Forza 3 Dev Throws A DLC Wrench Into Used Game Sales

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Forza 3 Dev Throws A DLC Wrench Into Used Game Sales

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Used game sales have long been a thorn in the side of game makers, and Forza 3 developer Turn 10 Studios has decided to strike back against the GameSpots and Game Crazys of the world.

All new copies of Forza 3 will contain a single-use code redeemable for a free download of the "Motorsports Legends Car Pack." Far from a simple "thank you" to fans for their monetary support, the Pack includes ten classic cars and two racetracks.

From the official announcement:

The Benchmark High Speed Ring is best described as an old airfield and hangar converted into a race track and automotive playground, perfect for all manner of creative "Forza Motorsport" hoonage and multiplayer mayhem. The track is characterized by 3.96 miles of rough surfaces and huge open areas, featuring a massive oval, an 8-lane drag strip, and an airplane hangar that players can drive (or drift) through.

The free Motorsports Legends Car Pack includes these 10 cars hand picked by Turn 10:

-'65 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA
-'64 Aston Martin DB5 Vantage
-'81 BMW M1
-'60 Chevrolet Corvette
-'69 Dodge Charger
-'57 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa
-'80 Fiat 131 Abarth
-'67 Lamborghini Miura P400
-'71 Nissan Skyline 2000 GT-R
-'65 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe

And how exactly does this stick it to used game resellers out to screw both consumers and content creators in the quest for the almighty dollar? Turn 10 believes gamers, if presented with the choice between a slightly cheaper used copy without the Motorsports Legends Car Pack and a more expensive, new copy with the Pack, will opt to hand their cash over to Microsoft and Turn 10, instead of the money-grubbing suits who run your local game retailer.

I've got my fingers crossed that it works too. I spent years working in gaming retail and the only thing I learned is that used game retailers may as well club the eyeballs out of baby seals for fun for all their unethical, essentially evil ideals.

While those of you who doubt may call this "hyperbole," I call it "my district manager had glowing red eyes and spoke entirely in Aramaic."

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Slightly Cheaper?

I tend to get my games for 40 bucks less than new. At the LEAST I get 40% off most times.

Course I also get all my games from Gamefly at this point. Which doesn't include PC games (if this is one).

Generally when I'm presented with this sort of tactic I instead don't buy the game at all.

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

I absolutely despise gamespot, but this sort of thing makes me more likely to accept what they do. I always buy awesome games new, I always buy 'good' games used. Why? Because if the game was awesome I feel the developer deserves some cash, if the game is merely good I at least have it without breaking the law.

More companies should get into the gamefly kind of marketing. X dollars a month to play a full version of their game for as long as subscribed and if they love it they can order a new copy of the game and get it shipped to their house with free shipping.

That sort of shit completely killed piracy for me, people want to get a quality service for their money not a car salesmen tactic.

PS. If there is a cost difference between used and new the pack on the new one isn't 'free' it is the difference between the cost of the used and the new one.

PPS. If they release this pack for say 4.99 (or less) later as DLC for anyone then I'll change my tune and pat them on the ass. Until then it makes me cranky.

Interesting idea.
I still like the idea of used games, but when they are priced reasonable. Gamestop probably sells their used games at over twice the price they buy them at. Sometimes they are as much as the new ones!
There was this place I used to buy some used games, and be sold PS2/XBOX games for $10, and PS3/360 titles for $20. He bought them from people for like $6-7 and $15 respectively. That I have no problem with, but 100's of % markup? Ripoff.
Maybe this move by the devs will be followed more, and Gamestop will be brought back to earth.
But I do think that when they stop producing the game, they should release the extras as DLC or something.

I remember when DLC was free.

whenever these things change, it's always at the expense of the PAYING customer.

Meh, I was planning on getting the game on release anyway, but I can see both sides of the arguement. I'm sure they'll release them on DLC eventually, for a small fee. That way they'll still earn more money, people can get their new cars and everyone will be happy...well most people...I'm sure a few will moan about how they have to pay for what others got for free.

