Shift 2: Unleashed Dev Attacks Rivals Over "Irrelevant" Cars

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Shift 2: Unleashed Dev Attacks Rivals Over "Irrelevant" Cars

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You can add hundreds of cars to your game, says Shift 2: Unleashed's lead designer, but people will ignore most of them.

Andy Tudor, Shift 2: Unleashed developer Slightly Mad Studios' lead designer, has joined EA VP Patrick Soderlund in bashing the competition ahead of the release of their rival racing sim. Tudor attacked Gran Turismo 5 and Forza Motorsports 3, saying they were more like encyclopedias than games, and featured hundreds of "irrelevant cars."

Slightly Mad's focus, he said, was on making the driving experience enjoyable, rather than including every variation of the 1986 Toyota Corolla. He thought that titles like Gran Turismo 5 encouraged people to grind races over and over to earn money to buy a new car, and then to go back and do it again for a new car.

Tudor said that most people didn't tend to collect all the available cars in games like Gran Turismo or Forza. What actually happened, he said, was that most people had between 10-15 cars in their garages, usually made up of the first car they had, a car they have in real life, a dream car, then specific cars for different tiers or licenses and cars they just wanted to try out. For that reason, Slightly Mad wasn't going to include hundreds and hundreds of cars that people would never use. Instead, Shift 2 would have a smaller and more focused selection that covered the various types of car enthusiasm, like American muscle cars or Japanese tuner cars, without going overboard.

EA has an uphill struggle with the Shift series, as its rivals have had much longer to go at it, but while it's refreshing to see a developer being so candid, Tudors comments about his rivals seem like they will do as much to harm Shift 2 as help it. There will be people - and considering we're talking about in-depth simulation games, there's likely to be a lot of them - who like the fact that GT5 and Forza 3 have a huge variety of different cars, and enjoy collecting them. Suggesting that there's something wrong with that probably isn't the best way to win them over.

Shift 2: Unleashed is scheduled for release on Xbox 360, PC, and PS3 in Spring of next year.

Source: Eurogamer

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True that. Keeping a ton of cars managed is hard. Really hard. Still, you know, car enthuisasts enjoy that sort of stuff.

We'll see what garage you have to offer, Slightly Mad.

Gran Tursimp 5?

Think you may have a spelling mistake there sir :P

Logan Westbrook:
Andy Tudor, Shift 2: Unleashed developer Slightly Mad Studios' lead designer, has joined EA VP Patrick Soderlund in bashing the competition ahead of the release of their rival racing sim. Tudor attacked Gran Tursimp 5 and Forza Motorsports 3, saying they were more like encyclopedias than games, and featured hundreds of "irrelevant cars."

Slightly Mad's focus, he said, was on making the driving experience enjoyable, rather than including every variation of the 1986 Toyota Corolla. He thought that titles like Gran Turismo 5 encouraged people to grind races over and over to earn money to buy a new car, and then to go back and do it again for a new car.

Proofreading? Just sayin'. :p

OT: The only thing that attracts me to games like GTA5 is the fact that there are a lot of cars to choose from. I'm not a fan of racing games to begin with, so that is what needs to keep my interest. Looks like it'll be that much easier to ignore Shift 2.

When they make a decent game Slightly Mad can talk.

Well i did sum up the whole GT5 thing as "Herp Derp! 1000 carz!" which i still stand by but i don't think that Slightly Mad Studios is really in a position to attack Polyphony is any way since it does not seem to have any real achivements to it's name. Personally i agree wholeheartedly but it seems like it would have been less hollow comming from an outfit like Codemasters Racing or Criterion who have proven just how outdated GT can look. Personally i don't see the appeal of 1000 cars above a good fun set of game mechanics, especially when it does not take most people over 5 years to get there (i.e. we have seen 2 Dirt games, Grid [with some pretty innovative features] and an F1 game from codemasters in that timescale)

I guess they just want some attention my lashing out at a bigger game. You Mad lightly Mad Studios?

dogstile:
Gran Tursimp 5?

Think you may have a spelling mistake there sir :P

What are you talking about? The Gran Turnip franchise is the very best in vegetable simulation on the market.

I have to agree here. GT5 has a Toyota Prius in it. Yeah, that environmentally friendly hybrid car. What's worse, th Prius is a 'premium' car which means it's got a cockpit view and they spent months making certain every fine detail is absolutely perfect. Fucking Prius. The Buggati Veyron, however, is just a standard car, no cockpit view, lower res model, just generally worse. That makes no sense, no matter what way you look at it.

