Sony Responds to BBC Criticism

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Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Lord_Gremlin:
Paid by Microsoft. Lies inside (c).

Wow, a conspiracy theory and the wrong company tagline in one post. Yes, Microsoft pays off everybody. The BBC, Adam Sessler, and all the gaming publications.

Actually, the BBC is quite closely tied to MS, look up your facts before you respond. BBC's Digital Director Peter Mercier, just left to join MS, and the journalist who performed this 'stunt' (as coined by Sony), is none other than Ian Lee, who you may or may not remember for....this little piece:

http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7838134

The article that Watchdog aired is tainted by innacuracies, half-truths, and outright lies. The BBC being pivotal in it's creation, is tainted by their own in-house staff. It's been a pleasure taking you to school.

Except I don't remember him from that piece because, as said, I'm obviously a stupid American. A stupid American who finds it a bit odd that you're saying someone who left the BBC to work for Microsoft was paid to do so. That'd be like saying MobiTV was bankrolled by the BBC because Peter Mercier used to work for them before going to the BBC. In fact, this seems to sound like something...familiar. Oh right, it's every conspiracy blog on the planet, or more specifically, the "Boycott Novell" blog.

I guess Sony has never done anything like completely fabricate a member of the press to make sure their financial stakes are well guarded, cause I mean that'd be really hypocritical for someone to say in Sony's defense that the BBC Watchdog program was in reality a Mircosoft-backed hit squad that goes after things like insurance fraud and other things that have nothing to do with Microsoft.

Class is in session, and you are not the teacher.

Was

Mornelithe:

Charley:

hansari:
So the BBC is doing free console repairs now?

Where were they during the RROD fiasco!?

They had real news to cover that day.

Subzerowings:

Mornelithe:

The article is tainted by innacuracies, half-truths, and outright lies. The BBC being pivotal in it's creation, is tainted by their own in-house staff. It's been a pleasure taking you to school.

I expected this from CNN, NBC or NSMBC because I heard they're microsoft companies.

Hooray for the school of your-house. The BBC is, in theory impartial, on account of it not being allowed to take money off companies. The programme in question, Watchdog, goes after companies hard in the interests of the "average" UK consumer - who is an idiot.

By Watchdog's standards, the consumer is never wrong... even if they're complaining that they discovered that plugging the fridge into your dog means that your ice cream will melt, they'll still hound the company for an episode. The target market is disgruntled, dim consumers.

The BBC is regulated to the nines, being as it's a publicly-owned company. Someone leaving them to work for MS means just shy of nothing - I left a nightclub to work for a multinational, that doesn't mean they're funding illicit nightclub deals. Ian Lee, importantly, is a tool.

Going to school was fun - I prefered college :)

*yawn* Did you learn anything at college? Or were you just there drinking? From the actual intellectual UK residents I've heard from regarding this, they all seem pretty pissed off that their paying license fee's for these people to pull bullshit stunts like this. Regardless, BBC bankrolled it, and neglected to actually check for accuracy. It makes them culpable...which, you'll find out as soon as Sony bends these guys over in court. And they'll win too. The Sony man from the UK, pretty much spelled out every single inaccuracy and foible that show had, prior to the shows launch, and they still backed the report. Their fault. And thusly, they'll take most of the hit when it hits the courts.

And by the way, don't act like the BBC is some holy grail of journalistic integrity. Or have you forgotten it's recent problems with faulty reporting?

I seriously doubt this will go to court or anyone will pay any attention, it was one small bit of news and even if it did I'd bet quite heavily that the BBC would win, seems like the PS3 has had some failures and sony has not repaired them for free despite it being their fault, sure it seems it may have been exaggerated by one microsoft fanboy but it seems a bit dodgdy that many broke after just going out of warranty. If its such a small section of their userbase then it shouldn't cost sony much to repair the consoles in the first place should it.

Also I'd say the BBC is the most trustworthy news source you can find anywhere (I'd like to see you show me a more reliable one), they even gave sony a fair say and showed both sides of the argument rather then distorting it like many other news station would have done.

bad rider:

Mornelithe:

Charley:

hansari:
So the BBC is doing free console repairs now?

Where were they during the RROD fiasco!?

They had real news to cover that day.

Subzerowings:

Mornelithe:

The article is tainted by innacuracies, half-truths, and outright lies. The BBC being pivotal in it's creation, is tainted by their own in-house staff. It's been a pleasure taking you to school.

I expected this from CNN, NBC or NSMBC because I heard they're microsoft companies.

Hooray for the school of your-house. The BBC is, in theory impartial, on account of it not being allowed to take money off companies. The programme in question, Watchdog, goes after companies hard in the interests of the "average" UK consumer - who is an idiot.

By Watchdog's standards, the consumer is never wrong... even if they're complaining that they discovered that plugging the fridge into your dog means that your ice cream will melt, they'll still hound the company for an episode. The target market is disgruntled, dim consumers.

The BBC is regulated to the nines, being as it's a publicly-owned company. Someone leaving them to work for MS means just shy of nothing - I left a nightclub to work for a multinational, that doesn't mean they're funding illicit nightclub deals. Ian Lee, importantly, is a tool.

Going to school was fun - I prefered college :)

From the actual intellectual UK residents I've heard from regarding this, they all seem pretty pissed off that their paying license fee's for these people to pull bullshit stunts like this. Regardless, BBC bankrolled it, and neglected to actually check for accuracy. It makes them culpable...which, you'll find out as soon as Sony bends these guys over in court. And they'll win too. The Sony man from the UK, pretty much spelled out every single inaccuracy and foible that show had, prior to the shows launch, and they still backed the report. Their fault. And thusly, they'll take most of the hit when it hits the courts.

And by the way, don't act like the BBC is some holy grail of journalistic integrity. Or have you forgotten it's recent problems with faulty reporting?

From the article (Sorry I didn't see the program) It seems fair that considering Sony sold a fulty product and charged to repair it they were clearly in the wrong.

