Kinect Visionary Wants It On PCs, Phones

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Kinect Visionary Wants It On PCs, Phones

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Microsoft's Kudo Tsunoda has grand designs for Kinect beyond its current uses on the Xbox 360.

The Xbox 360's Kinect is a motion camera device that will let players punch bikers, cast spells, and raise wild felines without even having a controller in the room. Kinect's creative director Kudo Tsunoda has been guiding the device along its current path, but wouldn't mind if the technology were brought outside of the videogame industry too.

Tsunoda told CVG: "Kinect really is the first time that the video game industry is pioneering something that I really think has widespread application outside of just videogames." He says this is in contrast to the norm, with technologies usually coming from other industries into the videogame world.

"Hypothetically," he continues, "if I worked at a company that didn't only make games, but also did things with PCs and phones, I think there could probably be some possibility that the tech might get used in other places. But, at least for now, [Microsoft is] focused on Kinect for Xbox."

Tsunoda is either unaware that Microsoft does plenty of work with PCs and phones, or he's trying to be cute. Microsoft has already announced the release of its own cellphone products called the Kin One and Kin Two (though they've ended production on them) that focus on social networking, and Windows Phone 7 is its latest smartphone operating system said to be able to run software as powerful as the original Xbox's. As for PCs, well, Microsoft has some involvement with those as well too.

Technology similar to Kinect's may be installed in televisions by next year, but Kinect is more capable with added features such as voice recognition. Microsoft also has the ideal amount of power to promote the transfer of Kinect to new devices, i.e. lots of money. If Tsunoda's comments turn out to be hints, the way we control common devices could be changing in the near future, and that actually has me more excited than using Kinect to feed cats.

Source: CVG

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Not gonna happen. Microsoft wants it to sell the Xbox360. And considering how much they care about PC's and Phones (that is to say, not at all) this is never going to happen.

At least not anytime soon. I give MS 3 years to start considering bringing it to Windows.

The guys who developed the bulk of Kinect's tech are already working on a PC version, are they not?

I'd use it to navigate menus and stuff (i.e. the only practical/interesting application of Kinect) but if MS try and get devs to shove it in my PC games, they can shove it up their arse in turn. Funnily enough, he doesn't seem to acknowledge that you can play games on a PC too.

I hope Microsoft keeps Kinect away from the PC until it works properly.
Meanwhile, has anyone heard any news about Mgestyk? I've been seeing tech demos for it for two years. It looks magnificently adapted for use in front of a PC, with gesture control based on finger recognition.

The great thing about PC games in relation to controllers is that they are entirely optional. For example, there's already a motion controller with force feedback for the PC. It would be brilliant if the bloody thing didn't cost $250.

"Left, down...skip...backflip...for-...GOD DAMMIT I JUST WANT TO CALL MY MUM."

OT: Can we get over gimmicky motion controls and move on to direct-to-brain controllers, please?

Kinect definitely has a huge amount of possibilities, but I don't think the technology is quite there yet. We haven't even perfected motion controls with controllers, and I can't help but feel extremely skeptical for Kinect.

I really want it to succeed, I do, but couple with the fact that Microsoft's Marketing/PR department(s) have no idea what they're doing with it, I just smell disaster for it.

If there's anything I can be hopeful of, it'll be that at first Kinect will be slow but steadily gain steam like the PS3, but there are obvious differences between the two.

While I'm not entirely up for this, I'd love to see what the hacking/modding community can do with it if it were ported to the PC.

Woodsey:
The guys who developed the bulk of Kinect's tech are already working on a PC version, are they not?

I'd use it to navigate menus and stuff (i.e. the only practical/interesting application of Kinect) but if MS try and get devs to shove it in my PC games, they can shove it up their arse in turn. Funnily enough, he doesn't seem to acknowledge that you can play games on a PC too.

