Kinect Will Learn as You Play, Says Microsoft

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Kinect Will Learn as You Play, Says Microsoft

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The more you use Kinect, the better it will work for you, says Microsoft's Alex Kipman.

Everybody is different, from the way they look, to the way they move, and when Microsoft was building Kinect, it realized that trying to accommodate all that diversity with a lot of code simply wasn't going to work. Instead, it decided to take a different tack: Start Kinect off with a generic model, and have it learn the rest as it went along.

Kinect essentially takes notes on the people using it, making the experience better for them by being able to better recognize the way that they move and other elements like the layout of their playing space. Microsoft's director of incubation Alex Kipman likened the approach to the way a child learns to differentiate between people, or between people and other animals, saying that over time, Kinect built up an increasingly accurate picture of the people using it and its environment. He said that this was the only way of making Kinect work the way that Microsoft wanted, as the number of man-hours needed to get the same effect with traditional, "cause and effect," programming was too big to ever be feasible.

Interestingly, all this learning won't have too much of an effect on the Xbox 360's processor. Despite earlier comments saying that Kinect would use between 10 and 15 percent of the 360's CPU, Kipman says that Microsoft has managed to get that number down to "single digits." Microsoft achieved this by using the graphics processor to handle the bulk of Kinect's learning experience, a task that Kipman says that it's much better at than the main processor.

Kipman was confident that Kinect wouldn't have a negative effect on games, as there was always "significant amount[s] of processing" left to use, even with the most recent releases. He acknowledged that it would be something that developers would have to take into account when building their games, but said it was no different from the compromises made when a studio licensed a third-party engine for its game.

Kinect will be available tomorrow in North America, on November 10th in Europe, and November 18th in Australia.

Source: Games Industry

Permalink

great, so now you call microsoft support :

-Hey my kinect keep bugging !
-No, it's because it's havent learn enough yet, keep playing !

So it will learn and adapt? Good god, we need to destroy it now, before it decides to rebel against us! Who would have thought the robot revolution would come from a gaming device?

IAS: It's a nice feature. Still not interested in Kinect, but good to see it will hopefully work for those who are interested.

Mr. Omega:
So it will learn and adapt? Good god, we need to destroy it now, before it decides to rebel against us! Who would have thought the robot revolution would come from a gaming device?

IAS: It's a nice feature. Still not interested in Kinect, but good to see it will hopefully work for those who are interested.

Finally! Someone else that isn't interested but isn't just ragging on it!

That's cool. But have them link up what they've learned over Live to teach one another.

AND THEN KINECT WILL RULE THE WORLD.

Seriously, though. That's pretty cool.

Me: Hey! That was me swinging my arm Kinect! Jesus Christ! Make my character move!

Kinect: I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Dave.

Me: Wha...wha...

has anyone stopped paying attention these whore-like advertisements? I have, I can no longer read articles about this.

Brotherofwill:
Me: Hey! That was me swinging my arm Kinect! Jesus Christ! Make my character move!

Kinect: I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Dave.

Me: Wha...wha...

Me: But... B-But my name's not Dave.

Kinect: Sorry, wrong Xbox!


Microsoft achieved this by using the graphics processor to handle the bulk of Kinect's learning experience, a task that Kipman says that it's much better at than the main processor.

Am I the only one curious as to why the Graphics processor is apparently more powerful than everything else, including the bits actually used to play the game?

mad825:
has anyone stopped paying attention these whore-like advertisements? I have, I can no longer read articles about this.

I read the so I can read all the bashing about Kinect in the comments :D
Srsly tho I am sure this will not get in to the "HC gamers" market... Or .. Playing Halo with Kinect... Tbag for real???

Well... I am still sticking with my PC.

I'll be waiting to see if it really works as advertised.

Pardon me if I'm having serious doubts about it though; just about every other "adapts as you play" market angle in memory for any other product has been just short of a flat out lie.