I can understand why people would buy this new or used

some times I might miss out on a great game and some times on the developer/publishers website they don't sell these games.

take the square-enix website i saw serveral old ps1 games i could buy from them and they get money to make more games and i get a classic or out of print game for a reasnable price (20 bucks or lower)

but i can also understand why developers/publishers are trying to stop people from buying used games that they can't make any money off it.

maybe if start talking with game stores like gamestop and bestbuy etc.. even small time local gamestores about getting some cut of the profit from each of there used games they sell.

j0z:
Interesting idea.
I still like the idea of used games, but when they are priced reasonable. Gamestop probably sells their used games at over twice the price they buy them at. Sometimes they are as much as the new ones!

Game stop buys your games at a quarter of the price and sells them back at 3/4 of the original price (I think it's something like that.)
My buddy was turning in ODST, a $60, gamestop wanted to give him $20.
They were going to resell it for about $54.

Good for them. That's what will spur new game sales, giving the consumer a reason to buy it used and give them the money. More of this stuff won't stop used game sales, but it might throw a wrench in some of it.

71 skyline.
awsome.
**** used games market!~

I love the idea but - whats to stop them from just selling the code or sharing it on the internet?

theultimateend:
Slightly Cheaper?

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

Data please. Thanks.

Good! Then my used copy of Forza 3 will cost less when I buy it :)

the big game stores are gits for giving you a pee's worth of the game your trading in. when i did some work in a games shop id give £20 for a game that was going up for £25-£30 depending on what game it was and how many we had in stock and that was what i was told to do.

on topic: it seems more and more like devs i meen publishers are out to force us to buy full price new games only, while i see the idea here it more miffet at the whole "hay buy it new and get all of the game" just make an amazing game and then i would'nt be able to what untill it dropped £10-£15 used to get and play it.

There's only one car I like on that list, and that is the Skyline. :/

Good for them. I endorse this plan.

I think I should stick this here...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_26/159-A-Marginal-Business.3

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now if publishers wanna stick it to the video game retailers, they got to find a way to make sure recent video games don't stack the shelves of these stores or end up online with a "USED" tag.

Offering DLC that can only be used through a code from new games makes sense only if the gamer intends on keeping it. There are plenty of people who eat through a game, then sell it less than a week after its release date.

Only blockbuster games that are "keepers" would benefit from something like this. Games like Modern Warfare 2 or Arkham Asylum would probably see an increase.

Lowering the "NEW" price to something more manageable on a tight budget would also do wonders. But I am likely wasting my breath as publishers don't seem eager to risk taking a single step back just to get three steps forward...

After all...while this is one step up from digital distribution (physical copy), we never even saw a price drop for those games we bought digitally from the publisher... (while sites like GoG.com reap the rewards from such risks...)

It's a good idea in theory, but I usually go for a better deal if given the option. I can't say if more people would got for the better deal other than extra content, but it's something to consider. It's still better than a pre-order bonus.

A more reasonable price would be a much better idea, but apparently suggesting that is blasphemy to publishers.

Yeah that was pretty much the only reason why i bought GoW2 new when it came out. Well, that and i had to use my $50 gift card to bestbuy on something

Yeah, the Gamestops across the world aren't too greater. I once brought in 2 wired Xbox 360 controllers, Gears of War 1 in the packaging, and 3 used games, and they told me they'd give me 40 dollars in store credit for all of it. I went home, and sold them on Ebay, got a total of 200 bucks. Fuck you Gamestop.

"Do we want our game to still be played years from now?"
"Nah, probably not."

xMacx:

theultimateend:
Slightly Cheaper?

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

Data please. Thanks.

So wait...you want me to provide data that people less willing to spend money (at times 40-50% more if they are dealing with gamefly) on a new game and thus buy used exist? Ugh...I suppose I'd just point you to the ... I dunno... used gaming market.

I'm not even sure what other kind of people would be in the used market.

MK Tha Rebel:
It's a good idea in theory, but I usually go for a better deal if given the option. I can't say if more people would got for the better deal other than extra content, but it's something to consider. It's still better than a pre-order bonus.

A more reasonable price would be a much better idea, but apparently suggesting that is blasphemy to publishers.

So true. I didn't think about that.

I'm a gamer who wants to support games. I want my money to go to the developer who makes the games... Second hand games are evil, so are publishers. Money grabbing middle men. It's all they are.

theultimateend:

xMacx:

theultimateend:
Slightly Cheaper?

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

Data please. Thanks.

So wait...you want me to provide data that people less willing to spend money (at times 40-50% more if they are dealing with gamefly) on a new game and thus buy used exist? Ugh...I suppose I'd just point you to the ... I dunno... used gaming market.