12,500 consoles failing, not all of which were the result of YLOD (Hence the less than half a percent that Sony was quoted as saying), out of 2.5 million consoles sold. Is actually...surprise! within industry standards. The 'article' and 'show' neglected to inform viewers that anything that failed w/in the year (or 2 year extended available at the time of purchase) warranties, would be replaced/fixed, free of charge. Beyond that, outside of warranty, is outside of warranty. Sorry, but that's just how it works. If you wish to change the industry standard, by all means, go ahead and give it a go. But, holding ONLY Sony accountable for this mainstream standard in electronics, is simply stupid, and would be laughed out of court.

Go back and read the letter from Sony to the BBC, they specifically state that 12,500 units have failed. Not, 12,500 units have had YLOD. There's a huge difference.

AceDiamond:

Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Lord_Gremlin:
Paid by Microsoft. Lies inside (c).

Wow, a conspiracy theory and the wrong company tagline in one post. Yes, Microsoft pays off everybody. The BBC, Adam Sessler, and all the gaming publications.

Actually, the BBC is quite closely tied to MS, look up your facts before you respond. BBC's Digital Director Peter Mercier, just left to join MS, and the journalist who performed this 'stunt' (as coined by Sony), is none other than Ian Lee, who you may or may not remember for....this little piece:

http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7838134

The article that Watchdog aired is tainted by innacuracies, half-truths, and outright lies. The BBC being pivotal in it's creation, is tainted by their own in-house staff. It's been a pleasure taking you to school.

Except I don't remember him from that piece because, as said, I'm obviously a stupid American. A stupid American who finds it a bit odd that you're saying someone who left the BBC to work for Microsoft was paid to do so. That'd be like saying MobiTV was bankrolled by the BBC because Peter Mercier used to work for them before going to the BBC. In fact, this seems to sound like something...familiar. Oh right, it's every conspiracy blog on the planet, or more specifically, the "Boycott Novell" blog.

I guess Sony has never done anything like completely fabricate a member of the press to make sure their financial stakes are well guarded, cause I mean that'd be really hypocritical for someone to say in Sony's defense that the BBC Watchdog program was in reality a Mircosoft-backed hit squad that goes after things like insurance fraud and other things that have nothing to do with Microsoft.

Class is in session, and you are not the teacher.

If I'm not the teacher, then neither of us are going to learn anything. I never said MS paid anything, I never said anything of the sort. Go back and look. I merely said, MS has close ties with the BBC. Which, in and of itself, raises eyebrows. The man doing the piece should have had no...that's zero....previous bias towards any hardware. It's you know, what they call actual journalism.

The fact that the BBC has such close ties with MS, meant they should've handled this situation more carefully. That's what I'm saying. They didn't, and they aired a piece that was completely rife with falty information. By all means, go ahead and disagree, but I've read Sony's complete response, and I've seen the entire Watchdog episode. These aren't assumptions, I'm going by the facts that are presented to us. You're simply listening to one or two sentences you like and running with it. Hey, you should work for the BBC!

By the way, even though it is quite odd what was done regarding that piece you linked...how exactly is that impacting any other company financially...seriously? Were there allot of movies coming out that 'A Knights Tale' was competition for? *LOL* I Realize Brits love Knights and Chivalry and such, but really...that movie sucked. They got busted though, the same as the BBC's pretty much going through as we speak.

Class Over.

Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Lord_Gremlin:
Paid by Microsoft. Lies inside (c).

Wow, a conspiracy theory and the wrong company tagline in one post. Yes, Microsoft pays off everybody. The BBC, Adam Sessler, and all the gaming publications.

Actually, the BBC is quite closely tied to MS, look up your facts before you respond. BBC's Digital Director Peter Mercier, just left to join MS, and the journalist who performed this 'stunt' (as coined by Sony), is none other than Ian Lee, who you may or may not remember for....this little piece:

http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7838134

The article that Watchdog aired is tainted by innacuracies, half-truths, and outright lies. The BBC being pivotal in it's creation, is tainted by their own in-house staff. It's been a pleasure taking you to school.

Except I don't remember him from that piece because, as said, I'm obviously a stupid American. A stupid American who finds it a bit odd that you're saying someone who left the BBC to work for Microsoft was paid to do so. That'd be like saying MobiTV was bankrolled by the BBC because Peter Mercier used to work for them before going to the BBC. In fact, this seems to sound like something...familiar. Oh right, it's every conspiracy blog on the planet, or more specifically, the "Boycott Novell" blog.

I guess Sony has never done anything like completely fabricate a member of the press to make sure their financial stakes are well guarded, cause I mean that'd be really hypocritical for someone to say in Sony's defense that the BBC Watchdog program was in reality a Mircosoft-backed hit squad that goes after things like insurance fraud and other things that have nothing to do with Microsoft.

Class is in session, and you are not the teacher.

If I'm not the teacher, then neither of us are going to learn anything. I never said MS paid anything, I never said anything of the sort. Go back and look. I merely said, MS has close ties with the BBC. Which, in and of itself, raises eyebrows. The man doing the piece should have had no...that's zero....previous bias towards any hardware. It's you know, what they call actual journalism.

The fact that the BBC has such close ties with MS, meant they should've handled this situation more carefully. That's what I'm saying. They didn't, and they aired a piece that was completely rife with falty information. By all means, go ahead and disagree, but I've read Sony's complete response, and I've seen the entire Watchdog episode. These aren't assumptions, I'm going by the facts that are presented to us. You're simply listening to one or two sentences you like and running with it. Hey, you should work for the BBC!

By the way, even though it is quite odd what was done regarding that piece you linked...how exactly is that impacting any other company financially...seriously? Were there allot of movies coming out that 'A Knights Tale' was competition for? *LOL* I Realize Brits love Knights and Chivalry and such, but really...that movie sucked. They got busted though, the same as the BBC's pretty much going through as we speak.

Class Over.

Yeah except for the fact that you seem to have missed the point of the program in the first place, which was to point out corporate wrongdoing. Having unethical tech support (and I can provide stories) would certainly raise a flag. But of course you aren't listening. I already said I couldn't make a judgement on whether or not this was even a big deal. Hell it's the first damn response on this page. And yet you decided to defend someone for saying "oh this was done by Microsoft hurr hurr". What was even the point of that? So yes, some people have worked for the BBC and Microsoft. Some people have worked for Nintendo and Microsoft at different points in their careers that doesn't make it suspicious.

