Back in Your Hole

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...Eh. This is one that would've probably benefited from fewer panels.

Honestly you would think that with Nintendos historic attitude to unlisenced ports/remakes of its old games that fans wouldnt bother knowing they would get served a C&D the moment Nint peeked out of its own rectum.

gigastar:
Honestly you would think that with Nintendos historic attitude to unlisenced ports/remakes of its old games that fans wouldnt bother knowing they would get served a C&D the moment Nint peeked out of its own rectum.

The way copyright law works, they're obligated to.
If you "Fail to defend your copyright", that "Failure" can be used as evidence against you in future copyright cases. Companies are forced to be insanely overzealous with their application of copyright.

It wouldn't be so harsh if Nintendo was actually doing something with the series. (Federation Force doesn't count.)

Seriously, take the model from smash bros, and make a traditional 2D metroid for the 3DS or something. Go retro with the story and just have it be a simple "Pirates have found the last chozo, go on a rescue mission" or something if you're afraid of taking risks after the debacle that was other M.

(Personally, I'd like a sequel to fusion. There are so many neat things you can do from there! Samus is on the run, with metroid DNA! We could have a story of her trying to undermine the federation's scientists from recreating the X, or have her go on a dangerous world to find a cure because she's starting to evolve like a metroid or something!)

Hell, Prime 1 was phenomenal and it barely had a story at all, just "Oh hey, I tracked Mecha ridley to this base, time to hint him down and...Oh. Shit. There's something worse inside the planet I need to kill!"

Give us something, Nintendo!

I don't think Nintendo gets that Metroid resonates so much more with US audiences than in Japan. So they spend a year with Luigi and the Metroid anniversary is "fuck you, here's Metroid SD"

Either that or having a US studio crush it while the world HAAAAAATES the most recent attempt leaves some deep scars.

Sorry Samus... The "market" is not looking for ANOTHER being-in-sci-fi-suit at this point in time... We already have that coming with Federation Force, which is EXACTLY what the "market" has been clamoring fir with their voice "money"...

Other than that, I guess you could say a hole lot of nothing has been going on with Samus and her Metriod squad zero suit be damned...

Souplex:

gigastar:
Honestly you would think that with Nintendos historic attitude to unlisenced ports/remakes of its old games that fans wouldnt bother knowing they would get served a C&D the moment Nint peeked out of its own rectum.

The way copyright law works, they're obligated to.
If you "Fail to defend your copyright", that "Failure" can be used as evidence against you in future copyright cases. Companies are forced to be insanely overzealous with their application of copyright.

I wasnt talking about Nint's copyright obligation, i was talking about the fans apparent willingness to devote time and energy to a project that could be shot down at a moments notice.

*Sigh* I know it's "their right" and all that bullshit, but I just want to point out that this team has done more for the franchise than Nintendo has post-Prime-triology

Things that are peculiar and possibly worth talking about in this case:

The AM2R project has been public for eight years, and this is, so far as I'm aware, the first move Nintendo has made regarding them directly at all.

A DMCA takedown was filed against the download, but they have not actually received a Cease and Desist order.

The DMCA may not even be the correct framework, since the AM2R project doesn't actually use any original assets. At all. No code, no art, no sound, everything in AM2R was made by the AM2R people themselves, making the whole thing more akin to a song cover than to piracy.

This is far more a trademark issue than a copyright issue, which puts it in a /very/ peculiar space since, again, nothing was done about it for eight years before the finished download was made available, after which Nintendo may have used the wrong legal framework to complain about it.

Our best guess out here is that one of Nintendo's legal department watchdogs mistook AM2R for an actual pirated Nintendo product and filed a DMCA.

Guess we'll just have to see how things shake out from here.

Souplex:
The way copyright law works, they're obligated to.
If you "Fail to defend your copyright", that "Failure" can be used as evidence against you in future copyright cases. Companies are forced to be insanely overzealous with their application of copyright.

