"Free" Dungeons & Dragons Online Revenues Up 500 Percent

"Free" Dungeons & Dragons Online Revenues Up 500 Percent

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Turbine says revenues generated by Dungeons & Dragons Online have jumped an astounding 500 percent since the game moved to a free-to-play model in September of last year.

Turbine announced in June 2009 that DDO, which debuted in February 2006, would relaunch as a free-to-play game. There would be no time limits, level caps or credit card information required; instead, players would be able to buy optional customization items, adventure packs and other items through the "DDO Store," while fans who wanted unlimited access to absolutely everything the game had to offer would still be able to purchase conventional subscriptions. The free-to-play DDO launched in September 2009 and a month later, executive producer Fernando Paiz said Turbine was "very happy" with how the new system was working out.

He's probably even happier now. Despite being available at virtually no cost, Turbine has announced that since the relaunch of Dungeons & Dragons Online: Egberron Unlimited, the subscriber base has actually doubled and revenues have jumped by 500 percent, while microtransaction sales through the DDO Store are running at three times the industry average.

"The response from players to DDO Unlimited has been nothing short of phenomenal," said Turbine President Jim Crowley. "We've known all along how great this game is and by implementing an innovative new model that put the players in charge of how they pay and play DDO Unlimited, we've successfully expanded our reach and injected new energy into the game."

So has Turbine stumbled upon some great money-making secret? Is free-to-play the only way to fly? Blizzard and CCP, who inhabit opposite ends of the user base spectrum, are doing quite well for themselves with a conventional subscription model but it's clear that "free-to-play" doesn't necessarily mean "no money for you." And with the MMOG arena as crowded as it is, giving gamers a chance to try something new without forcing a financial commitment upon them is hardly the worst thing that any studio could do.

Source: GamesIndustry

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I think the abilitie to have the subscription and the micro transaction is great. If you want to experience specific content here and there you can without spending a lot. Also people who want it all can choose to pay per month

This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

HardRockSamurai:
D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best...

While it may be mediocre compared to some other subscription-based MMORPGs, once you compare it to the other free-to-play options it looks a lot nicer. I think that's one of the biggest things going for it.

People aren't going to be ditching WoW in droves to go play DDO, but I can imagine a fair number of people leaving the various Korean/Chinese MMOs for it (if only to get away from the anime-style worlds).

See, this is the sort of news I like to hear, because success breeds imitation. Granted, I don't think D&D Online is a paragon of good game design, but the model they've adopted is. There are quite a few MMOs out that that I would probably enjoy playing, but I'm never going to, because I absolutely refuse to countenance a monthly fee.

Letting us play the game for free, with additional features and whatnot available as micro-transactions (which use points you can earn in game as currency, so even cheapwads can unlock some of it) is a wonderful switch from "pay for the game, then keep paying for it forever or until we shut down, and if you ever stop paying, no game for you!".

If the 40K MMO that's in the works used a model like this I would actually play it (and probably end up spending a bunch of money via micro-transactions). Heck, I'd be lauding them for simply eliminating the subscription fee but keeping the initial purchase cost - so long as it has no monthly fee, that's a substantial improvement. As I've often said in the past, the day all games require a subscription fee to play is the day I stop playing games, so it's very heartening to hear that Turbine's risky move to the free-to-play model is actually making them more money.

Some of that revenue comes from me. I buy points to get adventure packs every once in a while. Don't really see the need for VIP if I'm only playing on weekends, and by buying the packs, I have them available anytime.

Free to play is a good idea I think, the MMO market is a new creature, and its quite unlike conventional video games, people arent going to play more than 2 mmos at once (and more than likely just one), its a hard sell to try and convince somebody to drop all there tough work in one mmo for another one, especially for a big outlay. On the other hand, if its free people might dive in, give it a go and find they like it.

I used to be a Maplestory player. For those who don't know, MS is a free-to-play, 2D, cartoony Korean MMORPG. It was okay for a little while, but the biggest problem with it was that the amount of experience you needed to advance a level was absolutely ABSURD. I eventually scrapped it and my roomie redirected me to DDO.

DDO is not a bad game. Not great, but I enjoy it. I follow Yahtzee's mindset of not wanting to pay a monthly subscription for MMOs, so DDO is a nice alternative for me.

I've been reading quite a few blogs and articles about the psychology behind games lately and this sort of success is not strange at all. The Facebook gaming phenomenon has really brought to light a new wave of understanding and appreciation in how to, basically, make a lot of money with the right social and psychological mechanics mixed with discrete payment options.

David Sirlin's site has a video that wonderfully touches upon what the heck is going on here. ;-)

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2010/2/22/external-rewards-and-jesse-schells-amazing-lecture.html

Well done! You might take a share of WoW's Fanbase.

Calumon: I prefer to go outside and play. That's free too, and I'm sure there's much more nicer people out there!

Free to play with paid benefits is my favourite business model, but every MMO that chooses to do that is walking a very thin line. I was actually thinking of trying it when I remembered I hate D&D.

Catkid906:
Calumon: I prefer to go outside and play. That's free too, and I'm sure there's much more nicer people out there!