And my point was that you cannot call out a company for creating fake news, or at the very least grossly misrepresent the facts, when the company you are defending has and will continue to do the same thing.

You know I've really tried to stop coming down on Sony so hard but then I'm reminded of the fanbase that brings me to do it. So I'm done with this. I am backing away because I no longer care. This is pointless to argue when the argument shouldn't even exist.

AceDiamond:

Yeah except for the fact that you seem to have missed the point of the program in the first place, which was to point out corporate wrongdoing. Having unethical tech support (and I can provide stories) would certainly raise a flag. But of course you aren't listening. I already said I couldn't make a judgement on whether or not this was even a big deal. And yet you decided to defend someone for saying "oh this was done by Microsoft hurr hurr". What was even the point of that? So yes, some people have worked for the BBC and Microsoft. Some people have worked for Nintendo and Microsoft at different points in their careers that doesn't make it suspicious.

And my point was that you cannot call out a company for creating fake news when the company you are defending has and will continue to do the same thing.

It's a good thing I'm not paying tuition for this class, because frankly your curriculum sucks.

What kind of stories? Like when my PS3 got broken by a roommate, I had to have it replaced, and it took 11 days for them to get it back to me from the time I gave them the money? That's including them shipping me an overnight delivery box? Hmm? Are those the stories you're referring to...? Because you know, it occurs to me, that at the time of purchase, I was asked whether I wanted a 1 or 3 year warranty. I elected for the 1, but it wouldn't have matter, because it was already past the 3rd year when my PS3 got broken.

If the target was their Customer Service, then having a Sony Repair van, and focusing on YLOD, was pretty much going off topic, wasn't it? As, most PS3's that have failed, failed due to other issues. I'd imagine you'd start with actually...calling Sony customer service and speaking directly with them....right? Oh, guess they must've 'forgotten' that piece.

The curriculum is completely fine and valid, don't hold it to blame if you can't follow along with the adults.

Mornelithe:

bad rider:
[From the article (Sorry I didn't see the program) It seems fair that considering Sony sold a fulty product and charged to repair it they were clearly in the wrong.

12,500 consoles failing, not all of which were the result of YLOD (Hence the less than half a percent that Sony was quoted as saying), out of 2.5 million consoles sold. Is actually...surprise! within industry standards. The 'article' and 'show' neglected to inform viewers that anything that failed w/in the year (or 2 year extended available at the time of purchase) warranties, would be replaced/fixed, free of charge. Beyond that, outside of warranty, is outside of warranty. Sorry, but that's just how it works. If you wish to change the industry standard, by all means, go ahead and give it a go. But, holding ONLY Sony accountable for this mainstream standard in electronics, is simply stupid, and would be laughed out of court.

Go back and read the letter from Sony to the BBC, they specifically state that 12,500 units have failed. Not, 12,500 units have had YLOD. There's a huge difference.

Firstly: Don't you think your bieng overly aggresive with your writing?
Secondly: No offence but unless I'm missing something, there is no indication of a free under warranty repair. It's isn't mentioned by the bbc/sony, this indicates to me that this is why they are investigating. However, as you have mentioned there is such evidence which would contradict that point if you could post a source for me to read I would be better enlightened as to the situation.

Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Yeah except for the fact that you seem to have missed the point of the program in the first place, which was to point out corporate wrongdoing. Having unethical tech support (and I can provide stories) would certainly raise a flag. But of course you aren't listening. I already said I couldn't make a judgement on whether or not this was even a big deal. And yet you decided to defend someone for saying "oh this was done by Microsoft hurr hurr". What was even the point of that? So yes, some people have worked for the BBC and Microsoft. Some people have worked for Nintendo and Microsoft at different points in their careers that doesn't make it suspicious.

And my point was that you cannot call out a company for creating fake news when the company you are defending has and will continue to do the same thing.

It's a good thing I'm not paying tuition for this class, because frankly your curriculum sucks.

What kind of stories? Like when my PS3 got broken by a roommate, I had to have it replaced, and it took 11 days for them to get it back to me from the time I gave them the money? That's including them shipping me an overnight delivery box? Hmm? Are those the stories you're referring to...? Because you know, it occurs to me, that at the time of purchase, I was asked whether I wanted a 1 or 3 year warranty. I elected for the 1, but it wouldn't have matter, because it was already past the 3rd year when my PS3 got broken.

If the target was their Customer Service, then having a Sony Repair van, and focusing on YLOD, was pretty much going off topic, wasn't it? As, most PS3's that have failed, failed due to other issues. I'd imagine you'd start with actually...calling Sony customer service and speaking directly with them....right? Oh, guess they must've 'forgotten' that piece.

The curriculum is completely fine and valid, don't hold it to blame if you can't follow along with the adults.

Ok fine, keep calling me out after I've already tried to bow out of this. I'm not going to compare this to the service I got from Microsoft which sounds suspiciously the same (except I had no warranty at all and still got the free repair), but I am going to tell you the story of how my friend's Sony Viao was sent in for tech support, was then broken by tech support, so they made up a bullshit story about water damage and sent it back to her, broken, and with a bill for the shipping and repairs they never even did.

And don't say "oh that's one incident" because I've heard similar things from others. And don't say "but that's computers" because it's still Sony.

I never even said "oh all of Sony's tech support was clearly in the wrong". Here's what I said way back at the start of this thread.

AceDiamond:
Well they are right about one thing, 155 or even 12,500 people is not a very large portion of a 2.5 million user install base. As to the rest I don't know a lot of the details (since I'm an American) and thus can't really form a judgement.

Now what did I form a judgement on? A statement made by someone that clearly sounded like fanboyism at its finest and an attempt to make a bad joke . Which you took as some sort of need to spark a serious debate about how the BBC is in league with Microsoft. And yes that was your implication, what else were you going for? It was a sarcastic response to a comment that we have heard time and time again from unsatisfied people who cannot go 5 minutes without blaming Microsoft for something. The worst of this is is again, I'm not trying to be against Sony in this case, but I am quite against the kind of people that seem to be fans of them. I mean hell, you're claiming Sony should sue them when their UK Boss has already defused the situation quite handily, using mathematical figures.