That's only half true.

Whilst they do have to defend their copyright, they only really have to defend it against moneymaking projects.

Plenty of companies out there have contingencies in place for fan works. Lucasfilm being especially notable for their handing out of limited use licenses that allow pretty much any fanwork on the grounds that it's not for paid for or strictly for charity. To their small credit Disney haven't really interfered with this, although EA don't seem to be on board with the whole thing. Valve have quite literally built a billion dollar business out of cherry picking the best things people kit bash out of their stuff.

It would be very simple for Nintendo to set up policies for fan projects, but it would run counter to their very patriarchal culture.

Souplex:

gigastar:
Honestly you would think that with Nintendos historic attitude to unlisenced ports/remakes of its old games that fans wouldnt bother knowing they would get served a C&D the moment Nint peeked out of its own rectum.

The way copyright law works, they're obligated to.
If you "Fail to defend your copyright", that "Failure" can be used as evidence against you in future copyright cases. Companies are forced to be insanely overzealous with their application of copyright.

I'm not so sure I buy this anymore. If companies hated this so much then they could lobby for a change. Instead their lobbying for stricter copyright laws that give them more power. The truth is that most companies love being able to sue people into oblivion. I'm currently convinced that, while you are correct about the law, companies have no desire to change it. It's a convenient PR excuse for them to do what they would have been doing anyway.

At least they waited until the thing was out before shutting it down. We all know nothing can ever be removed from the internet once it's out. I'd like to think that was a conscious decision by Nintendo, but I'm probably over thinking it.

And yes, I'm still bitter about the Chrono Trigger Remake Project.

VaporWare:
Things that are peculiar and possibly worth talking about in this case:

The AM2R project has been public for eight years, and this is, so far as I'm aware, the first move Nintendo has made regarding them directly at all.

A DMCA takedown was filed against the download, but they have not actually received a Cease and Desist order.

The DMCA may not even be the correct framework, since the AM2R project doesn't actually use any original assets. At all. No code, no art, no sound, everything in AM2R was made by the AM2R people themselves, making the whole thing more akin to a song cover than to piracy.

This is far more a trademark issue than a copyright issue, which puts it in a /very/ peculiar space since, again, nothing was done about it for eight years before the finished download was made available, after which Nintendo may have used the wrong legal framework to complain about it.

Our best guess out here is that one of Nintendo's legal department watchdogs mistook AM2R for an actual pirated Nintendo product and filed a DMCA.

Guess we'll just have to see how things shake out from here.

God, there's something kinda beautiful about how much of a clusterfuck every last one of these cases ends up being. At this point it's pretty much a solid given that any time "DMCA" shows up in a sentence it'll be followed up by "Something really, really, really dumb."

Of course, it's not like Nintendo could just /buy/ the project since quite literally all of the work has been done for them and I doubt that would cost more then the actual production costs. Not to mention the fact that it's mere existence/popularity already proves there's a market. Hell, that would have been a day one buy on 3DS for me easy. But this would require Nintendo to not be Nintendo.

Oh well, maybe we'll get something good for the 50th...

aegix drakan:
It wouldn't be so harsh if Nintendo was actually doing something with the series. (Federation Force doesn't count.)

Now you know how us Streets of Rage fans felt, especially in regards to Bomberman's phenomenal remake.

But as people have stated elsewhere, the game is done and out there. Like Streets of Remake, just gotta wait for it to poke it's head out every once in a while.

Mike Richards:
God, there's something kinda beautiful about how much of a clusterfuck every last one of these cases ends up being. At this point it's pretty much a solid given that any time "DMCA" shows up in a sentence it'll be followed up by "Something really, really, really dumb."

Of course, it's not like Nintendo could just /buy/ the project since quite literally all of the work has been done for them and I doubt that would cost more then the actual production costs. Not to mention the fact that it's mere existence/popularity already proves there's a market. Hell, that would have been a day one buy on 3DS for me easy. But this would require Nintendo to not be Nintendo.

