Move and Natal Will Be "Game Changer or Gimmicks" at E3

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

Move and Natal Will Be "Game Changer or Gimmicks" at E3

image

Analyst Michael Pachter says the 2010 edition of E3 will be a big one for Microsoft and Sony as the industry decides whether Project Natal and PlayStation Move are "game changers or gimmicks."

It's tough to be judged. You go out into the world and do your very best, only to have people point and laugh and throw beer bottles at you. But judgment is an unavoidable consequence of action and at the upcoming E3, both Microsoft and Sony - who are trying to break innovative new ground with their Project Natal and Move motion controllers - will be closely scrutinized indeed.

"After a difficult year in the videogame industry, next week's E3 Electronic Entertainment Expo has the potential to turn the tide of investor concerns and start a wave of positive momentum for the videogame industry for the rest of 2010," Pachter said. "The much-hyped Natal and Move motion controllers have the potential to drive meaningful incremental hardware and software sales upon their releases, and the entire videogame industry will be anxious to see whether the new devices are game changers or gimmicks."

Cost is one big question mark hanging over the new controllers. In February, Pachter predicted that Natal would come in at around the $50 mark but near the end of May, Edge Online reported that the actual price would be $149. Despite its proximity, Pachter said carved-in-stone pricing probably wouldn't be revealed at the show. "We do not expect pricing to be resolved at E3, and think that Microsoft continues to weigh the lifetime value of a new Natal customer against the profits that can be made by the initial hardware sale," he added.

I have no doubt that Move and Project Natal will be the big stories at E3, precisely because I have many doubts about their potential for success. They're technologically impressive but balloon-popping party games and one-dimensional sword fighting sims aren't going to cut it, and without major developer support and a price point that puts them within reach of the majority of owners, either or both could very easily become this generation's techno-albatross.

Source: GamesIndustry

Permalink

I think people said things like this about Wii... And we all know how that turned out.

"Super Hyper Beach Volleyball Supreme Special Mega Remixed Edition: Christmas Spirit in Hawaii".

Abedeus:
I think people said things like this about Wii... And we all know how that turned out.

"Super Hyper Beach Volleyball Supreme Special Mega Remixed Edition: Christmas Spirit in Hawaii".

And it still sold more copies than anything else...

Alright, screw this, I'm becoming a Pc gamer.

EDIT: But they may actually put good games on these things, however unlikely.

Irridium:

Abedeus:
I think people said things like this about Wii... And we all know how that turned out.

"Super Hyper Beach Volleyball Supreme Special Mega Remixed Edition: Christmas Spirit in Hawaii".

And it still sold more copies than anything else...

Just proves that 90% of everything sucks. Including people.

The race to see who will become this console generation's Virtual Boy...

As far as I am concerned, its just a way for them to try muscle on on the Wii. We have seen mainly casual games for the Wii, and hardcore ones have not really gone over too well.

I just hope they dont plan on making it all hardcore, all the time. I consider myself fairly fit but I still get tired if I need to swing limbs around for several hours on end!

Hey guys, Michael Pachter here!! Today, using my almighty powers of intuition (because that's what you all believe I have, right?), I predict it will either rain, or it won't! Now pay me the big bucks!!!

Yeah, jokes aside, I forsee these both being nothing but failed gimmicks. I don't think we need E3 to show us that, but in reality it won't even become apparent until the devices get out there, and software developers start trying to put it to use.

Andy Chalk:

I have no doubt that Move and Project Natal will be the big stories at E3, precisely because I have many doubts about their potential for success. They're technologically impressive but balloon-popping party games and one-dimensional sword fighting sims aren't going to cut it, and without major developer support and a price point that puts them within reach of the majority of owners, either or both could very easily become this generation's techno-albatross.

That's the trick isn't it.
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Man, I have got to figure out how Patcher got his job.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I could state the blindingly obvious at least as convincingly as he does.

While these two might fail, it's nice to see some interest in changing the way we interact with video games. Like it or not, this is one step forwards towards those awesome Marix-esque virtual reality dreams all of us gamers have had at one point.