And like I said, I'm done with this. So just stop patronizing me, calm down, and stop. It's not making either of us look good.

bad rider:

Mornelithe:

bad rider:
[From the article (Sorry I didn't see the program) It seems fair that considering Sony sold a fulty product and charged to repair it they were clearly in the wrong.

12,500 consoles failing, not all of which were the result of YLOD (Hence the less than half a percent that Sony was quoted as saying), out of 2.5 million consoles sold. Is actually...surprise! within industry standards. The 'article' and 'show' neglected to inform viewers that anything that failed w/in the year (or 2 year extended available at the time of purchase) warranties, would be replaced/fixed, free of charge. Beyond that, outside of warranty, is outside of warranty. Sorry, but that's just how it works. If you wish to change the industry standard, by all means, go ahead and give it a go. But, holding ONLY Sony accountable for this mainstream standard in electronics, is simply stupid, and would be laughed out of court.

Go back and read the letter from Sony to the BBC, they specifically state that 12,500 units have failed. Not, 12,500 units have had YLOD. There's a huge difference.

Firstly: Don't you think your bieng overly aggresive with your writing?
Secondly: No offence but unless I'm missing something, there is no indication of a free under warranty repair. It's isn't mentioned by the bbc/sony, this indicates to me that this is why they are investigating. However, as you have mentioned there is such evidence which would contradict that point if you could post a source for me to read I would be better enlightened as to the situation.

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SOME STATES OR PROVINCES DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATION ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY LASTS AND SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATIONS OF CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state or from province to province. This warranty is valid only in the United States and Canada.

LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SCE PUBLISHED SOFTWARE
Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) warrants to the original purchaser of this SCEA product that this software is free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of purchase. SCEA agrees for a period of ninety (90) days to either repair or replace, at its option, the SCEA product. See our How to Obtain Service information or call 1-800-345-SONY to receive instructions to obtain repair/replacement services.

This warranty shall not be applicable and shall be void if the defect in the SCEA product has arisen through abuse, unreasonable use, mistreatment or neglect. THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, AND NO OTHER REPRESENTATIONS OR CLAIMS OF ANY NATURE SHALL BE BINDING ON OR OBLIGATE SCEA. ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES APPLICABLE TO THIS SOFTWARE PRODUCT, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE LIMITED TO THE NINETY (90) DAY PERIOD DESCRIBED ABOVE. IN NO EVENT WILL SCEA BE LIABLE FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RESULTING FROM POSSESSION, USE OR MALFUNCTION OF THE SCEA SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

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Source: http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Warranties/PS3

(The same place I went, when I had to replace mine)

Though I have a feeling there's more than 0.2 % of errored PS3's, the rest does seem plausible.

But meh. The YLOD is nothing compared to the RROD, the E74 error, the disk read error, etc. So I can live with it.

AceDiamond:

Mornelithe:

AceDiamond:

Yeah except for the fact that you seem to have missed the point of the program in the first place, which was to point out corporate wrongdoing. Having unethical tech support (and I can provide stories) would certainly raise a flag. But of course you aren't listening. I already said I couldn't make a judgement on whether or not this was even a big deal. And yet you decided to defend someone for saying "oh this was done by Microsoft hurr hurr". What was even the point of that? So yes, some people have worked for the BBC and Microsoft. Some people have worked for Nintendo and Microsoft at different points in their careers that doesn't make it suspicious.

And my point was that you cannot call out a company for creating fake news when the company you are defending has and will continue to do the same thing.

It's a good thing I'm not paying tuition for this class, because frankly your curriculum sucks.

What kind of stories? Like when my PS3 got broken by a roommate, I had to have it replaced, and it took 11 days for them to get it back to me from the time I gave them the money? That's including them shipping me an overnight delivery box? Hmm? Are those the stories you're referring to...? Because you know, it occurs to me, that at the time of purchase, I was asked whether I wanted a 1 or 3 year warranty. I elected for the 1, but it wouldn't have matter, because it was already past the 3rd year when my PS3 got broken.

If the target was their Customer Service, then having a Sony Repair van, and focusing on YLOD, was pretty much going off topic, wasn't it? As, most PS3's that have failed, failed due to other issues. I'd imagine you'd start with actually...calling Sony customer service and speaking directly with them....right? Oh, guess they must've 'forgotten' that piece.

The curriculum is completely fine and valid, don't hold it to blame if you can't follow along with the adults.

Ok fine, keep calling me out after I've already tried to bow out of this. I'm not going to compare this to the service I got from Microsoft which sounds suspiciously the same (except I had no warranty at all and still got the free repair), but I am going to tell you the story of how my friend's Sony Viao was sent in for tech support, was then broken by tech support, so they made up a bullshit story about water damage and sent it back to her, broken, and with a bill for the shipping and repairs they never even did.

And don't say "oh that's one incident" because I've heard similar things from others. And don't say "but that's computers" because it's still Sony.

I never even said "oh all of Sony's tech support was clearly in the wrong". Here's what I said way back at the start of this thread.

AceDiamond:
Well they are right about one thing, 155 or even 12,500 people is not a very large portion of a 2.5 million user install base. As to the rest I don't know a lot of the details (since I'm an American) and thus can't really form a judgement.

Now what did I form a judgement on? A statement made by someone that clearly sounded like fanboyism at its finest and an attempt to make a bad joke . Which you took as some sort of need to spark a serious debate about how the BBC is in league with Microsoft. And yes that was your implication, what else were you going for? It was a sarcastic response to a comment that we have heard time and time again from unsatisfied people who cannot go 5 minutes without blaming Microsoft for something. The worst of this is is again, I'm not trying to be against Sony in this case, but I am quite against the kind of people that seem to be fans of them. I mean hell, you're claiming Sony should sue them when their UK Boss has already defused the situation quite handily, using mathematical figures.

