World of Warcraft Sets the Standard for Pay MMOs, Says Champions Online Dev

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World of Warcraft Sets the Standard for Pay MMOs, Says Champions Online Dev

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According to Cryptic Studios head Jack Emmert, going free-to-play is a matter of survival.

Cryptic Studios' superhero-themed Champions Online is the latest big name MMO to shed the subscription model and go free-to-play. It follows the lead of games like Turbine's Lord of the Rings Online, which has reported significant increases in revenue since the change. But Emmert says that increased revenues are only part of the reason for making an MMO free-to-play. The other part, he says, is that trying to beat World of Warcraft at its own game is a fool's errand.

Emmert doesn't think that subscriptions are dead, but said that in order to make it work, a game has to be able to rival the monolithic WoW. That's a feat that he believes only the upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic has a chance of accomplishing, and even then, it's not a sure thing. "[BioWare] can probably attract that attention," he said. "They can still get the benefit of the doubt. It's BioWare, right? We all know BioWare makes great games. They'll buy it. But then it's will the game be good enough?"

"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

Interestingly, in a recent interview with The Escapist, Blizzard's Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street expressed a similar sentiment, although he credited the enthusiasm of World of Warcraft players as the reason the game was still running and able to charge a fee, rather than necessarily the game itself. "Certainly the business model is something that's working for us and it's not something we're going to mess around with," he said. "It's amazing, it's remarkable to me that players still care this much ... how can [they] care this much about a game that's this old? There's so many other games that have come and gone in that time."

The beta tests for the free-to-play version of Champions Online begin this month, with plans for the service to go live early next year.

Source: Eurogamer

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Blizzard made a good game and kept it still (In perspective, the hardcore players who whine it is becoming easier (inc. me) are still kicking around...)

And for me personally, I haven't found any game that would satisfy my hunger word PvE in working form. All new MMO seems to be pushing in their ads "HUGE MASSIVE OPEN WORLD !PVP!" Well I don't want that, I want PvE with my own good community. (Aion? I don't want to grind same place 5million times (Yes, you need to grind in wow, but thats mainly raid grind and raid prep grinding for me, not much else, and it is fairly fun with right community...))
And they say PvP is good in wow, I don't know about that I suck at it so I wont be able to give a statement of it...

You could always try fixing the broken games you leave behind Jack.

Just a thought.

Like fixing PvP in CoH/V, PvE in Champions, supporting the CCG, supporting the RPG, playtesting power combinations before release, not introducing new rules after release...general things like that.

Maybe then you could try charging for games, because all those people who paid for life time membership of Champions MIGHT be slightly miffed with all the people who get to do the same for free.

But then, you're already working on Neverwinter, which I'm sure will...have areas of rigidly defined "fun".

too bad aion didnt stay as awesome as the first 15 lvls were for the ones after that, it had a very strong early game but after that it went to grind town, and not even good quest grind down, it went to kill mobs to lvl up grind town that that town sucks

Im still hoping that warhammer online goes the free route, it was a damn good mmo last time I played it since they had fixed the bugs and the balance was really nice but by that point there just werent enough ppl playing it to be able to pvp as much as I wanted to, which made lvling a new char very boring

I think Cryptic is very smart to take this stance. Say what you will about WoW, I'm not going to argue with anyone who says it has problems, but the undeniable fact is that it's pretty much the flagship of the MMO market and has held that position for its entire retail life. It would take a very special kind of MMO to wrestle that title away from it and a somewhat niche game like Champions isn't going to do that. I'm not saying CO is a bad game, quite the opposite. I like the fact it's not a "WoW clone", some of my best MMO playing experiences were on it and the community there is by and large one of the best. It's just not a "WoW killer", and frankly I'm glad it's not.

Dogmeat T Dingo:
I think Cryptic is very smart to take this stance. Say what you will about WoW, I'm not going to argue with anyone who says it has problems, but the undeniable fact is that it's pretty much the flagship of the MMO market and has held that position for its entire retail life. It would take a very special kind of MMO to wrestle that title away from it and a somewhat niche game like Champions isn't going to do that.