I'm not even sure what other kind of people would be in the used market.

Students, definitely. Pretty much every game purchase I've made bar one or two (which I buy new on release day) over the past two years has been Used simply because they're so much cheaper to pick up and I'm a poor, lazy student.

I'm a gamer who wants to support games. I want my money to go to the developer who makes the games... Second hand games are evil, so are publishers. Money grabbing middle men. It's all they are.

Then Digital Distribution is your friend, however that's not really got much to do with Used Game Sales.

Amnestic:

theultimateend:

xMacx:

theultimateend:
Slightly Cheaper?

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

Data please. Thanks.

So wait...you want me to provide data that people less willing to spend money (at times 40-50% more if they are dealing with gamefly) on a new game and thus buy used exist? Ugh...I suppose I'd just point you to the ... I dunno... used gaming market.

I'm not even sure what other kind of people would be in the used market.

Students, definitely. Pretty much every game purchase I've made bar one or two (which I buy new on release day) over the past two years has been Used simply because they're so much cheaper to pick up and I'm a poor, lazy student.

I'm a gamer who wants to support games. I want my money to go to the developer who makes the games... Second hand games are evil, so are publishers. Money grabbing middle men. It's all they are.

Then Digital Distribution is your friend, however that's not really got much to do with Used Game Sales.

Well I'm under the same boat. I assumed that that fell under experimental folks.

I suppose I made too fancy a word for "folks who can't afford to blow 60 bucks all the time".

PS. I prefer to own my games indefinately. So digital distribution is rarely my friend these days.

unless we are talking about games from gog.

Gears of War 2 kinda already did this but I still like the idea. I approve of supporting game developers.

My PS3 blew up. Well burned up. What would have happened to me if I had already used my "one time redeemable code" to download the content and then the system decided to wanted a firey death? For that matter what would have happened if it was stolen, damaged, hard drive failure.

GameSpots and Game Crazys
(It's "GameSTOP") (Sorry for that)...
OP: I like buying used games, and am glad that it's on a game that i'm not going to buy anyway...

manaman:
My PS3 blew up. Well burned up. What would have happened to me if I had already used my "one time redeemable code" to download the content and then the system decided to wanted a firey death? For that matter what would have happened if it was stolen, damaged, hard drive failure.

They probably have an appeal system in place? I doubt the QA/PR teams for Forza's publishers would let this slip through without a backup system in place in case such a thing occured. After all, it's not as if console death is exactly unusual for current generation (4.2 Wii firmware, 3.0 PS3 firmware, Yellow Triangle of Death, Red Ring of Death, E74 error. The list goes on).

I'm fascinated how the games industry thinks it should be exempt from the second-hand market. Like they are special and better than everyone else. You can buy used cars, used clothes, used books, used music CDs, used DVDs, used furniture, used pretty much everything...

But videogames? They are "special"! It hurts their profits too much! They are barely scraping along... [/sarcasm]

Seriously...

Jandau:
I'm fascinated how the games industry thinks it should be exempt from the second-hand market. Like they are special and better than everyone else. You can buy used cars, used clothes, used books, used music CDs, used DVDs, used furniture, used pretty much everything...

True, though most of those have significantly smaller and more specialist used markets than games. You generally don't walk into a music store and have both new and pre-owned albums in the same shop. Same with books, used bookstores are a specialist market.

Second hand games are not like this, there are some specialist second hand retailers, but most retailers sell new and used side by side.

I think this kind of incentive for new purchasers is the best way to handle the market, and even if I weren't already buying Forza 3 on launch day (Seriously, I've booked a week's holiday to play it) I would now, especially as I love classic cars in this type of game.

Right, so when I'm finished with a game I NO LONGER PLAY, I should just shove it on a shelf somewhere and never play it again.

Or... I could trade it in, and buy a new game for cheaper. Who cares?

TheRealCJ:
Right, so when I'm finished with a game I NO LONGER PLAY, I should just shove it on a shelf somewhere and never play it again.

Or... I could trade it in, and buy a new game for cheaper. Who cares?

People who work in the games industry care...a lot. Imagine you sell 4 million units of a game. 2 million are sold back, then sold to another consumer for $5 less. The devs who made the game..the publisher who backed it...see none of the 2 million units that are resold.

