CNN RapeLay Controversy Sparks Angry Response

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I wonder if the allowment of things like sexual content is what makes it less prevalent in Japan? A classic case of "It's legal, now it sucks". Kinda like how in 1984, when the two protagonists get into a super-taboo relationship, it's steamy.

Could go along the same lines of marijuana-related crimes likely dropping if it were legalized.

NOTE: For clarification, I'm certainly not saying "Legalize rape", just "don't take extreme censorship all the way."

well....all things considered I have to be in favor of this because it's CNN getting pwned again.

I swear, they're a bunch of monkeys at keyboards anymore over there.

"I frankly do not think that you are the ones to tell us," Nogami said.

this is the Apotheose of the article !

I think the ownage was even harder from CNN's pet expert, who basically said, on air, that no-one would have heard of this game if it weren't for the media outrage about it.

szaleniec1000:
Nicely done there.

Hopeless Bastard:
Hes got a problem with his argument.

There are far fewer instances of rape in japan because the laws regarding rape are different. To simplify, no damage, no rape.

So as long as the rapist uses lube, no crime.

I'm not a criminologist, but sadly I wouldn't be surprised if that only eliminated a minority of rapes from consideration. Especially the kind of rapes that are (apparently) depicted in the game.

Yes, all the rape in the game is legal in japan.

Holy shit I don't want to describe in any amount of detail what happens in the game...

But I will.

Its not "beat them until they stop fighting then use their blood as lube" rape, its "non-consensual petting followed by penetration once the girl is wet enough." Hell, getting them off is the main objective. Its pure fantasy, about as realistic as any anime. It doesn't resemble actual rape (or actual female sexuality) in the slightest.

Though, it is more credible than calling mass effect pornography.

I agree 100% with Nogami

Like I said first time around: "It's Japan. Their culture is... different from ours."

and BITCH SLAP to america, well played good sir, well played

Ha. "Would it be too much to ask that appropriate age restrictions are put in place in stores in your country so that the rational adults can buy legitimate copies?" Nogami said.

Nice one, basically summing up the real problem behind America's entire fixation on the gaming media. Regulate your damn kids you Yankee Doodle Dandies.

I have previously stumbled upon the knowledge that there are already free internet games where you rape women. These were probably made by Americans. Although I believe such games are sick and would avoid anyone who would create or play such games as though they were dripping with plague, it's not right to deride an entire people for something that a few people made. For this and many other reasons, CNN can kiss my ass.

Japanese society is much more progressive in this issue than western society, and when I say progressive I mean more comforming to John Stuart Mills Harm Principle, which states that "over his own mind and body the individual is sovereign" and that the state should create laws only to prevent people from harming each other.

This is in my opinion the gold standard for jurisdiction in a liberal society, and should be adopted everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

Fox, CNN...
Damn, the media sucks...

I'm siding with what's-his-name on this one.

laryri:
CNN isn't going to respond to this. First rule of media, if you get torn apart by someone and have no defense, ignore it. Your viewers won't know, they go to you for news.

Sadly, I must agree with you.
The general public isn't going to know anything about this.

Take this down

CNN is the only news source to throw such a hissy fit. Even Fox brushed it off 3 years ago and when they talked about it they had 2 sides discuss the issue instead of 2 PC liberal jackass hosts

Sonofadiddly:
Although I believe such games are sick and would avoid anyone who would create or play such games as though they were dripping with plague, it's not right to deride an entire people for something that a few people made.

How would playing a rape game make me a worse person, I have played rapelay out of curiosity and it didn't arouse me, but even if I loved to fantasize about rape (or even worse, raping children), that would still not make me a bad person, a sane person is perfectly capable separating his/her fantasies from ethical thinking and actions in the real world.

Everyone's talking about these crime rates in Japan and stuff, but that's assuming that rape is persecuted in Japan the way it is in the U.S. (With extreme distaste.) AND that most of the rapes and crimes and such are accurately reported.
Now, if Japan's ability to properly prosecute and report incidents to the degree that America does, then yes, they have less crime.
Personally, I've never been to Japan, so I wouldn't know. However, it is something to consider.

