's what it sounds like your fighting for. Even the dev team has said they were never happy with Tracers original back pose, are you saying they should have kept something they themselves don't like?

SNCommand:

Worgen:

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

But one of the poses she has now has her sitting, not exactly the epitome of movement is it? Another has her standing still with her hands on her hips

You know what would be in character? A pose in which she shoots someone in the face, considering she has 30 years of experience in homicide

image
Look at her poses here. Which one sounds out? You have 3 cocky playful poses then one where she is just standing there almost saying "look at my butt." Its not playful, its not cocky, it just is, there is no character to it. Its the kind of pose you just use when your mind farts and you cant be bothered.

The term 'Gender Specials' makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It's a nice reminder that, while everybody is free to be and present themselves as whomever or whatever they like, other people are under no obligation to like or accept them. We can reject you, much in the same way that you can reject us. It's all good.

Worgen:

SNCommand:

Worgen:

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

But one of the poses she has now has her sitting, not exactly the epitome of movement is it? Another has her standing still with her hands on her hips

You know what would be in character? A pose in which she shoots someone in the face, considering she has 30 years of experience in homicide

image
Look at her poses here. Which one sounds out? You have 3 cocky playful poses then one where she is just standing there almost saying "look at my butt." Its not playful, its not cocky, it just is, there is no character to it. Its the kind of pose you just use when your mind farts and you cant be bothered.

I don't know about you, but in my opinion the first pose is pretty cocky, she's even smirking, I'm getting terror flashbacks to her sticking me and running away

Piecewise:
I hate everything about overwatch.

I hate online multiplayer only games because 3 months from now the servers will be dead and the game will be worthless. It's already dropped by 50% since launch.

Can I get a source for that?

I've actually been curious about Overwatch's online traffic, but all I can find is the number of total players registered.

SKBPinkie:
Why are so many people comparing these games? They're not of the same genre.

Because Battleborn had godawful marketing. I'm really enjoying it, but Gearbox/2K did an absolutely attrocious job marketing it.

SNCommand:

Worgen:

SNCommand:

But one of the poses she has now has her sitting, not exactly the epitome of movement is it? Another has her standing still with her hands on her hips

You know what would be in character? A pose in which she shoots someone in the face, considering she has 30 years of experience in homicide

image
Look at her poses here. Which one sounds out? You have 3 cocky playful poses then one where she is just standing there almost saying "look at my butt." Its not playful, its not cocky, it just is, there is no character to it. Its the kind of pose you just use when your mind farts and you cant be bothered.

I don't know about you, but in my opinion the first pose is pretty cocky, she's even smirking, I'm getting terror flashbacks to her sticking me and running away

You can't tell me that first pose fits her better than this one. image

Because as I understand the character, shes not about being serious and intimidating. Shes about fun and speed and being the opposite of taking anything serious.

I hoped he would do Overpri- I mean Overwatch, I almost forgot about Battleborn, but we got Overpriced vs. Battlebored today! So hopefully, next week will be another E3 takedown.

Worgen:

Johnny Novgorod:

Worgen:
It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

"I don't think she would pose in such a sexist way".

Now your just splitting hairs.

It's like that "sexy" vs. "sexist" argument about the cover of the Spinal Tap album, "Smell The Glove".

Party_Magician:
Regarding the Posegate (or Tracerstorm, or whatever): Considering that the new pose is pretty much as sexualized as the old one, and the old one is a copy from Widowmaker while the new one is unique to Tracer, it's highly unlikely they actually changed it because of the complaint. More believable that they wanted to already and wanted to score some "good points" with the PC crowd while at it

I'm fairly sure they stated it was a default pose that was only a temporary thing and that although they agreed with the criticisms they would do what they deemed appropriate with their characters.

So, they didn't do anything really, just got a bit of a rush on. The new pose is better though, Tracer's mean't to be playful so the new one's much more fitting (HA! Puns).

OT: I dunno, it seems a little unfair to call the characters boring when their backstories have been relegated to their wiki entries and, if they're lucky, a short animation more focused on action then establishing who they are.