Oh well, maybe we'll get something good for the 50th...

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how Trademark, Copyright and IP Law in general actually work (there's a very strong tendency for people to conflate them, since they generally relate to the same things, but cover different aspects of a thing and how they're used), and it's worth noting that 'video games' are still a very young part of entertainment media. I'm hoping this will go in a direction that helps establish some better precedent (for instance, handling this sort of fan-project in a manner akin to how the music industry handles cover versions of songs), but a lot depends on how the conversation goes once Nintendo is actually 'aware' of all this.

Right now, we can't even be sure that they're really paying attention as an organization...DMCA notices are kind of crazy easy to throw out there (as we've seen on YouTube, you don't even actually have to be the actual owner of the content in question to throw a DMCA at someone: the claim itself /is enough/ for most service providers to shrug and say 'Whelp, good luck with that.' and shut it down). The fact that they issued a DMCA but have not actually sent AM2R a C&D letter says something here...AM2R is actually continuing /work/ on the project even though they can't /distribute/ it because of the DMCA.

Nintendo /might/ come to terms with AM2R, but we're still in this vague left-hand-right-hand disconnect space until it gets to the attention of someone higher on the food chain (who can make actual decisions about these things) than whatever random watchdog clerk, intern or robot tossed the DMCA up in the first place.

It's really still too early to judge the situation with finality.

Once again, I have to point out that if they'd bought the fanmade game we're talking about here, Nintendo could've made money, but they're afraid of GOOD business practices.

JCAll:
At least they waited until the thing was out before shutting it down. We all know nothing can ever be removed from the internet once it's out. I'd like to think that was a conscious decision by Nintendo, but I'm probably over thinking it.

And yes, I'm still bitter about the Chrono Trigger Remake Project.

You understand Nintendo and Square Enix are two different companies, right?

Maybe its time to start to boycott nintendo. On top of shutting this down when they probably wont make another real metroid game, they also shutdown the archive of nintendo power. Something there is no chance of them doing anything with.

Imperioratorex Caprae:

JCAll:
At least they waited until the thing was out before shutting it down. We all know nothing can ever be removed from the internet once it's out. I'd like to think that was a conscious decision by Nintendo, but I'm probably over thinking it.

And yes, I'm still bitter about the Chrono Trigger Remake Project.

You understand Nintendo and Square Enix are two different companies, right?

You misread the post I think.

They weren't citing Chrono Trigger to take a shot at Nintendo, rather it was just an contrasting example of a fan project that got attacked before it was complete, y'know, to make a point.

---------------------------
On Topic:

tags:
THERES ALWAYS ONE GUY WHO DEFENDS THIS SHIT

Heck, depending on the franchise's reputation, or how people feel about its fanbase, there's most likely more than one. I seem to recall a fighting game of some sort that was C&D'd and pretty much half the people in the thread that was posted here when news broke defended the action. Pretty much called the people that were upset about it huge crybabies.

Funny how that works.... Ah well, at least it got a pretty cool replacement.

I downloaded it and 100%ed it within a couple of days and was about to delete it when I found out the DMCA notice was issued, so I might hold on to it now.

can someone explain how is the game infinging copyright? isnt it that as long as you dont make money off it then you are good to go? because otherwise all fanart could be clammed as infringing copyright

Awh can't believe I managed to miss out on this before Ninty went DMCA on it.

Halyah:
Awh can't believe I managed to miss out on this before Ninty went DMCA on it.

There's links out there. Check the post where the Escapist posted that it was taken down. Someone posted a download.

Nevermind it was on Gamnesia. Here you go.
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/the-amazing-fan-made-remake-of-metroid-ii-has-officially-been-taken-down
https://my.mixtape.moe/owpfrf.zip

Unlike the West, Japan does not care for Samus...or Metroid in general. I won't be surprised if this is why Nintendo is slowly turning into Konami with their more-or-less dead or dying franchises.

