192: Bushido and Beamsabers

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Onmi:

apparently you never watched Gundam, his nickname is 'Kill Em All Tomino' for a god damn reason. Unless he's doing a comedy in which his main character will end up in a Harem... Seriously... Don't look at me Like that!

Also props to Kabuto Kouji for headshotting Duke Gorgon through his tiger head and human head in one shot.

in most mecha games they also treat loss as death. save a select few.
Gundam Deaths from 0079-87

Boom! Bazooka headshot!

Also, thanks a ton. Now I'm going to have 'Jumping Onto White Base' stuck in my head all day.

Meta Like That:
Honestly, it's not that hard, people. You have to think about what you want out of the game. Do you wanna just blow shit up, or do you want the developer to treat you like you have working brain cells?

Depends on my mood. That's why I have both Toki Tori and Earth Defense Force among my favourite games.

You don't have to be lazy to be initially overwhelmed by all the options and balancing, but to pass it off as overly complicated for the sake of it is not giving it a fair chance. It's about immersion. It's about building something from scratch that has your stamp on it, and then testing it in the heat of battle, like a custom forged katana.

However it's the game's job to actually make the concept interesting to the player and to allow him to figure out what he's dealing with before being required to make life or death choices. Throwing the player right into a massive customization screen isn't going to go well. A manual doesn't help there, manuals tend to describe stuff too fluffy and make a lasgun sound like a BFG. What the player has to know is how the parts will perform ingame, why he's choosing them, etc. What the player needs is experience. The worst scenario is when a game forces the player to make important decisions without experience that have long term consequences and could end up screwing him over permanently because he entered the campaign as a beginner instead of a veteran.

As for the concept of a mech itself, it's somewhere between a way of making individual characters have a tangible influence on a war (no single soldier had the impact of a single Gundam) and getting armored vehicles that actually look interesting when fighting (a lot of the things that happen in tank combat are not apparent to the casual observer, between the efficiency of the crew at loadiong the gun and the use of cover, stronger and weaker armor areas, etc). Often important characters in a mech war get super powerful unique mechs that can win a battle practically alone (ugh Code Geass, no strategy survives a Deus Ex Machina), you'll have a hard time selling to your audience that a real battle was won by a single soldier or armored vehicle. Maybe if your character was someone like Superman or Captain America but superheroes pretty much went out of style and while super-powered mechs or powerarmors may be possible in the future a bullet proof human isn't as believable.

Though maybe a game about Hans-Ulrich Rudel could work, if we ignore for a moment that most people wouldn't want to play as a Nazi.

What the hell is up with Code Geass anyway? I'm aware that it's supposed to be a decent show, but it makes no sense. British Empire win things which they didn't in history? That's reasonable - there's been more crazy alternate history stories that have worked well. Expanded British Empire, now called Britannia, takes on Japan, who resists heavily? Less plausible, considering that Japan didn't move towards technological prowess until the 1900s, but reasonable nonetheless. Britannia using gigantic mecha? Now, that's insanity.

There is no reasonable way that an empire originally based in the British Isles would ever move towards mecha. During the medieval period, they were renowned for their archers; as muskets replaced longbows, the British Empire was defined by its elite infantry and world-beating navy. By World War II, their air force and navy kept them secure from invasion. At no point during British military history have they shown any signs of moving towards something like mecha, probably because the first attack helicopter that happened to pass by would just shoot them in the legs and be done with it. I know it's hardly meant to be realistic, but implanting that specific piece of Japanese culture into a British Empire can hardly be considered reasonable, particularly as Britain very quickly abandoned knights once they realised they could field an army of musketeers for far cheaper.

RAKtheUndead:
What the hell is up with Code Geass anyway? I'm aware that it's supposed to be a decent show, but it makes no sense. British Empire win things which they didn't in history? That's reasonable - there's been more crazy alternate history stories that have worked well. Expanded British Empire, now called Britannia, takes on Japan, who resists heavily? Less plausible, considering that Japan didn't move towards technological prowess until the 1900s, but reasonable nonetheless. Britannia using gigantic mecha? Now, that's insanity.

