Reggie: Nintendo Doesn't Enjoy Making Mature Games

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I didn't mean to make a second comment so just ignore this one.

My wii's been gathering dust, so I can safely say that I don't care what nintendo does

Nintendo made that trippy horror game with the sanity meter didn't they?

Nintendo's current customer base is likely to buy shovelware and have it be the first instance of that shovelware they've ever seen. And Nintendo's Virtual Console probably has everything the older nostalgia gamers want.

And all the really cool innovative stuff is on the DS, which is usually also bought in quantity by many Wii owners. So ports and such are common. Trauma Center did well, maybe a Phoenix Wright game would too.

So shooters that focus on competition with strangers online...no. Heavy Rain-style mature games...hay, did The Bouncer do all that good? Who really remembers Hotel Dusk? Are we clamoring for Mass Effect Wii, with full Wiimote sensitivity in the optional sex scenes?

I mean, I downloaded Knights of the Old Republic off of Steam, then tried to play it after having run through around 20 hours of mixed Half-Life 2 and FFXII the days before. Ker-snoozled at my first big non-story 'open area with options.' Didn't play since. Does this mean I'm ruined for Bioware titles forever?

Am I honestly supposed to demand that all my half-formed science fiction and detective stories be retold on game screen, with all 600 pages of establishing dialogue, written sometimes by good writers, other times by fairly qualified monkeys?

Because I was really very, very, very, VERY satisfied with just FFXII doing a stealth retelling of Star Wars that actually made some goddamn sense. And doing it all near-optionally, in tidbit form, through the bestiary logs. Has Bioware really and truly been able to create worlds and characters as effectively contained as Spira, or Ivalice, or even possibly Azeroth? (Don't know about that last one, haven't played a Warcraft since III. Given Blizzards crazy retconning tendencies, probably not.)

how i would love to see team ninja make a zelda game. that would never happen though.

I think it's perfectly fine for them to keep doing what they do because they do it well. The shovelware for the system? None of it is made by them (well ok Wii Music was pretty crap). It's not their fault. The only way it is their fault would be for not suddenly adopting strict draconian quality policies that alienate third parties even more. And really, they shouldn't do that. The PS1 had tons of shovelware, so did the PS2. Both did well. The amount of shovelware on a system is not indicative of its quality.

Okay, that's made me have more respect for him. Seriously.

The only problem is that something like more than half of games today are rated M. But I guess I can understand why they wouldn't want to make an M game. That would badly fuck up the image they created with the Wii.

I guess he does have a point, and I'm fine with the titles that Nintendo develops. I'm more interested in seeing a brand new Starfox game on the Wii. You know that console needs it and was made for it.

Demon ID:
However it would have been nice too have mention of why Nintendo like making shovelware so much, I hate to be that guy but when I read this my mind tends to wander towards the increasing amount of shite I see being released.

It seems Nintendo get a lot of blame for the massive amounts of shovelware on the console. To be fair, very little of those games were actually made by Nintendo. It would be nice to see more mature titles on the Wii but if Nintendo isn't going to do it, I don't know who is.

Demon ID:

However it would have been nice too have mention of why Nintendo like making shovelware so much, I hate to be that guy but when I read this my mind tends to wander towards the increasing amount of shite I see being released.

They don't. People don't seem to see the difference between a game being made by Nintendo, and one that is just on a Nintendo console.
Nintendo makes quality games, not all will appeal to you (Wiisports/music may not be your cup of tea) but there is effort placed into their games, unlike Random Wiisports Ripoff Minigame Collection #8.

Oh, thank goodness someone pointed out that hardcore games don't mean the same thing as mature... I was beginning to worry that I was going to have to complain to my college education that the developer definition wasn't the same as the player definition.

As I recall being taught:
Hardcore - games with a higher learning curve, lengthier gameplay, higher difficulty, etc.

