Nintendo's 3DS Specs Too Low for Epic's Unreal Engine

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UT3 can't even run properly on my old P4 3.2GHz on the lowest settings. I know it's an old machine, but... what the... lowest settings?! lagging all over the place?! Same with all recent UE games. Whatever they're doing, they're doing it wrong.

Xanthious:
As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.

Newsflash: Those phones are also battery hogs. The only prominent smartphone on the market with a battery life equivalent to what the 3DS is trying to manage is the Nokia E72, which has no 3D graphics processing capability and a small 320x240 screen.

So is Nintendo always gonna be graphically one step backwards while being technologically one step forward?

wtf. y cant they just be better all around? Grr Nintendo!

and Quit jumping the gun EPIC :P

First: why does this matter. So a platform with no tactile feedback in terms of its controls can run the unreal engine. Big fucking whoop. They had to code the engine to run on it didn't they?

Second: Without a DS demo kit in their hands, how the fuck does Epic even know it won't run? Answer, they don't.

Conclusion: Epic, put up or shut up. Also Mark Rein needs to not run his mouth so much...hell everybody at Epic could do with a little bit of self-control in regards to spouting off just about whatever they feel like.

Side Note: Are we seriously going to have the "hurf durf iPhone bettar than 3DS cuz tech specs" argument in this thread as well? Are we? I honestly think at this point it's a bit unfair to look at spec sheets and declare one is clearly superior to the other when

A) The iPhone is not a dedicated gaming console and thus needs to have more theoretical power in regards to things like its OS, media capabilities, etc.
B) the 3DS isn't out yet
and
C) Nobody here has even touched a 3DS so how can they make that kind of judgement.

Well, nopw we have a full grasp as to what it can, and cannot handle - which, is apparantly not alot if it cannot handle the Unreal Engine

I think the iPhone could, couldnt it?

Oh well. While a game being pretty isn't a bad thing, I'm not loosing sleep over it. Besides, I've heard the 3DS's exact capabilities are a little weird depending on using both screens and 3D and what not.

That doesn't surprise me, since the Nintendo 3DS has as much VRAM as a graphics card from 1994.

I'm a bit lost here...

Exactly which Unreal Engine are we talking about?

Or do these guys take the "Never Look Back" approach to making games?

It is funny how after three sides of thread in wich numeros Commenters spoke and wrote about the power of Iphone compared to the 3DS still ask: "Doh!? Isn't the 3DS better than a phone? Duh!?"

That clearly shows that some are to lazy to read and just senselessly throw some words into a empty field cause it's obviously there to be filled. X-P

felixader:
It is funny how after three sides of thread in wich numeros Commenters spoke and wrote about the power of Iphone compared to the 3DS still ask: "Doh!? Isn't the 3DS better than a phone? Duh!?"

That clearly shows that some are to lazy to read and just senselessly throw some words into a empty field cause it's obviously there to be filled. X-P

And they still can't believe it's not butter either.

Judgement101:

Lost In The Void:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player

Yes, but the DS is a glorified iPod Touch.

but the ds came out way befor the ipod touch. did nintendo get a DeLorean to bring back an ipod touch only to disrupt the space time continueum and create the greatness that is the ds.

Jaredin:
Well, nopw we have a full grasp as to what it can, and cannot handle - which, is apparantly not alot if it cannot handle the Unreal Engine

I think the iPhone could, couldnt it?

The 3DS could probably handle iD Tech 5, if iD made a port of it.

I am honestly astounded at the replies people are posting here. The current iteration of the Unreal Engine was made to be used by PCs, PS3s and 360s (ie, heavy duty machines with tons of processing power), and has powered games such as Arkham Asylum and Gears Of War which, even if you can't stand the art direction (which I can't), is one of the most technically impressive games out there. In short, it's the kind of engine designed to make lesser processors cry out in pain. By some kind of miracle, Epic managed to programme a version of it for iPod ( in all likelihood, with severe cutbacks and compromises in order to make it work on such a small system), and now people are bitching that the 3DS is graphically behind the times?