While insinuating that the culture of Japan is rife with crime (or some such similar statement) is outside what the news should be saying, I feel that a game like that is disgusting. It's vile, cruel, and appears to condone the rape of women. While I agree that most aspects of life are in shades of grey, I firmly believe that there are a few blacks and whites and rape, to me, will always be wrong. (You can argue that women sometimes falsely accuse men of rape, but then it isn't rape so it's excluded from my statement.) Rape is one of the worst things you could ever do to a person. I can't think of words that describe how horrible it is well enough. Typically, if I were trying to describe something THIS BAD, I would say it's like rape in how awful it is.
So the fact that a game like that even exists offends and disgusts me. Whoever invented this game is a sick person, no matter what the intention.

dochmbi:
How would playing a rape game make me a worse person, I have played rapelay out of curiosity and it didn't arouse me, but even if I loved to fantasize about rape (or even worse, raping children), that would still not make me a bad person, a sane person is perfectly capable separating his/her fantasies from ethical thinking and actions in the real world.

Fantasizing and roleplaying is one thing because fantasies are with only yourself and your mind and roleplaying is actually consensual anyways.
The problem with making games like RapeLay is that it encourages, condones, and/or justifies rape too much. I feel that sensible people SHOULD be offended by this; it shows that we still look down upon rape. If we become numb to it because of repeated appearances in video games and such, then we'll care less about the incident.

What you say about seperating fantasies from ethical thinking does make sense. However, one must consider the implications of it. What if someone decides to take advantage of that fantasy and make it real? That's where the fear lies.

the_bearpelt:
A solid point

I hear your point, and raise you a logical response!

Sexuality, and anything to do with it, is a extremely touchy subject here in the West. Hell, showing a titty on TV for no more than a second is considered EXTREMELY HARMFUL AND REQUIRES STRICT REGULATION!!!! Over in Japan especially, this does not carry as much weight.

You are angry that the game allows someone to do something that is despicable...however, I wonder where you were for all the other games that have come out. Ones that allow people to kill. Or allow you to force people out of their homes. Or games that magically pay you for doing despicable things to law enforcement, government officials, and other such important people.

Raising an outrage over one particular subject, but then ignoring all the other terrible things that are shown in both movies and books and video games is holding an unfair standard up.

While I think the idea of rape is disgusting and should not happen in real life. I also have this view about violence and many other things that happen in games, so I don't really see what the difference is, except societies idea of what is socially acceptable. I don't think I'd want to play a game like that though, it'd make me feel wrong, just like sometimes I feel wrong shooting people if they're not just faceless and personality less animated characters or machines.

The_Logician19:

laryri:
CNN isn't going to respond to this. First rule of media, if you get torn apart by someone and have no defense, ignore it. Your viewers won't know, they go to you for news.

Or they're going to bring up "statistics" and "experts" that prove him wrong. They've done that before; it's pretty much the only reason anyone took Jack Thompson seriously.

'pologies.

Except that there are none. Doesn't help that the US is the most sexually repressed nation outside of the middle east and has one of the highest rates of rape and molestation on earth.

dochmbi:
Japanese society is much more progressive in this issue than western society, and when I say progressive I mean more comforming to John Stuart Mills Harm Principle, which states that "over his own mind and body the individual is sovereign" and that the state should create laws only to prevent people from harming each other.

This is in my opinion the gold standard for jurisdiction in a liberal society, and should be adopted everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

I'm curious, what do you mean in regards to rape?
I read the summary, but I'm having difficulty understand what you were trying to get at.

The way it's phrased (if I'm understanding it correctly) makes it sound all wonderful and stuff, but then it would boil down to, in court, coming up with a good argument of how you helped someone, even if you hurt them. That sounds farfetched, but have you HEARD of some of the frivolous lawsuits going around? The jurors are made up of regular citizens and, unfortunately, sometimes those people are idiots or jerks.

asinann:

The_Logician19:

laryri:
CNN isn't going to respond to this. First rule of media, if you get torn apart by someone and have no defense, ignore it. Your viewers won't know, they go to you for news.