Kwil:
Man, I have got to figure out how Patcher got his job.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I could state the blindingly obvious at least as convincingly as he does.

My thoughts exactly.

"Analyst Michael Pachter says the 2010 edition of E3 will be a big one for Microsoft and Sony as the industry decides whether Project Natal and PlayStation Move are "game changers or gimmicks.""

Unless it's going to fry me up some chicken fingers and homemade french fries, I don't see what else it could possibly be.

Are we still listening to Patcher?

WHY?

Urgh. Anyway, can't say I'm happy with all this. I mean, I like the Wii, but that's because it knows what it wants to do and sticks with it. Seeing what was previously reasonably serious and traditional game consoles go the gimmicky road annoys me, and I don't even own one!

What's going to end up happening is it'll just oversaturate the market.

As pointed out here, Natal and Move face far greater challenges than Wii did because of their lack of integration. There's simply no choice with the Wii, for developers and customers alike, while both the 360 and PS3 face a major transitional period that could very easily fail if all the pieces don't come together properly. It's an entirely different situation.

Irridium:

Abedeus:
I think people said things like this about Wii... And we all know how that turned out.

"Super Hyper Beach Volleyball Supreme Special Mega Remixed Edition: Christmas Spirit in Hawaii".

And it still sold more copies than anything else...

Just wait for the special collector's edition and Super-Special Collector's Edition in 3D pre-packaged with a severed finger formerly belonging to the game's producers

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

Ontoue:
Alright, screw this, I'm becoming a Pc gamer.

EDIT: But they may actually put good games on these things, however unlikely.

high five! welcome to the club! we have cookies. stay away from WoW, you could die alone in your mothers basement

OT: i vote gimmick. im not buying it.

Anyone else notice what the girl; is doing has no relation to the avatar in that pic?

Anyway. Move is really just Wii motion plus for the PS3, with good 3rd party support it could work as a harcore control system.

Natal is a step in the right direction once you add in 3D or projectors with detailed motion capture we are heading to truly immersive virtual reality. Only issue is I think the controller is too far ahead of the curve and may fail for that reason alone

The key to its success is balance. If they can come up with some good games. Ones like Chipperz mentioned with RPG and RTS games. Or possibly come up with an interface like in that movie Minority Report. That integrated with voice commands could do very well. One company is already working on something like the glove for the PC. A company called Peregrine. Saw it at Pax Prime last year. Currently its mostly for MMORPG's like WOW and the like. But I could see it being integrated into something like the Natal.

Patcher predicted natal to cost $50.

Point made

I know it's been said before on this thread, but what Pachter is basically saying;

The most important games convention of the year is important this year.

Swish.

Whose to say that they can't be both game changer and gimmick? The motion control on the Wii is pretty much a gimmick, yet changed how we look at video gaming. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

The thing is that Bethesda game conversations aren't all that elaborate, doing that might just complicate things.
I like RTSs but I can't see one working on natal unless it's very simple. If there's one thing you need for a good rts, it's buttons. The traditional console pad's 10-14 buttons aren't enough, a buttonless scheme would probably be even worse. Did you try End War?
Now I'm not saying it's impossible but it will take them a long while (and a few really bad attempts) to get that down.

All motion control devices are gimmicks - a true innovation will make interaction easier and more precise. These are all Rube Goldberg devices compared to a simple console controller or keyboard/mouse combination.

Now, when we're able to hook our systems directly to our central nervous systems THAT will be something worth talking about.

Tomatoes in hamburgers are either delicious or nasty.

When do I start getting paid to say this kind of stuff?

Kwil:
Man, I have got to figure out how Patcher got his job.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I could state the blindingly obvious at least as convincingly as he does.

Yeah, I'd be set for life for doing nothing but stating tautologies: It may or may not be sunny tomorrow...

Back on topic, am I the only one who foresees a huge number of porn games being released for that Natal-thing?

If you could integrate something like the Peregrine Glove into the mix with the Natal. It would be awesome. And from reading Peregrines FAQ there are plans to put it on consoles as well.

I told a member of staff at my local GAME store recently that I thought Natal was a jumped-up EyeToy (which annoyed him a fair bit), and I stick by that. Fair enough, if Natal and Move gets better dev support than the Wii did, then maybe we'll see some decent player involvement games.

