No Man's Reward

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Which game is Bethesda in there for? I thought most of their recent games (Fallout 4, Doom 4) were pretty well received. Which clusterfuck-release did I forget about?

immortalfrieza:

Vrach:

immortalfrieza:

You mean other than very clearly stating that multiplayer features were nonexistent for all intents and purposes from the very start? He stated that it was extremely unlikely any player would meet up with each other and that there was no plans for there to be any means for players to be able to interact in any real fashion in the event they did meet up every time he was ever asked and people kept asking anyway.

Let's not get silly now. The "incredibly unlikely to run into other players" was very clearly stated to be the result of the massive size of their game world (or universe if you will), not the lack of the multiplayer feature.

There IS no multiplayer feature! It's incredibly unlikely that players will ever meet up and there's nothing in game for them to be able to do to each other if they did, he's very clearly stated this multiple times.

the fact that almost no one had a clear idea on what exactly these statements meant before release is more an indicator that he wasn't very clear at all. Do you have any examples of him "clearly" stating there is no multiplayer? Because none of those clips linked I would count as clear statements at all.

Statements like, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game" with his literal answer being "Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building". That is either an outright lie or obfuscation, because it is not rare, it is impossible, you can not run into or see another player at all. A clear answer would have been, "you can't see other players, only what they have named things they discovered.

Even your using this wording like its some clear indication, it's not, "incredibly unlikely" is not the same thing as saying no, it suggests there is still a chance, even if there is nothing for players to do together like the ghosts in a Dark Souls game, his line about not being able to see yourself except through someone else seeing you is a basic assertion that you will be able to see other players, you can't.

EternallyBored:

immortalfrieza:

Vrach:

Let's not get silly now. The "incredibly unlikely to run into other players" was very clearly stated to be the result of the massive size of their game world (or universe if you will), not the lack of the multiplayer feature.

There IS no multiplayer feature! It's incredibly unlikely that players will ever meet up and there's nothing in game for them to be able to do to each other if they did, he's very clearly stated this multiple times.

the fact that almost no one had a clear idea on what exactly these statements meant before release is more an indicator that he wasn't very clear at all. Do you have any examples of him "clearly" stating there is no multiplayer? Because none of those clips linked I would count as clear statements at all.

Statements like, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game" with his literal answer being "Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building". That is either an outright lie or obfuscation, because it is not rare, it is impossible, you can not run into or see another player at all. A clear answer would have been, "you can't see other players, only what they have named things they discovered.

Even your using this wording like its some clear indication, it's not, "incredibly unlikely" is not the same thing as saying no, it suggests there is still a chance, even if there is nothing for players to do together like the ghosts in a Dark Souls game, his line about not being able to see yourself except through someone else seeing you is a basic assertion that you will be able to see other players, you can't.

The features of the game are very very clear, people just decided to not pay attention to what Murray was saying or even outright ignoring him. This is a video compilation of everything that's ever been released about the game prior to release:

I don't see a single lie there anywhere.

immortalfrieza:

The features of the game are very very clear, people just decided to not pay attention to what Murray was saying or even outright ignoring him. This is a video compilation of everything that's ever been released about the game prior to release:

I don't see a single lie there anywhere.

I'm not watching a 3 hour video, let's address the shorter one specifically pointing out potential contradictions.

So the line I quoted in the previous post, what is being misunderstood here? Where is the "clear" answer you think seems to exist, because I watched the colbert interview when it aired, nothing about that answer strikes me as being clear compared to the actual game.

Once again, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game?"
"Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building"'

The answer is not yes, its no by any reasonable definition, this is a not a clear answer.

EternallyBored:

I'm not watching a 3 hour video, let's address the shorter one specifically pointing out potential contradictions.

So the line I quoted in the previous post, what is being misunderstood here? Where is the "clear" answer you think seems to exist, because I watched the colbert interview when it aired, nothing about that answer strikes me as being clear compared to the actual game.