Or they're going to bring up "statistics" and "experts" that prove him wrong. They've done that before; it's pretty much the only reason anyone took Jack Thompson seriously.

'pologies.

Except that there are none.

I very much doubt that.

I never understood why people aren't nearly as picky about violence as they are about sex over here (in the US). I mean, obviously rape is a crime, but I'm talking about in general. Sex is natural, something everyone will go through in their lives. I doubt many people will be blowing people's heads off with shotguns.

Still, good on you Nogami. Not sure I'd personally want to play the game, but you obviously win this argument.

Mackheath:
Whilst I find these sorts of games ver distasteful, the hysteria over it is a bit rich coming from a country like the US, where a child can blow an adults head off with a legal gun.

Hopefully the world doesn't start getting censorship ideas now...

You said it. Yeah, I think the concept is absolutely gross, but the man has a point. Well, a few actually.

Snowalker:

SgtWaffles:
Woah, CNN getting owned again??!?! What is this madness!

No, this is THE GAMING COMMUNITY!! *kick*

Whoa!!! I had to do a double take at your name and picture LOL!!

On topic:

If it's something that's legal in Japan.. Why the hell is CNN even bothering with it? Fear mongering assholes... They really had this one coming to them... Now all we need is Developers to host talk shows and bring in newscasters to tear apart and cut off mid-sentence like they do all the time!

the_bearpelt:

Fantasizing and roleplaying is one thing because fantasies are with only yourself and your mind and roleplaying is actually consensual anyways.
The problem with making games like RapeLay is that it encourages, condones, and/or justifies rape too much. I feel that sensible people SHOULD be offended by this; it shows that we still look down upon rape. If we become numb to it because of repeated appearances in video games and such, then we'll care less about the incident.

What you say about seperating fantasies from ethical thinking does make sense. However, one must consider the implications of it. What if someone decides to take advantage of that fantasy and make it real? That's where the fear lies.

Have I become numb to murder because I have killed thousands upon thousands of people in video games? No. And how come mass murder in games is ok but rape is not? How exactly is rape any more evil?
As a liberalist I have to come out and defend free speech, even if it's something I dislike very much, whether it be the ravings of a fundamentalist or a controversial videogame. We can't have a double standard of free speech, where only some things are allowed and others aren't, cause then who gets to decide what's acceptable and what isn't. The only thing that must not permitted is hate speech, because that has too much potential to cause harm. A hardcore libertarian might argue that even hatespeech should be permitted, but I would not go that far, I follow classical liberalism in my thinking.

*post edited slightly

the_bearpelt:

Fantasizing and roleplaying is one thing because fantasies are with only yourself and your mind and roleplaying is actually consensual anyways.
The problem with making games like RapeLay is that it encourages, condones, and/or justifies rape too much. I feel that sensible people SHOULD be offended by this; it shows that we still look down upon rape. If we become numb to it because of repeated appearances in video games and such, then we'll care less about the incident.

Biggest selling entertainment product ever.

You were saying?

"Naturally, that is not to say that our society is without problems, but to be honest, I frankly do not think that you are the ones to tell us"

Yep, that about sums up everything right there. Maybe when your own country is a Eden you can start talking about others, but before then it's just rude!

Ninja Edit:

I feel that sensible people SHOULD be offended by this; it shows that we still look down upon rape.

Sensible people can and will be offended by this. But that doesn't mean it should be banned. That's always been the sticking point with censorship. Just because you find it offensive doesn't mean you get to ban it for everyone else.

UnusualStranger:
Raising an outrage over one particular subject, but then ignoring all the other terrible things that are shown in both movies and books and video games is holding an unfair standard up.

While that is also a good point, I must reply that I was offended by a lot of violence in video games in the first place. I never said violent video games are always a-okay with me.
And even if I did, there is something to be said that things like gun violence and rape are different types of offenses and should recieve different responses. WHile both are harmful, yes, they are harmful in different ways.

the_bearpelt:

dochmbi:
Japanese society is much more progressive in this issue than western society, and when I say progressive I mean more comforming to John Stuart Mills Harm Principle, which states that "over his own mind and body the individual is sovereign" and that the state should create laws only to prevent people from harming each other.

