Nintendo's 3DS Specs Too Low for Epic's Unreal Engine

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Bah, so much for an engine... I really don't care if it doesn't work on the 3DS or if an iPhone is better than the 3DS. In the end, nobody will give it a shit. It's good for comparisons and the e-peen factor, but really, IF Epic could get the UE3 working on the 3DS, would he even bother to release an Unreal Tournament on the 3DS? (that would be awesome...)

Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.

Oh, no. Nintendo's handheld system is underpowered compared to other pieces of machinery! It's going to be just as bad as all their previous systems!

...Oh, wait. That was never bad at all.

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.

Just because one company has said the 3DS won't be running their engine, doesn't mean that all of a sudden it's underpowered. Whether or not Epic choose to release anything on the DS, there's already a slew of absolutely stunning looking games coming out for the 3DS. At E3, people were talking about the graphics more than they were talking about the 3D.

Hell, the fact that they're re-releasing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, arguably the most graphically impressive game of the previous console generation, on a fucking handheld, is enough proof that the 3DS isn't punching under its weight.

And let's not forget that for all the tech comparisons between the two, both the iPhone and the 3DS have screens about 4 inches wide. Meaning that differences in graphics are going to be absolutely negligible, if even discernable. Don't believe me? Go and watch two youtube videos, one of a game running on a 360, one of the same game running on a PS3. And make sure the video is in tiny window mode. Then lecture me about the difference in graphics between the two systems. Graphical tweaks and nudges mean fuck-all when everything is getting relayed through a screen the size of a bourbon biscuit.

Lastly while you may see the DS's touchscreen as a gimmick, I and plenty of others see it as the only inroad made so far in making FPS games playable on a handheld. God only knows it works better than the PSP's control layout. And as for the 3D, the fact that it's both glasses free and optional, makes it both a technical wonder, and also impossible for you guys to bitch about. Don't like it? Then switch the slider to 'OFF'...

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
snip
And let's not forget that for all the tech comparisons between the two, both the iPhone and the 3DS have screens about 4 inches wide. Meaning that differences in graphics are going to be absolutely negligible, if even discernable. Don't believe me? Go and watch two youtube videos, one of a game running on a 360, one of the same game running on a PS3. And make sure the video is in tiny window mode. Then lecture me about the difference in graphics between the two systems. Graphical tweaks and nudges mean fuck-all when everything is getting relayed through a screen the size of a bourbon biscuit.

screen resolution and tech is much better on phones though IIRC, things like samsungs superamoled displays, iphone retina display or even an evos stomp on 3ds. EX iphones 960-by-640 vs 3ds800×240 pixels (400×240 pixels per eye) While the 3ds isn't gonna look bad per say, its still not going to be as sharp, or vivid like a modern phone(especially since you have to split the image on the 3ds if its like other 3d tech i've seen giving you only 400x240 vs 960x640).

Nevyrmoore:

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.

Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.

thats too bad, a handheld that can competently play retro-shooters would be amazing.

Epic could always put UT2004 on 3DS

Uhhh, from what I heard, the iPhone 4 is ~$700 with no contract...and the 3DS is ~$250. If they sold the 3DS for that price, I'm pretty sure the hardware would be miles higher.

What?!! A Nintendo console has inferior graphics to technology that's already been released?!! When has THAT ever happened before?

YeahNo:
Uhhh, from what I heard, the iPhone 4 is ~$700 with no contract...and the 3DS is ~$250. If they sold the 3DS for that price, I'm pretty sure the hardware would be miles higher.

An iPod touch (same hardware as an iPhone 4) is $230.

aaaaaDisregard:

Dioxide20:

Lost In The Void:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player

Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?

You seem so in love with a term "next-gen" without actually understanding what it means. Next generation doesn't really have to be more powerful than competitors - it just has to be more powerful than previous iteration (like Nintendo DS).
The thing is DS's hardware was horribly outdated to begin with, and now 3DS contains something not much faster than PSP. It's probably on par with iPhone 3GS, but with no programmable shading support and 4 times less RAM. This means less memory for textures and geometry and also simple lighting (in comparison with what can be achieved on iPhone 3GS).

Of course, a gaming console like 3DS has an advantage of fixed hardware (not like iPhone/iPod with a crapload of generations and different specs) and very little overhead due to simple OS and thin APIs, so it'll have games like nothing on the iPhone 3GS in terms of visuals. And of course these games will be much more advanced, "big" and proper due to big budgets (and higher price of "real" games, unlike iPhone's cheap apps) and other factors.
But still, hardware is weak in comparison with iPhone 4, and nothing can be done about it - there's simply no point in porting Unreal Engine 3 to 3DS, because there won't be direct game ports from home consoles there (I damned hope so).

Wrong, the 3DS features fully programmable shader architecture. Second, the 3DS' dual core CPU may not have a very high clock speed, but you can bet your ass that the CPU is a lot more advanced than what you will find in a PSP.