Once again, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game?"
"Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building"'

The answer is not yes, its no by any reasonable definition, this is a not a clear answer.

Nothing is more clear than "it will rarely if ever happen." You can't use two players attempting to meet up as a barometer for the entire concept, especially since one of them wasn't even on the server at the time, at most it was a bug. Murray couldn't possibly have made it any more clear that No Man's Sky is a single player game and always has been designed as such, but people decided to ignore this and then whine when it turned out NMS wasn't a multiplayer game as they had expected.

immortalfrieza:

EternallyBored:

I'm not watching a 3 hour video, let's address the shorter one specifically pointing out potential contradictions.

So the line I quoted in the previous post, what is being misunderstood here? Where is the "clear" answer you think seems to exist, because I watched the colbert interview when it aired, nothing about that answer strikes me as being clear compared to the actual game.

Once again, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game?"
"Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building"'

The answer is not yes, its no by any reasonable definition, this is a not a clear answer.

Nothing is more clear than "it will rarely if ever happen." You can't use two players attempting to meet up as a barometer for the entire concept, especially since one of them wasn't even on the server at the time, at most it was a bug. Murray couldn't possibly have made it any more clear that No Man's Sky is a single player game and always has been designed as such, but people decided to ignore this and then whine when it turned out NMS wasn't a multiplayer game as they had expected.

It's not a bug, it's not rare, it's impossible, it's not just those two people that tried to meet up on Twitch, every attempt since then has failed too, not to mention other factors that have confirmed you cannot, in the current version of the game, meet or see other players in any form beyond seeing what they have named stuff.

Any PS4 game where you could actually meet another player, even if it's only seeing each other in passing like Journey, would require PS plus, this would be noted on physical copies of the game, it's not. The steam edition has been pulled apart by modders, and no online net code exists that would facilitate actually meeting or seeing other players. So as of right now, unless they patch it in, it is not "rare", it is impossible.

EternallyBored:

immortalfrieza:

EternallyBored:

I'm not watching a 3 hour video, let's address the shorter one specifically pointing out potential contradictions.

So the line I quoted in the previous post, what is being misunderstood here? Where is the "clear" answer you think seems to exist, because I watched the colbert interview when it aired, nothing about that answer strikes me as being clear compared to the actual game.

Once again, "Can you run into other people, other players on the game?"
"Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building"'

The answer is not yes, its no by any reasonable definition, this is a not a clear answer.

Nothing is more clear than "it will rarely if ever happen." You can't use two players attempting to meet up as a barometer for the entire concept, especially since one of them wasn't even on the server at the time, at most it was a bug. Murray couldn't possibly have made it any more clear that No Man's Sky is a single player game and always has been designed as such, but people decided to ignore this and then whine when it turned out NMS wasn't a multiplayer game as they had expected.

It's not a bug, it's not rare, it's impossible, it's not just those two people that tried to meet up on Twitch, every attempt since then has failed too, not to mention other factors that have confirmed you cannot, in the current version of the game, meet or see other players in any form beyond seeing what they have named stuff.

Any PS4 game where you could actually meet another player, even if it's only seeing each other in passing like Journey, would require PS plus, this would be noted on physical copies of the game, it's not. The steam edition has been pulled apart by modders, and no online net code exists that would facilitate actually meeting or seeing other players. So as of right now, unless they patch it in, it is not "rare", it is impossible.

People expected a multiplayer game from a game that was never stated to be anything other than a single player game and whined when it wasn't a multiplayer game. Even if for whatever reason Hello Kitty couldn't actually allow players to meet up for whatever reason they NEVER advertised that doing so was ever a feature. Maybe they decided to just kick the feature entirely since the game wasn't built for it anyway, maybe it's in the process of being overhauled, but the fact is NOTHING the trailers and interviews have ever shown promised multiplayer of any sort whatsoever.