The point of historical divergence of the Geass world is the American Civil War. In the Geass world, America was sold out by Benjamin Franklin (Geass was involved somehow), but Britain lost the Napoleonic Wars, so the royal family relocated to North America and used it's material resources to start a rather different empire, but Europe was united under Napoleon.

The local unobtainium, Sakuradite, obviously changed things as well, and appears to be the catchall explanation for why rollerskating mecha beat tanks. (even in the first series, when it's still largely Real Robots, and the Super Robots haven't hit the field yet)

At no point during British military history have they shown any signs of moving towards something like mecha

Except when we invented tanks. Of course. It's about force multiplication, in the highly improbable world of Geass, Knightmare Frames are the most effective force multiplier, despite how silly mecha would be for combat in the real world.

Solipsis:

ThePlasmatizer:

Mecha games will not succeed in the west unless we get something that is worth playing.

The easiest mainstream debut imo would be a Mecha game that plays like a fps with destructible environments, various energy weapons and miniature cityscape battlefields.

Ah yes, the only way to make something new popular in the west is to revamp it so it's exactly the same as what's already popular in the west...

So instead of a diverse set of genres we get one amorphous muddy blur of a genre. I'd just love it if everything was sort of an RPG and sort of a shooter like Mass Effect or sort of an Adventure game and sort of a shooter like Bioshock.

I know, let's just make all games more like shooters!

/rolling eyes

You know that they made a Gundam arcade game just like that, right? The cabinet was the cockpit, you had 3 screens representing you vision, etc. Was awesomeness beyond comparison.
I don't think that a mech game that gives you movement options is gonna be simple or streamlined in the controls. AC is a good example. Even the older games that were far slower than the recent outings required dextrous ability. The trade of is once you wrangled in the wonky controls, you could be a holy terror.
I could make a Wii focused casual joke, but I'll not sink to that today.
Also, all of you need to go out and find Robot Alchemic Drive, also known as RAD, because that game is the best old school mecha game ever.

Onmi:

teh_v:
I think people love mecha games because it lets you pretend like your something larger then life. In a mecha game you can battle to the destruction of your mech, then eject and live to fight another day. Also, with mecha combat the battle can seem more intense and longer with a larger focus on skill and training not impersonal things like luck and strategy. In a mech you wont die from a single bullet to the head. Your skill in piloting the mech and ability to properly gear your mech for the fight will decide who wins. It a romanticizing of war. You can have all the glory of combat without the risk of death. That's just not a Japanese thing that a human nature thing.

I'll never forget in one of the battletech books "ideal war" a couple of mech pilots get captured and one of the pilots has a nervous break down because he's no longer safe "in his metal", and can now face death and war upfront and personal. That's what fantasying about being a mech pilot gives us. We can be a war hero but the chance of death in combat lowers incredible. To the point where it's no longer a factor in worrying about our survival.

apparently you never watched Gundam, his nickname is 'Kill Em All Tomino' for a god damn reason. Unless he's doing a comedy in which his main character will end up in a Harem... Seriously... Don't look at me Like that!

Also props to Kabuto Kouji for headshotting Duke Gorgon through his tiger head and human head in one shot.

in most mecha games they also treat loss as death. save a select few.
Gundam Deaths from 0079-87

You gotta love Char's epic headshot at 4:25. Death in Gundam is very very common, almost every loss = death. My favorite though is the death of Lala Sune, and the anguish both men feel when it happens, which turns them both into true enemies. Before it had been a matter of being on opposite sides, after Sune dies it becomes personal. The extent of which is evident in their last battle when Gundam is finally destroyed but they keep fighting hand to hand even as the ship around them demolishes.

That sort of spirit, that 'nekketsu' is the real attraction for alot of giant robot shows.

WOOOHOOO Gundam and Armored Core, SCORE...

...oddly enough the article perked my interest in Steel Battalion

EDIT: Oh...and Fin Funnels = Win

I agree with Anoctris that the article probably goes a little overboard on Samurai/Mecha romanticism (which I say, even though I myself am a mecha fan :P )

Glorifying needlessly complicated control schemes is the true fault of the article though. Which is odd because Virtual On is mentioned without identifying why that series was so damn popular: it was simple to learn, but had deep gameplay. That's the holy grail of gaming!

