Zero Punctuation: ReCore

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Transdude1996:

Daniel Greenberg:

bastardofmelbourne:

What the other posters have already obliquely pointed out, and which you seem to have missed, is that the absence of a father can, in itself, be a "daddy issue." In fact, it's one of the more common ones in fiction, as an absentee father is easier to make sympathetic than an abusive one.

I would have thought this was bleedingly self-evident, but apparently not.

I haven't missed the point; I just don't agree with it. Anakin Skywalker had an absentee father, but that sure as hell didn't do anything to make him sympathetic in the prequels.

That's because people are often too busy giving Lucas shit for making Anakin "I'm lost in a universe beyond my control" Skywalker, meanwhile remaining nostalgic for Luke "Under the watchful eye of Ben" Skywalker and prasing the introduction of Rey "I'm good at everything within a day" Sue (I forgot her last name).

I assume you've seen Episode IV. Could you please explain why Rey gets crap for almost instantaneously being good at, say, using a lightsaber while no one gives Luke Skywalker crap for the exact same thing?

Daniel Greenberg:

Transdude1996:

Daniel Greenberg:

I haven't missed the point; I just don't agree with it. Anakin Skywalker had an absentee father, but that sure as hell didn't do anything to make him sympathetic in the prequels.

That's because people are often too busy giving Lucas shit for making Anakin "I'm lost in a universe beyond my control" Skywalker, meanwhile remaining nostalgic for Luke "Under the watchful eye of Ben" Skywalker and prasing the introduction of Rey "I'm good at everything within a day" Sue (I forgot her last name).

I assume you've seen Episode IV. Could you please explain why Rey gets crap for almost instantaneously being good at, say, using a lightsaber while no one gives Luke Skywalker crap for the exact same thing?

Because deflecting a few shots from a training device doesn't mean you can take on Darth Vader.

Transdude1996:

Daniel Greenberg:

Transdude1996:

That's because people are often too busy giving Lucas shit for making Anakin "I'm lost in a universe beyond my control" Skywalker, meanwhile remaining nostalgic for Luke "Under the watchful eye of Ben" Skywalker and prasing the introduction of Rey "I'm good at everything within a day" Sue (I forgot her last name).

I assume you've seen Episode IV. Could you please explain why Rey gets crap for almost instantaneously being good at, say, using a lightsaber while no one gives Luke Skywalker crap for the exact same thing?

Because deflecting a few shots from a training device doesn't mean you can take on Darth Vader.

And yet he still manages to blow up the Death Star using the Force, something he didn't know about until he met Obi-Wan.

Daniel Greenberg:
The "lady from the new Star Wars" is named "Rey," thank you very much. Also, how can she have daddy issues if the movie doesn't even say who her dad is? Just a thought...

I feel like you're just feet away from awareness, but you haven't quite made it.

Girls got so many daddy issues she dressed as Sylvia Plath for Halloween.

Fox12:

Daniel Greenberg:
The "lady from the new Star Wars" is named "Rey," thank you very much. Also, how can she have daddy issues if the movie doesn't even say who her dad is? Just a thought...

I feel like you're just feet away from awareness, but you haven't quite made it.

Girls got so many daddy issues she dressed as Sylvia Plath for Halloween.

I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

Daniel Greenberg:

Fox12:

Daniel Greenberg:
The "lady from the new Star Wars" is named "Rey," thank you very much. Also, how can she have daddy issues if the movie doesn't even say who her dad is? Just a thought...

I feel like you're just feet away from awareness, but you haven't quite made it.

Girls got so many daddy issues she dressed as Sylvia Plath for Halloween.

I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

That's why most people criticize daddy issues in fiction.

Personally, I don't think that's fair, since both men and women have issues related to their parents In real life. Hence Sylvia Plath, who was pretty much a poster child for that kind of thing. It's not just women, it's human.

Fox12:

Daniel Greenberg:

Fox12:

I feel like you're just feet away from awareness, but you haven't quite made it.

Girls got so many daddy issues she dressed as Sylvia Plath for Halloween.

I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

That's why most people criticize daddy issues in fiction.

Personally, I don't think that's fair, since both men and women have issues related to their parents In real life. Hence Sylvia Plath, who was pretty much a poster child for that kind of thing. It's not just women, it's human.