Jesus, when did we all start expecting handhelds to outperform consoles and PCs?!? The 3DS is less than the size of a paperback novella! It has a screen as big as a couple of boxes of matches! And yet they've got MGS3 playing on it, and it looks fucking amazing. And it's going to be in glasses-free 3D!

Honestly, sometimes I despair at the ingratitude which seems to pervade gamedom. Less than ten years ago, hand held games were still looking like this. People were happy then, and should be damn fucking happy now. If you'd told me 7 or 8 years ago that I'd be able to one day play Resident Evil or Ocarina of Time on a Gameboy, I'd have laughed in your face. Now I can't wait to get a 3DS, get Chaos Theory, and get some amazing portable kick-ass going (on a console with a battery life of more than 20 minutes to boot).

aaaaaDisregard:
I can bet your ass it is not. PSP got MIPS architetecture CPU with variable 1-333MHz clock speed, 16/16KB cashes, integrated vector FPU with 2.6GFlops performance plus the second DSP core (video/audio acceleration, effect processing), all coupled with 128-bit memory bus at 2.6 Gbit/s. Look for precious details on http://ps2dev.org/. Overall, it's quite fast and directed specifically for gaming console. And by the way, pixel fillrate of integrated graphics chip is 664MPix/s with 33MPolys/s geometry performance.

For 3DS's supposed CPU go see
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Feature_Comparison:_ARM_926,_1136_and_Cortex-A8
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php

It is clearly not "a lot more advanced". Faster, but not by incredible amount. 3DS graphics is much better than PSP one (not in terms of raw performance, but rather capability-wise. Plus more eDRAM), but CPU isn't. And iPhone's Cortex wipes the floor clean with both.

While it's good you know how to look at and compare postive integers with similar units, you fall into a fairly common trap of assuming that the numbers are equivalent.

First off, remember that while the R4000 CPU in the PSP can hit 333MHz, it's intentionally clocked at 222 because of power and heat.

Second, you would do well to remember that comparing raw numbers like CPU clock and GPU poly rendering becomes highly misleading even between devices in the same generation. I can't be the only one who remembers how Pentium 4s stacked up against Athlons with much lower core clocks. In this particular case, the R4000 design is from the early 90s (these things were in SGI's Indy for crying out loud). While the R4000 does feature a superscalar design, barrel-shifter, and single-clock execution (for everything that isn't division or SqRt); it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade. New approaches to instruction parallelism, OOE, improvements to pipelining, multiple ISA revisions.... as you can see, it's hardly a simple apples to apples comparison. And the 3DS has two of these.

Further, The Pica200 is much more powerful than their old marketing pdf would indicate. The updated specs place it at around 400Mps fill and 40Mt at 100MHz.[1] At 200MHz (nominally what Nintendo is packing), it might even best the PS2 (which was difficult to program, but really was a poly-pushing monster. Raw performance only exceeded by the Gamecube, as I recall) and certainly towers over the PSP.

You are, however, correct that the Cortex-A8 is a brilliant piece of kit.

jamesworkshop:

Somehow I think Nintendo just isn't interested in Epic's business

Does Epic make games? Rarely. Does Epic make games worth playing? Not since 1999. That might have something to do with it. :/

dochmbi:
That doesn't surprise me, since the Nintendo 3DS has as much VRAM as a graphics card from 1994.

Note the screen scale. Much smaller framebuffer, lower texture resolution, likely a compressed colour space to save bits (555 like the DS?). Also, it manages to do everything much much faster than the Mach-series VGA cards.... ;)

[1] http://people.csail.mit.edu/kapu/EG_08/Mobile3D_EG08.pdf

Cassita:

Dioxide20:

Lost In The Void:
That slightly confuses me, shouldn't a console be able to outpreform a glorified MP3 player

Same...

An iPod can play it, but a dedicated, nextgen gaming platform cannot?

Dedicated, next-generation gaming platform?

We're talking about the 3DS, right?

I'm not saying that it was going to be amazing, just more focused on gaming rather then everything the iPod does.

WyattEpp:

While it's good you know how to look at and compare postive integers with similar units, you fall into a fairly common trap of assuming that the numbers are equivalent.

First off, remember that while the R4000 CPU in the PSP can hit 333MHz, it's intentionally clocked at 222 because of power and heat.