Also Armored Core isn't quite what I'd consider "welcoming" to new players. Even as someone who wants to enjoy mecha games, I just couldn't get into the series for its awkward controls.

If more mecha games had Virtual On's combination of accessibility and depth, they'd be a lot more popular with the Western audience. Maybe not as popular as more realistic games (because western culture still scoffs at the inherent inefficiencies of giant, walking tanks) but quite a bit more popular than they currently are.

KDR_11k:
However it's the game's job to actually make the concept interesting to the player and to allow him to figure out what he's dealing with before being required to make life or death choices... The worst scenario is when a game forces the player to make important decisions without experience that have long term consequences and could end up screwing him over permanently because he entered the campaign as a beginner instead of a veteran.

What mech games have you played that did this?

As for the concept of a mech itself, it's somewhere between a way of making individual characters have a tangible influence on a war (no single soldier had the impact of a single Gundam) and getting armored vehicles that actually look interesting when fighting (a lot of the things that happen in tank combat are not apparent to the casual observer, between the efficiency of the crew at loadiong the gun and the use of cover, stronger and weaker armor areas, etc). Often important characters in a mech war get super powerful unique mechs that can win a battle practically alone (ugh Code Geass, no strategy survives a Deus Ex Machina), you'll have a hard time selling to your audience that a real battle was won by a single soldier or armored vehicle. Maybe if your character was someone like Superman or Captain America but superheroes pretty much went out of style and while super-powered mechs or powerarmors may be possible in the future a bullet proof human isn't as believable.

Pretty much. It gets romanticized for dramatization, which makes the dawning of the reality of it during your youth a bit of a blow: Every soldier is expendable.

For SRPGs look no further than Super Robot Wars and Gihren's Greed/Ambition.

The first is what happens when you combine the plots of MULTIPLE robot series, stick em in a blender, set it to liquify, and then tell it. Great fun all around


CantFakeTheFunk seems to like Gundam a lot, well remember how everyone (basically) dies in Zeta? Well SRW averts all that bullshit, following specific requirements Reccoa rejoins the Londo Bell, Sara betrays Scirocco, Four is kept alive and her power is enough to stop Camille from getting mind raped. How about putting Judau in the Nu-Gundam? Lt. Burning living, Monsha not betraying you.

Most of Gundam's tragedys are averted because SRW is a very happy game.

MX gives Rom Stoll of Machine Robo the spotlight in changing End of Evangelion. There, the scene only gets as far as the instant before Asuka dies at the hands of the MP Evas. Right before the moment of agony anybody who's seen the movie has come to expect, we hear Rom yell "WAIT!" He goes on to explain to the gibbering monsters that sometimes, when everything seems darkest, the tide of battle can turn in an instant, and that's what's known as "divine intervention". Then he and 15 other fighters appear on the battlefield at maximum Will and proceed to rip the EVAs apart.

In Super Robot Wars Alpha, the Third Angel is making short work of Neo-Tokyo 3 when a man in a snappy suit and a cigar steps out, and manages to fight the Godzilla-sized monster to a standstill with his bare hands. That man is Alberto The Shockwave.

Later, when fighting a different Angel, the Victory Gundam battleship Reinforce Jr. actually manages to kill it, leaving its captain stunned that it worked and everyone else wondering what the hell just happened.
For the record, only the Evangelion people and the captain himself are truly surprised. Everyone else just puts another notch onto the leaderboard, under Bright Noah.

Musashi's Back-from-the-dead moment in Super Robot Wars Alpha 3, wherein he finds a way, depite being dead to reactivate Shin Getter Robo when it was obvious that the Getter crew needed it.