Casual - games that can be picked up and played without major dedication to learning how to play, games which can be played in short amounts of time and stop playing for even months without losing track of objectives and story, that sort of thing

Jeronus:
Nintendo doesn't need to make ultra gore and sex games to survive in a market that practically demands it. That what makes the big N the greatest gaming company ever.

Telling potential customers where to stick it is a marketing strategy? I'd hate to see your ideas on humanitarian projects...

If he is speaking of mature in the sense of blood guts and sex then I can completely agree with him. On the other hand if he is speaking of mature in the way that I hope the game industry sees mature then I am saddened.

I don't need the over the top blood and guts of madworld it does not appeal to me. What I want is a game with mature story with characters that have history, feelings, some sort of a story (other then your princess has been kidnapped please save her. What you want to know why a plumber is saving her instead of one of her knights or royal guard??)

Give me some substance. Which is what I am hoping Fragile will deliver a real story.

On another note I can't really think of ever seeing any type of marketing for the games that might actually have a story. Like I just realised that Fragile has been released in North America. Would have been nice to maybe see a commercial or something at least once even the reviews are sparse (only 4 logged in metacritic so far).

So according to Reggie Feels-Lame, the best way to support the Wii is to go out and buy the Hannah Montana shovelware that mires it's shelves? And in the process, hope that doing so will cause a timespace anomaly that causes Nintendo 3rd parties to be able to do things with the underpowered system that will appeal to a wider audience that he believes just wants to see flying limbs and blood splatter?

Excuse me while I do two things here. The first, of course, would be to facepalm. And the second would be to point out that it's quite obvious now that Nintendo is getting scared of losing sales because the short term success of the Wii may not be there in a few months.

Knowing actual gamers like I do, the few quality third party titles on the Wii aren't getting ignored. No More Heroes, Okami and Madworld were well received by gamers. Gamers aren't the ones not buying this stuff. It's Nintendo's new causal audience that doesn't buy it because it's an actual game and not some silly balance board game where the snowboard goes right if you lean right.

I hate to break it to Nintendo, but the reason people are flocking to the competition now is because XBox 360 and Playstation 3 are quite obviously doing what Nintendon't.

It's because nobody whos loves mature games owns a Wii.

This is exactly the reason why I'm not buying a Wii, Reggie.

Mabey if they made a system with a chipset and specs from this decade then third paries could port Multiformat titles easier without having to dumb them down. Its all well and good ecouraging devs to work on your system, but by making such an outdated machine (in terms of graphics, memory high def etc) It forces Devs to make a bespoke game for that system, so they either wont bother, or do it on the cheap.

guess nintendo likes to stay softcore and family freindly... which is great

As long as they keep delivering scores like the Good Egg Galaxy, I could care less.

Paragon Fury:
And I hope Nintendo never changes.

Because even without the blood, sex and ultra-graphics, Nintendo still makes some of the most fun games out there.

This is true. Despire it not extending to the hardcore gamer demographic. The games they make are still fun, entertaining and a joy to play. I dont like all of them but the ones I do dont really have all that much blood (if any)

No one expects you to make mature games, just really good games. Leave the violent and sex themed first person shooters to the 3rd party developers.

My problem with the Wii is that most games belong in the bargain bin and some of the big games turned out to be a big disappointments.

Sir John The Net Knight:
So according to Reggie Feels-Lame, the best way to support the Wii is to go out and buy the Hannah Montana shovelware that mires it's shelves? And in the process, hope that doing so will cause a timespace anomaly that causes Nintendo 3rd parties to be able to do things with the underpowered system that will appeal to a wider audience that he believes just wants to see flying limbs and blood splatter?

Excuse me while I do two things here. The first, of course, would be to facepalm. And the second would be to point out that it's quite obvious now that Nintendo is getting scared of losing sales because the short term success of the Wii may not be there in a few months.

Knowing actual gamers like I do, the few quality third party titles on the Wii aren't getting ignored. No More Heroes, Okami and Madworld were well received by gamers. Gamers aren't the ones not buying this stuff. It's Nintendo's new causal audience that doesn't buy it because it's an actual game and not some silly balance board game where the snowboard goes right if you lean right.