Wow... seeing how fast the unofficial remake disappeared I'm glad I saw a news post about it and downloaded the files immediatly. Will do the same with Pok?mon Uranium as soon as I get home from work.

Smithnikov:

aegix drakan:
It wouldn't be so harsh if Nintendo was actually doing something with the series. (Federation Force doesn't count.)

Now you know how us Streets of Rage fans felt, especially in regards to Bomberman's phenomenal remake.

But as people have stated elsewhere, the game is done and out there. Like Streets of Remake, just gotta wait for it to poke it's head out every once in a while.

Fortunately its currently easy to find. With nothing but a google search for "AM2R Download" i found it in minutes

The Wooster:
Back in Your Hole

UNLICENSED. UNCLEAN.

Read Full Article

I really don't feel for Samus here because that is Other M Samus, and I always hated that design of Samus ever since I first saw it:

image

Now if used the Samus of Metroid Prime:

image

Than I would have agreed with you.

As a Star Fox fan, I feel for Metroid fans (though take I take a slight amount of umbrage at their insistence of Nintendo's neglect of the franchise when it gotten much more attention that Star Fox), I really dislike their actions in this case.

If it wasn't for Pokemon, I would have cast out Nintendo years ago.

Is this VG Cats now?

Souplex:

gigastar:
Honestly you would think that with Nintendos historic attitude to unlisenced ports/remakes of its old games that fans wouldnt bother knowing they would get served a C&D the moment Nint peeked out of its own rectum.

The way copyright law works, they're obligated to.
If you "Fail to defend your copyright", that "Failure" can be used as evidence against you in future copyright cases. Companies are forced to be insanely overzealous with their application of copyright.

IANAL, but my understanding is that this isn't actually true. From the first two websites to show up on Google after a search of "failure to defend copyright" [Google is your friend, people]:

http://www.firstventurelegal.com/2014/05/27/supreme-court-says-failure-to-defend-copyright-not-completely-fatal-to-infringement-claims/
"The lesson for entrepreneurs to take away from Petrella is that just because a copyright holder hasn't decided to defend its copyright (even for a period of decades) doesn't mean that they won't or can't sue for damages, even if you have already invested time and resources in reliance on that non-action.... So if you want to use copyrighted material, always obtain the copyright holder's permission, even if others have been infringing on the work with no sign of protest for years."

http://www.legalmetro.com/library/copyright-law-explained.html
"5) "If you don't defend your copyright you lose it." and "Somebody has that name copyrighted!"

These two myths are also false. Most often, the name you apply to trademarks can end up being weakened or lost, if they're not defended. Let's use an example. Delta Airlines owns the term "Delta" but only if it's applied to air travel. Delta Hotels owns this copyright when it refers to hotels. Using a trademark in a way that infringes on the value of the original is prohibited by copyright laws."

gact:
can someone explain how is the game infinging copyright? isnt it that as long as you dont make money off it then you are good to go? because otherwise all fanart could be clammed as infringing copyright

Technically, most fanart is infringing copyright. It's just not worth suing over. You can't get blood from a turnip, and the company would have to prove monetary damages first anyway.

image

Also that fanmade Pokemon game is going to get the same treatment.

VaporWare:

Mike Richards:
snip

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how Trademark, Copyright and IP Law in general actually work (there's a very strong tendency for people to conflate them, since they generally relate to the same things, but cover different aspects of a thing and how they're used), and it's worth noting that 'video games' are still a very young part of entertainment media. I'm hoping this will go in a direction that helps establish some better precedent (for instance, handling this sort of fan-project in a manner akin to how the music industry handles cover versions of songs), but a lot depends on how the conversation goes once Nintendo is actually 'aware' of all this.