I'll wait until E3 though to see what Natal and Move can really do.

You know, if I were Microsoft, I'd really want people to use a different picture of the Natal.

I mean, look at it. Sure, you've got a hot chick doing that massively dynamic high kick.

But what's her AVATAR doing?

GonzoGamer:

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

The thing is that Bethesda game conversations aren't all that elaborate, doing that might just complicate things.
I like RTSs but I can't see one working on natal unless it's very simple. If there's one thing you need for a good rts, it's buttons. The traditional console pad's 10-14 buttons aren't enough, a buttonless scheme would probably be even worse. Did you try End War?
Now I'm not saying it's impossible but it will take them a long while (and a few really bad attempts) to get that down.

Conversations with Natal strike me as being hell to code to start with, but satisfying once they're got right. Say your character wants to get to Megaton, so you walk up to a trader and select that you want to talk to him. You say 'how do I get to Megaton?' and the game recognises 'how' denoting a question, 'get to' denoting directions and 'Megaton' as the place. He'll then point you in a rough direction or mark it on your map. You can then ask for repairs or trade, each opening their own menu (in a perfect world, this would be navigatable by voice too - 'fix my handgun' 'I'll take the leather armour.') It's essentially a text-based adventure, but spoken. After that's perfected, work could be started on recognising facial and hand movements - could you imagine being able to give the finger to a bad guy as he tells you his plan?

Also, I count 14 buttons on the controller, two thumbsticks, and the ability to draw on the map with your hands. Combined with the ability to say unit stances and quick orders, I cant think of anything else you'd need...

Gimmicks.

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

The thing is that Bethesda game conversations aren't all that elaborate, doing that might just complicate things.
I like RTSs but I can't see one working on natal unless it's very simple. If there's one thing you need for a good rts, it's buttons. The traditional console pad's 10-14 buttons aren't enough, a buttonless scheme would probably be even worse. Did you try End War?
Now I'm not saying it's impossible but it will take them a long while (and a few really bad attempts) to get that down.

Conversations with Natal strike me as being hell to code to start with, but satisfying once they're got right. Say your character wants to get to Megaton, so you walk up to a trader and select that you want to talk to him. You say 'how do I get to Megaton?' and the game recognises 'how' denoting a question, 'get to' denoting directions and 'Megaton' as the place. He'll then point you in a rough direction or mark it on your map. You can then ask for repairs or trade, each opening their own menu (in a perfect world, this would be navigatable by voice too - 'fix my handgun' 'I'll take the leather armour.') It's essentially a text-based adventure, but spoken. After that's perfected, work could be started on recognising facial and hand movements - could you imagine being able to give the finger to a bad guy as he tells you his plan?

Also, I count 14 buttons on the controller, two thumbsticks, and the ability to draw on the map with your hands. Combined with the ability to say unit stances and quick orders, I cant think of anything else you'd need...

Yea. Those conversations in fallout would be very cool (especially as you described them) but for now anything like that which they could do, would have to be optional, not just for other platforms but for anyone with a 360 who doesn't want natal. They probably couldn't make all that stuff optional if it would have additional effects in the game.
I always say 12-14 because some don't count the directional pad. Like I said, I do think it's possible for the RTS idea but it will take a while and a few really bad attempts first.

GonzoGamer:

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

The thing is that Bethesda game conversations aren't all that elaborate, doing that might just complicate things.
I like RTSs but I can't see one working on natal unless it's very simple. If there's one thing you need for a good rts, it's buttons. The traditional console pad's 10-14 buttons aren't enough, a buttonless scheme would probably be even worse. Did you try End War?
Now I'm not saying it's impossible but it will take them a long while (and a few really bad attempts) to get that down.

Endwars system was flawed I admit, but it had real potential. Combine that with a R.U.S.E. like interface and I the resulting RTS could be one of the best ever.

As far as Natal goes I think it could be great for RTS and RPG games covered well if done right, but Move has FPS games down easily. Whether or not Natal can do the same is something I will have to see. I kind of think they won't try.