Indeed. I also don't believe TOR will dethrone WoW, at least not for a number of years. Yes, BioWare can be a good developer, but I honestly believe that TOR doesn't have a chance as the market stands. Star Trek was the other major sci-fi franchise, and that MMO seems to have gone quiet (I understand it's still alive, you just don't hear a lot about it outside of Massively).

TOR would have to be very special, IMHO, to have a chance against WoW. WoW has time, an amazing developer, a huge bank balance and market dominance on its side. All these huge fantasy IPs such as Warhammer, Conan and the monolith that is LotR have attempted to jump into the market but they've just not found huge success (Although LotR wasn't bad by any standard) against WoW.

Star Wars games don't seem to do amazingly in the charts. They'll do well, but they seem to quickly drop out, and I don't know if that will happen to TOR. It could be too little, too late, or it could be an over-ambitious project that backfires on both BioWare Austin and LucasArts.

"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

My immediate reaction when I saw the title of this article was "No shit, Sherlock."

Champions Online couldn't even beat City of Heroes. Emmert's attempt to save face by pretending they were trying to compete with WoW is laughable.

The_root_of_all_evil:
You could always try fixing the broken games you leave behind Jack.

Just a thought.

Like fixing PvP in CoH/V, PvE in Champions, supporting the CCG, supporting the RPG, playtesting power combinations before release, not introducing new rules after release...general things like that.

Maybe then you could try charging for games, because all those people who paid for life time membership of Champions MIGHT be slightly miffed with all the people who get to do the same for free.

Bingo. The whole process works better, whether it's Free to Play or Pay to Play when you release unbroken and complete MMOs... something Cryptic can't seem to do (no matter how loudly and intelligently the beta testers shout).

MaVeN1337:
"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

MaVeN1337:
"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

WOW IS TEH DEBIL....

wait really? Are you seriously of the opinion that WoW -stole- all of its ideas from Everquest? It snuck up in the dead of night and WHAMO hacked the creative thought process right the fuck out of it!

....Grow up. You'd have to be naiive to think that at this point in the MMO history that no one took from Everquest. Or Ultima Online. They were the great granddaddy's, the groundbreakers. Thats like saying that modern day literary greats stole from Shakespeare, or Twain.

Don't be so dramatic. I can understand if you dislike wow, but demonizing a damn videogame is downright childish.

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

It's funny because that's exactly what everyone said about Everquest when it came out:

'Everquest is pretty much Ultima Online for Morons. Fortunately for Sony, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

Which is funny because before that, that's what everyone said about Ultima Online:

'Ultima Online is pretty much Neverwinter for Morons. Fortunately for Origin, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

It's nice to see the proud tradition of bashing whatever happens to be most popular at the time continues. Brings a tear to these nostalgic eyes! March on proud soldier, march on!

Boy am I over the jerking off people and devs. do over WoW.

It's a good game, we get it.

Is it the best? No. Is it the most well known? Yes.

Let us please move on and get over the myth that Blizzard cannot be beaten.

I play WoW, I quite like WoW. I don't really understand the hate it seems to get, it's not perfect but it is highly polished and the art style means that despite the lack of cutting edge graphics it still looks good. I assume that eventually i'll get bored of it, but I won't then turn round and say it's awful, I'll just stop playing as it will no longer interest me. Until then I'm quite happy to pay Blizzard £8 a month for the service they provide.

The Madman:

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

It's funny because that's exactly what everyone said about Everquest when it came out:

'Everquest is pretty much Ultima Online for Morons. Fortunately for Sony, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

Which is funny because before that, that's what everyone said about Ultima Online:

'Ultima Online is pretty much Neverwinter for Morons. Fortunately for Origin, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

It's nice to see the proud tradition of bashing whatever happens to be most popular at the time continues. Brings a tear to these nostalgic eyes! March on proud soldier, march on!

It might have been an argument had I not been a 4-year WoW player.

I don't hate the game. Far from it. But I do hate what it's doing to the market; namely, strangling it and stifling innovation. Regardless of personal feeling about any MMO, innovation and evolution are two of the most important parts of any industry. A company that gets successful enough to rest on its laurels always deserves to be taken down, in the end.

This is just a lame excuse for the balance issues and lack of content--especially end-game but all throughout the game too--for Champions Online.