This is in my opinion the gold standard for jurisdiction in a liberal society, and should be adopted everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

I'm curious, what do you mean in regards to rape?
I read the summary, but I'm having difficulty understand what you were trying to get at.

The way it's phrased (if I'm understanding it correctly) makes it sound all wonderful and stuff, but then it would boil down to, in court, coming up with a good argument of how you helped someone, even if you hurt them. That sounds farfetched, but have you HEARD of some of the frivolous lawsuits going around? The jurors are made up of regular citizens and, unfortunately, sometimes those people are idiots or jerks.

Rape would obviously be illegal, because you are harming someone, but rape videogames would not be, since you aren't harming anyone. It's a fundamental principle on how to create good jurisdiction in a liberal society, nothing more. The harm principle itself would not be used in court, it would only be used as a basis when creating laws.

the_bearpelt:
The problem with making games like RapeLay is that it encourages, condones, and/or justifies rape too much.

in the same way that modern warfare encourages, condones, and/or justifies shooting people or virtua fighter encourages, condones, and/or justifies punching people in the face or GTA encourages, condones, and/or justifies mass crime sprees?

you cant have one rule for one and one rule for another, either they are all affecting us mentally and turning us all into the criminals the media says we should be or they are all just games and the targeted audience of them can separate the games from reality.

While freely admitting that CNN were idiots about this and Mr Nogami had a right to be offended... Japan is a country in which many trains have Woman Only sections on trains because of the incredibly high numbers of woman that get molested on them, and whose cultural practices actively discourage reporting things of that nature in certain circumstances. I don't care what the numbers say, I know what the culture says.

On a side note, the Japanese people as a whole are likely far more sexually repressed than the US, though it could be argued (and not unfairly) that this came about due to Western influences and at one time, Japan was much more open about sex than they are now.

dochmbi:
Have I become numb to murder because I have killed thousands upon thousands of people in video games? No. And how come mass murder in games is ok but rape is not? How exactly is rape any more evil?
As a liberalist I have to come out and defend free speech, even if it's something I dislike very much, whether it be the ravings of a fundamentalist or a controversial videogame. The only thing that must be restricted is hate speech, so the issue here to me would be whether rapelay should be defined as hate speech or not.

Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean you in particular. I apologize if it sounded like my meant that; my bad. What I meant more was that when my dad was my age people would become extremely outraged when they heard of particularly violent crimes. Today, while we certainly don't look favorably upon them, the outrage isn't there anymore. Not to the degree it once was. We're somewhat desensitized. (At least, where I live, anyways.)

Personally, I'm a conservative, so while I disagree with you, I see where you're coming from. I disagree with your statement, though. I agree, people should be free to say what they like. However, I also say that people have every right to be offended by what others say and reply that they're wrong. (Although there is such a thing as going to far for both things.) So, personally, I actually believe hate speech should be allowed. But I also believe that people should look down upon hate speech, scandalize it, and condemn it. I feel like that's the way it should work.

dochmbi:
Rape would obviously be illegal, because you are harming someone, but rape videogames would not be, since you aren't harming anyone.

Ah! I see. I didn't make that connection.
Now that you've explained it, it makes sense. And using it as a basis for law sits with me better than MAKING it a law. I agree with you on that point.

RikSharp:
in the same way that modern warfare encourages, condones, and/or justifies shooting people or virtua fighter encourages, condones, and/or justifies punching people in the face or GTA encourages, condones, and/or justifies mass crime sprees?

you cant have one rule for one and one rule for another, either they are all affecting us mentally and turning us all into the criminals the media says we should be or they are all just games and the targeted audience of them can separate the games from reality.

True, true. But I'm not saying I'm happy with GTA either. In fact, I despise the game.

While making seperate rules for two crimes can be a bit of a double standard, I feel it should be said that with things that complex (due to situations and factors, etc) you can't make blanket statements/rules about them either. Each is different. So I supposed there needs to be a balance between avoiding double standards while making statements/rules that match individual crimes.

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