Molyneux: I've Never Made a Great Game

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Red Right Hand:


Ben Gepfrey:
Fables were good games, they just have some flaws, sooner or later we will have that truly great game.

Any game that ends with a SINGLE moral choice that renders every last thing you did before that irrelevant is not a good game. The fables are bad, bad games.

I've been saying he doesn't make good games for years, I'm pleased he and I are on the same page.

What? Surely a measure of whether a game is good or not depends on the level of enjoyment experienced by the users? Not some arbitrary game flaw. Sure that can affect whether someone enjoys it, but the flaw you mentioned didn't really have an affect on my experience of the games. Speaking as someone who enjoyed the Fable series immensely, I would certainly say that they are not bad, bad games. I'm pretty sure i'm not alone in that opinion either.

OT: This is what I love about Peter Molyneux. While he might promise the world in the run-up to a game, he's the first one to point out it's flaws and that's what let's me forgive his over-enthusiasm.

A single choice that turns you from Jesus Christ into the Devil just because those are the two choices isn't an arbitrary complaint, it's a wholesale betrayal of the rest of the game when you were supposed to be making this hero with their own choices. How did that make any kind of narrative sense? It was something that came about because everyone wanted to go home early that day and they said "Fuck it, that'll do."

Regardless, my point is that you cannot say a game is bad if a majority of the people who played it enjoyed it. If this flaw detracted from people's experience so much that a majority of people dislike the game, then yes you would be right. It would be a bad game. However, this isn't the case. Yes, it doesn't live up to the hype that you have total freedom in your moral choices, and it was a particularly stupid thing to promise on Molyneux's part, but that flaw doesn't instantly make it a bad game.

Sadly, I have a feeling that you and I are not going to agree no matter what is said, but oh well...

You're always looking at the stars Peter, try something a little less "ambitious".

I like that Peter is very down to earth.

He gets excited and spurt off about his game, and then after he calms and looks at it from an outside standpoint.

He's not cold and unwilling to admit anything like the calculated speeches of most other designers.

Molyneux really needs a sidekick to level him out. An Anna Wintour to her Grace Coddington, so to speak(watch The September Issue, it's great, if you can stand people in fashion and magazines). He needs a yin to his yang.

So what he wants is not just sales, but people actually loving his game and putting it in their top 5? What a noble goal!

I get the feeling though, from his comments, that he doesn't feel like this is the one either. I hope he doesn't lose that enthusiasm that has become so endearing to most of us!

For a second there i thought people had forgotten about dungeon keeper, i'm relieved that it got some attention on the second page.

Personally, i think pretty much every game Molyneux made has been great, with some going way beyond that. Unfortunately no game could ever have lived up to the hype that surrounded him, so a lot of people got disappointed.


I consider the Black & White games pretty great.

Just got Black and white 2 installed. People love to make fun of him but he created several games that are incredibly fun and pretty original. I think we need more people like him in the industry.
He doesn't try to over hype his games to consumers, he does it for himself. By making these promises about his games, he's kind of forcing himself to try to make that amazing game a reality.
His games may not be perfect, but he aims high enough to hit pretty high, even when he misses a little.
Probably my favorite developer right now. Not my favorite games, but they have a strange power over me.

tell him to reform Bullfrog and make Dungeon Keeper 3...

he's like every other games designer, he's made some ace games and some shite

but he is an ace developer, and fable 3 will kick asssssss :D

Bullfrog... Black and White, Fable 1 and Black and White 1

Dungeon keeper 2 is one of my favourite games and I demand a sequel be made and the movies too.. actually all of bullfrogs stuff plus the movies :D

[zonking great]:
This is the worst reverse psychology I've seen in years.
Do you all realize what he's doing? He's basically saying all of those who bought any of his games are idiots who bought incomplete products.

Seriously? I know reading comprehension is a rare resource on the Internet but come on! Read this again please:

Logan Westbrook:

For most people, this would be an incredibly respectable list of achievements, but Molyneux says he won't be happy until he's released what he thinks is a "great" game. Molyneux thought that he had made some good games, but never one that someone might put in a top-five list of his or her favorite games. He said that someone might consider adding one of his games, but they would never make the final cut.

Read the underlined portion again.

Molyneux thinks he has made good games, games that are worth playing. However he also thinks that none of these good games are truly great. An analogy: He's been making Super Mario Sunshine, he wants to make Super Mario Bros. 3.

Fable 2 took too much flak tbh, it was a great game.

He's a great bloke, can admire the fact he really is attempting to make a "great" game.

You know what:

At least he admits it...unlike some of these companies that keep making games and saying they are solid gold...

He admits he is human...-shrug- makes him a decent person in my book

If you're sneaking around here Peter, I'd like to point out to you that Fable 2 might have come closer to its sales target if it wasn't exclusive to the 360. Both it and the PC run off the same APIs, and many resources would be reusable, so it wouldn't be overly difficult.