They flushed any PvP longevity down the toilet with the bad balance--with good balance it was unique and could have been pretty fun--and then there's nothing to raid or anything of substance to do once you reach the level cap, and there no reason to reach level cap more than once, unless you want to repeat things over and over.

If there were budgetary issues I can understand some of the lack of content. But if they want people to stick around they have to put in end-game gear. There were even some end-game bosses, but they were buggy and had no drops. How much would it have cost to have them drop some purples? That is, good purples, not crappy ones you have to grind forever for, and then they are barely better than greens.

Bottom line, they don't understand PvP, and they don't even understand RPGs, surprisingly. Sure, they know about "role-playing" part of it, but they don't understand the "game."

I still recommend one play though of Champions Online, particularly if it is for free but even if it's not. And I'll still probably get their D&D game. The more D&D and the less Cryptic that goes into the gameplay design, the better.

traukanshaku:

The Madman:

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

It's funny because that's exactly what everyone said about Everquest when it came out:

'Everquest is pretty much Ultima Online for Morons. Fortunately for Sony, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

Which is funny because before that, that's what everyone said about Ultima Online:

'Ultima Online is pretty much Neverwinter for Morons. Fortunately for Origin, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

It's nice to see the proud tradition of bashing whatever happens to be most popular at the time continues. Brings a tear to these nostalgic eyes! March on proud soldier, march on!

It might have been an argument had I not been a 4-year WoW player.

I don't hate the game. Far from it. But I do hate what it's doing to the market; namely, strangling it and stifling innovation. Regardless of personal feeling about any MMO, innovation and evolution are two of the most important parts of any industry. A company that gets successful enough to rest on its laurels always deserves to be taken down, in the end.

Yeah a company that rests on its laurels as the market leader deserves to fall.

But how is taking a huge risk and completely remaking your original game world almost from scratch while taking huge revamps to your gameplay Blizzard "resting on its laurels"?

JerrytheBullfrog:

traukanshaku:

The Madman:

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

It's funny because that's exactly what everyone said about Everquest when it came out:

'Everquest is pretty much Ultima Online for Morons. Fortunately for Sony, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

Which is funny because before that, that's what everyone said about Ultima Online:

'Ultima Online is pretty much Neverwinter for Morons. Fortunately for Origin, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market!'

It's nice to see the proud tradition of bashing whatever happens to be most popular at the time continues. Brings a tear to these nostalgic eyes! March on proud soldier, march on!

It might have been an argument had I not been a 4-year WoW player.

I don't hate the game. Far from it. But I do hate what it's doing to the market; namely, strangling it and stifling innovation. Regardless of personal feeling about any MMO, innovation and evolution are two of the most important parts of any industry. A company that gets successful enough to rest on its laurels always deserves to be taken down, in the end.

Yeah a company that rests on its laurels as the market leader deserves to fall.

But how is taking a huge risk and completely remaking your original game world almost from scratch while taking huge revamps to your gameplay Blizzard "resting on its laurels"?

I did mention in my original post that I was curious as to whether or not Cataclysm would be the spark that the game needs to stay fresh. I admit my point might have been buried under quite a bit of vitriol, but as a long-time player that was extremely unhappy with all the changes to make the game more "accessible," it's hard for me to look at Blizzard with anything other than distaste at the moment. But, if I'd never liked the game in the first place, I would care as much what happens to it now.

So, it remains to be seen whether or not changes in Cataclysm will be a renaissance or a disappointment. Given their track record of incessant pandering to the lowest common denominator of the playerbase, though, I'm not expecting much.

traukanshaku:
I don't hate the game. Far from it. But I do hate what it's doing to the market; namely, strangling it and stifling innovation. Regardless of personal feeling about any MMO, innovation and evolution are two of the most important parts of any industry. A company that gets successful enough to rest on its laurels always deserves to be taken down, in the end.

I'd argue the opposite is true. WoW is so damn good at what it does, that the only legitimate option for success is to try something completely different. If you just make a WoW clone, the way everyone has done for 5 years now, you are doomed to fail. Why play a WoW clone when you could be playing WoW? Unfortunately for the genre right now, publishers and developers are terrified of going out on a limb. Thus, you get the waves of imitators that inevitably fail.