I seriously hope it never becomes standard on the PC, or anything close to it. I can't be drawn in with systems like that, I just can't, and if Microsoft starts making it mandatory (As they did with Vista for many games), that's the day I just buy a SNES, take out my N64, or boot up Elite and return to the past.

Motion sensors are shit get over it.

In my opinion theyd be a waste of space on PC when most of the games played on pc would find no use of them.

How would you use it on a phone? Do you wave to answer a call?

I'd say this has more uses OUTSIDE of video gaming than the gaming most of us are used to (small high fidelity controls).

I'm thinking an automated security or check in service. Imagine CCTV where you don't need an actual human being to tell what they are actually doing, it could tell if someone is trying to bypass some security feature by trying to lift weight up or something.

Furburt:

Woodsey:
The guys who developed the bulk of Kinect's tech are already working on a PC version, are they not?

I'd use it to navigate menus and stuff (i.e. the only practical/interesting application of Kinect) but if MS try and get devs to shove it in my PC games, they can shove it up their arse in turn. Funnily enough, he doesn't seem to acknowledge that you can play games on a PC too.

I seriously hope it never becomes standard on the PC, or anything close to it. I can't be drawn in with systems like that, I just can't, and if Microsoft starts making it mandatory (As they did with Vista for many games), that's the day I just buy a SNES, take out my N64, or boot up Elite and return to the past.

Well, the Vista thing was hardly abnormal. It was a little odd considering we're still having to use bloody DX9 (I hope you feel good about yourselves, consoles) though.

Honestly though, Microsoft really doesn't have that much control over the platform. The only reason they can dictate when people stop using a certain iteration of Windows is because they got their foot in so early.

I also doubt how sincere they're being about this. Let's face it, in their last "save PC gaming" fit they brought out GfWL, forgot all about it (literally for most of the company it seems) then pissed off again. They don't have an interest in us.

Oh, and speaking of DirectX: since DX10 can basically be achieved by modding DX9 config files, how about MS ACTUALLY help PC gaming and update the whole thing properly.

Yeah, how the hell will this work on a phone? Do not want.

On PC? .....Yes because you are jumping and moving around on a pc ever so much.

Just leave it alone...just, dont do it. We alreadty will have to suffer with it on 360, but also on my phone >< No!

I fear the day when everything is motion controlled. Like bathrooms were you have to stand in front of the toliet waving you arms around to flush the waste and then to wash and dry you hands you have to wave your arms around.... OH GOD. Can we get past montion control its not like it make anything easier, its a stupid step backwards. I have to do more work flairing my arms around then pushing a fucking button.

It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

Keep it the fuck away from my PC. That's all I have to say.

Stay to the 360. You guys are dreaming too much with your visionary skills. Make sure the product is executed perfectly on the Console. Or is daydreaming your only job and you get paid for it? I want it!

Tom Goldman:
Microsoft has already announced the release of its own cellphone products called the Kin One and Kin Two that focus on social networking

It was pretty easy to miss, but not only have they announced them, they released them earlier this summer, and then about two weeks later they announced that they'd been end-of-lifed already. I think they may have realized that what they were capable of would've been neat a couple years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now after the project got delayed something like three years before seeing an actual release. Why they bothered with the release in the first place instead of just folding the still-relevant parts into Windows Phone 7, though, I can't explain.

Nalgas D. Lemur:

Tom Goldman:
Microsoft has already announced the release of its own cellphone products called the Kin One and Kin Two that focus on social networking

It was pretty easy to miss, but not only have they announced them, they released them earlier this summer, and then about two weeks later they announced that they'd been end-of-lifed already. I think they may have realized that what they were capable of would've been neat a couple years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now after the project got delayed something like three years before seeing an actual release. Why they bothered with the release in the first place instead of just folding the still-relevant parts into Windows Phone 7, though, I can't explain.

Ah, I did miss that, thanks.

Jaredin:
Just leave it alone...just, dont do it. We alreadty will have to suffer with it on 360, but also on my phone >< No!