In fairness to Sylvia Plath, her father died when she was 8 or 9. And yet I haven't heard as many jokes about, say, Batman having daddy issues.

Daniel Greenberg:

Fox12:

Daniel Greenberg:

I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

That's why most people criticize daddy issues in fiction.

Personally, I don't think that's fair, since both men and women have issues related to their parents In real life. Hence Sylvia Plath, who was pretty much a poster child for that kind of thing. It's not just women, it's human.

In fairness to Sylvia Plath, her father died when she was 8 or 9. And yet I haven't heard as many jokes about, say, Batman having daddy issues.

Really? I hear jokes about Batman all the time. I figured it was pretty much a meme at this point. Different experiences, I guess.

You can look at something like Neon Genesis Evangelion, though, and see the same thing. Every character in that series has parental issues. Misato fits the bill perfectly. She hated her dad, but then grew up to be him, and dates a man just like him. Shinji has those issues too. But who gets the attention for it? Shinji. Yet I feel like both characters are realistic in their portrayals. I don't think the "daddy issues" trope is bad in itself. I think it can just be badly handled. You definitely don't want female characters who are entirely dependent of men all the time. Ray, for instance, is fine. Samus, from Other M, was not.

Fox12:

Daniel Greenberg:

Fox12:

That's why most people criticize daddy issues in fiction.

Personally, I don't think that's fair, since both men and women have issues related to their parents In real life. Hence Sylvia Plath, who was pretty much a poster child for that kind of thing. It's not just women, it's human.

In fairness to Sylvia Plath, her father died when she was 8 or 9. And yet I haven't heard as many jokes about, say, Batman having daddy issues.

Really? I hear jokes about Batman all the time. I figured it was pretty much a meme at this point. Different experiences, I guess.

You can look at something like Neon Genesis Evangelion, though, and see the same thing. Every character in that series has parental issues. Misato fits the bill perfectly. She hated her dad, but then grew up to be him, and dates a man just like him. Shinji has those issues too. But who gets the attention for it? Shinji. Yet I feel like both characters are realistic in their portrayals. I don't think the "daddy issues" trope is bad in itself. I think it can just be badly handled. You definitely don't want female characters who are entirely dependent of men all the time. Ray, for instance, is fine. Samus, from Other M, was not.

Fair enough.

Daniel Greenberg:

PunkRex:

Daniel Greenberg:
The "lady from the new Star Wars" is named "Rey," thank you very much. Also, how can she have daddy issues if the movie doesn't even say who her dad is? Just a thought...

So you're saying I shouldn't have any issues with the guy who rammed into my brother's car, while drunk, almost killing him as I don't know who he is...

And yet, here I am, still mad.

This is different. You had a pretty clear reason to have an issue with the guy. But "The Force Awakens" never reveals who Rey's dad is, let alone what he might've done to give her "daddy issues."

Good point, but I'm fairly sure I remember Rey stating that her family left her there and she's waiting for them to come back, whether that's actually what happened hasn't been revealed but it's the conclusion she's come to. No matter how well adjusted a person you are that's gonna leave a mark, even with a perfectly legitimate reason for them abandoning her/failing to contact her, the mystery itself is gonna cause issues.

Daniel Greenberg:

Transdude1996:

Daniel Greenberg:

I haven't missed the point; I just don't agree with it. Anakin Skywalker had an absentee father, but that sure as hell didn't do anything to make him sympathetic in the prequels.

That's because people are often too busy giving Lucas shit for making Anakin "I'm lost in a universe beyond my control" Skywalker, meanwhile remaining nostalgic for Luke "Under the watchful eye of Ben" Skywalker and prasing the introduction of Rey "I'm good at everything within a day" Sue (I forgot her last name).

I assume you've seen Episode IV. Could you please explain why Rey gets crap for almost instantaneously being good at, say, using a lightsaber while no one gives Luke Skywalker crap for the exact same thing?

Biggs mentioned that Luke is one the best pilots out there just prior to them flying off for the battle, and, during the briefing, Luke joked about shooting weasels for sport that were the same size as the hole.

Actually, now that I think about it, Obi-Wan's advice to Luke is somewhere along the lines of a "Believe in yourself" moment since the force is summarized as an extension of will (Queue Green Lantern reference), and Luke was only doing what came naturally.