MaVeN1337:
"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

I always like when people complain that wow "ruined" MMOs by making them "easy enough for any moron".

Nevermind that most of the "dumbing down" was actually fixing broken things in the genre. Almost everything you'd name as ruining the genre would actually be considered a great design choice by the majority of developers.

The problem is they dont add things to the MMO game they just try to be WoW
look at all the MMOs out there
how many give you more then 5 skills at level one?
how many have levels all of them how many are about you right clicking on a person for 10-20sec to kill more people
Why do all MMO RPS need to have stats to pump up?

make a game like savage 2 but open world? i would get it

boholikeu:

MaVeN1337:
"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

I always like when people complain that wow "ruined" MMOs by making them "easy enough for any moron".

Nevermind that most of the "dumbing down" was actually fixing broken things in the genre. Almost everything you'd name as ruining the genre would actually be considered a great design choice by the majority of developers.

Ya.... so they have a loot color system whats the point everyone has epics anyway
They force you to grind heroics all day to get raid gear..i would rather be raiding DUDE!!!
I feel like every expansion is an excuse to make me fork over 50$ to keep doing what i was doing before except instead of doing it for level 80 i do it for 85 gear how new and fun

Whats that no more outdoor bosses? that made the game deep too bad
Whats that no more outdoor PvP thanks to flying mounts too bad

Remember when you could do raids then go PvP nop now you only PvP or PvE unless you play 9 hours a day everyday witch is what you should be doing seeing as you can get weapons though PvE only

i quit wrath half way though after noticing the set path and boring items they had every item was just a buff of the old

and the set path they had first you do heroics for your gear then grind the badges then get your hit rating up, just saying boring game play all you do is add up numbers

The_root_of_all_evil:
You could always try fixing the broken games you leave behind Jack.

Just a thought.

Like fixing PvP in CoH/V, PvE in Champions, supporting the CCG, supporting the RPG, playtesting power combinations before release, not introducing new rules after release...general things like that.

Maybe then you could try charging for games, because all those people who paid for life time membership of Champions MIGHT be slightly miffed with all the people who get to do the same for free.

But then, you're already working on Neverwinter, which I'm sure will...have areas of rigidly defined "fun".

One thing I disagree with - you don't get the same things for free. Less champion slots, archetypes (not powersets), adventure packs and no tech support, limited access to forums...

MaVeN1337:
The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game.

Everytime a person makes that stupid argument of "X stole Y's Idea" somewhere someone strangles a kitten in front of it's mother then beats her with it.

Because it's the most fruitless and foolish point to make.

Every intellectual venture ever, was an evolution, however small, of something before it.

Until you get so far back that it is people "stealing" ideas from animals.

Some of the most famous symphonies of our past are hybridized and "stolen" from freaking bird calls -.-.

So please, just stop, anytime you see anyone else make that point, just verbally slap them.

Maybe then we'll start discussing things that actually have any meaningful point.

But judging from the rest of what you said I'm just guessing you are someone that doesn't like things merely because they aren't up your alley.

I don't think WOW is a godsend or anything, I only grab about a month a year of playtime. But just about every word you used to describe it screams of having never played it. "cue telling me you have a full account of level 80's and full epic gear with every achievement unlocked."

boholikeu:

MaVeN1337:
"You're skating uphill if you don't offer a free-to-play option," he added. "World of Warcraft has pretty much sucked the oxygen out of the subscription market and kind of devoured it itself."

If i had a goddamn nickel for every freaking time I said this since 2007 I would be. filthy fucking rich.

The most upsetting part of the whole thing, Is Blizzard stole all there ideas from Everquest, then completely missed the point of an MMO and made a far too easy game. WoW Is the instant gratification, juvenile, cartoony looking, joke version of everquest and it's predecessors.

Also it spawned like a million wow clones spreading the players who quit WoW so thin, no single game could do quite as well as it should have.

traukanshaku:

This, nail on the head, QFT, etc.

WoW is pretty much Everquest for Morons. Fortunately for Blizzard, and unfortunately for the rest of us, morons are a huge market, so Blizzard lit a rocket under their ass and took a trip straight to the financial ionosphere. Now, even the intelligent people that don't even like the game any more still feel like they have too much time invested to quit.