In Alpha 3, following the Tear Jerker ending of GaoGaiGar FINAL, all of the Alpha numbers are trapped, apparently forever, in an interdimensional void, with only enough power to send two small children back to Earth. They're not even going to bring back help - none of the team has any hope of that - just to tell their story to the people they saved. To make matters worse, a villain with the ability to teleport into and out of the void at will has decided to put them out of their misery. Right when everything looks positively doomed, a beam of energy appears out of nowhere, and the pocket dimension they're in literally shatters, revealing a newly rebuilt and upgraded form of the series' flagship robot: SRX Altered Banpreios, which proceeds to load its traditional pilot (who was stranded with the other playable characters) on board and kick a truly epic amount of ass.

In the same game, but in Touma's path, the debut of his Super Robot RaiOh's upgraded form, the DaiRaiOh, singlehandedly destroys one hundred enemy mecha in a single battle. If this doesn't quality as as Bad Ass, this tropers doesn't know what is. Yet, it probably helps that Touma was trained by Guy Shishioh from Gao Gai Gar.

And Heero...and Wufei...and Kazuya...and Tetsuya...and Camille, and...well, the Alpha Numbers are a (mixed) martial arts convention/tournament in mechanized division form, so Touma learns from everybody.

In SRW Z, it's Zeuth Vs Zeuth, meaning Archangel Vs. Minerva, Zeta Gundam Vs Eureka Seven, Turn A Gundam vs Gundam X, Mazinger Z vs Grendizer, Zambot 3 vs Baldios, Char'sCounterattack vs Overman King Gainer, Gravion vs The Big O. YEAH

In SRW Alpha Gaiden, after the group is sent to the future, Sayaka and Musashi are MIA for a long while. It's finally revealed they are being held hostage by Archduke Gorgon, at which point he desires to use them as human shields. Banjou Haran from Daitarn 3 coldly and honestly declares he doesn't care how many people he'll have to kill, he won't let Gorgon live in this world anymore. His delivery is so bitter and cold Gorgon backs down and hands over Sayaka, Musashi and Daitarn's support crew, no strings attached. Utterly amazing.

Roy Fokker LIVES!

All one game people. All of it.

EDIT: Why do people assume mecha are invincible? they get torn up and their pilots are injured enough that it's FRIGHTENING.

BARELY any mecha has gone it's series without severe damage. Pilots die! good guys and bad guys!

Also Marvel are now subtitling the Japanese Spiderman, I say that because the Japanese Spiderman has a Giant Robot.

Seriously.

No I'm not joking, Giant Robot.
image
Marvel release a new episode every thursday

Roy Fokker lives? Somehow that decreases his awesomeness though. Roys most awesome moment was when he took shrapnel, got out, walked away, hung out with his girlfreind, then died over salad. They probably had Sex first knowing Roy.

How could you talk about mech game control schemes and not mention Robot Alchemic Drive for the PS2? That was one of the most unique takes on the genre I've ever seen. Players controlled a human character who could jump between rooftops with rocketboot type things, and then pressed select to switch to control of a large mech that size of said buildings. You had to balance finding an appropriate viewpoint with trying not to place yourself in danger.
The actual mech control itself was a lot more manual and 1:1 than what you usually see as well; the shoulder buttons were used in this complex lift-foot, move-forward, set-down type deal, so that even simple walking felt like a skilled accomplishment.
It gave the game overall a very tactical, heavy feel, rather than the typical side-strafing boost-jumping crap you get in a gundamn game.
Damn, I want to go play that now.

TsunamiWombat:
Roy Fokker lives? Somehow that decreases his awesomeness though. Roys most awesome moment was when he took shrapnel, got out, walked away, hung out with his girlfreind, then died over salad. They probably had Sex first knowing Roy.

He lives on well into the Macross Seven events, leads the Skull Squadron, and is one of the most respected members of the Alpha Numbers/Londo Bell, he's also piss drunk half the time.

I've been really enjoying people's responses to the article and it's nice to see that most people understood it as well. If you're at all into mecha gaming I also write a column over at GameSetWatch called Roboto-chan, as well as maintaining a rather mecha centric YouTube channel featuring gameplay videos of lesser known mecha games (such as Gigantic Drive, as one person mentioned).