What I'm saying is, Blizzrd, I want a cartoon. I don't wanna hear excuses or whatever, JUST GIVE ME A CARTOON WITH THESE FUCKERS!

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

What? How? THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE. In what way, exactly, was the pose out of character? Is she a prude? Does she have zero sense of fun? Was the fact that waving her guns around like that while she poses a clear violation of the 4 rules against her moral code? How was it out of character?

ravenshrike:

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

What? How? THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE. In what way, exactly, was the pose out of character? Is she a prude? Does she have zero sense of fun? Was the fact that waving her guns around like that while she poses a clear violation of the 4 rules against her moral code? How was it out of character?

If you look up literally 3 posts from yours, you will see what I mean. I posted images.

bladeofdarkness:
you guys are honestly missing out. Overwatch is a ton of fun.

and this is coming from someone who pretty much never plays PvP games.

Do they have a character who looks like michael fassbender shirtless, wearing colourful tights? If not i seem no reason to play overwatch

Piecewise:
I hate everything about overwatch.

I hate online multiplayer only games because 3 months from now the servers will be dead and the game will be worthless. It's already dropped by 50% since launch.

I hate the fact that blizzard for some reason pandered to a whining SJW type about one "Shows her ass" pose when the game was, and still is, filled to burst with skin tight body suits and cleavage right down to the fucking belly button. It is a blatantly manufactured controversy that I'm convinced exists for no reason other than positive PR. Change one minor, meaningless detail and suddenly all the tumblrites are calling you progressive jesus.

I hate the aggressive marketing, the nothing characters, the borderline fellatory praise it receives despite doing nothing special, and the fact that they want you to pay 60 bucks for a game with a short lifespan and limited play value.

The only good thing to come out of this entire stupid endeavor is the crazy amount of butthurt I'm seeing from people crying about SFM porn of their waifus.

Can't take anyone seriously who unironically uses stupid terms like "SJW".

Piecewise:

Worgen:

SNCommand:

I think that the problem with that particular argument is that even though the new pose is better there's really no great arguments for why the old one was out of character, I've read it was too sexual, because god forbid the woman who has been 26 year old for 30 years dares have a back pose

I think only reasonable point is perhaps it being cliched, but if everything cliched was to be removed I think there's a certain robot samurai that needs to be dealt with first

Because Tracer is all about movement, her just standing still with her legs spread and all attention focused on her butt isn't what her character is about. No one changed widowmaker's(?) poses for being overly sexy, because that's her archtype, its perfectly in character for her to be weirdly sexy about things.

This isn't about the old fem-fatal trope, this is about someone posing in such a way that not only is it a bad pose but also a pose the character probably wouldn't take for victory.

Actually no, the entire original complaint was nothing but "This pose will make my daughter uncomfortable and sexy ladies are unacceptable". Let me quote

"This pose says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to sex symbols to help boost our investment game...

What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the [Overwatch] cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create strong female characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a [Tracer] pose like this undermines so much of the good you've already done."

And the response that blizzard gave was

"We want *everyone* to feel strong and heroic in our community. The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented."

It was literally one SJW screaming "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" and then blizzard immediately folding because they didn't want someone to feel "Uncomfortable".

And yet half the roster is sexy ladies in skin tight clothing. This entire fucking "controversy" is so blatantly manufactured for positive PR that it's laughable. Blizzard saw the massive controversy that thread was stirring and very cleverly stepped in, changed one minor detail and garnered massive attention for it. It was brilliant marketing on their part.

SJW is a stupid term and I cannot take anyone seriously that uses it.

Worgen:

SNCommand:

Worgen:

image
Look at her poses here. Which one sounds out? You have 3 cocky playful poses then one where she is just standing there almost saying "look at my butt." Its not playful, its not cocky, it just is, there is no character to it. Its the kind of pose you just use when your mind farts and you cant be bothered.

I don't know about you, but in my opinion the first pose is pretty cocky, she's even smirking, I'm getting terror flashbacks to her sticking me and running away

You can't tell me that first pose fits her better than this one. image

Because as I understand the character, shes not about being serious and intimidating. Shes about fun and speed and being the opposite of taking anything serious.