"Molyneux: I've Never Made a Great Game"

Glad you finally sobered up, Pete.

Logan Westbrook:
Molyneux said that he would actively seek out criticism of his work by posting under an alias on gaming forums and trying to spark a debate.

Yes, that's right everyone. I'm actually Peter Molyneux.

I think Fable is one of the best games ive ever played.

Fable 2 is my favorite game ever. People may think I'm weird but I still play it

Baby Tea:
I don't care what anyone says: I love Peter Molyneux.
He's the most enthusiastic game developer/designer/idea-man I've seen in the industry. Ever.
He tries new things, he puts his ideas to the test, he's his own worst critic, and he's willing to admit when he screws something up. Seriously, even if he over-promises on some aspects of his games: The guy has a real heart for the industry, and a real passion to keep things moving.

Hang in there, Pete!

Well fuck you have ninja'd me by miles. I agree with you to a 100%.

Gotta give the man some credit. I really hope that Fable 3 will become his great game.

Pesimist, or perfectionist? *ponders*

Fable: the lost chapters would totally make it in to my top 5.

Logan Westbrook:
His goal, he said, was to make it into the "triple-A club", which meant making a game that sold over 5 million copies.

He wont be great until he stops caring about making popular games and concentrates on making GOOD ones, Not that he hasnt made any good games

Are you shitting me, Peter? Dungeon Keeper is my favourite PC game, ever.

My top games list:

1. Fable 2
2. Halo Reach
3. CoD MW2
4. Saints Row 2
5. Alien Swarm

Old School
1. Fable
2. Super Smash Bros
3. Halo
4. Ocarina of Time
5. LOTR: Battle For Middle Earth

Feel better about yourself Moly?

Keep it up, Molyneux, you'll get it eventually :D

Populous and Fable are up there in my favourite games ever. But I saw an interview with him recently from the EuroGamer and he did seem like the kind of guy who would slate himself one minute, have a slice of cake, forget what he had said earlier and proclaim himself to be the most amazing human ever.

No? Ah well. He can be unhappy all he likes. He made me a very happy gamer and that's all that matters.

Actually i put Black & White on more than one top five list and Fable TLC made it on my top 10 list. So, you're wrong again, Peter... :P

My problem with Peter Molyneux is that to me he seems like a used car salesman. He presents his games as being something totally differant from what they are in the end when you actually get them home and open the box.

Now granted, he has yet to actually sell me an outright lemon, and in the games he produces I see a lot of potential. Enough where while I am critical, I do typically wind up continueing to buy his product which is all that matters in the end I guess.

The big problem I have with him is that he seems to promote things as being in his games that actually are not there, and he does this at a point in the development process when he should know they won't be there. Granted he can be defended by the letter of what he says in many cases, but he definatly leads people to certain conclusions that just aren't true, and seems to do it intentionally.

The maddening thing about this is that very little of what he promises seems to be beyond the technology that we have availible. Much like "Age Of Conan" it wasn't like they/he were/was promising anything that was outright impossible, but what would take an incredible amount of effort and using a lot of cutting edge technology. Leading to a lot of disappointment when the games turn out to not be all that.

Still, in the end I think I'll be happy if Fable III drops the whole "eating meat is evil, and vegans are pure good" thing. I fail to see why to be a good guy my character has to exist on fruit, celery, and Tofu. I am also hoping the weight gain system also isn't wonky, muscles are more attractively drawn (especially for women), and similar things.

Fable is one of the few games where you can in theory rescue a bunch of people from slavers and then see the townsfolk cower in abject terror because you like to eat steak.

Ok at least he admits it.

Well in the last 10 years i would agree with him, The fable games are deeply deeply flawed.

Wait, wait, wait ,wait, wait. Peter Molyneux thinks he's never made a good game? Has he forgotten about the Black&White series and Fable? I think those were pretty damn good!

I for one, loved fable 1. I think it might actually make my top 5 list. just bellow elder scrolls and Kotor.

"my cousin says that these barrels might have stuff in em. Quick! while he's away, smash the barrels and see whats inside!"

probably my favourite gaming quote of all time ^^

Very admirable of him. Not a lot of people out there who have the guts to say things like that. I have to say I found myself nodding in agreement when he said no one would place any of his games in their top 5. This, for me at least, is certainly the case.
I loved Fable and Fable 2 was fun for a bit but they're a ways away from my top 5. It's is a shame because I really love RPGs and as far as his concepts for the Fable games go they are original, innovative and damn fun to read about, which is what makes it all the more disappointing when the actual game doesn't live up to the press releases that preceded it.

That being said I have not seen a single scrap of press release related to Fable 3, which means I will be buying it without a shred of hype in my mind :D

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