Mafia 2 Producer Apologizes for "Gay Space Marine" Comment

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I didn't find the comment offensive, though I still don't think he should have made it. Trying to mock something doesn't validate your point, it just makes you sound like an idiot.

To me, and this will take some explaining, it's almost as tho 'gay' and 'gay' are two entirely seperate words!

When someone says, as before, 'I just got fired' 'oh that's so gay', in no way are they saying that to be fired is in any way a homosexual trait, and (here's where my argument is admittedly on shaky ground), apart from the actual use of the word, has no connections to being gay at all. Sure it's a silly word to use, for a wide range of negative things, like 'bad, weak, wrong' etc, but its very rare that it's meant as an anti gay comment.

To me it's not that far away from saying 'a black mark on your record' is racist. I'm sure everyone knows when it's meant as 'bad' and when it's meant as 'attracted to the same sex as yourself'.

Just to destroy my argument even further, I've posted this in a thread where he actually was linking gay to 'homoerotic overtones', then saying it's bad.

In short, yes, he's a dummy and should choose his words more carefully, BUT, in most cases, I don't think saying for instance, 'itunes is so gay, it won't update my podcast folder!' is homophobic.

EDIT: I hope I don't get modded, I feel like I'm virtually trolling and flaming myself in a single post, but there's an opinion in there somewhere!

What kind of world are we living in where you can't say "gay" in a offhand way without someone having a cry?

He didn't mean anything by it, and to be honest, he has a point.

It's not like it was a personal or hateful attack. People just need to stop nitpicking over political correctness. Suck it up, fairies.

He didn't need to apologize for being offensive, he needed to apologize for being a hypocrite, perhaps. A guy is responsible for something as tired as a mafia-based storyline complaining about how there's not enough originality in games these days? And what's funny is that actual gay space marines -would- be something different.

It was a dumb remark no matter how you slice it and at least coming out and saying so was a step in the right direction, though he didn't really address the core of the problem most people had with his statement. I do have to laugh about all the false bravado from some of the posters here who say you shouldn't ever apologize for something you've said. I've know people like that, who claim they're 'too honest' or that they 'tell it like it is'. I generally consider them 'goddamned intolerable'.

Scobie:
Yes, he could have chosen his words better. On the other hand, he shouldn't have to. It was obvious what he meant. People should have worked out what his intention was before jumping straight to getting offended and huffy. And develop some thicker skins while they're at it.

You took the words right out of my mouth. People need to harden the fuck up and learn to take a joke.

Before the apology I'd mis-read his quote. I thought he said grey space marines, talking about gritty colour schemes.

I would have claimed I was mis heard and damn saying sorry. Lighten up people.

This is pathetic.

I have gay friends who use the word "gay" to mean other things all the time, some people are just looking for reasons to get offended tbh, it's not like he said "these flaming homosexual faggot marines should go die in a fire" or something.

So are Space Marines offended because he called them gay? Or are gays offended because he associated them with Space Marines?

Still, his point is valid.

He should apologize for it. He didn't mean "gay," he meant "hyper closeted, clearly over compensating space marines." If they were actually out, I think they'd be much less dour.

One must aim for accuracy when speaking, after all. Harrumph.

I don't see how he was insulting homosexual people...a lot of those space marines -are- gay.
There's an old trope that exists (for a reason) about 'roided out, over aggressive men; something about either compensating for being "in the closet", or having a severe oedipus complex.

He had to apologize for that comment?

How gay.

People do realise that Yahtzee has said, to effect, the very same thing in both (I think) his reviews of the Gears of Wars games, right?
Did he have to apologize too?

People have to read between the lines, it's obvious he didn't mean it litterally

Sebenko:
Well that's not a very appropriate image. 40K space marines are the MANLIEST MEHREENS EVER. They're not interested in men or women, just crushing the enemies of the EMPRA.

Also, THIS^

I know of agree with the comment (enought halo clones already) but it was in extreamly poor taste.

gellert1984:
Whats wrong with lively and colourful space marines?

I don't get this either. What the hell is wrong with using the word "gay"? Gay is a normal word to describe happiness, colorfulness or homosexuals.
This is from the article at Gaygamer:

I do have an issue with the way he said what he said, but it's clear he was trying to be witty, and simply failed. And of course, we're the only audience that's really going to have a problem with his statement.

So it's okay for you to call your site GayGamer, but it's NOT OK for someone to say "gay space marines"? I mean, seriously??? WTF?

I would get it if he had said "faggot space marines" or something like that, but how is "gay space marines" in any way insulting?

If something goes on my nerves, it's this kind of nick-picky political correctness. Soon people won't be able to express any opinion because someone will always be offended. Jesus.

Vault Citizen:
I'm going to need someone to help me out here, why is what he said so offensive to x,y and z?

He called video game characters "gay space marines"

Homosexuals were offended because they were associated to horrible writing.

What the problem with what he said? I say gay all the time, and it has nothing to do with homosexuals. See South Park.

He should have stuck with it.

His point was muddled by the fact that he made another Italian immigrants are mobsters 3rd person cover shooter game. The whole gay comment was just icing on the big muddle cake he baked.

Don't Poke My Bobcat:
Sad, his main point has been lost amidst knee jerk offendees.

PC culture 'wins' again.

He should've picked better words instead of sounding like a fucking homophobe, full-stop. In an era where we can't even repeal DADT, people throwing the word "gay" around as a derogatory slur piss me off to no end.

I'm not a fan of Politically Correct language, but I am sick of the way the word gay is used. Yes I get it he was being satirical. But on the other hand there are people who will take it out of context.