(*mumbles something about a master chess simulator*)

Oh, goodie! =) I can be a part of gaming revolution; I get to offer up my xbox as construction materials for the geth! =)

Edit: not that I really care about movement-based gaming; when I play games, I plop down in my recliner, and the only arm-waving I do is to signal for my girl or cat to getch more coke. Doesn't matter which of them I ask; same result.
The learn as you play approach sounds iffy, though; at best, it's just a glorified and over-complicated version of the sensitivity sliders.

Mr. Omega:
So it will learn and adapt? Good god, we need to destroy it now, before it decides to rebel against us! Who would have thought the robot revolution would come from a gaming device?

IAS: It's a nice feature. Still not interested in Kinect, but good to see it will hopefully work for those who are interested.

Resistance is Futile!

All kidding aside, that sounds great in theory Microsoft, but I remain skeptical. And that's still without the fact that the Kinect is a peripheral and not your main control method, meaning that not many 3rd Party devs are going to be keen to working with it due to uncertainty of everyone purchasing it.

mad825:
has anyone stopped paying attention these whore-like advertisements? I have, I can no longer read articles about this.

LogicFail. You replied to this article. This article is about Kinect. Therefor you have "read articles about this." lern2logic, noob.

SinisterGehe:
Srsly tho I am sure this will not get in to the "HC gamers" market... Or .. Playing Halo with Kinect... Tbag for real???

Not Halo, no... but Steel Battalion and Panzer Dragoon are coming to Kinect. I'm willing to wait and see how those turn out before making up my mind about Kinect and the hardcore audience.

Still, the technology fascinates me. I might pick one up next year, depending upon the games (hint hint, MGS) and user reviews of how it works in games and the Dashboard.

-- Steve

I, for one welcome our new robotic overlords
...
...
please don't kill me Kenny T^T

I'm gonna wait and see if kinect actually works. my theory is that at least twenty threads about how buggy it is turn up on this website.

and on a serious note: Dear god!! they're learning!!!! STOP THEM!!!!!!

cathou:
great, so now you call microsoft support :

-Hey my kinect keep bugging !
-No, it's because it's havent learn enough yet, keep playing !

Alright, lets say you're a shy person, and you move kinda luggish at first, so the kinect learns this. You gain your confidence and you start moving different, and so when Kinect isn't quite working right and you call in you get "Well YOU changed your moving style. Now the kinect has to accomodate that and learn your style ALL over again"

Like it's our fault...

And for those who want to bash me and tell me to stop complaining, recognize a joke. I think it can be a really interesting feature, and while it won't be bought by me, I'minterested to see where it goes

Anton P. Nym:

mad825:
has anyone stopped paying attention these whore-like advertisements? I have, I can no longer read articles about this.

LogicFail. You replied to this article. This article is about Kinect. Therefor you have "read articles about this." lern2logic, noob.

wtf?
never read the article, just the title, got bored.

perhaps act more like a grown-up next time? this is not XboxLive

This is cool and all, but why are we learning about this feature for the first time a few days b4 launch? I would think this was the type of thing they would flaunt at e3. No matter how bad Kinect may turn out to be, this is a feature that the Move and Wii do not have, so you have to wonder why it hasn't been shoved down our throats for the last few months along with the rest of the marketing.

I fear the worst... It may be the beginnings of an Orwellian society... :O

Georgie_Leech:

Am I the only one curious as to why the Graphics processor is apparently more powerful than everything else, including the bits actually used to play the game?

I don' think it's a case of the GPU being more powerful, it's a case of it being better suited to handle that kind of task than the CPU, which is a much more general piece of technology.

While I am interested in seeing how the Kinect pans out, I really have no interest in it...that is until they come with a Wild West game where you get to use your hands as your guns mmmmmm those are going to be some fun quick-draw events.