Second, you would do well to remember that comparing raw numbers like CPU clock and GPU poly rendering becomes highly misleading even between devices in the same generation. I can't be the only one who remembers how Pentium 4s stacked up against Athlons with much lower core clocks. In this particular case, the R4000 design is from the early 90s (these things were in SGI's Indy for crying out loud). While the R4000 does feature a superscalar design, barrel-shifter, and single-clock execution (for everything that isn't division or SqRt); it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade. New approaches to instruction parallelism, OOE, improvements to pipelining, multiple ISA revisions.... as you can see, it's hardly a simple apples to apples comparison. And the 3DS has two of these.

Further, The Pica200 is much more powerful than their old marketing pdf would indicate. The updated specs place it at around 400Mps fill and 40Mt at 100MHz.[1] At 200MHz (nominally what Nintendo is packing), it might even best the PS2 (which was difficult to program, but really was a poly-pushing monster. Raw performance only exceeded by the Gamecube, as I recall) and certainly towers over the PSP.

"it unfortunately doesn't include many of the common innovations found in the intervening decade... OOE"
Oh my god, you've mentioned out of order execution*facepalm*.
Since when exactly does ARMv6 support this magnificent feature? As far as I know even X360's and PS3's PowerPC processors don't possess its power. And so you know, ARMv6 is a scalar architecture without those pretty NEON instructions. Meanwhile PSP has vector FPU in addition to regular FPU.

While comparing "postive integers with similar units" can be deceptive, it certainly gives rough estimate of power and functionality.
While you have good enough memory to remember AMD's K7 architecture and its edge over Netburst, you are too fast to forget about Athlon XP's 3 FPU pipelines and shorter execution pipeline.

You also forget that this funny MIPS R4000 was quite advanced for the beginning of 90s - I'd say it was much more advanced than Intel 80486, which is about the same level of complexity with ARMv6 CPUs like the one supposedly installed in Nintendo 3DS.

And the last one - you're clearly far from being very knowledgeable about PSP hardware - otherwise you'd know that its CPU can reach 333MHz with updated firmware which was released alongside God Of War - Chains Of Olympus.

As for GPU - I didn't imply it was advanced - 3DS's one is much better, especially in terms of capabilities, but it still isn't magnitudes better. Not very impressive, considering that PSP will celebrate its 6th anniversary soon.

Xanthious:

Electrogecko:
If touch control is a gimmick than buttons sure as hell are a gimmick. If 3d is a gimmick than HD is too. Nintendo makes games that are fun- not porno's for tech junkies.

Saying Nintendo makes "fun" games to dismiss how dreadfully behind the times their systems are is akin to saying that a fat and ugly girl has "a great personality". Even if it is true it does nothing to negate the fact that she is still fat and ugly the same as it does nothing to change that Nintendo hasn't released a console or handheld system that hasn't relied on a cheap to get over and mask that they are at least five to ten years out of date since the GBA in 2001.

Yep, it's been since 2001 that Nintendo has released anything that could stand on it's own merits and not need some clever yet pointless twist to it to make people look away from it's obvious shortcomings. Prior to that, the SNES was their last successful console.

I guess the moral of it all is that there is simply no point in making games for actual gamers when there is so much more money in making games for grade school children and soccer moms.

BlackWidower:
The Unreal Engine? The over a decade old Unreal Engine can't run on the 3DS? Why do I find that hard to swallow?

If you're talking Unreal 2 or 3 Engine then I believe you, but the original Unreal Engine? It makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. This is Nintendo we are talking about. This is the same company that didn't bother to using optical discs until the after the freaking new millenium. Who needs to worry about silly things like technical capabilities when they can just as easily make the portable gaming version of a "Magic Eye" book. Heck that cheap optical illusion has to give them a pass on being at least a 5 or more years out of date on everything else after all.