I think the 3D technology isn't well-developed enough, thus the higher price, but I'm pretty much sold over the 3DS. It has Augmented Reality, and some pretty interesting games could be developed. Maybe it's because of all the new features, Nintendo can't develop a powerful handheld. Of all the games I've played on my iPhone, no matter how great the graphics, they aren't as fun as the games I've played on my DS Lite.

Lost In The Void:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player

I don't see why. They can't outpreform a glorified Blu Ray player. *rimshot*

Xanthious:

Nevyrmoore:

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.

Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.

If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.

It will work. IT WILL.

JUMBO PALACE:
What?!! A Nintendo console has inferior graphics to technology that's already been released?!! When has THAT ever happened before?

Thank You.

Seriously people need to realize that smartphones are actually getting good from portable gaming. The 3DS is essentially an unmarketable device that runs on the hopes that 3D gaming will take off immensely.

I'm not getting hyped up about Nintendo products anymore. Last time I did that I bought a Wii and 4 games for it. Then sold it 8 months later. I'm not going to let myself get set up for disappointment again.

I don't know why the iPhone 4 being more powerful than the 3DS is so surprising to people. These are probably the same people who STILL can't believe it's not butter...

The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.

Electrogecko:
If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.

Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.

Yep, it's been since 2001 that Nintendo has released anything that could stand on it's own merits and not need some clever yet pointless twist to it to make people look away from it's obvious shortcomings. Prior to that, the SNES was their last successful console.

I guess the moral of it all is that there is simply no point in making games for actual gamers when there is so much more money in making games for grade school children and soccer moms.

BlackWidower:
The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. This is Nintendo we are talking about. This is the same company that didn't bother to using optical discs until the after the freaking new millenium. Who needs to worry about silly things like technical capabilities when they can just as easily make the portable gaming version of a "Magic Eye" book. Heck that cheap optical illusion has to give them a pass on being at least a 5 or more years out of date on everything else after all.

Xanthious:

Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.

Don't use people in your analogies, it just makes you come off as quite shallow to be honest and it didn't help your point. Mostly because it's a false analogy, low graphics doesn't mean an ugly game. It's about the visual style after that. Some managed it on the DS, others ended up looking pretty disgraceful.

Besides at a certain point high graphics will be wasted on such a small device, you need a bigger screen to get the finer details. I'm not saying it couldn't have done a little better in the graphics department though. It's just hasn't been Nintendo's goal for a while, and to be honest It's probably a good thing they haven't gone in that direction, particularly with their hand held. There's already a lot of competition in that area and they wish to stand out.

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Maybe five or six years from now Nintendo will put out something on par with the 2 year old devices of today. Sure it will be terribly behind the times yet again but Im sure you will be able to control it using a hamster or your tongue or maybe it will have the first ever "smell-o-vision". I miss the Nintendo of the early 90s that didn't hide behind gimmicks to get their systems over and focused on quality gaming.

What?

You're pointing out the gimmicks and lack of state of the art hardware then you finish by complaining about quality gaming...

Are you the type who believes greater graphics is what makes a game? Or have you just been exclusively nit-picking at shovel ware games because it's convenient for your system bashing?

So they made it for the iPhone instead? Come on, nintendo, just mail them a freaking 3DS!

Xanthious:
Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time

Stopped reading. The first two PlayStations were the weakest in their respective generations in terms of grunt. If you're gonna complain about power of consoles, then get yer facts right.

People who think that Unreal are talking bs because
-the engine is old
-the handheld is "next gen"
-an iphone can run the engine

need to read the comments from everyone who has linked you sources of what an iphone is actually made up of. The newest itteration of the iphone is more powerful than the desktop computer I used to have no more than about 10 years ago (I admit it wasn't a good computer).

Smart phones are absolute powerhouses in terms of their hardware, because they're being used for a multitude of applications. The 3DS is more powerful than current handhelds, but thats still not enough.

Nintendos hardware has never ever been that high on the spec sheets and they still manage to do ok.

Thanks to everyone that linked the difference in specs and gave a little tech savvy talk on them to save me doing it.

I think it's actually harder than most people are willing to admit to compare the performance of what I understand to be a single processor running at a higher frequency (the iPhone) vs. two processors working in tandem at a lower one (the 3DS.) Even if they were exactly identical architecture, which they're not.

That said, and recognizing that again Intel's Pentium line is not the same as the chips that Nintendo is using on the 3DS, I think it's worth noting that the original "Unreal Tournament"'s recommended specs called for a 266 MHz Pentium II and 64 MB of RAM. And that was to run the game at significantly higher resolutions than the 3DS would be called upon to deliver.

I don't know about Rein's alleged "anti-Nintendo comments". But it does suggest to me that while it's possible that the 3DS would find it difficult to crank out the version of the Unreal Engine that Epic (or some factions therein) would like to show off, it may well simply be that Epic's brass simply isn't interested in making the attempt. That the 3DS isn't capable of delivering any version of the Unreal engine at all doesn't sound right.