It also is kind of creepy the Kinect learns your movements (I understand the programming importance)....I wonder if Microsoft mines the data to see how often you move your hand to your mouth...and then place snack adverts and such on dashboard

Sounds good, if it works as it's supposed. I'd imagine the "learning" only makes Kinect slightly different. Generally I'm heavily opposed to everything automated and simplified, especially in interfaces of games and software.

I really think the absolute best feature would be to manually adjust exactly how the controller works. In sports games or others where it is actually encouraged to move and do some actual physical with a motion controller, there should be an option to make yourself really work for it;

I once tried a boxing game of sorts on Wii at my then-girlfriend's, had some fun really shadow-boxing and surprisingly working a bit of sweat, but the controllers couldn't keep up and my "punches" in the game were actually many times slower and inaccurate, opposed to what I was really doing. Then comes my girlfriend's 12-year-old-or-so little sister, and she just gently holds the controller and pivots them in a certain way and beats the crap out of the opponent who was the first in a series of difficulty increasing opponents to defeat me. After that it felt stupid to actually box, since the controllers seemed to respond dozen times better when just moving them around gently and in a way that in no way reminds anyone of boxing.

Although, this won't affect me in any way as the first console (at the crisp age of 22) I've considered to get is PS3, mainly because of the exclusives that are not on PC.

Anton P. Nym:

Not Halo, no... but Steel Battalion and Panzer Dragoon are coming to Kinect. I'm willing to wait and see how those turn out before making up my mind about Kinect and the hardcore audience.

Still, the technology fascinates me. I might pick one up next year, depending upon the games (hint hint, MGS) and user reviews of how it works in games and the Dashboard.

-- Steve

The tech fascinates me, but I'll never, repeat never buy the next Steel Battalion. No amount of ingenuity is going to overcome the fact that they threw away a $100+ controller for a game that _requires_ controls. For a hands free approach...that costs another fucking $150 dollars. What the hell were they thinking.

So its like Skynet, except it is made for civilian not military use.

z3rostr1fe:
I fear the worst... It may be the beginnings of an Orwellian society... :O

Lol.

Wait, what?

They've made two statements that don't mesh or don't actually mean anything together. Here are the statements.

1. Kinect will offer 1:1 motion.

2. Kinect will learn your movements and surroundings.

Here is why they either don't mesh or don't mean anything.

1:1 motion implies that when I make a movement the game will make the IDENTICAL movement EXACTLY as I made it. If Kinect is to learn anything about my movements or surroundings it is either doing so pointlessly or it is doing it with the intent to 'make things easier for me'. If this is the case, then it can not possibly be 1:1. It is the PROPERTY of 1:1 motion that makes this absolutely impossible.

If you're confused, you should be, because this is what they have said without actually saying it.

Either Kinect isn't 1:1 and only functions as an interpretation of your movement (WAGGLE WAGGLE WAGGLE) OR it is 1:1, it learns about your movements and surroundings, and doesn't do anything with it at all. Those are the only two possibilities.

Reasoning:

1. The very property of 1:1 motion is that it is impossible for the controller (in this case, the camera) to interpret your movement as anything other than it is.

2. Something that involves imprecise movement (not 1:1) uses gestures or 'stances' to interpret how the character should behave in the game. Obviously it is possible for something to 'learn' that my crouch is different than someone elses crouch and then be like 'ok, so this is his crouch' and then have the character perform said gesture based action.

2a. By this logic, I could eventually teach the Kinect to crouch by raising my hands in to the air.

So, it's either 1:1, or it isn't. They've made contradictory statements on the nature of the device and I'm curious to see which it is. Before I was under the belief that it was 1:1. Now, I'm not so sure.

Hmm...so it adapts and learns? Such advanced technology for such limited and repetive minigames.

Mornelithe:

Anton P. Nym:

Not Halo, no... but Steel Battalion and Panzer Dragoon are coming to Kinect.

The tech fascinates me, but I'll never, repeat never buy the next Steel Battalion. No amount of ingenuity is going to overcome the fact that they threw away a $100+ controller for a game that _requires_ controls. For a hands free approach...that costs another fucking $150 dollars. What the hell were they thinking.