Axehilt:
I agree with Anoctris that the article probably goes a little overboard on Samurai/Mecha romanticism (which I say, even though I myself am a mecha fan :P )

Glorifying needlessly complicated control schemes is the true fault of the article though. Which is odd because Virtual On is mentioned without identifying why that series was so damn popular: it was simple to learn, but had deep gameplay. That's the holy grail of gaming!

Also Armored Core isn't quite what I'd consider "welcoming" to new players. Even as someone who wants to enjoy mecha games, I just couldn't get into the series for its awkward controls.

If more mecha games had Virtual On's combination of accessibility and depth, they'd be a lot more popular with the Western audience. Maybe not as popular as more realistic games (because western culture still scoffs at the inherent inefficiencies of giant, walking tanks) but quite a bit more popular than they currently are.

Virtual On wasn't accessible though (outside of Japan at least). It had a control scheme that looked like a tank but played very differently. It wasn't like Cyber Sled, where you were effectively controlling a futuristic tank, but instead based around fixed vectored dashes. The control scheme doesn't make that visually implicit at all.

The article isn't about glorifying complexity either but that affording the player a variety of input increases the scope of what they can achieve in-game. The problem with this approach is that it requires a level of cognitive determination on the part of the player and these days most people can't be bothered to learn anything new/different in terms of functional scope.

Ollie Barder:
I've been really enjoying people's responses to the article and it's nice to see that most people understood it as well. If you're at all into mecha gaming I also write a column over at GameSetWatch called Roboto-chan, as well as maintaining a rather mecha centric YouTube channel featuring gameplay videos of lesser known mecha games (such as Gigantic Drive, as one person mentioned).

Axehilt:
I agree with Anoctris that the article probably goes a little overboard on Samurai/Mecha romanticism (which I say, even though I myself am a mecha fan :P )

Glorifying needlessly complicated control schemes is the true fault of the article though. Which is odd because Virtual On is mentioned without identifying why that series was so damn popular: it was simple to learn, but had deep gameplay. That's the holy grail of gaming!

Also Armored Core isn't quite what I'd consider "welcoming" to new players. Even as someone who wants to enjoy mecha games, I just couldn't get into the series for its awkward controls.

If more mecha games had Virtual On's combination of accessibility and depth, they'd be a lot more popular with the Western audience. Maybe not as popular as more realistic games (because western culture still scoffs at the inherent inefficiencies of giant, walking tanks) but quite a bit more popular than they currently are.

Virtual On wasn't accessible though (outside of Japan at least). It had a control scheme that looked like a tank but played very differently. It wasn't like Cyber Sled, where you were effectively controlling a futuristic tank, but instead based around fixed vectored dashes. The control scheme doesn't make that visually implicit at all.

The article isn't about glorifying complexity either but that affording the player a variety of input increases the scope of what they can achieve in-game. The problem with this approach is that it requires a level of cognitive determination on the part of the player and these days most people can't be bothered to learn anything new/different in terms of functional scope.

I'm probably the biggest mecha nut on these forums, and it pleases me to no end to know the Virtual On cast are going to be in SRW K.

along with Dangaioh, Kotetsushin Jeeg, Gaiking: Legend of Daiku-Mariyu, Godannar (both seasons), GunXSword, Overman King Gainer, Mazinger Z, Fafner of the Azure, ZOIDS GENESIS!!! (For the uninformed, Tomy and Banpresto are rival companies, seeing a Tomy production in a Banpresto game opens up a WHOLE new can of worms)

And then everything from Gundams Cosmic Era NOT named Astray.

So ya know, every Gundam series included is made of fail. God even Judgment had G Gundam to offset!

As a bonus, the three PVs for SRW K, released 20th of March.



Onmi:

I'm probably the biggest mecha nut on these forums, and it pleases me to no end to know the Virtual On cast are going to be in SRW K.

along with Dangaioh, Kotetsushin Jeeg, Gaiking: Legend of Daiku-Mariyu, Godannar (both seasons), GunXSword, Overman King Gainer, Mazinger Z, Fafner of the Azure, ZOIDS GENESIS!!! (For the uninformed, Tomy and Banpresto are rival companies, seeing a Tomy production in a Banpresto game opens up a WHOLE new can of worms)

And then everything from Gundams Cosmic Era NOT named Astray.