I won't argue that there are more nice people outside the internet than inside of it, but, let's just say that real life's party-finding system is even worse than your average MMO's.

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

Thats...alot of new players! lol

I never thought about trying DDO until it was free. But I played for one month entirely free and subscribed for 3 months. Then real life interfered but I like knowing I can go back and play anytime and I keep all my characters and the purchased expansions, in addition to the totally free stuff.

It is a great game, particularly if you like the 3rd edition dnd rule set. It is basically pve only (the pvp is a joke) so they aren't trying to balance things around exploitative players and instead work on atmosphere and gameplay. They did an excellent job translating 3E mechanics into MMO rules and the trap system is the most polished I've seen in any game.

The end game is still a grind like any other MMO but since the equipment doesn't bind there is no penalty for making a bunch of alts with whacky builds.

Overall I highly recommend giving this game a try, even if you aren't normally into MMO or RPG type games. What the hell, it is free right?

One more thing, if anyone wants tips on getting started feel free to PM me.

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

Virgil:

HardRockSamurai:
D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best...

While it may be mediocre compared to some other subscription-based MMORPGs, once you compare it to the other free-to-play options it looks a lot nicer. I think that's one of the biggest things going for it.

Is that true?
I'm a big fan of D&D, and always wanted to give this a try, but was a little concerned that my 'free to play' would be gimped up like a hog-tied one legged sloth.

More on topic: Good for them! It's always encouraging to see new business models in the industry work!
Especially when it means less required costs from the consumer, and more 'pay what you want' kind of costs.
I like those.

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Baby Tea:

Virgil:

HardRockSamurai:
D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best...

While it may be mediocre compared to some other subscription-based MMORPGs, once you compare it to the other free-to-play options it looks a lot nicer. I think that's one of the biggest things going for it.

Is that true?
I'm a big fan of D&D, and always wanted to give this a try, but was a little concerned that my 'free to play' would be gimped up like a hog-tied one legged sloth.

Nope, the core game is eminently functional - the things you purchase via micro-transactions are new adventures, new character slots (you get two per account for free), certain races or character classes, and level appropriate equipment.

The last one is what might make you think you'll be gimped if you don't pay for the best gear, but since they restrict what's on sale by level and PvP is pretty much non-existent, there's no reason to shell out for spiffier armor/weapons besides feeling like it, and since the store uses in-game points, you can 'purchase' items without paying anything (I gave my paladin a suit of plate-mail +1 that way). The classes and races are a one-time account-based unlock, same for the adventure packs (pretty sure the items in the store are character-based).

Good for them, hopefully more MMO's will go like this and have both options available to players.

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

I think he's referring to the one South Park episode about WoW.

Well the original was completely unplayable, so hopefully they made improvements. I'm still not playing an mmo besides wow if it involves leveling though.

Don't let me disturb your argument, but on another note...

Why do people have such an issue with subscriptions? I admit they're not ideal, and I think DDO is a much more consumer-friendly model - where you have the option to subscribe, but otherwise can access your characters and basic content any time.

But take WoW for instance: you pay 15 bucks for a month's subscription, compared to say, $40-60 for a new game. As long as you get 8+ hours of enjoyment out of WoW that month, the cost-to-enjoyment ratio is firmly in your favour. Time limits are inconvenient, sure, but they hardly seem as unfair as the anti-subscription rhetoric sometimes makes out.

Irridium:
Good for them, hopefully more MMO's will go like this and have both options available to players.

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

I think he's referring to the one South Park episode about WoW.

Yes, I'm aware. But referring to a joke made about a game doesn't actually reflect the reality of the game.

Andy Chalk:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Egberron Unlimited

My tabletop gaming nerd sense and a quick Google confirmation tells me this should be Eberron Unlimited.

John Funk:

Irridium:
Good for them, hopefully more MMO's will go like this and have both options available to players.

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

I think he's referring to the one South Park episode about WoW.

Yes, I'm aware. But referring to a joke made about a game doesn't actually reflect the reality of the game.

There are two levers in life, John. Lever A and Lever B... and sometimes you just gotta leave 'er be. ;-)

I am very happy for them. I would love to play the game, but I don't have the time. Now that it is free, I'll probably kick it around once or twice a year at no cost to me.

I wish other MMOs would adopt the same model because I just cannot justify $180 a year for a game I barely play. But for something like WoW, if I could just play the PVP, I would be happy to pay them like $30 for that "module" and never have to buy it again.

The problem with free-to-play is that many companies over value their micro-transactions, and then when they don't do as well as they hoped they say "well, look, we told you it wouldn't work".

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Yes i have played wow, guildwars, runescape and city of heros, and you avoided the question, what do you define as grinding if its not killing something endlessly for level up and loot, or fishing for hours to max out your fishing?

It's quite interesting that D&D are making 500% profit by making their online game free, whereas Hulu, NYT, and WSJ are all going towards paid services. I guess it comes down to testing which model brings in more money for them. I have written more on this subject here http://drivingonlinesales.com/?p=329 and linked back to this article.

