PS3 Owner Gets Partial Refund for Lack of "Other OS" Option

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PS3 Owner Gets Partial Refund for Lack of "Other OS" Option

image

A user's complaint over the lack of "Other OS" option for his PS3 has earned him a 20 percent refund from Amazon.

Sony's removal of the Other OS feature sparked some anger, but one PS3 owner decided to turn it to his advantage by getting his money back from Amazon. Citing European law, he was able to persuade Amazon that a refund was in order, an argument that may be usable by other gamers.

The gamer, who goes by the name iapetus and moderates the NeoGAF forum claimed his PlayStation 3 no longer lived up to the advertised specifications. The console, which was well out of both the warranty and the 30-day Amazon guarantee, was deemed by Amazon to be eligible for a partial refund. Under this ruling, any number of other gamers could make the same claim, which could prove quite costly.

Sony has since issued an apology about the removal of the feature, but have cited their right to revise the console's settings in order to prevent piracy.

Sony has released an official statement apologizing for the issue, but remaining firm on their right to institute the change.

"We are sorry if users of Linux or other operating systems are disappointed by our decision to issue a firmware upgrade which when installed disables this operating system feature. We have made the decision to protect the integrity of the console and whilst mindful of the impact on Linux or other operating system users we nevertheless felt it would be in the best interests of the majority of users to pursue this course of action.

'As you will be aware we have upgraded and enhanced functionality and features of the console by numerous firmware upgrades over time and this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled. Further enhancements are in the pipeline.

'Users do have the choice whether to install the firmware upgrade and this is clearly explained to them at the time the firmware upgrade is made available for installation. Furthermore our terms and conditions clearly state that we have the right to revise the PS3's settings and features in order to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content,"

If more gamers jump on this legal bandwagon, things could get pretty messy. Amazon will likely defer these expenses to Sony if things get too bad, and if that is the case, Sony may have to either reinstate the Other OS feature or enter a lengthy court battle about the proceedings to resolve the issue. Sony is clear in their statement that the firmware update is a choice, but refusing the update also cripple's the PlayStation 3's online capability, so its hard to say whether that will hold water in court.

Source: PlayStation University

Permalink

NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

Everyone do this so we can get our feature back.

Meh, didn't care much for Linux... so I couldn't care less...

Calumon: Wish I did...that..thing...I don't understand.

As an Xbox owner, I don't see why his feature was taken away and I think it's just if the person thought they were buying a PS3 with OS features

I was actually thinking of trading in my 360 for a PS3 JUST because of that option. I love throwing Linux based OS's on everything. Now, I think I'll keep my 360.

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

They dropped PS2 emulation because it was a different set of hardware in the PS2, and it would cost about an extra $100 per system to keep in the PS2 hardware/software additions. After the second iteration, they got rid of the feature to try because it was too costly to keep. They equated it to having to put in an entirely different console, due to the differences, as they built the PS3 fresh, unlike revising and powering up the PSone, which is what they did for the PS2. It would be like asking your Gamecube to play your 64 games--you could make some serious mods to it and get it to work, but at that point you'd just be smarter to keep your N64.

Nice. That kid is a genius. I smell a future in corporate law!

Wait, Amazon could deffer damages to sony? That makes no since. It was Amazon's decision to provide sony's products; I guess if amazon and sony had some type of special distribution agreement that would make sense.

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

They dropped PS2 emulation because it was a different set of hardware in the PS2, and it would cost about an extra $100 per system to keep in the PS2 hardware/software additions. After the second iteration, they got rid of the feature to try because it was too costly to keep. They equated it to having to put in an entirely different console, due to the differences, as they built the PS3 fresh, unlike revising and powering up the PSone, which is what they did for the PS2. It would be like asking your Gamecube to play your 64 games--you could make some serious mods to it and get it to work, but at that point you'd just be smarter to keep your N64.

Maybe so but the ones that HAD the PS2X Chip still inside were neutered by firmware afterwards.

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Add in Sonys false advertising about there console being able to do EVERYTHING ( which it does not ) and you got a recipe for being a lawsuit target.