And like I said, I'm done with this. So just stop patronizing me, calm down, and stop. It's not making either of us look good.

I actually do think Sony should sue them. Point in fact...Sony was sued for the Knights Tale issue, and they paid $1.85 million for it. The BBC, should be subject to the same rules that Sony was.

As for your friend, that sucks, and really the only thing I can suggest to anyone...before returning anything is really making sure the issue is documented and having as much supporting detail in your favor as possible, in case such a thing occurs. It's too bad that such situations happen. But, in my experience, WITH Sony, I've never had a problem with their Customer Service, or return policy.

The BBC, knew of this journalists connection to Microsoft, and elected to go ahead and air the story, on their network. They already have people from high up crossing over, left and right, and this does cause some concern in the realm of bias. Say it doesn't, if you so desire, but for me...having worked with a company for 8 years, I know you don't just 'cut' all ties as soon as you leave a place of business you have a history with. There's naturally some connections still inside. Is it a conspiracy? Who knows. But, the pieces are all in place for it to have been one. That's the point I was making, and as such, the BBC should've done more to make this a piece that wasn't so questionable, and written by someone with a shady history, to say the least.

Mornelithe:

bad rider:

Mornelithe:

12,500 consoles failing, not all of which were the result of YLOD (Hence the less than half a percent that Sony was quoted as saying), out of 2.5 million consoles sold. Is actually...surprise! within industry standards. The 'article' and 'show' neglected to inform viewers that anything that failed w/in the year (or 2 year extended available at the time of purchase) warranties, would be replaced/fixed, free of charge. Beyond that, outside of warranty, is outside of warranty. Sorry, but that's just how it works. If you wish to change the industry standard, by all means, go ahead and give it a go. But, holding ONLY Sony accountable for this mainstream standard in electronics, is simply stupid, and would be laughed out of court.

Go back and read the letter from Sony to the BBC, they specifically state that 12,500 units have failed. Not, 12,500 units have had YLOD. There's a huge difference.

Firstly: Don't you think your bieng overly aggresive with your writing?
Secondly: No offence but unless I'm missing something, there is no indication of a free under warranty repair. It's isn't mentioned by the bbc/sony, this indicates to me that this is why they are investigating. However, as you have mentioned there is such evidence which would contradict that point if you could post a source for me to read I would be better enlightened as to the situation.

Source: http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Warranties/PS3

(The same place I went, when I had to replace mine)

Okay given this, why are people complaining to the watchdog. Something has clearly happend here or complaints would not have been made. Just because a piece of text exists there is no clear indication as to whether it has been adhered to. Thus the watchdog may have became involved.

Edit- also this is in the UK, so this specific legal notice may not apply outside of the united states, as could be the case considering they will be two different branches of the Sony corporations Playstation branch. This is also indicated by the use of the term Scea Sony Computer Entertainment America

hmm, doesn't sound like that big of a deal, 0.5%? i bet more people destroyed their ps3 by washing it in the lake.

kinda on topic, apparently i may have to get down of my big elite pc horse to ride around on the sony mule, got 7 play station games today, apparently my family don't know that pc means personal computer and instead thought i misspelled ps.

but ill try to change the games before i gitty up on the mule of console fanboyism

bad rider:

Okay given this, why are people complaining to the watchdog. Something has clearly happend here or complaints would not have been made. Just because a piece of text exists there is no clear indication as to whether it has been adhered to. Thus the watchdog may have became involved.

That's precisely the question, isn't it? See, I didn't have my warranty information handy when my PS3 busted, so I went to that site. Called the number, and we literally got it all squared away right then and there over the phone. 2 days later, the Pre-paid Overnight Delivery package arrived, 9 days later, I received a new PS3 (Model# CECHA01) in the mail. So, the problem is, with the man who wrote this article/did the research piece, being as closely associated to MS as he is (and he really is folks...look up the stuff he writes..), some could easily say, wow conspiracy. On the other hand, having worked in Customer Service before, I can tell you, everyone has their bad days and maybe someone wasn't in a great mood that day. Or, as can also be the case, the person with said broken item, was in the midst of freaking out, and wasn't speaking as calmly...and nicely as they should've. When you're paid to be a CS rep, you're not paid to listen to people swear, and vent frustrations at you. You're paid to help them. If they're not calm enough to allow you to help them. Well, I've hung up on people who've sworn profusely or been overly aggressive to my staff. Quite simply telling them to 'call back when they're better able to address the situation'.

Mornelithe:

bad rider:

Okay given this, why are people complaining to the watchdog. Something has clearly happend here or complaints would not have been made. Just because a piece of text exists there is no clear indication as to whether it has been adhered to. Thus the watchdog may have became involved.

That's precisely the question, isn't it? See, I didn't have my warranty information handy when my PS3 busted, so I went to that site. Called the number, and we literally got it all squared away right then and there over the phone. 2 days later, the Pre-paid Overnight Delivery package arrived, 9 days later, I received a new PS3 (Model# CECHA01) in the mail. So, the problem is, with the man who wrote this article/did the research piece, being as closely associated to MS as he is (and he really is folks...look up the stuff he writes..), some could easily say, wow conspiracy. On the other hand, having worked in Customer Service before, I can tell you, everyone has their bad days and maybe someone wasn't in a great mood that day. Or, as can also be the case, the person with said broken item, was in the midst of freaking out, and wasn't speaking as calmly...and nicely as they should've. When you're paid to be a CS rep, you're not paid to listen to people swear, and vent frustrations at you. You're paid to help them. If they're not calm enough to allow you to help them. Well, I've hung up on people who've sworn profusely or been overly aggressive to my staff. Quite simply telling them to 'call back when they're better able to address the situation'.

Erm I'm currently working at a customer services support line so while I understand customers complain, the watchdog is usually the last stop at the end of serveral complaints. I don't think people would complain to them quite so freely, but thats speculation on my part. Anyway, the watchdog only responds once a certain number of people complaints So there is a strong inclination to believe that this was a case worthy of a look see. Also If I wanted someone to report on the case I would pick someone who was likely to know alot about the field eg someone with ties to a software firm. I don't know if it was impartial, but I woould have thought since the johnathan ross incident the editorial staff would sharper.