As I said, the new pose is infinitely better, but the reasons for doing it had no strong argument to it, none of the other poses were any more dynamic, and constraining her personality to just fun and speed is a disservice to the character to be honest

Got a great subtitle:
"Overtime vs Battlebore"

Worgen:
Are you so jaded that you cant jack off to a slightly different pose? Cause that's what it sounds like your fighting for.

Calm your justice boner, insulting people left and right isn't exactly a good way to make a point.

K12:
"It's got something for everyone" is apparently a criticism now.

Well it can be a negative given that in the case of Overpriced Overwatch it leads to an incoherent art style amongst the cast.

Worgen:

Look at her poses here. Which one sounds out? You have 3 cocky playful poses then one where she is just standing there almost saying "look at my butt." Its not playful, its not cocky, it just is, there is no character to it.

I'm sorry but for me the one standing out is when she is sitting down and has her goggles removed xD

Were it not for this drama around the butt, I would really not see much of a difference between the first pose and other 2 standing ones. I keep hearing how that pose is out of character for her or something, but I guess I'm not squinting hard enough to see it.
Again, out of those 4, the one that stands out is the one where the speedster's sitting down and very much immobile, at least in all the standing ones, whether she shows her butt or not, she is ready to run off in an instant.

Maybe I'm just a pervert who can't jack off to a slightly differently pose..Oh wait I can, quite easily. Never mind it's all good!

Piecewise:
It's already dropped by 50% since launch.

Where did you hear that? They just published stats recently (as in today) that they grew to ten million players, which surpasses even the open beta numbers.

Worgen:
Ugh, you made this mistake in your lets drown out also. The reason blizzard changed the character wasn't the complaint, it was that the poster said it was out of character for that character. Which it was, despite how high her pants ride up on her. It wasnt someone saying "sexist" it was someone saying "I don't think she would pose like that."

Welcome to the New Dumb, where everyone who hadn't already pitched their tent in the political correctness camp feels obligated to join the war against it and make themselves look like assholes in the process. (See also: South Park, which got way more criticism early on than it does nowadays but still felt the need to devote the whole last season to lashing out at their critics.) It's funny, looking back at older Zero Punctuation episodes where he gleefully mocked the unabashed sexualization in video games, called Uncharted "a game for white supremacists" because all the enemies you fight are minorities, censored his own video when people complained that one of the jokes came across as mocking transsexuals... If Gamergate had been looking for ammo to lump him in with their shit list of "SJWs who are ruining gaming", there was plenty to go around.

And the mastermind behind turning the Escapist into Gamergate Central and systematically firing everyone who'd ever said a bad word about them... none other than Alexander Macris, the owner and original founder of the site, who had been just as instrumental in bringing them on board in the first place. You really have to wonder if something got into the water in the past few years.

Silentpony:
Still don't get the appeal. Said the same thing about TF2, Evolve and that robot game. They seem fun for like the first match, then get repetitive, then in 6 months everything is a ghost town and you spent $70+ on a game no one plays anymore because everyone got burnt out.

I'm feeling myself agreeing to this.

However, I have some 40 hours played on overwatch already...so I kinda feel like I've gotten my moneys worth anyway.

The thing that is interesting about OW is that its quite rock paper scissor. A part of the game is actually switching heroes when needed, makes the matches interesting. Well, most matches.

Saika Renegade:
I'm just curious as to what archetype demographic Bastion is supposed to appeal to. Transformers fans?

He appeals to the noo-

And before anyone gets cheeky, no, I don't believe 'noobs' counts as an archetype demographic.

DAMN! >: ( Foiled again!

Anyway, the whole tracer thing is just so goddamn overblown. It was a single pose that was generally weak that was changed IN BETA.

Is it mildly silly, annoying, or whatever? Yeah. Is it worth blowing a gasket over? No! There are WAY bigger fish to fry (didn't the new fire emblem chop out a big chunk of content and replace it with literally nothing, for example?)

I wondered if Yahtzee was going to review either one of these games, so I guess it makes sense he would compare the two in the review.

...Wait, he commented about TracerGate? OH GOD YAHTZEE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

Quick, everyone into the bunker before the flame war starts!

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