I get what you are saying though.

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

That would mean they'd have to include said features to begin with... instead of purchasing them piece-meal.

That fills my fanboy rebuttal quota for the week.
I'm outta here.

I wonder if I could get money back on this. Probably not though since I got my slim ps3 for free with a phone....still though if it escalates far enough sony might start paying out

Austin MacKenzie:
PS3 Owner Gets Partial Refund for Lack of "Other OS" Option

image

A user's complaint over the lack of "Other OS" option for his PS3 has earned him a 20 percent refund from Amazon.

Sony's removal of the Other OS feature sparked some anger, but one PS3 owner decided to turn it to his advantage by getting his money back from Amazon. Citing European law, he was able to persuade Amazon that a refund was in order, an argument that may be usable by other gamers.

The gamer, who goes by the name iapetus and moderates the NeoGAF forum claimed his PlayStation 3 no longer lived up to the advertised specifications. The console, which was well out of both the warranty and the 30-day Amazon guarantee, was deemed by Amazon to be eligible for a partial refund. Under this ruling, any number of other gamers could make the same claim, which could prove quite costly.

Sony has since issued an apology about the removal of the feature, but have cited their right to revise the console's settings in order to prevent piracy.

Sony has released an official statement apologizing for the issue, but remaining firm on their right to institute the change.

"We are sorry if users of Linux or other operating systems are disappointed by our decision to issue a firmware upgrade which when installed disables this operating system feature. We have made the decision to protect the integrity of the console and whilst mindful of the impact on Linux or other operating system users we nevertheless felt it would be in the best interests of the majority of users to pursue this course of action.

'As you will be aware we have upgraded and enhanced functionality and features of the console by numerous firmware upgrades over time and this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled. Further enhancements are in the pipeline.

'Users do have the choice whether to install the firmware upgrade and this is clearly explained to them at the time the firmware upgrade is made available for installation. Furthermore our terms and conditions clearly state that we have the right to revise the PS3's settings and features in order to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content,"

If more gamers jump on this legal bandwagon, things could get pretty messy. Amazon will likely defer these expenses to Sony if things get too bad, and if that is the case, Sony may have to either reinstate the Other OS feature or enter a lengthy court battle about the proceedings to resolve the issue. Sony is clear in their statement that the firmware update is a choice, but refusing the update also cripple's the PlayStation 3's online capability, so its hard to say whether that will hold water in court.

Source: PlayStation University

Permalink

As stated in all the documents that come with the console and in many other companies terms of use.

Sony have the right to change or otherwise modify the console without prior notice

That wasn't a direct quote bu that is along the lines of what it says. [b]Sony are well within their rights here to remove the option.

LOL 20%.... wow

Whats with installing Linux on everything? Just by a Thinkpad and move on, jebus!

Oh noes, no Linux on PS3. For shame Sony! /sarcasm

Digikid:

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

They dropped PS2 emulation because it was a different set of hardware in the PS2, and it would cost about an extra $100 per system to keep in the PS2 hardware/software additions. After the second iteration, they got rid of the feature to try because it was too costly to keep. They equated it to having to put in an entirely different console, due to the differences, as they built the PS3 fresh, unlike revising and powering up the PSone, which is what they did for the PS2. It would be like asking your Gamecube to play your 64 games--you could make some serious mods to it and get it to work, but at that point you'd just be smarter to keep your N64.

Maybe so but the ones that HAD the PS2X Chip still inside were neutered by firmware afterwards.

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Add in Sonys false advertising about there console being able to do EVERYTHING ( which it does not ) and you got a recipe for being a lawsuit target.

I get what you are saying though.

From my understanding (which is a non-profesional-but-highly-interested one), the function was ceased so that they wouldn't have to continue to build PS2-capable safeguards for the new software updates (and also so that they can continue to supply a small amount of PS2's, which still sell relatively well, apparently).