I could kinda see how that was wrong. I know what he meant and obviously wasnt attacking homosexuals but then again, gays get enough shit as is from governments and religious groups, the way that gay has become a genral term to insult somthing doesnt help much

Scobie:
Yes, he could have chosen his words better. On the other hand, he shouldn't have to. It was obvious what he meant. People should have worked out what his intention was before jumping straight to getting offended and huffy. And develop some thicker skins while they're at it.

Sadly that would require people to grow up and use their brains for once instead of being so simple-mindedly fixed on their own opinions and more open-minded to other people's views but there I go on my journey across Dream land.

I perfectly understood what he ment by the comment and knew why he said me as it makes a very good point in today's market place. Some people just get offended way to easily.

-M

Generic_Dave:
So are Space Marines offended because he called them gay? Or are gays offended because he associated them with Space Marines?

Still, his point is valid.

I wanna sig that.

Did his comment really muddy the waters?

Taken absolutely literally, he asserted that the problem with video games was the proliferation of marines who travel in space rather than over water, and said marines engage in an alternate sexual lifestyle. Sure, I could also interpret the statement wherein the word "gay" is assumed to be a pejorative, in which case the comment becomes that video games have a problem with the proliferation of lame, boring or stupid marines who travel through space rather than over water.

Either interpretation makes a valid point I'd say. The bromance is indeed strong with many of those marines so I might interpret them as possibly being homosexual. They are also often entirely interchangeable characters which means I could easily call them "lame" or "rubbish" or "boring" or any of the other pejorative interpretations of the word gay.

And, while I can understand why people might get mad (the word gay is being used as a cudgel in either case), it strikes me as strange that we so rarely apply such arbitrary interpretation of language. The word space, for example, does not necessarily imply that area outside the earth's ionosphere and can instead refer to a basic dimensional concept. Taken to the illogical extreme, I could interpret his statement to mean something along the lines of: the problem with video games is the proliferation of lame water areas, a dig at the regular inclusion of bodies of water in many video games.

But, I don't do that because I have this amazing capacity to critically read and don't just assign arbitrary meanings to words; instead, I use the context in which the words exist to determine what the writer or speaker might have meant to say.

The word "gay" has become so common in daily language that it honestly slipped my "offensive" radar for a minute. Then I remembered we live in a world where selective and convenient political correctness is the plaything of the fragile-minded.

There certainly is a point to be made about how games tend to follow a similar path after one's initial success, as is the case of space marines or realistic shooters. His criticizing of the over-reliance upon space marines is a valid point, but it is somewhat undermined considering he made an Italian-American Mafia game that appears to take the notes off of every other Mafia movie or game.

He may also have been noting the shallow and predictable characterization of space marine characters. Often enough though, this critique comes off as puerile by lumping most space marine or even generally masculine characters as priapic gym-zealots. He makes it out like there are so many grievous offenders, but off the top of my head Gears of War is the closest "bromance" I can think of.

Pfffttt, I don't see the problem, I like Gears of War.

...... :D

The biggest problem the video game industry faces at the moment is not "gay space marines." It's charging you DLC prices for content already on the disc. Ya know, kinda what they did in Mafia 2.

Vault Citizen:
I'm going to need someone to help me out here, why is what he said so offensive to x,y and z?

While it's clear what he meant, wrong stage to make it on.

Pretty well covered by people. It's offensive to Halo fans who could take it as being called 'gay'. It was offensive to homosexuals because a term for what they are is used in a derogatory manner, even if it's playful it still isn't being used in the best light possible.
Also for the brave space marines defending our planet from enemies we could only imagine. Even the gay ones who are hiding who they are to serve and protect their fellow humankind might take offense that who they are is being used to diminish a thought and ideal held by others.
Also the guy came off sounding like a little whiny prick just cuz his game didn't equal the sales of another. An ounce of professionalism please.

The Austin:
Pfffttt, I don't see the problem, I like Gears of War.

...... :D

I do as well. There really isn't even much to support "bromance" for that game, either. The only big emotional thing I can recall from the last game was Dom and his wife, so that can't count ha ha. In fact, they're not even in space, either...

I dunno, maybe he was going "Freudian?" :P

AceDiamond:

He should've picked better words instead of sounding like a fucking homophobe, full-stop. In an era where we can't even repeal DADT, people throwing the word "gay" around as a derogatory slur piss me off to no end.

I'm not a fan of Politically Correct language, but I am sick of the way the word gay is used. Yes I get it he was being satirical. But on the other hand there are people who will take it out of context.

This is what I mean about knee jerk, taking offence to something before context is applied.

Why must he accomodate for people with intelligence deficit? Its the same reason why saying 'black' immediately pricks people's ears up, regardless of what you were talking about. In the desire to not offend anyone we're turning our culture into molly cuddled toddlers and that is what annoys me.

The collective intelligence (read: not the average, collective. It is a separate definition) is plummeting because everyone is so desperate to cover their arseholes over certain aspects of society. Perhaps I should remove my last metaphor because it could be construed as homophobic?

He meant as a describing word. Many duos in videogames do behave in a gay manner, and that is offensive to point it out? Anyone that found it offensive needs to reallign their priorities in my opinion.

What I would actually focus on is that he's a hypocrite. Just because his game is full of different popular archetypes doesn't give him the right to sit in an ivory tower and cast judgment.

Gralian:

I suppose it doesn't make it any less true. It's the 300 dilemma all over again. Oh sure, people like the almighty strong naked SPARTAAA moments that make manly men feel masculine, but that doesn't stop it from being incredibly homoerotic.

Kind of off topic, but the ancient gGeeks embraced homosexuality quite openly, so I don't really see 300 being homoerotic as anything surprising. The Athenians even had an entirely gay regiment in their army, with the idea that you would fight more effectively beside your loved ones - it worked too!

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