Note, in case you missed my edit: this is in the UK, so this specific legal notice may not apply outside of the united states, as could be the case considering they will be two different branches of the Sony corporations Playstation branch. This is also indicated by the use of the term Scea Sony Computer Entertainment America

Mornelithe:
Snip

Personally I think your just paranoid, and your posts defending Sony are getting extremely aggressive ,calm down, it's just a console, I don't complain when people criticize the 360 for it's short life span. Anyway Watchdog are pretty much like trading standards if a customer complains and they think that customer is being treated unfairly they will look into it and report it. Now the PS3 as far as I'm aware as a low failure rate but still if they are forcing you to pay for repairs on a fault in a product that was out of the hands of the customer, even if it's only 1200 compared to millions, it is still needs reporting, even if its the minority it's still treating the customer unfairly. Watchdog often reports any such dealings that are similar to this and often well beyond it, not because of Microsoft but because it's there just to do so.

poncho14:
The yellow light of death, seriously? Could they not think up of something that not similar to RROD.

Seems like the BBC hadn't done their research right.

"Something Ring of Death on a console...Hmm."

*Quick search of first internet forum to come to mind*

"Well, the first post I found was a Sony one about a yellow light, THEREFORE, it must be Sony's Yellow Ring of Death.... who wants coffe?"

bad rider:

Mornelithe:

bad rider:

Okay given this, why are people complaining to the watchdog. Something has clearly happend here or complaints would not have been made. Just because a piece of text exists there is no clear indication as to whether it has been adhered to. Thus the watchdog may have became involved.

That's precisely the question, isn't it? See, I didn't have my warranty information handy when my PS3 busted, so I went to that site. Called the number, and we literally got it all squared away right then and there over the phone. 2 days later, the Pre-paid Overnight Delivery package arrived, 9 days later, I received a new PS3 (Model# CECHA01) in the mail. So, the problem is, with the man who wrote this article/did the research piece, being as closely associated to MS as he is (and he really is folks...look up the stuff he writes..), some could easily say, wow conspiracy. On the other hand, having worked in Customer Service before, I can tell you, everyone has their bad days and maybe someone wasn't in a great mood that day. Or, as can also be the case, the person with said broken item, was in the midst of freaking out, and wasn't speaking as calmly...and nicely as they should've. When you're paid to be a CS rep, you're not paid to listen to people swear, and vent frustrations at you. You're paid to help them. If they're not calm enough to allow you to help them. Well, I've hung up on people who've sworn profusely or been overly aggressive to my staff. Quite simply telling them to 'call back when they're better able to address the situation'.

Erm I'm currently working at a customer services support line so while I understand customers complain, the watchdog is usually the last stop at the end of serveral complaints. I don't think people would complain to them quite so freely, but thats speculation on my part. Anyway, the watchdog only responds once a certain number of people complaints So there is a strong inclination to believe that this was a case worthy of a look see. Also If I wanted someone to report on the case I would pick someone who was likely to know alot about the field eg someone with ties to a software firm. I don't know if it was impartial, but I woould have thought since the johnathan ross incident the editorial staff would sharper.

Note, in case you missed my edit: this is in the UK, so this specific legal notice may not apply outside of the united states, as could be the case considering they will be two different branches of the Sony corporations Playstation branch. This is also indicated by the use of the term Scea Sony Computer Entertainment America

I saw your edit, I just don't feel like deleting my cookies at getting onto SCEUK to get a copy of their Warranty information. You should be able to however.

BBC made a bad call with airing this, and they're gonna pay for it. Deservedly so.

Mornelithe:

bad rider:
Erm I'm currently working at a customer services support line so while I understand customers complain, the watchdog is usually the last stop at the end of serveral complaints. I don't think people would complain to them quite so freely, but thats speculation on my part. Anyway, the watchdog only responds once a certain number of people complaints So there is a strong inclination to believe that this was a case worthy of a look see. Also If I wanted someone to report on the case I would pick someone who was likely to know alot about the field eg someone with ties to a software firm. I don't know if it was impartial, but I woould have thought since the johnathan ross incident the editorial staff would sharper.

Note, in case you missed my edit: this is in the UK, so this specific legal notice may not apply outside of the united states, as could be the case considering they will be two different branches of the Sony corporations Playstation branch. This is also indicated by the use of the term Scea Sony Computer Entertainment America

I saw your edit, I just don't feel like deleting my cookies at getting onto SCEUK to get a copy of their Warranty information. You should be able to however.

BBC made a bad call with airing this, and they're gonna pay for it. Deservedly so.

What makes you say that, they criticized a buisness for what could be a legitimate matter. It's good to see the publics money going into a corporation thats not afraid to take on big companys. Makes me figure renewing my tv license is worth it.

Sovvolf:

Mornelithe:
Snip

Personally I think your just paranoid, and your posts defending Sony are getting extremely aggressive ,calm down, it's just a console, I don't complain when people criticize the 360 for it's short life span. Anyway Watchdog are pretty much like trading standards if a customer complains and they think that customer is being treated unfairly they will look into it and report it. Now the PS3 as far as I'm aware as a low failure rate but still if they are forcing you to pay for repairs on a fault in a product that was out of the hands of the customer, even if it's only 1200 compared to millions, it is still needs reporting, even if its the minority it's still treating the customer unfairly. Watchdog often reports any such dealings that are similar to this and often well beyond it, not because of Microsoft but because it's there just to do so.

I fail to see how the customer was treated fairly in their show either. Not even 70% of the PS3's 'fixed' by their experts, actually worked after the fixing. Electronics fail, all the time. And when they fail w/in warranty, every company honors them, provided you haven't voided the warranty by attempting to fix it yourself, or in the extremely rare cases (I say this, because eventually, such a thing would result in massive lawsuits against whichever company is at fault...not to start anything) as AceDiamond stated, some fault of the service team inside the company that the item is being returned to.