And in fairness, we know the EVERYTHING adds aren't for real. For instance, it won't survive a 6 story fall to the ground out an open window, for go swimming with you as a flotation device, both of which are nominally included in everything. That's not so much false advertising as it is hyperbole in advertising.

Digikid:

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Sorry, I lied apparently.
Misinformation is a nasty thing.
I have a BC 80GB PS3. The BC function wasn't removed by any firmware that I'm aware of. I can still play my PS2 games on PS3...

Checking information is very easy in the digital age. Maybe you want to do that before you start typing?

s69-5:

Digikid:

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Sorry, I lied apparently.
Misinformation is a nasty thing.
I have a BC 80GB PS3. The BC function wasn't removed by any firmware that I'm aware of. I can still play my PS2 games on PS3...

Checking information is very easy in the digital age. Maybe you want to do that before you start typing?

If they did remove these functions I'm sure there would be quite a lawsuit and a LOT of people would be angry, it'd be big news and hard to miss.

Blizzaga19:

Sony have the right to change or otherwise modify the console without prior notice

That is known as an Unconsionable Clause http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability exactly the same way as if Sony said "Buying the PS3 sells your children into slavery". Sony is taking advantage of its superior bargaining position to add provisions that are overwhelmingly in its favor.

Fortunately in the EU the consumer protection laws are more sane than in the US and corps that try this crap get slapped down occasionally.

What does this mean? Was he refunded 20% of the price and got to keep his PS3? Or did he turn in his PS3 and got 20% of the price back?

Because I'm troubled enough by an immature Windows 7-computer and so not needing to install OS'es on my PS3 this isn't a problem for me.

But damnit, Sony, you've shot yourselves in the foot again.

He's well in his right to get a refund, atleast a partial one. The advertising and specifcations which he bought the full price for are now disabled/removed alltogether. This is basically punishing your own fanbase for the fear of Piracy..SONY...WAKE UP. THIS WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT.

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

They dropped PS2 emulation because it was a different set of hardware in the PS2, and it would cost about an extra $100 per system to keep in the PS2 hardware/software additions. After the second iteration, they got rid of the feature to try because it was too costly to keep. They equated it to having to put in an entirely different console, due to the differences, as they built the PS3 fresh, unlike revising and powering up the PSone, which is what they did for the PS2. It would be like asking your Gamecube to play your 64 games--you could make some serious mods to it and get it to work, but at that point you'd just be smarter to keep your N64.

Maybe so but the ones that HAD the PS2X Chip still inside were neutered by firmware afterwards.

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Add in Sonys false advertising about there console being able to do EVERYTHING ( which it does not ) and you got a recipe for being a lawsuit target.

I get what you are saying though.

From my understanding (which is a non-profesional-but-highly-interested one), the function was ceased so that they wouldn't have to continue to build PS2-capable safeguards for the new software updates (and also so that they can continue to supply a small amount of PS2's, which still sell relatively well, apparently).

And in fairness, we know the EVERYTHING adds aren't for real. For instance, it won't survive a 6 story fall to the ground out an open window, for go swimming with you as a flotation device, both of which are nominally included in everything. That's not so much false advertising as it is hyperbole in advertising.

LOL!!!!!!! True.....if you take it to an extreme that is. :D

s69-5:

Digikid:

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Sorry, I lied apparently.
Misinformation is a nasty thing.
I have a BC 80GB PS3. The BC function wasn't removed by any firmware that I'm aware of. I can still play my PS2 games on PS3...

Checking information is very easy in the digital age. Maybe you want to do that before you start typing?

Hmm...lets see here. NONE of my PS2 games will work in my PS3.....but beforehand when I first got my PS3 they did.

Care to explain? I twiddle my thumbs in anticipation of your response oh wise one. /sarcasm

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

I was thinking that too? It's not that rare.
And really what functions have they added? Worthless things like the facebook app? How about the most worthless features from the other consoles like Homiis and achievement trophies?
Actual cool features like custom soundtrack and video capture are left to the devs to implement and they hardly ever do. In fact I can count on one hand the amount of games I have with custom soundtracks and/or video capture. The only one that has both is Noby Noby Boy. WTF?