I hate to break it to Nintendo, but the reason people are flocking to the competition now is because XBox 360 and Playstation 3 are quite obviously doing what Nintendon't.

that is not what he is saying. He is just talking about an obvious business practice.
If your create something and find your customers will buy a particular object, then you will try to create that object to make money. He is saying that if the customers want mature games then they should buy all the mature games thus providing incentive for developers to create mature games for the Wii.

If you and million other people brought Hannah Montana shovelware, that tells the developers that you like that sort of game. So they should then create more to fill that need and make money.

He is just talking about a really common business practice.

that dont make sense cuz who buys videogames
more and more adults over 21 do
and they want a challanging game
they dont want cutisy cartoons
they want to destroy blow up stuff they want hard core games
not everyone wants to play pokemon forever
they need to expand their customer base
thats why playstation and xbox have more customers

give the customer what he or she wants and they will come to you

the possiblities are endless and they dont have to be blood and guts and gore
just more adult oriented

WayOutThere:

Flying-Emu:

WayOutThere:
"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.

But what does that mean? Seems to me that the only "hardcore" games are blood-drenched shooters, fighting games, and arcade oldies-but-goodies (I.E. Metal Slug, Contra, etc.).

It's possible to have hardcore games that aren't mature. Think of Mario, Zelda, Kirby etc.

You did not just say that Kirby is hardcore. Kirby was MADE for children and casual gamers.

My point has been made; there is no way to properly define a "hardcore" game because everyone's perceptions thereof are completely different. You want to know what I think a hardcore game is? Contra. Battletoads. Civilization III. Starcraft. Any game that's impossibly difficult, yet incredibly fun.

Kirby, Mario, and Zelda are all great games; they are not, however, hardcore. In any sense of the word.

Dark Angel Warlord:

they want to destroy blow up stuff they want hard core games
not everyone wants to play pokemon forever

That's why it sold almost 3.5 million copies. IGN

Hardcore is not "Blow stuff up." Hardcore is challenge, not gore.

psrdirector:

zombie711:
But nintendo is making a first party game that's Rated mature in japan

link please

http://nintendo.joystiq.com/2009/12/23/zangeki-no-reginleiv-just-assumes-you-dont-need-all-those-limbs/

Jarrid:

Jeronus:
Nintendo doesn't need to make ultra gore and sex games to survive in a market that practically demands it. That what makes the big N the greatest gaming company ever.

Telling potential customers where to stick it is a marketing strategy? I'd hate to see your ideas on humanitarian projects...

I was actually alluding to Nintendo's ability to give us something new instead of the watered down clones of other games. Gaming would utterly fail to change at all if Nintendo followed its competitor's example which is to improve the hardware and slap a slightly higher number on it. Don't get me wrong it is good to appease the fans but taking a chance and giving us something we didn't even ask for in the first place that takes balls.

Flying-Emu:

My point has been made; there is no way to properly define a "hardcore" game because everyone's perceptions thereof are completely different.

Oh, not this shit argument again. There's no way to define this and there's no way to define that. Pish. Hardcore games are games that require your focus and dedication to progress in. You're argument states that some people can play a game without much dedication that another person will really struggle with so to call one game hardcore or casual is futile. The argument ignores that it relies on a solid definition of hardcore to work. It presupposes a definition of hardcore in this case that being one that requires dedication on the part of the player. So what that we can't say 100% of all people who play a game will struggle with it? Do you really think there is no use is labeling a game "hardcore" if only 99.9% of all people who play it have a hard time with it?

Flying-Emu:
You want to know what I think a hardcore game is? Contra. Battletoads. Civilization III. Starcraft. Any game that's impossibly difficult, yet incredibly fun.