Though, to bring the topic back to Rey, I cannot see the "extension of will" part relating to her when she mind controls the guard or fights Kylo (Unless I forgot a scene demonstrating that she's a natural at manipulation, and/or close-quarters combat).

Transdude1996:
Snip

Biggs spent 99% of his life living on a backwater desert planet. He's not really an authority on who is a good pilot and isn't. Particularly since Luke's flying on his homeworld would've consisted mainly of shooting wamp rats and flying through Beggar's Canyon. Something that doesn't really compare to being in a dogfight with something that moves as fast as a TIE fighter does. Particularly, particularly considering he was talking about the best pilots out there without bringing up Wedge freaking Antilles. So I'm sorry, Luke really should've been one of the first people to be vapped during the Death Star attack if we're looking at this from a realistic standpoint.

Kylo Ren. Is. Pathetic. Defeating him is not an impressive achievement. He's the only only major character in all of the movies who was both a force user and had a lightsaber, and managed to get hit by a blaster. He then proceeded to fight Finn, someone who was wielding a lightsaber for the second time in his life, and who had earlier gotten his ass beaten in a melee fight by a rank and file storm trooper. For the record, lightsabers are incredibly hard for non-force users to wield, as they can easily kill themselves with it. Despite this, Finn managed to hold his own for awhile, and deliver a direct hit to Kylo Ren, whose attacks became much slower and more telegraphed after that. All Rey did was beat a guy who put up a worse showing than a storm trooper.

I don't recall a scene where Luke was natural at forcing proton torpedoes down exhaust ports. It's Star Wars man, they play fast and loose with their own rules all the time.

Daniel Greenberg:
I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

Riiight. I was wondering when the gender war subtext would emerge.

Saying someone has unresolved psychological issues over one or both of their parents ("daddy/mummy issues") isn't condescending towards women because...well, women aren't the only ones with fathers. Anyone can suffer from internal turmoil caused by the absence of one or both parents.

Saying "the idea of a woman having daddy issues is condescending towards women" isn't politically correct. It's just...dumb. And it ignores all the men in fiction who have daddy issues. Superman. Hamlet. Shinji Ikari. Zeus. Jesus (as in, from the Bible.) Horus (as in, from Warhammer 40,000.) Horus (as in, from Egyptian mythology.) I'd say Oedipus, but he was kind of a two-for-one combo deal.

bastardofmelbourne:

Daniel Greenberg:
I am aware of what you're saying; I just don't agree with it. Call me "politically correct," but to my mind, the idea of a woman having "daddy issues" just seems a little condescending towards women because it assumes a woman can't make a decision that isn't affected by how she feels about her dad.

Saying someone has unresolved psychological issues over one or both of their parents ("daddy/mummy issues") isn't condescending towards women because...well, women aren't the only ones with fathers. Anyone can suffer from internal turmoil caused by the absence of one or both parents.

Saying "the idea of a woman having daddy issues is condescending towards women" isn't politically correct. It's just...dumb. And it ignores all the men in fiction who have daddy issues.

Okay, the first part I'll admit is true. But, and this might have been due to a lack of clarification on my part, it's less about the idea and more about context. It's like when people are labeled "retarded." Sure, some people genuinely have learning disabilities, but using "retarded" as shorthand for someone who just does something stupid is itself kind of stupid. Similarly, yes, there are people who genuinely have unresolved psychological issues over one or both of their parents. But, for example, remember when Yahtzee compared the "Doom" reboot to an attractive woman hooking up with him at a bar, and said that "After playing through 'Deum,' I think I've come to realize that people who come onto me might not necessarily be gold-digging harlots - some of them are just trying to get back at their dad"? I get that he was joking, but if a guy really thinks that about a woman, isn't he overlooking the possibility that, just maybe, she's actually into guys like that? That's what I meant by saying the idea of a woman having daddy issues is condescending towards women.

Daniel Greenberg:
The "lady from the new Star Wars" is named "Rey," thank you very much. Also, how can she have daddy issues if the movie doesn't even say who her dad is? Just a thought...

Maybe she blames him for giving her the first name Rey with the last name Mixer?

The Thing is must see for all Antarctic research stations. Do your work and get the hell out, or find out that you are the warmest place for aliens to hide, down here.

Yahtzee moved to America? Considering Donald Trump and the bi-weekly shootings, I think you'd have to be pretty crazy to move to the U.S at this point in time.

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