If the issue was their customer service, the focus should not have been one fault. If their ace team was so great at repairing the supposed 'YLOD', 100% of the models fixed, should've worked properly. If the journalists had any kind of interest in actually getting facts, they would've identified the 'gas' inside the PS3, seen when they x-rayed it. And figured out why it's there, and why it isn't constantly escaping from said PS3 (as the PS3 isn't airtight). They left so many bits of detail out, that are actually pretty important, that it merely smacks of throwing bad publicity towards Sony, halphazardly. Call me paranoid, call me a conspiracy theorist, but seriously, what kind of journalism is that? The reason it bothers me so much, is a company like the BBC, SHOULD know better. I was brought up to trust the BBC as a reliable news source, and to be honest, I listen to the World News constantly, via NPR (The only station I listen to). This kind of crap, is just ludicrous. And it's sad that the BBC has fallen so much in recent years. But, I'll certainly be happy when they get smacked with a suit, by Sony.

bad rider:

Mornelithe:

bad rider:
Erm I'm currently working at a customer services support line so while I understand customers complain, the watchdog is usually the last stop at the end of serveral complaints. I don't think people would complain to them quite so freely, but thats speculation on my part. Anyway, the watchdog only responds once a certain number of people complaints So there is a strong inclination to believe that this was a case worthy of a look see. Also If I wanted someone to report on the case I would pick someone who was likely to know alot about the field eg someone with ties to a software firm. I don't know if it was impartial, but I woould have thought since the johnathan ross incident the editorial staff would sharper.

Note, in case you missed my edit: this is in the UK, so this specific legal notice may not apply outside of the united states, as could be the case considering they will be two different branches of the Sony corporations Playstation branch. This is also indicated by the use of the term Scea Sony Computer Entertainment America

I saw your edit, I just don't feel like deleting my cookies at getting onto SCEUK to get a copy of their Warranty information. You should be able to however.

BBC made a bad call with airing this, and they're gonna pay for it. Deservedly so.

What makes you say that, they criticized a buisness for what could be a legitimate matter. It's good to see the publics money going into a corporation thats not afraid to take on big companys. Makes me figure renewing my tv license is worth it.

*Sigh* If you haven't listened to the broadcast, read the article, and read Sony's response to the BBC, and are still not understanding. I'm not going to even try. It's like ice-skating uphill. Needless to say, the report itself was a fallacy of journalism. The BBC were made aware of the problems with the report, prior to it's being aired...and aired it anyway. Thusly, the BBC and it's subsidiaries are liable in the amount of whatever Sony's massive cadre of lawyers will squeeze out of them.

Lord_Gremlin:
Paid by Microsoft. Lies inside (c).

Way to fanboy.

Anyway, if Sony don't want criticism, don't give them anything to criticise.

Kenjitsuka:
Because not too many break they should be nicer on the warranty!

Wait, please explain your logic there. Because if it doesn't break, they should increase the period where you can get free repair? That truly makes no sense

I like how the same people who were claiming the Game Informer statistics on the RROD were correct are now going after the guys who made this article. I honestly think that both incidents are cases of sensationalist journalism: the media pumping up statistics to look outrageous to attract views. Neither study was conducted properly, so I cannot believe either of them.

Arbitrary Cidin:
Am I the only person who's NEVER had a working "refurbished" item?

Probably. My entire computer is built on refurbed stuff, and it's lasted for almost 10 years now.

And tbh, the BBC report was quite the mudslinging slander. They had a 360 fanboy on Microsoft's payroll do the report for christ sakes. Not to mention their claim of the defect to the PS3 and the solution is almost completely BS since their technician's solution only allowed the PS3 that they "fixed" to last for a week. 4 out of 11 of their "fixed" PS3s broke in a week. Talk about fail rate.

Megacherv:

Kenjitsuka:
Because not too many break they should be nicer on the warranty!

Wait, please explain your logic there. Because if it doesn't break, they should increase the period where you can get free repair? That truly makes no sense

If you're Microsoft and repairing 360's all day long is pretty much all you are doing (3 year warranty on those btw!) I can understand you being whiney when you're them. So why is Sony giving only one year when they have to spend far less money than the competition anyway?

For example, I had a SNES break down due to my fathers fault half a year after it's three year waranty. And you know what Nintendo did? They still repaired it for free.
Those things where so robust that they appearantly had enough money in their repair budget for this kindness...

Kenjitsuka:

Megacherv:

Kenjitsuka:
Because not too many break they should be nicer on the warranty!

Wait, please explain your logic there. Because if it doesn't break, they should increase the period where you can get free repair? That truly makes no sense

If you're Microsoft and repairing 360's all day long is pretty much all you are doing (3 year warranty on those btw!) I can understand you being whiney when you're them. So why is Sony giving only one year when they have to spend far less money than the competition anyway?

For example, I had a SNES break down due to my fathers fault half a year after it's three year waranty. And you know what Nintendo did? They still repaired it for free.
Those things where so robust that they appearantly had enough money in their repair budget for this kindness...

It's because the warranty doesn't really NEED to be longer, as PS3s rarely FUBAR.

Megacherv:

It's because the warranty doesn't really NEED to be longer, as PS3s rarely FUBAR.

That's nonsense. If you sell something that's reliable you can give a shorter warranty?
Now I've heard everything :0

And btw "the period where you can get free repair" <= a 'free repair'?
Warranty is that you have the right to get the thing you bought for fixed if it craps out before is to be expected. More formally:

"In retail business, a warranty (or "extended warranty") commonly refers to a guarantee of the reliability of a product under conditions of ordinary use. It is called "extended" warranty because it covers defects that could arise some time after the date of sale. Should the product malfunction within a stipulated amount of time after the purchase, the manufacturer or distributor is typically required to provide the customer with a replacement, repair, or refund.".

So if Sony or Microsoft decides to sell you hardware that dies quite soon after purchase they are legally bound to help the problem. That's hardly a "free repair", sheesh.