One, I've never played it but I doubt that a Civilization game goes all that far in the way of being mature. Two, why such a strict definition of hardcore? Three, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why an impossibly difficult yet incredibly fun game has to be mature. You seem to agree with me:

Flying-Emu:

Dark Angel Warlord:

they want to destroy blow up stuff they want hard core games
not everyone wants to play pokemon forever

That's why it sold almost 3.5 million copies. IGN

Hardcore is not "Blow stuff up." Hardcore is challenge, not gore.

Is this even what we're still arguing about? If we've moved the debate on to something else that's probably something you should tell me.

Flying-Emu:
Kirby, Mario, and Zelda are all great games; they are not, however, hardcore. In any sense of the word.

Again, why such a strict definition of hardcore? Come to think of it, why are you telling me I can't consider these games hardcore? It rather defeats your argument don't you think?

I don't think this is worthy of Nintedo worship or ire

just saying...

who cares what kinda games they make? as long as the games are good
that is also, as long as the games CONTROL good...meh

WayOutThere:

Is this even what we're still arguing about? If we've moved the debate on to something else that's probably something you should tell me.

No, we're not talking mature, we're talking the definition of hardcore. You're the one who started into this bullshit about maturity. I couldn't give two shits about the "maturity" of video games.

"Nintendo simply doesn't do mature"

Then how about hardcore? I'd settle with that quite nicely.

Is what started it. So I'll get it back on track.

I gave you my definition of what a hardcore game is. Perhaps I was unclear. There may BE a definition of "hardcore" game, but I have yet to see one that is WIDELY accepted. Because the only games people DESCRIBE as hardcore are the gore-filled FPS's and things like that. By your definition...

Hardcore games are games that require your focus and dedication to progress in.

... games that most people deem "casual" like World of Warcraft are hardcore. And what about games like Team Fortress 2, or any FPS for that matter? There's no progression, unless there's some sort of bullshit leveling system to unlock gear. Perhaps to "succeed" in?

All games require your focus. Therefore, all games are hardcore.

For someone who claims to have such a beautiful, widely-used definition of hardcore... I have to wonder why it's got so many problems with it.

Oh wait. That's my entire argument in a nutshell. You can argue that MOST games are hardcore. By your definition, the only games that would fall into the casual category are the minigame collections and things like that. By your definition, The Sims would be hardcore. Animal Crossing would be hardcore. I'm not saying that they're not; from this point in the argument forward, I will deign no game as hardcore or casual. But those are games that are considered to exemplify "casual" gaming.

Somebody who says that Kirby isn't hardcore has probably never beaten The True Arena. Or the Hades Paradox Cup, come to think of it.

Besides, American Kirby is Hardcore.

Someday I will play through God of War 3. I will never accuse it of having a GOOD or MATURE story, just a LOUD one, with some eye-blisteringly pretty visuals thrown in.

And I will continue to say that Kingdom Hearts 2 has a better and more mature story than God of War, and implemented the QTEs so they actually semi-seamlessly blended with the rest of the action.

Flying-Emu:
widely-used definition of hardcore

I never claimed my definition was widely used. What I claim is that my definition makes the most sense considering the meaning of the term "hardcore" which is "serious about it". That is probably the best way to word my definition of "hardcore" and it has the added bonus of not giving you much room to pick over my word choice while missing the broader point I'm trying to get across. Hardcore gamers are gamers who are serious about gaming and hardcore games are games that require you to be serious about playing them in order to "succeed" in them.

I'm not sure if this is different than the definition you proposed. We may not disagree at all.

Georgie_Leech:
My favourite example is Eternal Darkness. I'm still looking for a copy somewhere... Curse only being allowed to rent it...

Check Pawn Shops, it's where I found my copy a year and a half ago. $26 is a bit spendy to me, but for that game, I wasn't going to question it.

I'd prefer they do mature games in the sense that the characters act mature and the story is realistic, not the theme park version of everything.

AboveUp:

I don't think Nintendo should do mature, it'd be like Disney making a slasher movie.

Take it you missed this:

It really has some f'd up things in it from what i've seen.

Edit- Didn't realise this was necro'd.

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