Gildan Bladeborn:
See, this is the sort of news I like to hear, because success breeds imitation. Granted, I don't think D&D Online is a paragon of good game design, but the model they've adopted is. There are quite a few MMOs out that that I would probably enjoy playing, but I'm never going to, because I absolutely refuse to countenance a monthly fee.

Letting us play the game for free, with additional features and whatnot available as micro-transactions (which use points you can earn in game as currency, so even cheapwads can unlock some of it) is a wonderful switch from "pay for the game, then keep paying for it forever or until we shut down, and if you ever stop paying, no game for you!".

If the 40K MMO that's in the works used a model like this I would actually play it (and probably end up spending a bunch of money via micro-transactions). Heck, I'd be lauding them for simply eliminating the subscription fee but keeping the initial purchase cost - so long as it has no monthly fee, that's a substantial improvement. As I've often said in the past, the day all games require a subscription fee to play is the day I stop playing games, so it's very heartening to hear that Turbine's risky move to the free-to-play model is actually making them more money.

What is funny is that it is hardly risky... People are odd in that they resent being forced but will adore you if you let them buy options. It is only risky if you just look at numbers and not how people work. The only reason I haven't played it is for the same reason I don't play any other huge and involved MMO, computer power and I know I would be sucked in forever. XD

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Yes i have played wow, guildwars, runescape and city of heros, and you avoided the question, what do you define as grinding if its not killing something endlessly for level up and loot, or fishing for hours to max out your fishing?

WoW has NOTHING you kill endlessly to level up, Fishing level doesn't matter any more either. As far as generalities are concerned, Are you claiming that anything you do that is repetitive is grinding? Are all shooters automatically in this category?

Good for them, it's nice to see a company doing well.
I don't remember them doing anything excessivly bad, so they've probably earned some success, too.

Jiraiya72:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Yes i have played wow, guildwars, runescape and city of heros, and you avoided the question, what do you define as grinding if its not killing something endlessly for level up and loot, or fishing for hours to max out your fishing?

WoW has NOTHING you kill endlessly to level up, Fishing level doesn't matter any more either. As far as generalities are concerned, Are you claiming that anything you do that is repetitive is grinding? Are all shooters automatically in this category?

you have still not answered any questions, So im done. Clearly you have no evidence or point, your just complaining for the sole point of complaining. If you were not you would have answered a question or two instead of just repeating pointlessness

psrdirector:

Jiraiya72:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Yes i have played wow, guildwars, runescape and city of heros, and you avoided the question, what do you define as grinding if its not killing something endlessly for level up and loot, or fishing for hours to max out your fishing?

WoW has NOTHING you kill endlessly to level up, Fishing level doesn't matter any more either. As far as generalities are concerned, Are you claiming that anything you do that is repetitive is grinding? Are all shooters automatically in this category?

you have still not answered any questions, So im done. Clearly you have no evidence or point, your just complaining for the sole point of complaining. If you were not you would have answered a question or two instead of just repeating pointlessness

You have still not answered any questions, So im done. Clearly you have no evidence or point, your just complaining for the sole point of complaining. If you were not you would have answered a question or two instead of just repeating pointlessness.

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

i agree completely, and it's sad to see they are making money out of it... let's hope they don't release another MMO for more addicted grindinggamers...

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

I can only really think of one (maybe two counting one that still exists from my high school days) modern MMO that comes to mind as high quality. So I'm not exactly sure that this is a bad thing, since perhaps they'll start using this model for charging folks.

I'm not highly competitive so games with cash shops don't upset me in the least. However I do hulk rage whenever the game has subscription required AND a cash shop.

Note: Cash Shop == These items make you better. Cash Shop != Buying cosmetic stuff that just gives your guy more flare. At least to me that's the difference.

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

John Funk:

psrdirector:

HardRockSamurai:
This is actually some pretty bad news in my opinion. D&D Online, a mediocre MMORPG at best, is actually making money. I was always aware that quest-grinding was extremely addictive, but at the cost of actual money? If this kind of exploitative trend catches on with other game companies, we might as well kiss high-quality MMOs goodbye.

...but then again, I'm only theorizing...

you mean like the grinding that make up every single mmog that exist from Warcraft to Runescape. I know of no MMO's that are not basicly just grind and grind some more

In the sense that you are doing similar tasks over and over, then yes. But then again, you do similar tasks over and over in EVERY game. Grind doesn't mean what you think it does.

In TF2, I grind shooting people!

pplease tell me your definition of grinding and one mmo that doesnt have grinding. And no its not WoW, unless killing a million boars to level up isnt grinding

You have to kill a million boars to level up in WoW? Jeez, I've been doing this wrong all five years!

Have you ever actually played WoW or any other MMOG?

Yes i have played wow, guildwars, runescape and city of heros, and you avoided the question, what do you define as grinding if its not killing something endlessly for level up and loot, or fishing for hours to max out your fishing?

Just want to note that I never did anything for longer than a half hour (other than instances) from level 1 to level 80. The only exceptions being professions and that's not even necessary.

I tend to look at grinding as spending hours on end killing the very same thing to level. Just my thoughts at least.

 

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