Nothing but WoW will kill WoW. It really looked like it was heading that way until the Cataclysm info came out - now, we'll have to see. I've still got my fingers crossed that the great, rotting behemoth will fall straight through the ground and into hell where it belongs, but I doubt it'll happen.

I always like when people complain that wow "ruined" MMOs by making them "easy enough for any moron".

Nevermind that most of the "dumbing down" was actually fixing broken things in the genre. Almost everything you'd name as ruining the genre would actually be considered a great design choice by the majority of developers.

Nowhere did I mention the phrase "dumbing down" and I did not say that WoW ruined anything except itself.

The game was made much more accessible to people new to the game itself and especially to the genre. Many of the measures taken to do that were not bad game design choices, nor were they bad choices from a business standpoint. The second is where my problem comes in. In the provess of making the game accessible to new players, Blizzard trampled all over the veteran players. In effect, the game because so accessible and so friendly to soloing that the large influx of new players was hitting max level without ever actually learning how to function in the game. You may call a solo-unfriendly mentality a "bad" design choice, but the entire reason to play an MMO over a single-player game is interaction between players, and if the game itself isn't effectively teaching its players how to play it by putting them in learning situations, the game has failed. The experience has failed. This may be the nihilist in me talking, but players should be punished mercilessly for sucking at a game, so that they either get better, or give up and go somewhere else. I shouldn't have to suffer through taking half a dozen new warlocks on trial runs before I find one who even has the brain capacity necessary to understand the concept of not standing in a fucking fire.

But, making money became the main goal, and punishment for not being able to play the game would drive people to quit, because there are a lot more bad-to-mediocre players than there are veteran raiders and PvPers. Please don't think I'm saying Blizzard shouldn't have wanted to make money - they're a business, it's their job. But not at the expense of the soul of the game.

The comments I made about the industry are spot on, however. WoW is too successful for any company to get a foothold, even ones that have been trying new things. There's just too many players that have been playing for far too long - it took my guild dissolving and most of my friends quitting for me to not care about the game enough to quit. And that's how it is with a lot of people. Even if a new and innovative game comes along, it still fails, because people have hundreds and thousands of hours in their WoW characters, whole groups of friends that probably aren't interested in switching games, etc. It would be great if the game could exist in a vacuum, where the people that enjoy it could enjoy it and other games could do their own thing somewhere else, with their own playerbase, but it just can't happen. Not until WoW loses a great deal of its popularity.

If none of that makes sense, I'm on Vicodin.

They need to look at the term MMO. Too many games that call themselves that are not MMO's.

The only true MMO I know of is Eve. Everyone is on the same server in the same world at the same time.

Wow is really not an mmo. Its thousands's of servers with .0001% of the population on each one - it's just like a bunch of counter strike servers. Using Wow logic - Valve could call TF2 an MMO.

But I admit - wow's popularity can not be denied.

It always gonna be the housewives favorite because it's easy and has no real consequence for failure.
I tried wow once but playing with fairies and midgets just isn't my thing.

Here is a link to my favorite wow pvp video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=911DH60MU6g

Here here.I was surprised that anyone still cared enough to make a WoW-ruined-my-Everquest post. The game had its heyday and it made MMORPGs what they are today. But WoW took its formula and greatly improved upon it. It managed to even out do Everquest 2, effectively beating them at their own game. I know one day WoW will fizzle out, but right now the community is strong and growing and is gearing up for another two years of play which is a life time in the MMO sense.

I really hate how much of a strangle-hold WoW has over MMO space, but I am a fan of the free2play model.

The problem is that people are more drawn to the community than the game, and since WoW has had one hell of a good start, it's hard for people to just jump ship. Of cause, then they're paying a subscription for the game, and that game demands a sizeable input of time...most people don't have the time or money to add another onto that list, or aren't willing to migrate away from their friends.

Hell, I dislike WoW nowadays because of the constant (IMO) downgrades to gameplay, but remain nostalgic about experiences with people I used to spend time with on there. That nostalgia is the only thing that draws me back, and then it only takes a day or two before I find the experience shallow without the old social element.