Also I like to point out that the next Halo after Reach (and you are lying to yourself if you think MS is giving that up) will be made by MS in house. If there going to incorperate Natal into Shooters, there is their best chance. Though it is also be a huge risk to do so especially since not everybody will have Natal. That would be the turning point for me into making Natal a "Game Changer." If Microsoft is willing to put there biggest franchise on it.

The same goes for Sony as well. Though I belive it is more likely to be accepted. Also, Killzome 3 is going 3D. So it seems that Sony is willing to take thoes risks.

Natal will fail. So will the move. Anyone that wanted motion controls already has them on the Wii. The people I play games with all agree that playing on the Wii just never feels "right". It feels like a lack of control. I doubt the Move will be any better. And the problem with Natal is that I can't see anything besides an on-rails shooter or stand-in place game working. How are you supposed to move your character around in 3-D space with Natal in games like Call of Duty? Run in place? How do you signal that you want to shoot? I'm playing the "gimmick" card.

Silver Patriot:

GonzoGamer:

Chipperz:

GonzoGamer:
These things are already gimmicks. If they can get the devs to give these gimmicks decent support, they can move. Nintendo's mistake is that they couldn't get gamers like us to buy too many accessories and software because the little support we got from our favorite devs were usually old ports and not even from the best titles.
The wii expanded the gamer market but if it's going to expand it's own market it's going to need to hire R*, Bethesda, and Activision make gta, fallout, and modern warfare games on the machine.
Hopefully these things will be more revolutionary but I am skeptical.

Thing is, Fallout would be great on the Natal. If it's even a tenth as good as the Milo demo, then you could have conversations by talking to the characters instead of picking options. Even if it just recognises key words and tone of voice, that'd be a massive breathrough for RPGs.

Also, because noone ever listens to me, Natal would be GREAT for RTS games - a combination of hand movements and spoken orders would blow the keyboard/mouse interface out of the water.

The thing is that Bethesda game conversations aren't all that elaborate, doing that might just complicate things.
I like RTSs but I can't see one working on natal unless it's very simple. If there's one thing you need for a good rts, it's buttons. The traditional console pad's 10-14 buttons aren't enough, a buttonless scheme would probably be even worse. Did you try End War?
Now I'm not saying it's impossible but it will take them a long while (and a few really bad attempts) to get that down.

Endwars system was flawed I admit, but it had real potential. Combine that with a R.U.S.E. like interface and I the resulting RTS could be one of the best ever.

As far as Natal goes I think it could be great for RTS and RPG games covered well if done right, but Move has FPS games down easily. Whether or not Natal can do the same is something I will have to see. I kind of think they won't try.

Also I like to point out that the next Halo after Reach (and you are lying to yourself if you think MS is giving that up) will be made by MS in house. If there going to incorperate Natal into Shooters, there is their best chance. Though it is also be a huge risk to do so especially since not everybody will have Natal. That would be the turning point for me into making Natal a "Game Changer." If Microsoft is willing to put there biggest franchise on it.

The same goes for Sony as well. Though I belive it is more likely to be accepted. Also, Killzome 3 is going 3D. So it seems that Sony is willing to take thoes risks.

The big difference is that KZ3 will be playable on a regular tv too.
The risky thing about natal is that most of the games that really open it up will only be playable with natal. There will be titles like Fable 3 that can utilize natal but don't depend on the accessory but if they all stick to that, it wont go anywhere and it wont reach it's potential.
I can see a standard shooter actually being easier to have on natal than a good rts.

Sony basically did what sony does best: carbon copy another system's feature and while I don't see it going anywhere really, it has a lot better chance of being incorporated into a wider variety of standard titles.

But all this stuff are just kneejerk responses to the wii's popularity and that was mostly popular with people who aren't usually considered gamers and are not likely to buy another system. I think when S&M started R&D on these devises, they were hoping to steal some of the new market from N but that's just not going to happen.

Well after seeing that youtube video of normal people playing with Natal, I figure it's going to be a gimmick, however with a SOCOM game supporting Move it's hard to say about the move. Even though the Move controller looks silly.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here