Well that joke wasn't predictable at all

immortalfrieza:

People expected a multiplayer game from a game that was never stated to be anything other than a single player game and whined when it wasn't a multiplayer game. Even if for whatever reason Hello Kitty couldn't actually allow players to meet up for whatever reason they NEVER advertised that doing so was ever a feature. Maybe they decided to just kick the feature entirely since the game wasn't built for it anyway, maybe it's in the process of being overhauled, but the fact is NOTHING the trailers and interviews have ever shown promised multiplayer of any sort whatsoever.

now you are changing what you said. sean did say in that colbert interview that it IS possible. unlikely sure but possible. now we understand that its not. so thats a lie. this is clear.
the biggest problem with NMS and the developers was that they were never clear about what the damn game is all about. if they came out 5 months earlier saying "this and this and that is in the game. the game is about this with that being the major focus. no we dont have X and Y" then half of this shitstorm wouldn't even happen. sean murray had no idea how to inform people about the game

immortalfrieza:

EternallyBored:

immortalfrieza:

Nothing is more clear than "it will rarely if ever happen." You can't use two players attempting to meet up as a barometer for the entire concept, especially since one of them wasn't even on the server at the time, at most it was a bug. Murray couldn't possibly have made it any more clear that No Man's Sky is a single player game and always has been designed as such, but people decided to ignore this and then whine when it turned out NMS wasn't a multiplayer game as they had expected.

It's not a bug, it's not rare, it's impossible, it's not just those two people that tried to meet up on Twitch, every attempt since then has failed too, not to mention other factors that have confirmed you cannot, in the current version of the game, meet or see other players in any form beyond seeing what they have named stuff.

Any PS4 game where you could actually meet another player, even if it's only seeing each other in passing like Journey, would require PS plus, this would be noted on physical copies of the game, it's not. The steam edition has been pulled apart by modders, and no online net code exists that would facilitate actually meeting or seeing other players. So as of right now, unless they patch it in, it is not "rare", it is impossible.

People expected a multiplayer game from a game that was never stated to be anything other than a single player game and whined when it wasn't a multiplayer game. Even if for whatever reason Hello Kitty couldn't actually allow players to meet up for whatever reason they NEVER advertised that doing so was ever a feature. Maybe they decided to just kick the feature entirely since the game wasn't built for it anyway, maybe it's in the process of being overhauled, but the fact is NOTHING the trailers and interviews have ever shown promised multiplayer of any sort whatsoever.

And again we go back to the Colbert interview, "can you run into other people" "yes".

Maybe you are right and it's something that was planned and dropped, but all the interviews right up until release followed the Colbert style answers: "can you meet with other people" "can you grief other player?" "will we see other players?" all with answers of yes but it's so rare, the developer, and even when he came out and said there was no multiplayer, there was no elaboration on his previous statements, no "yeah we wanted to have players be visible to each other but it's not a feature at launch"

You are focusing too much on the concept of lying as if mr. Murray was being purposely deceitful, but that's not my argument, only that he over promised in a vague noncommittal fashion, he answered questions in a vague fashion that left too much open to interpretation, more than I've seen any other developer bar molyneux do.

Which is what this comic comes down to, Molyneux is someone I generally thought wasn't lying in a malicious manner, he was someone that genuinely wanted to do the things he said but got carried away and over promised things, and by the time the game was almost out, was not able to back up his own hype. I get the same impression from Murray, when he talks about choosing factions, interceding in factions fighting each other, talking about players meeting each other, and planets rotating around their star, all things that are either not in the game, or in such a bare bones fashion they do not live up to the impassioned way Mr. Murray talked about them. Some fans took the hype train to ridiculous places, but like I said, in researching the game before release, Mr. Murray was very vague on the games features and functions, he rarely just gave straight answers, and often hyped things up in ways that seemed impossible for his small team to meet. He very much came off in a similar manner to the old Peter Molyneux pie in the sky promises that didn't turn out nearly as interesting as their pitch.

sagitel:

immortalfrieza:

People expected a multiplayer game from a game that was never stated to be anything other than a single player game and whined when it wasn't a multiplayer game. Even if for whatever reason Hello Kitty couldn't actually allow players to meet up for whatever reason they NEVER advertised that doing so was ever a feature. Maybe they decided to just kick the feature entirely since the game wasn't built for it anyway, maybe it's in the process of being overhauled, but the fact is NOTHING the trailers and interviews have ever shown promised multiplayer of any sort whatsoever.

now you are changing what you said. sean did say in that colbert interview that it IS possible. unlikely sure but possible. now we understand that its not. so thats a lie. this is clear.
the biggest problem with NMS and the developers was that they were never clear about what the damn game is all about. if they came out 5 months earlier saying "this and this and that is in the game. the game is about this with that being the major focus. no we dont have X and Y" then half of this shitstorm wouldn't even happen. sean murray had no idea how to inform people about the game

Except MY point is Hello Kity DID in fact state exactly what the game was about and what features were going to be in it LONG before the game was ever released. Sean Murray stated what the features of No Man's Sky outright repeatedly since it was announced 2 years ago, they were as clear as day even if one wasn't following development that closely. Hello Kitty put in the game not only exactly what Sean Murray claimed they would, but even more than that with the Day Zero patch. Hello Kitty went above and beyond the call of duty when making this game and informing the fans about it, they could have been vague and noncommital about it, but they were very open about the game, it's central point, and it's features.

EternallyBored:
Snip

No, Sean Murray comes off as someone very clear and very honest about this game, more so than he likely should've been, while the players come off as they chose not to pay any attention to anything he said, made crap up, found themselves flying blind, and then complaining about something that was their fault in the first place. The only legitimate criticism of No Man's Sky I've seen involves the PC version's problems, and I would like to see some actual NUMBERS showing how many are experiencing these issues as opposed to the entire playerbase, a real barometer for how serious these issues actually are.

In defense of NMS, a lot of developers have dreams and ideas that simply cannot pan out given the reality of their budget/skills/ect. This should be expected to some degree when a developer suggests something on such a grand scale. This does not make them a liar per se, just someone who wanted to do things and found out they couldn't Nothing in an interview should be considered a "promise" unless stated as such.

However, having looked into the marketing done just months before the game launched and some of the things that were said, it sure does look like Hello was up to some no good. The sheer amount of things they said/showed while marketing the game vs how they actually work/don't exist at all in the finished product is, at least, VERY misleading. A LOT of very fundamental, non-window dressing mechanics they said would be a core part of the game simply do not exist at all or anywhere close to what they said they would be.

This is Colonial Marines level of misinforming the public. Thankfully, I didn't pay attention to any of this stuff before I bought the game and so was not crushed with the same disappointment as most. But looking back through the interviews and articles, yeah, people are pissed for very good reasons.

immortalfrieza:

No, Sean Murray comes off as someone very clear and very honest about this game, more so than he likely should've been, while the players come off as they chose not to pay any attention to anything he said, made crap up, found themselves flying blind, and then complaining about something that was their fault in the first place. The only legitimate criticism of No Man's Sky I've seen involves the PC version's problems, and I would like to see some actual NUMBERS showing how many are experiencing these issues as opposed to the entire playerbase, a real barometer for how serious these issues actually are.

Do you consider him clear and honest about things like how the systems used real physics? The giant space battles? The major differences between the ships?

That's just a few claims that are either so pared down that they don't fit what he was saying at all or simply don't exist in any way. As far as I can tell, the planets do not orbit the sun or revolve on their axis. Their position to the sun has no effect on the environment of each planet. There are none of the big space battles with different race factions interacting with one another. There are no differences between the ships except the number of slots.

All of this is VERY different from what was claimed/shown. So to simply say he was totally super honest and it was JUST the players making up features that they never intended to exist seems an extraordinary claim.

immortalfrieza:
and interviews have ever shown promised multiplayer of any sort whatsoever.