Eh, on the bright side, I may soon be able to play Champions again. I stopped because my friends stopped, and I didn't want to keep paying for it. But with a free2play model, I can get more people into it. Then I can play more with more people and have more fun, all for much cheaper. Everybody wins!

Abedeus:

One thing I disagree with - you don't get the same things for free. Less champion slots, archetypes (not powersets), adventure packs and no tech support, limited access to forums...

Does it really make that much of a difference though?

I'd suspsect it's nowhere near enough to balance unless they get some super prize from the FtP.

Like a Statue in one of the Zones.

traukanshaku:

If none of that makes sense, I'm on Vicodin.

Nope, perfect sense. WoW is a genre strangler and it hangs on in there not just because it's a free ride to the Bahamas for Blizzard. They don't really have to innovate or do anything else because it's a machine that prints money.

Same as Farmville.

Why should they release their strangle-grip? It'd be like EA giving anyone else a chance in the sports market. And 95% of the players won't even care if you painted them a picture. They enjoy being in a safe market because they know it will never change. They'll always have their level 70 Uber-Warlock, and he'll always be useful.

Dun be silly, Swtor will be one of the greatest failures that ever happened.

Personally i don't think TOR will beat WoW, (not for a few years anyway) but i think it will be it's biggest Rival. Bioware fans + Starwars + it's set in the old republic = one massive fanbase, i don't know one person who has Kotor, but isn't getting this, they all are, just like me.

I just hope it can make it's stand, it will be a day of joy i can tell ya.

Dana22:
Dun be silly, Swtor will be one of the greatest failures that ever happened.

Prove your point.

SinisterGehe:
And they say PvP is good in wow, I don't know about that I suck at it so I wont be able to give a statement of it...

I play on a PvP server, it is very fun. Once you get into Contested territory, it is open season. Very fun! Thankfully Blizz did balance some PvP issues, like Ret Pallys were freaking STUPID to fight in PvP, so now my hunter can win more often. :P

LawlessSquirrel:
I really hate how much of a strangle-hold WoW has over MMO space, but I am a fan of the free2play model.

The problem is that people are more drawn to the community than the game, and since WoW has had one hell of a good start, it's hard for people to just jump ship. Of cause, then they're paying a subscription for the game, and that game demands a sizeable input of time...most people don't have the time or money to add another onto that list, or aren't willing to migrate away from their friends.

Hell, I dislike WoW nowadays because of the constant (IMO) downgrades to gameplay, but remain nostalgic about experiences with people I used to spend time with on there. That nostalgia is the only thing that draws me back, and then it only takes a day or two before I find the experience shallow without the old social element.

I respect your opinion, but I must say I disagree. I've heard a few people say they "downgraded" the gameplay, but I've only seen improvements. My hunter had a serious upgrade since the patch and I appreciate it since my hunter always seemed rather fail in comparison to some of the other classes.
IMO, I think many people are upset about the game because Blizz has actually been balancing it better.

And if someone devotes so much time to one game that they can't play another... then that's their problem. I like WoW, but I can only play so much in a day before I think "I want to play something else". I can easily play WoW and play other games in one day.

arc1991:

Dana22:
Dun be silly, Swtor will be one of the greatest failures that ever happened.

Prove your point.

http://furiousfanboys.com/2010/10/ea-developer-old-republic-will-be-one-of-the-greatest-failures-in-the-history-of-mmos/

:D

Of course I cant prove anything beyond a doubt, because this game is not out yet. But I had bad feelings about it since it was announced.

Dana22:

arc1991:

Dana22:
Dun be silly, Swtor will be one of the greatest failures that ever happened.

Prove your point.

http://furiousfanboys.com/2010/10/ea-developer-old-republic-will-be-one-of-the-greatest-failures-in-the-history-of-mmos/

:D

Of course I cant prove anything beyond a doubt, because this game is not out yet. But I had bad feelings about it since it was announced.

FuriousFanboys.com...

Yeh, that did it for me, I've read the article and somehow...i seriously doubt half the stuff mentioned. Simply because Bioware know better.

Don't let EA or anyone else tell you anything, if it don't come from Bioware or Lucas Arts (you know, the people making the thing?) then don't believe it...

Those are the rules i go by, same thing with news and stuff.

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