Right now, we can't even be sure that they're really paying attention as an organization...DMCA notices are kind of crazy easy to throw out there (as we've seen on YouTube, you don't even actually have to be the actual owner of the content in question to throw a DMCA at someone: the claim itself /is enough/ for most service providers to shrug and say 'Whelp, good luck with that.' and shut it down). The fact that they issued a DMCA but have not actually sent AM2R a C&D letter says something here...AM2R is actually continuing /work/ on the project even though they can't /distribute/ it because of the DMCA.

Nintendo /might/ come to terms with AM2R, but we're still in this vague left-hand-right-hand disconnect space until it gets to the attention of someone higher on the food chain (who can make actual decisions about these things) than whatever random watchdog clerk, intern or robot tossed the DMCA up in the first place.

It's really still too early to judge the situation with finality.

That's more or less what I mean. I keep hoping the precedent will start piling up too. The law is struggling to catch up to reality for a wide array of reasons, and for an equally wide array of reasons doesn't seem to be making much actual, helpful progress. If anything, the fact that a DMCA was issued (likely by a random clerk/intern/robot as you pointed out), when by all accounts a C&D would be the more expected and appropriate response is a big part of my problem with the whole situation. Call it half a legal/moral issue, half a 'spurned-fandom' issue.

I'm certainly no expert so maybe this is actually supposed to be part of it's jurisdiction, but in my experience I've never seen a DMCA issued against a pure intellectual property issue. I've only ever seen one called in when there are concerns of direct piracy IE: actual resources of a work are being distributed illegally. If AM2R had been made with actual sprites or sounds ripped from the existing games then I would better understand the filing.

But seeing as by my understanding it was entirely composed of original content in the image of Nintendo's IP, I would assume a C&D would be the more surefire bet, at the very least so there wouldn't be any gray area. A C&D puts them unquestionably in the legal right: It says Metroid, they own Metroid, knock it off. But by my reckoning the Digital Millennium Copyright Act is such a poorly understood framework whose implications are so complicated to say the least, I literally can't figure out why you wouldn't go for the sure thing.

It feels like inviting potential questions about the claim that they'd have no reason to risk, and considering the job of a good legal team is closing holes like that before they ever even open it just strikes me as a bizarre move. More than anything it strikes me as a move that could have quite easily never even reached the legal team (the clerk/intern/robot problem again), and those implications make me very uncomfortable in general. Yes it's all supposition in the end, but I really don't like how easy it is to suppose or lack of any real evidence to the contrary.

Either way the fact that the DMCA isn't perfect isn't really what bothers me, that's inevitable. You have an imperfect system until you can move on to a better imperfect system, and so on. What bothers me is I have been given zero reason to think that the people responsible for this system have any idea that there are parts of it that aren't working.

I have zero faith in their ability to recognize, for example, the ludicrous Fair Use violations that have been taking place on Youtube for years now because I'm honestly not sure how many of them care that Youtube exists. The 'guilty until proven innocent' approach in practice is clearly weighted against content creators and in favor of companies large enough to be perfectly capable of defending themselves without the extra help, and I have to assume that the only reason it's been allowed to carry on for as long as it has in the face of the problems it poses is that either no one who's calling the shots is aware of these problems, or no one cares.

And as far as this specific case is concerned, I have zero faith in Nintendo for recognizing this as an opportunity and not as an insect to be squashed. Maybe I'm just being cynical, in fact it's more then likely. But after years of questionable actions that suggest they have little idea what fans want, little idea what the shape of the modern industry is in general, and ultimately that they have little idea what would actually be beneficial to them in the long run, I just don't trust their decision making anymore. I would love nothing more then to be wrong, but it's gonna take a hell of a lot of effort on their part to turn that around.

Sorry, that went on for a bit longer then I was expecting. TL;DR: I have serious problems with the application of the DMCA, the choices Nintendo have made over the past several years haven't been great ones, and Clerk/Intern/Robot sounds like a sitcom.

Screw Nintendo, screw Other M and screw not making a new good Metroid.

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