You have to suffer with it on 360? I had no idea Microsoft was forcing you to buy Kinect.

This is not the Wii, they didn't get rid of the classic controller.

droppingpenny:
It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

cool8man:

Jaredin:
Just leave
[quote="droppingpenny" post="7.227435.7813888"]It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

keep in mind that the real problems don't appear until it becomes available on the open market, the lag that comes with Kinect is rather bad.

voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid.
also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie

mad825:

keep in mind that the real problems don't appear until it becomes available on the open market, the lag that comes with Kinect is rather bad.

voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid.
also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie

The lag is really bad for what? Playing Street Fighter? Yeah. It's fine for navigating menus and the Kinect games that are being designed for it. I wouldn't want to play Pac-man with Kinect, but for things like Kinect Sports the lag is not a problem at all. Also lag varies from game to game which means it comes down to developer talent. If you look at Kinect Adventures (1st game by a brand new developer) the lag is much more noticeable than in other Kinect games made by more experienced developers like Rare, Ubisoft, and Sega.

Here's what Gamespot had to say after playing Kinect Joy Ride at Gamescom:

Gamespot.com:
"It may look a little strange, but Kinect picks up on your movements with surprising accuracy."

"To turn, we had to tilt our hands, as if turning a steering wheel. It was a little difficult to get used to at first, particularly as the controls were very sensitive, resulting in one or two spectacular crashes into the side of the track. However, once we got used to the sensitivity, we were able to steer our car with little difficulty. Kinect was surprisingly responsive, with even subtle movements translating to the track."

"Though it initially took some time to adjust to the motion controls, we found Joy Ride to be a lot of fun."

That doesn't sound laggy or imprecise to me. Sounds like Kinect will work fine for racing games and that most people will be shocked at how well Kinect controls.

"also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie"

I disagree that all people or even most people are like what you describe, but this discussion has nothing to do with whether the technology works or not.

"voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid."

Disagree again. Pretty nice to be able to have electronics set your preferences and load your profile just by seeing your face (visual). In multi-user environments like a family or office or public terminal visual recognition is extremely useful. As a lazy person I can say that just speaking is sometimes more effort than I am willing to exert; I'd gladly just move a hand to select what I want. There are also times when you don't want to annoy the people around you with frequent voice commands or reveal personal information.

Well I hope Kinect and its desire to become a virulent plague upon PCs and phones can register this...
*raises middle finger*
And I have another for that kinect-animal; it is creeping me out!

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

cool8man:

droppingpenny:
It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

It doesn't, I have played it multiple times at the GamesCom 2010 and it only works on eyetoy style games properly. Move doesn't work properly as well.

Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwwU8G7MxCg

Move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

Update on both
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

If you still think these things work properly you need to check your eyes and ears.

SelectivelyEvil13:

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

You're right that clicking on a virtual keyboard would be a terrible interface. But this technology is capable of understanding sign language - if not now then in the future. You could probably input words and sentences into a computer far faster with sign language than with any keyboard ever made. We teach kids how to type on QWERTY in school now, maybe in the future you will be taught how to sign in school.

droppingpenny:
It doesn't, I have played it multiple times at the GamesCom 2010 and it only works on eyetoy style games properly. Move doesn't work properly as well.

Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwwU8G7MxCg

Move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

If you still think these things work properly you need to check your eyes and ears.

You didn't give any examples at all of how it didn't work right.

Your complaint about skiing was that it was too much like actual skiing (bending knees). I thought that was pretty laughable. You do realize that there are millions of people all over the world who love skiing and would think this game was not too much effort for them? My impressions of your rant indicated more your own fitness problems than problems with the technology itself. It would be one thing if you had said the game was glitching and not reading your movements properly or even reading them too slowly. You just basically said you weren't in good enough shape to play the skiing game. (Also sounds like you weren't playing it right since you are supposed to stand up straight to do jumps)

Maybe you're not the target audience for any kind of athletic activity, that doesn't mean there isn't a bigger audience for these types of games. Look at all the fitness games on Wii which are selling millions of units. The potential audience for these types of sports and fitness games are bigger than things like Halo and Grand Theft Auto.

cool8man:

SelectivelyEvil13:

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

You're right that clicking on a virtual keyboard would be a terrible interface. But this technology is capable of understanding sign language - if not now then in the future. You could probably input words and sentences into a computer far faster with sign language than with any keyboard ever made. We teach kids how to type on QWERTY in school now, maybe in the future you will be taught how to sign in school.