Mornelithe:

Sovvolf:

Mornelithe:
Snip

Personally I think your just paranoid, and your posts defending Sony are getting extremely aggressive ,calm down, it's just a console, I don't complain when people criticize the 360 for it's short life span. Anyway Watchdog are pretty much like trading standards if a customer complains and they think that customer is being treated unfairly they will look into it and report it. Now the PS3 as far as I'm aware as a low failure rate but still if they are forcing you to pay for repairs on a fault in a product that was out of the hands of the customer, even if it's only 1200 compared to millions, it is still needs reporting, even if its the minority it's still treating the customer unfairly. Watchdog often reports any such dealings that are similar to this and often well beyond it, not because of Microsoft but because it's there just to do so.

I fail to see how the customer was treated fairly in their show either. Not even 70% of the PS3's 'fixed' by their experts, actually worked after the fixing. Electronics fail, all the time.

No I didn't either, they shouldn't have been tampering with the equipment they should have let Sony do this, by tampering with the equipment that means the customer as lost there warranty, however the console was broken to begin with and they were handing out free repairs which is what Sony should have been doing.

Mornelithe:

And when they fail w/in warranty, every company honors them, provided you haven't voided the warranty by attempting to fix it yourself, or in the extremely rare cases (I say this, because eventually, such a thing would result in massive lawsuits against whichever company is at fault...not to start anything) as AceDiamond stated, some fault of the service team inside the company that the item is being returned to.

Yes but the point here was that Sony's warranty was that a product that they sold faulty to a customer would still have to be paid for to repair it despite the fact that it is not the customers fault. That's were the customer is wronged, it should be part of there warranty, if they sell a broken product then that product should be repaired free of charge. Watchdog weren't reporting on the fact that a one in ever million(exaggeration but run with it :)) of a Sony product was faulty, they were reporting on the fact that the unfortunate customer who paid for that broken product had to pay again to have it repaired.

Mornelithe:

If the issue was their customer service, the focus should not have been one fault. If their ace team was so great at repairing the supposed 'YLOD', 100% of the models fixed, should've worked properly.

Yes it should have but they weren't great and as said before there "Ace team" shouldn't have been touching it, but that's not the issue here is it.

Mornelithe:

If the journalists had any kind of interest in actually getting facts, they would've identified the 'gas' inside the PS3, seen when they x-rayed it. And figured out why it's there, and why it isn't constantly escaping from said PS3 (as the PS3 isn't airtight). They left so many bits of detail out, that are actually pretty important, that it merely smacks of throwing bad publicity towards Sony, halphazardly. Call me paranoid, call me a conspiracy theorist, but seriously, what kind of journalism is that? The reason it bothers me so much, is a company like the BBC, SHOULD know better.

I call it bad journalism, I'm not calling you paranoid because you think the journalists didn't do there jobs right I'm calling you paranoid because you think Microsoft had some involvement in this, sure a few 360 fanboys may have reported it but that doesn't mean Microsoft it self have any involvement in these events, what happen to me seems simple enough couple of people buy PS3, PS3 doesn't work so said people phone Sony for repairs, Sony say they have to pay to fix a broken product they sold, Said people complain and watchdog get whiff of it and collar Sony on it. That or I'm extremely naive :).

Mornelithe:

I was brought up to trust the BBC as a reliable news source, and to be honest, I listen to the World News constantly, via NPR (The only station I listen to). This kind of crap, is just ludicrous. And it's sad that the BBC has fallen so much in recent years.

As was I, and I still do think it's a reliable news source, sure they make mistakes but when you compare it to some thing like Fox News the BBC is probably the most reliable news source out there. I've also come to believe (from what I've heard and seen) that quite a few Americans tend to watch BBC news because of this. This in my opinion isn't a mistake on BBC side nor is it Watchdogs but on Sony it self for making customers pay for these repairs.

Mornelithe:

But, I'll certainly be happy when they get smacked with a suit, by Sony.

I doubt they'd win to be honest.

Also may I add with no hint of sarcasm that I'm glad you've calmed down and we are able to discuss this rationally rather then throwing insults at each other :).

Kenjitsuka:
-snip-

Nononononono, you didn't get what I meant. They haven't shortened the warranty, they just haven't extended it because there's no need to, as the PS3 is unlikely to fail until some time after it's service period (or whatever the term is)

I blame the Daily Mail and the Sun newspapers. Not content with rubbishing the Royal Family, they've started rubbishing what gamers consider royalty: Sony and Microsoft. What next?

"Sock It To 'Em Sony!: Kaz Hirai challenges critics to a deathmatch!"

"Massacre 'em Microsoft!: 12 Year Olds Run Wild Online!"

"Neuter 'em Nintendo!: Man beaten to death with Wiimote!"

Sigh, I can so see this coming, damn British tabloids.

This is simply a personal discrepancy on what is an acceptable hardware failure rate. To which case, the PS3 is within industry standards. Some entitled little whiners may feel it should be 0% failure rate, and that every machine should work all the time (especially theirs), despite the face that that is impossible.

Now I'm not saying Sony is above any investigating, but if the BBC did some digging around, and only found 0.5% failure rate, then there is simply no story here.

Also keep in mind that Microsoft only started the 3-year warranty deal after the 360 had failures well beyond industry standard and were about to get sued. Judging by AceDiamond's attitude that damage control has paid off well.

AceDiamond:

Lord_Gremlin:
Paid by Microsoft. Lies inside (c).

Wow, a conspiracy theory and the wrong company tagline in one post. Yes, Microsoft pays off everybody. The BBC, Adam Sessler, and all the gaming publications.

I'm sorry, but I remember Microsoft paying Rockstar Millions so Lost of the Damned and Ballad of Gay Tony to Stay on the Xbox 360.

NewGeekPhilosopher:
I blame the Daily Mail and the Sun newspapers. Not content with rubbishing the Royal Family, they've started rubbishing what gamers consider royalty: Sony and Microsoft. What next?

"Sock It To 'Em Sony!: Kaz Hirai challenges critics to a deathmatch!"

"Massacre 'em Microsoft!: 12 Year Olds Run Wild Online!"

"Neuter 'em Nintendo!: Man beaten to death with Wiimote!"

Sigh, I can so see this coming, damn British tabloids.

If you look at them as some kind of awful satire, life becomes much better.

On another note, I am loving that avatar.

I thought Watchdog finished in the late 90s. Didn't realise it was still on the air.

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