Hmm, well I hated the first Need for Speed: Shift and love having mountains of cars in Forza 2, Forza 3 and Gran Turismo's 1 - 5, including prologue versions and GT PSP. So I'm guessing I'm not in their target demographic then.

Frankly if their best tactic is to try and insult other games I think they need new P.R. and Marketing staff.

When I do agree over 1000+ cars is pushing it and only a small margin will be used frequently, they are in no position to actually talk. Make a decent racing game and then we talk.

Feystar:
Hmm, well I hated the first Need for Speed: Shift

I wasn't too impressed either... felt too much like they were trying to be Grid, only without the charm and variety.

One of the reasons I loved NFS5 was because it had a ton of cars, even though they were all Porsche. It felt like an encyclopedia, a history lesson in living, interactive color. One that also had excellent gameplay. It also had a proper game structure, unlike Shift.

This reminds me a bit fo games like Split/Second, where you can't tune your cars, so once you havea car that very obviously outmatches the others, you'll never use them again. In a decent sized roster, you end up using 6 cars

Feystar:
Frankly if their best tactic is to try and insult other games I think they need new P.R. and Marketing staff.

I wonder if this is the same PR/Marketing staff that decided to put an unskippable ad in NFS: Hot Pursuit. I completely ignored Shift 1 because it didn't have any evasion/pursuit elements to it (I am an unrepentant arcade racer fan. To heck with sims) Thanks to that ad, I think I will be actively avoiding Shift 2.

JourneyThroughHell:
True that. Keeping a ton of cars managed is hard. Really hard. Still, you know, car enthuisasts enjoy that sort of stuff.

We'll see what garage you have to offer, Slightly Mad.

And people do like variety to some extent, so it's not JUST car enthusiasts. Though for GT, it probably is. ;)

dogstile:
Gran Tursimp 5?

Think you may have a spelling mistake there sir :P

Yeah, I can't believe they got Gran Turnip wrong.

when slightly mad are mad, they can make a very good game

RhombusHatesYou:

dogstile:
Gran Tursimp 5?

Think you may have a spelling mistake there sir :P

What are you talking about? The Gran Turnip franchise is the very best in vegetable simulation on the market.

It has over 1000 varieties of real world, fully rendered turnips.

Logan Westbrook:

EA has an uphill struggle with the Shift series, as its rivals have had much longer to go at it, but while it's refreshing to see a developer being so candid, Tudors comments about his rivals seem like they will do as much to harm Shift 2 as help it. There will be people - and considering we're talking about in-depth simulation games, there's likely to be a lot of them - who like the fact that GT5 and Forza 3 have a huge variety of different cars, and enjoy collecting them. Suggesting that there's something wrong with that probably isn't the best way to win them over.

Logan nailed it right here, I was considering picking up Shift and Shift 2, but after this, I am not, and neither are any of my friends, who all have Forza 2 and 3. We probably will be picking up Hot Pursuit because Criterion doesn't seem to want to alienate their customers.

Shift2? what happened to the NFS part of the name?

Still shift is the only arcadey racing game that managed to hold my attention in years barring GT so I'm not going to knock them, I hope that shift2 does well.

That said I loved racing my road version MX5, vx220, and 350Z in GT4 so to say they weren't worth having is simply untrue. We all love hammering race cars around a track but starting with an everyday car you might own yourself is a pleasure unto itself.

When I get GT5 I fully intend to drive the in game counterparts of my own Vauxhall VX220 and the wife's Prius.

while not all racing fans want a bajillion cars, the ones that do want a bagillion cars are the ones who buy the most games, so calling them stupid isnt a smart move. Maybe they see that there game is all arcade and no sim and to avoid bad reviews are trying to distance themselves from the sim side of racing.

Please get a clue Slightly Mad. GT is a simulation. A damn good one at that. It is completely different from your crappy arcade racer. Learn the difference please.

I'm sure that if you wanted all the cars you'd find a cheat to get them all. I'm a completist and I know what it's like to want to grind through just one more level to pick up the Rodin in Bayonetta or doing one of the obscure quests in Fallout to pick up A3-21's plasma rifle, but doing it hundreds of times? It would eventually lose its luster, at least with the hidden weapons/armour there's only a select amount, this feels like too much of a good thing.