Congrats. You just re-iterated the exact same post as last time. Let me lay it out for you in a language you can understand. THE SPECS OF A CONSOLE MEAN NOTHING. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE SOFTWARE...YOU KNOW?....THE GAMES!!!...It's incredible how people like you ignore the fact that almost every single Nintendo game ever made is better than anything I've seen on 360 minus Portal. They actually make games that are CREATIVE and (god-forbid) have COLOR. They don't feel the need to impress those like you who are too shallow to look past a game's graphics and see what actually makes it unique and FUN. And once again, saying that touchscreen control is "cheap and pointless" is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And anybody who denies that motion control is better for certain software (RPG's, RTS', point and click, internet browser...basically anything that has menu screens) is also either incredibly stupid/uneducated. And 3d...3d will add to the medium about 10x more than HD ever did. You'd honestly rather your screen look like a photo instead of a window into your gaming world (probably all sports sims and shooters) through which you can see for miles into the distance? (look up sterioscopic vision and educate yourself...lol u think it's akin to a "Magic Eye" book...lmao you're ignorant on the subject your complaining about...the ultimate form of immaturity)
Everything you've said so far indicates that you're shallow, conservative, self-conscious and insecure, or completely ignorant. Stop living in the past.

just use the engine on the upcoming psp2

Xanthious:
Wall of Text, I choose you. Paragraphs are a good thing fella. However I must say TLDR sadly. However all the caps make me wonder, why so angry bro?

This is the first time I've ever modified a quote in any way, so I hope it turns out right. Most of the time when I use caps it's to italicize or emphasize a word, but that long one in the beginning was due to slight irritation for apparently having failed to get my point across...I don't ever want to appear to be yelling or angry in my text. Also, what does TLDR mean?

-|-:
who plays things like fps's on a hand held anyway? ffs - handhelds is for puzzlers, 2d platformers, strategy games and RPG's. Things like proffessor layton... jeez.

Personally, I cgaff if apple come out with an iphone that has better graphics than a PS3, it's control system will suck ass.

Not all games using the Unreal engine are first person shooters.

With the Wii out there, are people really so suprised?
And while I absolutely adore my iTouch, it does have a "Meh" library. There are some great games on here if you look hard enough. But its Media first, hard-core games... somewhere down the priority list.
Of course, now that I've admitted that I am happy with my Apple product, the internet is going to proceed to insult me for it like it does when I say I game on a Macbook.
Because the fact that this is the way I like my computer situation, and I've used PCs for years- more than long enough to form an opinion with -people like to go, "NO, you're WRONG. MY way of doing things are better. It doesn't matter that you're happy with what you have, you really AREN'T. These are the reasons why: *insert rationale here*. Why don't you go do things MY way, huh?"
And then whenever I make a comment about how I don't like being irked by anti-Apple people, someone then quotes me and goes, "But they're right." I then giggle when they get moderated for a smartass, low-content post. (Yes, I am tired of hearing that, why do you ask?)

Still, they're not right. Whether its the 3DS or a Macbook, Its not about Goddamned technical specs, its about enjoying your machine.

Except for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. I feel bad about not being able to enjoy that thing. :(

aaaaaDisregard:
You also forget that this funny MIPS R4000 was quite advanced for the beginning of 90s - I'd say it was much more advanced than Intel 80486, which is about the same level of complexity with ARMv6 CPUs like the one supposedly installed in Nintendo 3DS.

And yet, the ARM architecture is mainly sold on a platform of being notably power-efficient, something which you don't expect from a MIPS processor originally designed for graphical workstations. When you struggle to get half the battery life from a PSP that you do from a DS of any variety (including, according to Nintendo's bumf, the 3DS), suddenly the relative technical achievements of the processors start to look slightly irrelevant.

Erana:
With the Wii out there, are people really so suprised?

I'm certainly not. Leave it to Nintendo to announce their "Next big breakthrough" in gaming is too weak to run a 12 year old gaming engine. Sorry guys, this is par for the course for Ninty. It took them 10 years to adopt standard size disc technology in a console when Sony had been doing it all along. The Wii has only 1.5x the processing power of it's predecessor and can not render images higher than 480p. Nintendo has always felt that the biggest way to leap forward is to go backwards. No one should be surprised that the 3DS is underpowered. Especially considering the DS hardware was barely above SNES specifications.

But it's ok. Nintendo could put a dead baby in a box and people would be queuing up around the corner at 1am in a snowstorm to get it first. So don't think this thing won't sell out in an hour and a half.