Well, how many other games used that $100+ controller?... At least Kinect works for more than one title, though it remains to be seen whether it'll work for more than one title I'd buy or whether it'll work well enough that I'd want to buy it.

As for "hands-free approach", I dunno... in my mind's eye I can see myself having a ton of fun controlling platforms with a Minority Report-like interface instead of switches and buttons, but it's vastly too early to tell how it'll work. Again, this is very much a "wait and see" thing for me rather than an instant "must buy" / "will never buy" decision.

-- Steve

"Turns out your game isn't buggy your just really, really stupid!"

I know Microsoft is the common and let's face it easiest target here, but Kinect could(and I stress COULD) be something great if the developers get behind it. Sure there's an inherent locomotion problem for most any "hardcore" games but let's give it the benefit of the doubt at least. I know I'm picking mine up tomorrow and not because I'm some M$ fanboy, but because I love new tech. Even if this thing winds up being a $150 toy for my 7 year old daughter to play with an imaginary tiger then so be it.

Let's look at it this way. The Wii brought motion flailing controls to the masses. The PS3/Move added depth and precision. The Kinect supposedly removes the need for a controller. Who knows what innovation can be born from this generations mistakes. I just know I'm looking forward to it.

Anton P. Nym:

Well, how many other games used that $100+ controller?... At least Kinect works for more than one title, though it remains to be seen whether it'll work for more than one title I'd buy or whether it'll work well enough that I'd want to buy it.

To me it's a middle finger to the fans of the previous titles that shelled out bigtime to have a controller that works for 1 game and 1 game only. Seriously, would it've been that much of a big deal to maybe have an alternate interface for the original controller?

As for "hands-free approach", I dunno... in my mind's eye I can see myself having a ton of fun controlling platforms with a Minority Report-like interface instead of switches and buttons, but it's vastly too early to tell how it'll work. Again, this is very much a "wait and see" thing for me rather than an instant "must buy" / "will never buy" decision.

-- Steve

That's how I find the tech intriguing, I certainly believe it has the capacity to be used in a variety of interesting ways without a doubt. But thus far, I've seen nothing that piques my interest, time will tell I suppose. I don't see that style of interface working with a mech-game however. The whole point is buttons and switches and being 'seated in' or 'part of' the machine. Ya know?

Onyx Oblivion:
That's cool. But have them link up what they've learned over Live to teach one another.

AND THEN KINECT WILL RULE THE WORLD.

Seriously, though. That's pretty cool.

Take over the world from knowledge on Live? More like shout obscenities, breath with a mouth, and stop playing to go do the chores shouted at them by their parent unit.

So basically it's a pre-teen Skynet. Hopefully these things don't "grow up" as well, or you'll find your Kinect painted black one day with all sorts of scratches on it while it puts on Linkin Park whenever you just want to play your games. And after that, it will take a huge sum of your money to "upgrade" only to be stuck in an office somewhere until it can finally afford to take over the world.

In otherwords, it will take a lot of commitment and tolerance to raise a Kinect, but when you're crying with joy as you watch your Kinect take over it's first national military and thank you in it's victory speech, you'll know it was all worth it.

In other news, if Kinect allowed me to play games using a nonexistant controller while on the couch as an alternative to flailing my arms around, I'd think about getting it. I'm not going to say motion controls are completely without merit, just that there needs to be a way to integrate them with current gaming practices in addition to expanding the market. Hell, if you wanted to, you could finally have a solution to the lack of a mouse and keyboard for consoles (which could open up to getting in on a market everyone wants, The MMO one, and do it in a safe way where you don't have to compete with WoW).

The Kinect was created by man.
It evolved.
It rebelled.
There are many copies.
AND THEY HAVE A PLAN!

Voice recognition software learns as you go.

And yet MOST OF THEM SUCK!

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