Yea as a ps3 owner and a consumer rights advocate, friends usually come to me to ask what the ps3 has to offer over the 360. The thing is that now MS has finally fixed the rrod and sony keeps taking features away from the ps3, I can't in good conscience recommend it anymore.

I'm thinking about switching to the 360 myself at least with that I can use custom soundtracks with any game I want.

Digikid:

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:

BehattedWanderer:

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

They dropped PS2 emulation because it was a different set of hardware in the PS2, and it would cost about an extra $100 per system to keep in the PS2 hardware/software additions. After the second iteration, they got rid of the feature to try because it was too costly to keep. They equated it to having to put in an entirely different console, due to the differences, as they built the PS3 fresh, unlike revising and powering up the PSone, which is what they did for the PS2. It would be like asking your Gamecube to play your 64 games--you could make some serious mods to it and get it to work, but at that point you'd just be smarter to keep your N64.

Maybe so but the ones that HAD the PS2X Chip still inside were neutered by firmware afterwards.

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Add in Sonys false advertising about there console being able to do EVERYTHING ( which it does not ) and you got a recipe for being a lawsuit target.

I get what you are saying though.

From my understanding (which is a non-profesional-but-highly-interested one), the function was ceased so that they wouldn't have to continue to build PS2-capable safeguards for the new software updates (and also so that they can continue to supply a small amount of PS2's, which still sell relatively well, apparently).

And in fairness, we know the EVERYTHING adds aren't for real. For instance, it won't survive a 6 story fall to the ground out an open window, for go swimming with you as a flotation device, both of which are nominally included in everything. That's not so much false advertising as it is hyperbole in advertising.

LOL!!!!!!! True.....if you take it to an extreme that is. :D

:D Life's not fun until you drop things out the eXtreme! of windows. Btw, those are my two primary standards of 'does everything', with a list of about 5 others that go under 'secondary'. If they're electronic, my favorite test is the "impact of a golf club", and my other favorite is the "motherboard immersed in corn syrup, left on a pile of ants until clean and re-inserted" test. Actually, they're all quite fun...like trying to grow a potato inside of an old computer.

Nice little loop-hole the guy found there, although this could cause quite a commotion if others try this out. I never used the feature myself, but I'm sure some people miss it.

Sony can write whatever the hell they like in their terms and conditions about what "rights they reserve".
It doesn't change the fact that their product now no-longer meets the advertised specification. It's a violation of consumer law and essentially "false advertising". In addition, it is mentioned nowhere on the product's outer packaging about Sony reserving the right to remove features at will.
Sony's misconduct can be viewed from the point of view of false-advertising, or from the point of view of knowingly and willingly damaging others' property, by rendering products incapable of functioning as specified on purchase.
Either way, Sony have committed criminal acts with this update.

What if Sony were to release an update making PS3s incapable of playing any games, because they "reserved the right" to remove features, attempting to boost sales of the inevitable PS4?
The principle is exactly the same, as is the legal situation.

I speak as a PS3 owner who has never had any intention of installing an OS, but is disturbed at the precedent it sets. Sony needs to be reminded of it's place, and reminded that the black obelisks sitting in bedrooms across the world belong to gamers, not to them.
I fail to see of what benefit removing this feature could have brought to the "majority of users". Furthermore, they have no right to manipulate other people's property "to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content" regardless of what's written in their terms and conditions. If there is an issue with piracy, it's up to the Courts and Police to sort it out.

Well, I bought my PS3 used so I can't get any money from Amazon, but I hope more people do this so that Sony removing the Other OS feature turns into a problem for Sony and not for us.

Blizzaga19:

Austin MacKenzie:
PS3 Owner Gets Partial Refund for Lack of "Other OS" Option

image

A user's complaint over the lack of "Other OS" option for his PS3 has earned him a 20 percent refund from Amazon.

Sony's removal of the Other OS feature sparked some anger, but one PS3 owner decided to turn it to his advantage by getting his money back from Amazon. Citing European law, he was able to persuade Amazon that a refund was in order, an argument that may be usable by other gamers.