So ya know, every Gundam series included is made of fail. God even Judgment had G Gundam to offset!

As a bonus, the three PVs for SRW K, released 20th of March.

I've got SRW K on pre-order but it doesn't look like much of a step up on W. I'm still loving SRW Z though, some very interesting strategy mechanics at work there.

Here are some SRW videos I've done over the years:




Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

I'm probably the biggest mecha nut on these forums, and it pleases me to no end to know the Virtual On cast are going to be in SRW K.

along with Dangaioh, Kotetsushin Jeeg, Gaiking: Legend of Daiku-Mariyu, Godannar (both seasons), GunXSword, Overman King Gainer, Mazinger Z, Fafner of the Azure, ZOIDS GENESIS!!! (For the uninformed, Tomy and Banpresto are rival companies, seeing a Tomy production in a Banpresto game opens up a WHOLE new can of worms)

And then everything from Gundams Cosmic Era NOT named Astray.

So ya know, every Gundam series included is made of fail. God even Judgment had G Gundam to offset!

As a bonus, the three PVs for SRW K, released 20th of March.

I've got SRW K on pre-order but it doesn't look like much of a step up on W. I'm still loving SRW Z though, some very interesting strategy mechanics at work there.

Here are some SRW videos I've done over the years:




My PS2 died in between SRWZ... Seriously total crap!

Anyway I got K pre-ordered to. Have you played the Alpha Gaiden Translation yet? and the SRWJ one is almost done. or well it IS done there just editing it.

Onmi:

My PS2 died in between SRWZ... Seriously total crap!

Anyway I got K pre-ordered to. Have you played the Alpha Gaiden Translation yet? and the SRWJ one is almost done. or well it IS done there just editing it.

I'm fine with playing SRW in Japanese, so I'm not overly fussed about translations. I think it's a good thing though obviously, as it means more people can get to play the games.

I need to capture the final boss on XO though, that was just silly hard!

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

My PS2 died in between SRWZ... Seriously total crap!

Anyway I got K pre-ordered to. Have you played the Alpha Gaiden Translation yet? and the SRWJ one is almost done. or well it IS done there just editing it.

I'm fine with playing SRW in Japanese, so I'm not overly fussed about translations. I think it's a good thing though obviously, as it means more people can get to play the games.

I need to capture the final boss on XO though, that was just silly hard!

Oh I have no trouble playing the games, it's the plots that are nice. I know Tyria (who's translating Alpha) wants to do the PS2 games, he just needs to convince Gid to do the hacking.

now games that NEED translation? Gihren's Ambition. crazy difficult even if I knew what was going on..

I just hope the plans for the PS3 one go through, why? Region-free. Love to not have to run around emulating/getting chips.

Onmi:

Oh I have no trouble playing the games, it's the plots that are nice. I know Tyria (who's translating Alpha) wants to do the PS2 games, he just needs to convince Gid to do the hacking.

now games that NEED translation? Gihren's Ambition. crazy difficult even if I knew what was going on..

I just hope the plans for the PS3 one go through, why? Region-free. Love to not have to run around emulating/getting chips.

I have a lot of the Gihren's Greed games and they're very interesting. The language barrier isn't for the faint of heart though (thankfully I'm okay on that front). It does also help a lot if you're familiar with the early UC narrative, as a lot of the narrative paths you can take are based around that. I think that's an interesting mechanic to have though; where knowledge of the game's narrative subject matter actually plays functional dividends.

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

Oh I have no trouble playing the games, it's the plots that are nice. I know Tyria (who's translating Alpha) wants to do the PS2 games, he just needs to convince Gid to do the hacking.

now games that NEED translation? Gihren's Ambition. crazy difficult even if I knew what was going on..

I just hope the plans for the PS3 one go through, why? Region-free. Love to not have to run around emulating/getting chips.