Sir John the Net Knight:
I'm certainly not. Leave it to Nintendo to announce their "Next big breakthrough" in gaming is too weak to run a 12 year old gaming engine. Sorry guys, this is par for the course for Ninty. It took them 10 years to adopt standard size disc technology in a console when Sony had been doing it all along. The Wii has only 1.5x the processing power of it's predecessor and can not render images higher than 480p. Nintendo has always felt that the biggest way to leap forward is to go backwards. No one should be surprised that the 3DS is underpowered. Especially considering the DS hardware was barely above SNES specifications.

Unreal Engine 3 a 12 year old gaming engine? DS barely above SNES specifications? Are you actually being serious?, you have to be joking surely?

People don't seem to take into consideration that a good portion of the RAM and such will be taken up by the system's OS. Whereas the 3DS has a very meager OS system that takes up very little space.

Also, remember that the 3DS is made by a company that actually produces games and publishes games made third party. The iphone does not, most of it's games are little better the glorified flash games.

I'm more concerned about the screen resolution, I wouldn't expect smart phone standard but it's looking pretty woeful. Probably the reason why it seems underpowered but i don't see much better detail being achieved on a standard ds screen.

chinomareno:
I'm more concerned about the screen resolution, I wouldn't expect smart phone standard but it's looking pretty woeful. Probably the reason why it seems underpowered but i don't see much better detail being achieved on a standard ds screen.

It isn't a standard DS screen. The 3D top screen is twice the resolution of a DS screen and that's after it deals with stereoscopy (its almost 4 times the resolution natively). Even the resolution of the lower screen is 50% higher then a standard DS display.

The reason people think its underpowered is because they really don't know anything about 3D technology, its certainly not down to the way launch games are looking. RE and MGS are two of the best, if not the best looking, handheld games I've ever seen.

Rein's been saying the same thing about Nintendo consoles for years. The fact that people are taking what he's saying about them seriously is laughable. The guy's basically just a massive troll.

haha, my ipod is more powerful than a 3ds!

wait... WHAT!?

Xanthious:

Nevyrmoore:

Xanthious:
Color me shocked, yet another underpowered Nintendo console. I can't believe Nintendo, a company who hasn't even made the jump to high definition (a move even my grandmother has made at this point), would release yet another system that is painfully behind the times and relies on a shitty gimmick to mask it's obvious shortcomings.

Is this including the DS? I'm a bit unsure, though I doubt it considering the fact that it's been ruining the PSP's shit for the past several years.

Of course it includes the DS. It includes every system Nintendo has made up to and including the N64. With the exception of the GBA, Nintendo has yet to release a console or handheld since the SNES that can stand on it's own without a gimmick to get it over. The N64 and Gamecube were just plain out bad compared to the competition at the time and the Wii and DS wouldn't be nearly as successful w/o their gimmicks that appeal to the absolute lowest common denominator. Hell Nintendo is so caught up on gimmicks it's repackaged the DS how many times now adding a new gimmick each time (camera, obscenely large screen, etc)?

The DS is successful against the PSP more because Sony can't help but screw the pooch with the PSP over and over and less to do with it being anything that could be mistaken for a superior system. The Wii is successful because the audience it caters to. Let's be honest, your average Wii owner is either in grade school or drives a mini van and gets confused by a controller with more than three buttons.

As to the point of the graphics not being all that important compared to the iPhone and other smartphones on the market. Well what does it say when your new top end handheld can't even stack up to phones that have been out now for a year or two? These companies aren't designing these phones with gaming at the forefront of their minds and yet they manage to put out a technically superior product to Nintendo that designed their newest handheld specifically for gaming.

Oh please. The N64 was crippled by the cartridge vs CD issue, (and thus a lack of storage for detailed textures, sounds and so on.).

That aside it had better hardware than the Playstation, it's only competitor.
It was quite capable of graphical effects a playstation couldn't cope with, but of course, when you have 600 mb to store textures and such vs 8 to 32 mb, it's obvious that there's going to be problems with detail.

The N64 is mass-produced silicon graphics hardware. It wasn't underpowered, it just had an unfortunate design compromise in sticking with cartridges as a storage medium.
(Great for loading times, but awful for most everything else)

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