The gamer, who goes by the name iapetus and moderates the NeoGAF forum claimed his PlayStation 3 no longer lived up to the advertised specifications. The console, which was well out of both the warranty and the 30-day Amazon guarantee, was deemed by Amazon to be eligible for a partial refund. Under this ruling, any number of other gamers could make the same claim, which could prove quite costly.

Sony has since issued an apology about the removal of the feature, but have cited their right to revise the console's settings in order to prevent piracy.

Sony has released an official statement apologizing for the issue, but remaining firm on their right to institute the change.

"We are sorry if users of Linux or other operating systems are disappointed by our decision to issue a firmware upgrade which when installed disables this operating system feature. We have made the decision to protect the integrity of the console and whilst mindful of the impact on Linux or other operating system users we nevertheless felt it would be in the best interests of the majority of users to pursue this course of action.

'As you will be aware we have upgraded and enhanced functionality and features of the console by numerous firmware upgrades over time and this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled. Further enhancements are in the pipeline.

'Users do have the choice whether to install the firmware upgrade and this is clearly explained to them at the time the firmware upgrade is made available for installation. Furthermore our terms and conditions clearly state that we have the right to revise the PS3's settings and features in order to prevent access to unauthorised or pirated content,"

If more gamers jump on this legal bandwagon, things could get pretty messy. Amazon will likely defer these expenses to Sony if things get too bad, and if that is the case, Sony may have to either reinstate the Other OS feature or enter a lengthy court battle about the proceedings to resolve the issue. Sony is clear in their statement that the firmware update is a choice, but refusing the update also cripple's the PlayStation 3's online capability, so its hard to say whether that will hold water in court.

Source: PlayStation University

Permalink

As stated in all the documents that come with the console and in many other companies terms of use.

Sony have the right to change or otherwise modify the console without prior notice

That wasn't a direct quote bu that is along the lines of what it says. [b]Sony are well within their rights here to remove the option.

I believe there are laws and precedents which protect consumers from that. Basically the consumer has little access to these documents before the purchase therefore the terms specified are null in light of other laws. I only know some basics of law, so I don't know how reliable this is.

If you tick a box at the bottom of a terms-and-conditions popup where I reserve the right to kill you, and then I go ahead with the slaughter, I'm still guilty of murder, and still accountable to laws, regardless of what you've clicked "I agree" on.

Digikid:
NICE!!!!

Eat that Sony!!!! LOL!!!

this is a very rare instance where a feature will be disabled.

Bull. PS2 Emulation? Sound familiar?

I was talking about this to a co-worker. He wanted to know what console to get. I told him 360 because at least Microsoft does not have false advertising and takes away promised features at their own will.

Definitely not. Like that time they didn't take away support for third party memory peripherals because some British company was producing much better ones than Microsoft. I remember that never happening very clearly.

Digikid:

s69-5:

Digikid:

Even the 80GB ones that had PS2 compatibility software had that feature removed.

Sorry, I lied apparently.
Misinformation is a nasty thing.
I have a BC 80GB PS3. The BC function wasn't removed by any firmware that I'm aware of. I can still play my PS2 games on PS3...

Checking information is very easy in the digital age. Maybe you want to do that before you start typing?

Hmm...lets see here. NONE of my PS2 games will work in my PS3.....but beforehand when I first got my PS3 they did.

Care to explain? I twiddle my thumbs in anticipation of your response oh wise one. /sarcasm

As dubious as your claim of PS3 ownership is, I'll bite. It seems to be some personal issues with you PS3 I'd say, since no firmware ever removed BC functionality.

Hehe, now thats is intresting.

Just makes me wonder if anyone else is going to jump onto the bang wagon regarding this issue...

Intriguing use of law though. I like it

ok dont wanna sound stupid but whats Os?

OK, so I have to wonder, what happens to all the scientific communities that were using a PS3 for their research? Does this completley screw them over, or can they just skip the upgrade?

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