I have a lot of the Gihren's Greed games and they're very interesting. The language barrier isn't for the faint of heart though (thankfully I'm okay on that front). It does also help a lot if you're familiar with the early UC narrative, as a lot of the narrative paths you can take are based around that. I think that's an interesting mechanic to have though; where knowledge of the game's narrative subject matter actually plays functional dividends.

Problem with that is,it only lasts so far, if you're playing Zeon (which I don't, pure Federation muscle here) it only helps you up to the end of 0079, then your crap outta luck to many players have to much chaos and have Garma pop up at the last second to kick their asses.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Gihrens_Ambition/index.php?act=idx the Let's Play archive for the new Threat of Axis V game, everyone doing the LP's can be found their.

Also have you got the new one (Threat of Axis V) Tem Ray army,Playable Job John! (Who nobody in White base recognizes, haha in-joke)

Onmi:
Problem with that is,it only lasts so far, if you're playing Zeon (which I don't, pure Federation muscle here) it only helps you up to the end of 0079, then your crap outta luck to many players have to much chaos and have Garma pop up at the last second to kick their asses.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Gihrens_Ambition/index.php?act=idx the Let's Play archive for the new Threat of Axis V game, everyone doing the LP's can be found their.

Also have you got the new one (Threat of Axis V) Tem Ray army,Playable Job John! (Who nobody in White base recognizes, haha in-joke)

Not so much on the earlier games, as knowledge on the Zeta arc was also very helpful. Yeah, I have the new PSP game but even though I've utterly thrashed Macross Ace Frontier, that's still getting most of love at the moment (PSPwise at least).

Talking of SRW and Gihren's Greed, have you played the ACE games at all? They're developed by From Software and are very good indeed.






Ollie Barder:

Onmi:
Problem with that is,it only lasts so far, if you're playing Zeon (which I don't, pure Federation muscle here) it only helps you up to the end of 0079, then your crap outta luck to many players have to much chaos and have Garma pop up at the last second to kick their asses.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Gihrens_Ambition/index.php?act=idx the Let's Play archive for the new Threat of Axis V game, everyone doing the LP's can be found their.

Also have you got the new one (Threat of Axis V) Tem Ray army,Playable Job John! (Who nobody in White base recognizes, haha in-joke)

Not so much on the earlier games, as knowledge on the Zeta arc was also very helpful. Yeah, I have the new PSP game but even though I've utterly thrashed Macross Ace Frontier, that's still getting most of love at the moment (PSPwise at least).

Talking of SRW and Gihren's Greed, have you played the ACE games at all? They're developed by From Software and are very good indeed.

Late reply but YES of course I have played the A.C.E. games, From Software and Banpresto produce a game series you have to play it! By the way, have you seen Xabungle? Tomino's TRUE great show. a wild west 'after the end' setting with comedy and giant robots.

Onmi:

Late reply but YES of course I have played the A.C.E. games, From Software and Banpresto produce a game series you have to play it! By the way, have you seen Xabungle? Tomino's TRUE great show. a wild west 'after the end' setting with comedy and giant robots.

Yeah, I saw all of Xabungle whilst I was living in Japan. It's very good but not my favourite Tomino show. That would be Dunbine and the Wings of Rean.

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

Late reply but YES of course I have played the A.C.E. games, From Software and Banpresto produce a game series you have to play it! By the way, have you seen Xabungle? Tomino's TRUE great show. a wild west 'after the end' setting with comedy and giant robots.

Yeah, I saw all of Xabungle whilst I was living in Japan. It's very good but not my favourite Tomino show. That would be Dunbine and the Wings of Rean.

Tomino has two settings, the first kills everyone, the second ends the main character in a Harem (Few exceptions of course)
Personally I like Xabungle more because I prefer Comedy to Tragedy.

Also delicious nude Rag.

Onmi:

Tomino has two settings, the first kills everyone, the second ends the main character in a Harem (Few exceptions of course)
Personally I like Xabungle more because I prefer Comedy to Tragedy.

Also delicious nude Rag.

Rean isn't tragedy and neither is Dunbine (as technically they all return to Byston Well). Gundam on the other hand is very tragic but I still adore the original movies and TV series.