Sign language was the most feasible use for the computer I would imagine, and indeed it has the potential for aiding in word processing and similar computer tasks. I am curious how the more complex interactions involved in conjunction with the word/language input would be facilitated so as not to disrupt the flow from motion control to a device such as a mouse or touchscreen.

cool8man:

The lag is really bad for what? Playing Street Fighter? Yeah. It's fine for navigating menus and the Kinect games that are being designed for it. I wouldn't want to play Pac-man with Kinect, but for things like Kinect Sports the lag is not a problem at all. Also lag varies from game to game which means it comes down to developer talent. If you look at Kinect Adventures (1st game by a brand new developer) the lag is much more noticeable than in other Kinect games made by more experienced developers like Rare, Ubisoft, and Sega.

no, you are so wrong on many levels.
Although the level of lag may be a developer factor but it's an initial flaw in the technology that is being used due to the amount of obscurities (low camera resolution ect).
the time it takes for the software to identify your actions and the CPU to process the information reflects quite clearly like in voice (speech) recognition.

cool8man:

"also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie"

I disagree that all people or even most people are like what you describe, but this discussion has nothing to do with whether the technology works or not.

I never said all people, but the majority of people are lazy but yea, it was off-topic ^.^

cool8man:

"voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid."

Disagree again. Pretty nice to be able to have electronics set your preferences and load your profile just by seeing your face (visual). In multi-user environments like a family or office or public terminal visual recognition is extremely useful. As a lazy person I can say that just speaking is sometimes more effort than I am willing to exert; I'd gladly just move a hand to select what I want. There are also times when you don't want to annoy the people around you with frequent voice commands.

so a gimmick then? Touch-screen tech gladly covers what you are after and far more accurately, with greater precision and better response times and you are after something lesser!?!? something that is far more flawed and requires more hardware resources.
the Xbox 360's is going to have it's (CPU) resources debunked by 10-15% because of Kinect meaning which it will degrade the games (for hardcore gamers) in the future just because of something that seems "better" to use.

cool8man:

You didn't give any examples at all of how it didn't work right.

Your complaint about skiing was that it was too much like actual skiing. I thought that was pretty laughable. You do realize that there are millions of people all over the world who love skiing and would think this game was not too much effort for them? My impressions of your rant indicated more your own fitness problems than problems with the technology itself. It would be one thing if you had said the game was glitching and not reading your movements properly or even reading them too slowly. You just basically said you weren't in good enough shape to play the skiing game. (Also sounds like you weren't playing it right since you are supposed to stand up straight to do jumps)

Maybe you're not the target audience for any kind of athletic activity, that doesn't mean there isn't a bigger audience for these types of games. Look at all the fitness games on Wii which are selling millions of units. The potential audience for these types of sports and fitness games are bigger than things like Halo and Grand Theft Auto.