It hurts anyone who makes money making games.

xMacx:

TheRealCJ:
Right, so when I'm finished with a game I NO LONGER PLAY, I should just shove it on a shelf somewhere and never play it again.

Or... I could trade it in, and buy a new game for cheaper. Who cares?

People who work in the games industry care...a lot. Imagine you sell 4 million units of a game. 2 million are sold back, then sold to another consumer for $5 less. The devs who made the game..the publisher who backed it...see none of the 2 million units that are resold.

It hurts anyone who makes money making games.

Not necessarily, because the person who is reselling the game is probably going to use that money to buy new games anyways. As for the guy buying the used game, well he wasn't going to buy the game at the full retail price anyways.

theultimateend:

Amnestic:

theultimateend:

xMacx:
[quote="theultimateend" post="7.148022.3422332"]Slightly Cheaper?

Want to get people to buy your game new more often? Make a quality game at a reasonable price. Yes I realize your game took 1 million dollars to make, but charging 60 bucks a pop means that you are less likely to get the 'experimental crowd' buying who make up a large part of the used market.

Data please. Thanks.

So wait...you want me to provide data that people less willing to spend money (at times 40-50% more if they are dealing with gamefly) on a new game and thus buy used exist? Ugh...I suppose I'd just point you to the ... I dunno... used gaming market.

I'm not even sure what other kind of people would be in the used market.

Well I'm under the same boat. I assumed that that fell under experimental folks.

I suppose I made too fancy a word for "folks who can't afford to blow 60 bucks all the time".

To be clear, I was asking for data on the bolded part. Not that experimental gamers or broke students or cheap bastards exist (it's clear they do), but that they make up a large part of the used market.

Or to put it another way, if you have or have seen some kind of data like that, then you can make recommendations - if students make up the largest percentage of the used market, then maybe you offer digital deals or restricted copies for high school or college students. If it's cheap bastards, maybe you offer a free to play model or a mode designed to provide additional features as an incentive to pay more money.

Or to put it in another way, think deeper about what your saying - if it's your opinion about who makes up the used market, then it's not very useful. If you don't know, you don't know. And unless we know, simply making things cheaper won't work.

For example, say publishers say "F... it, we're going to screw gamestop and drop all our prices to $15." Gamestop responds by dropping their prices on used games to $10. I bet the same students you're talking about buy the $10 game. So how does your solution address the issue of the used game market?

Again, data if you've got it, or I'm going to guess you're way oversimplifying to support your point.

SuperFriendBFG:

xMacx:

TheRealCJ:
Right, so when I'm finished with a game I NO LONGER PLAY, I should just shove it on a shelf somewhere and never play it again.

Or... I could trade it in, and buy a new game for cheaper. Who cares?

People who work in the games industry care...a lot. Imagine you sell 4 million units of a game. 2 million are sold back, then sold to another consumer for $5 less. The devs who made the game..the publisher who backed it...see none of the 2 million units that are resold.

It hurts anyone who makes money making games.

Not necessarily, because the person who is reselling the game is probably going to use that money to buy new games anyways. As for the guy buying the used game, well he wasn't going to buy the game at the full retail price anyways.

If the game is resold, then the publisher who could have sold a new copy to the next player who buys it always loses money. the only way the publisher doesn't lose money is if no one ever buys the resold version of the game.

I dig what you're saying - that if a game is resold but used to buy another game, then some publisher gets a portion of the resale money on another title. But the original seller always gets hurt.

think about it this way (example, numbers made up):

EA sells new game, makes $20
Player A sells back game to Gamestop
Player A buys new game from Ubisoft, Ubisoft makes $20
Player B buys used EA game, Gamestop makes $15

So the split of the pie goes:
EA: 20 out of 40 possible
Ubisoft: 20
Gamestop: 15

EA just lost out on $20.

Consider your version:
EA sells new game, makes $20
Player A sells back game to Gamestop
Player A buys new game from EA, EA makes $20
Player B buys used EA game, Gamestop makes $15

So the split of the pie goes:
EA: 40 out of 60 possible
Gamestop: 15

EA still loses out on $20.

The only way your scenario works is if:

EA sells new game, makes $20
Player A sells back game to Gamestop
Player B never buys used EA game from gamestop. Ever.

EA makes the same money, because no one ever buys a used copy of the game.

So the only way that scenario works out is if a game is never resold. If a game is resold and someone else buys it, the publisher always loses out on a customer.

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