Kiutu:

CantFaketheFunk:
Man, the article kinda made me want to dig out Dynasty Warriors Gundam...

Which they did not even mention considering the picture they used.

The image of Katoki's Musha Gundam was used to illustrate an aesthetic point, not a functional one. As the Gundam Musou games aren't actually mecha games.

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

Tomino has two settings, the first kills everyone, the second ends the main character in a Harem (Few exceptions of course)
Personally I like Xabungle more because I prefer Comedy to Tragedy.

Also delicious nude Rag.

Rean isn't tragedy and neither is Dunbine (as technically they all return to Byston Well). Gundam on the other hand is very tragic but I still adore the original movies and TV series.

It had major character death, it was depressing, I mean the original Dunbine Wings of Rean has been made by Happy!Tomino.

I'm referring more to how this goes.

Zambot 3, Tragedy-> Daitarn 3,Comedy/Action Main character in a Harem with two hot women/
Ideon, Do I even NEED to say it?!-> Xabungle, Comedy/Action with the Implied Harem Ending for Jiron.
Zeta Gundam, Downer Ending-> Gundam ZZ, Comedy/Action that later became more serious. Judau had Elle, Roux, the Puru's, Chara and Haman all after him. In a happier setting he would have gone to Jupiter with his Harem.

I know now why I had one helluva hard time playing the DW:G demo :S

Aptspire:
I know now why I had one helluva hard time playing the DW:G demo :S

If DW:G was actually like the Anime then the beam rifle would be over powered as hell. it's just a musou game re-skinned. just like SRW is really just an SRPG skinned with robots.

Onmi:

If DW:G was actually like the Anime then the beam rifle would be over powered as hell. it's just a musou game re-skinned. just like SRW is really just an SRPG skinned with robots.

Yes to the first part, not so much to the second; as the mecha in SRW have had their ability set transferred to a turnbased strategy setting. It's still a functional allegory compared to something like Virtual On or Armored Core but not as overt as in Gundam Musou.

Personally, I don't mind the Musou games. They make mecha visually more accessible at the very least, which can only be a good thing in the long run. It also shows how much this genre of gaming has branched out in terms of popularity over the years.

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

If DW:G was actually like the Anime then the beam rifle would be over powered as hell. it's just a musou game re-skinned. just like SRW is really just an SRPG skinned with robots.

Yes to the first part, not so much to the second; as the mecha in SRW have had their ability set transferred to a turnbased strategy setting. It's still a functional allegory compared to something like Virtual On or Armored Core but not as overt as in Gundam Musou.

Personally, I don't mind the Musou games. They make mecha visually more accessible at the very least, which can only be a good thing in the long run. It also shows how much this genre of gaming has branched out in terms of popularity over the years.

Yeah it is nice to see.

Also to get some laughs and prove how much of a mecha nut I am, this is what I did for my Visual Design Assignment

image

Ollie Barder:

Onmi:

If DW:G was actually like the Anime then the beam rifle would be over powered as hell. it's just a musou game re-skinned. just like SRW is really just an SRPG skinned with robots.

Yes to the first part, not so much to the second; as the mecha in SRW have had their ability set transferred to a turnbased strategy setting. It's still a functional allegory compared to something like Virtual On or Armored Core but not as overt as in Gundam Musou.

Personally, I don't mind the Musou games. They make mecha visually more accessible at the very least, which can only be a good thing in the long run. It also shows how much this genre of gaming has branched out in terms of popularity over the years.

The fact they actually ported it to the US is what shows how popular it's gotten. This kind of game for Japan is par for the course.

I always say: "If you're not using the entire keyboard to play the game it's not a real mecha simulator."

sketchesofpayne:
I always say: "If you're not using the entire keyboard to play the game it's not a real mecha simulator."

That's stupid, some mecha are controlled by simply two controllers, a steering wheel with pedells and levers, the brain etc.

In fact there could be no perfect simulator for every mecha, seeing as even in Gundam the cockpit changes each generation or so, becoming more simplified.

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