I didn't complain for skiing being like actual skiing (though actual skiing is certainly more fun) I complained about it not working properly AND being unnecessarily exausting, it did what it wanted to do, not what I told it to do, and you had to duck very low in order to make anything happen on screen, this is what it means when it doesn't work. There is no hidden meaning. It is not even a fitness game, so why do you even compare it to the Fitness games on the Wii? O_O
But since you opened this can of worms: Wii's fitness games ACTUALLY WORK!
I played more games with Kinect than this I tried Your Shape and a different sports game, it only worked in Your Shape, and in all honesty this game could have been a port of an Eye Toy game.
I was there, I tried it, it didn't work. No matter how you try you won't find a stronger argument than this one.

droppingpenny:
I didn't complain for skiing being like actual skiing (though actual skiing is certainly more fun) I complained about it not working properly it did what it wanted to do, not what I told it to do, this is what it means when it doesn't work. There is no hidden meaning. It is not even a fitness game, so why do you even compare it to the Fitness games on the Wii? O_O
I played more games with Kinect than this I tried Your Shape and a different sports game, it only worked in Your Shape, and in all honesty this game could have been a port of an Eye Toy game.
I was there, I tried it, it didn't work. No matter how you try you won't find a stronger argument than this one.

I grouped fitness and sports games because they are both athletic activities. You provided no video of you playing MotionSports so all I have to go on are the countless other videos on Youtube showing people playing skiing and it working perfectly. Also I think you were playing the skiing game wrong because I notice that people don't have to bend their knees that much it is more about bending your torso than your knees. Bending your torso does not take nearly as much effort as bending your knees.

Here is an example of how you were supposed to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UCNpPcMsPM

IGN impressions of MotionSports at Gamescom:

IGN.com:
In skiing, I got a chance to play Super G, which is essentially a high-speed downhill run through a series of gates. Maneuvering was easy: stand in front of the Kinect camera and lean left and right to shush downhill. Leaning down would increase the speed, and thrusting the arms would dig the poles into the ground for an extra boost of momentum. While this game was still a little rough around the edges with a 30 FPS framerate, after experiencing a similar set of skiing games on the Balance Board on Wii I think it was refreshing to be able to lean and maneuver with a lot more sensitivity and control using Kinect.

What you're saying about Eyetoy & Kinect being the same is wrong. You could not do Your Shape Fitness on Eyetoy. Eyetoy & PS Eye can not detect z-axis motion. The infrared depth sensors enable Kinect to see when you punch and kick forward towards the screen. This is why a game like Kung-Fu Live for PS Eye has to be a 2D game where you punch and kick to the sides.

Also you keep contradicting yourself. You say Kinect worked in Your Shape Fitness and then say the technology "didn't work." That makes absolutely no sense. You say that Move worked fine in SingStar and then say that Move doesn't work. Huh?

cool8man:

I grouped fitness and sports games because they are both athletic activities. You provided no video of you playing MotionSports so all I have to go on are the countless other videos on Youtube showing people playing skiing and it working perfectly. Also I think you were playing the skiing game wrong because I notice that people don't have to bend their knees that much it is more about bending your torso than your knees. Bending your torso does not take nearly as much effort as bending your knees.

Here is an example of how you were supposed to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UCNpPcMsPM

Your so called example is a perfect example of the game not working, because, they guy in the backgrounds constantly says that the guy playing is very bad at this game, though he plays like the game is intended to be played.

Here is btw. me playing Kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWL1uhDduk
Believe me, if the track had more curves I probably wouldn't be able to finish the track. At least pushing forward worked. The guy before me couldn't even get through the select screen. I guess Kinect is so advanced it chooses the player it wants to play with. ^^

droppingpenny:

Your so called example is a perfect example of the game not working, because, they guy in the backgrounds constantly says that the guy playing is very bad at this game, though he plays like the game is intended to be played.

Here is btw. me playing Kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWL1uhDduk
Believe me, if the track had more curves I probably wouldn't be able to finish the track. At least pushing forward worked. The guy before me couldn't even get through the select screen. I guess Kinect is so advanced it chooses the player it wants to play with. ^^

The guy I posted was doing badly because he was not using his poles to accelerate at all.

I find it interesting that you chose not to post the actual video of you playing the game initially because it does not look bad. Also what's your reaction to seeing other people play the game and having such good results like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDc2KtIn420

As far as the select screen. Ubisoft Italy says that the menus and select screens are all just placeholder right now, so I wouldn't judge that stuff. The game is only 60% complete.

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