"Can you run into other people, other players on the game?" - Colbert
"Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare, just because of the size of what we are building"' - Murray

I really see no other explanation. Also, there are other interviews where Sean says that you can only tell what your character looks like
via other players.

There's a good joke in this comic struggling to get out. It doesn't make it, tho.

Wow, the denial is strong in frieza.

http://www.onemanslie.info/the-original-reddit-post/

bificommander:
Which game is Bethesda in there for? I thought most of their recent games (Fallout 4, Doom 4) were pretty well received. Which clusterfuck-release did I forget about?

Well besides the fact that they've lied about having a new engine for .... 5(6?) games now, which is highly related to many of the bugs that their consistently broken releases have. Which is funny, because you'd think after 15 years on it they'd fix some of them by now, but nah, let the modders handle it.

Other then that, I remember Skyrim promising tons of stuff that never materialized in game, or in the most limp half-hearted forms possible. Dual-casting was a big one, that they hyped as being able to combine any two spells for new unique effects, when all it does in game is shoot an identical but more damage/duration variety of the same-spell and not combo any differing spells. A lot of the general writing and faction interactions were also promised to be more organic and interactive, with your choices making impacts on the world. Instead everything exists in a vacuum outside of spouts of random guard dialogue, many of which don't even make sense for them to know. Dragon fighting as also hyped up as a lot more dynamic, and the more cutsceney battles where the dragons pick up NPCs and flie off and such were used in marketing. In the actual game, they spawn every 5 minutes, have no particularly dynamic behaviour, and conveniently land to fight you in a battle of power attack spam like every other enemy. After bungling Oblivion back and forth on Playstation (they took forever to pach some serious bugs, then somehow unfixed them for the GOTY release), they promised parity, and somehow delivered an even more broken version of the game that would memory leak and became an unplayable sub-10fps mess within an hour or two of play. Radiant quests were supposed to be endless possibilities for adventure, but obviously had a lackluster implementation at best, and even for what they were, were plagued with issues like somehow choosing the same dungeon multiple times in a row (which still shows up in Fallout 4, which uses the same system).

(It should also be noted that Skyrim was released a year after Dark Souls, and around the same time as Dragons Dogma, which really put a critical filter on their very lackluster ARPG combat that they were mostly coasting on from Oblivion)

Kind of amusingly, I said around E3 that Bethesda/Zenimax is probably a better publisher then a developer nowadays. As their substudios in Arkane and ID seem to be doing much better at keeping a positive impression nowadays. Even Elder Scrolls online (which is developed by some other team then the regular ES) came out relatively bug free and with a more solid reception.

OldFogeyGamer:
Wow, the denial is strong in frieza.

http://www.onemanslie.info/the-original-reddit-post/

I'm not going to get into some massive argument about this. However, I've been hearing that Murray "lied" or "overhyped" or didn't deliver on his promises or whatever all over the internet and it all strikes me as incredibly ludicrous because Sean Murray couldn't have possibly been more clear about any of this stuff without sitting down and doing a 100 hour let's play of the game right before release and showing everybody directly. It's like these people who complain about it didn't ever take 10 minutes to actually TRY to find out what the game was about or something, then whined they didn't get the game they were promised.

Clankenbeard:
Gearbox & Bethesda?!?? Aw. No Roberts Space Industries? And don't we all still hate EA still? Nice big comic. You guys put some work into this one.

Repetetive Strain Injury's game isn't actually out yet.

Assuming it does actually come out and get finished we'll then have to see if it turns out be a good game or not. If they go bust or deliver No Man's Sky 2.0 then Roaming Space Indefinitely's berth in the ball pit of oblivion is assured.

Or perhaps that's the punishment, under going birth, straight into the Ball Pit of Oblivion forever and all time...

lacktheknack:
The Dashcon reference is beautiful.

Tears in my eyes. I wasn't ready. :D

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