Well, that tears it then - the 3DS can't count on graphics to be it's selling-point. What will Nintendo possibly sell it on, now - exclusivity for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Smash Bros. and StarFox games? How can a system live on just THAT!!?? ;)

In all seriousness, while it's theoretically interesting to see Epic wanting to push the handheld envelope - but what's the logic in completely writing-off what's almost-certainly going to be the handheld that actually matters? Let's be frank about this - smartphones aren't universal or stable enough to be serious gaming platforms at this juncture, and if the PSP2 really is just a more muscular PSP with a phone built in it's probably going to mirror it's predecessor in not being worth much outside of a handful of titles that only Japan really cares about.

So what's Epic's "angle" here, exactly? Are they gambling that they're going to make the game that "makes" smartphone-gaming or the PSP2? Because if they don't have a plan, they're basically taking the equivalent position of a musician who decides to only record his music at a frequency that human beings haven't evolved to hear yet.

Zer_:

Wrong, the 3DS features fully programmable shader architecture. Second, the 3DS' dual core CPU may not have a very high clock speed, but you can bet your ass that the CPU is a lot more advanced than what you will find in a PSP.

I can bet your ass it is not. PSP got MIPS architetecture CPU with variable 1-333MHz clock speed, 16/16KB cashes, integrated vector FPU with 2.6GFlops performance plus the second DSP core (video/audio acceleration, effect processing), all coupled with 128-bit memory bus at 2.6 Gbit/s. Look for precious details on http://ps2dev.org/. Overall, it's quite fast and directed specifically for gaming console. And by the way, pixel fillrate of integrated graphics chip is 664MPix/s with 33MPolys/s geometry performance.

For 3DS's supposed CPU go see
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Feature_Comparison:_ARM_926,_1136_and_Cortex-A8
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php

It is clearly not "a lot more advanced". Faster, but not by incredible amount. 3DS graphics is much better than PSP one (not in terms of raw performance, but rather capability-wise. Plus more eDRAM), but CPU isn't. And iPhone's Cortex wipes the floor clean with both.

I don't get it...
Its just an engine right, i mean its what you do with it that uses resources. i mean sure a game modeling the Finnish coast on a 1-1 scale renderd at 32000 x 2170 using dx 12, with real time ray tracing, particle physics and ant-aliasing x 1000 is going to be a little bit of a resourse hog. Even though the engine may be capable of it, it doesn't mean it has to be implented.

If the engine cant run on a 200Mhz system without even Modling anything in any dimensons or res should i be worried about what it is capable of?

I'm pretty confident that the engine can run on the 3ds, though maybe not with the same features as the i phone. Its seems strange to just dismiss it.

Can people also start remembering, the Unreal Engine isnt used just to make FPS games. Yes thats probably it's primary application, but it can run other genres succesfully.

Whatever happened the the N64 kicking the Playstation's ASS on the technology front hmm?

That would be awesome if it could then you could play gears of war on the loo. :D

the iphone 4 is actually pretty powerful, and has a ridiculously high resolution. Still, i call bullshit, just sounds like epic is pissed off! LOL!

MovieBob:
Well, that tears it then - the 3DS can't count on graphics to be it's selling-point. What will Nintendo possibly sell it on, now - exclusivity for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Smash Bros. and StarFox games? How can a system live on just THAT!!?? ;)

In all seriousness, while it's theoretically interesting to see Epic wanting to push the handheld envelope - but what's the logic in completely writing-off what's almost-certainly going to be the handheld that actually matters? Let's be frank about this - smartphones aren't universal or stable enough to be serious gaming platforms at this juncture, and if the PSP2 really is just a more muscular PSP with a phone built in it's probably going to mirror it's predecessor in not being worth much outside of a handful of titles that only Japan really cares about.

So what's Epic's "angle" here, exactly? Are they gambling that they're going to make the game that "makes" smartphone-gaming or the PSP2? Because if they don't have a plan, they're basically taking the equivalent position of a musician who decides to only record his music at a frequency that human beings haven't evolved to hear yet.

Dude you forgot KID FU***** ICARUS

"It's below our [minimum specifications], from what we can tell. We don't have a 3DS, so there's no way for us to verify that," Rein said. "Everything we've been led to believe is that it's below our min-spec. You couldn't do a game that looks like [Epic Citadel] on it, for example."

"We really don't know enough about it to make a formal comment, but I think if they considered that our engine would be good on it, they would have probably talked to us about it,"

Thats not a write off, they didn't even say they wouldn't target the platform in some fashion, fact is unless Nintendo gives you the all clear you can't develop for the system anyway, Hell even SCEE (Sony Computer Entertainment Europe) up in london has a functioning 3DS Devkit.

Somehow I think Nintendo just isn't interested in Epic's business

'nuff said.

Dioxide20:

Lost In The Void:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player

Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?

Dedicated, next-generation gaming platform?

We're talking about the 3DS, right?

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