Logically, what they should have done was make some of the really awesome and unique cars completely free but in order to get them you've got to do something insanely difficult, like get around a course in under a certain time, or finish a race in first place while driving the entire course in reverse. At least that way there's the essence of "challenge meets reward" and it'll be fun to attempt to earn the cars, instead of just grinding out cash in order to afford it.

I agree, though, a hundred cars is too much. You'd have to be a hardcore petrol-head to think that's a good idea.

GT5 made one off the most unforgiveable sins in gaming and that is it couldnt deliver on its promises and sacrififced it's release dates for the sake of head dev self gratification!

"sir we cant get the game running at 1080p like we promised our audience!"

"hmmm....MORE CARS! and knock he release date back"

"sir we cant get a constant 60 fps like we promised our audience!"

"hmmm...MORE CARS! and knock the release date back!"

I'm less annoyed at racing games for offering too many cars, but for me it's not offering enough variety in cars that ticks me off. Honestly, how cool would it be to pull a Top Gear and have motorhome racing modes?

Well I know what game I'm not buying. Looks like they're audience is casual NFS fans, and not people who take the racing genre a little more serioisly. Sure, I have a game where there are several cars I don't use, but I like to know they are there and the AI will use them. Variety is wonderful. Linear racing games are more repetitive than grinding.

Uh...Tudor's actually more full of shit than a whale without an asshole, I've had longstanding competitions with my co-workers/friends over the amount of cars unlocked/owned/percent of completion in GT3, 4 and as soon as the goddamn Collector's Edition gets here, 5.

Just because your game sells like shit, doesn't mean the competition doesn't have a winning formula. Suck it up, Nancy.

What an asshole. He obviously hasn't played his competitor's games. There's only four Corollas in GT:5, all from different years. There's only one version of an 80's Toyota Corolla in GT:5, and it's the historic Toyota Corolla Levin GT-APEX (AE86) '83. If Andy Tudor doesn't understand why that car is significant to racing enthusiasts and why they might enjoy a simulation that includes it, he might want to pick a different domain in which to situate his games.

Also, seems to be a lot of hate against GT:5.

Rusty Bucket:
I have to agree here. GT5 has a Toyota Prius in it. Yeah, that environmentally friendly hybrid car. What's worse, th Prius is a 'premium' car which means it's got a cockpit view and they spent months making certain every fine detail is absolutely perfect. Fucking Prius. The Buggati Veyron, however, is just a standard car, no cockpit view, lower res model, just generally worse. That makes no sense, no matter what way you look at it.

Until you factor in the fact that Toyota practically sponsors the game, they're home turf hombres with PD and Sony, and that Bugatti probably didn't want to pay for the custom cockpit and Toyota did. None of this is to say that I wouldn't like a Veyron cockpit view, I'm just pointing out that money is still at the bottom of most issues we have with the world.

I'm still gonna drive that Prius.

Hey, Slightly Mad. Have you figured out what dampers do yet?

Your first game was completely unplayable, had rubber band AI, had it's tuning options inverted and was bland and uninspired...

Who's irrelevant again?

NFS:Shift was a travesty. The only worse game in NFS history was Pro Street. Make a game that even compares to Forza or GT, then talk shit. This is getting embarrassing. For you.

Outlaw Torn:

RhombusHatesYou:

dogstile:
Gran Tursimp 5?

Think you may have a spelling mistake there sir :P

What are you talking about? The Gran Turnip franchise is the very best in vegetable simulation on the market.

It has over 1000 varieties of real world, fully rendered turnips.

Hasn't it been delayed again?

I think GT5 is just boring, but Shift didn't have enough customization and cars.
I really like Forza 3 as it has the best of both worlds.

Scrumpmonkey:
Well i did sum up the whole GT5 thing as "Herp Derp! 1000 carz!" which i still stand by but i don't think that Slightly Mad Studios is really in a position to attack Polyphony is any way since it does not seem to have any real achivements to it's name.

Did you mean, "isn't really in a position to attack Polyphony" ?

Anyway, I completely agree with them attacking GT about the amount of cars but not Forza.

Why? Well...

PD took 5 years to create a game with only 300 cars and 700 models/textures of pure bloat. And even of that 300 "premium cars" instead of more premium supercars and fun to race cars, they wasted their time on giving me things like a Volkswagen bus and a Toyota Prius IN A RACING GAME... Not to mention a lot of the other premium cars looked extremely half-assed IMHO. And dont even get me started on the tracks... They looked stunning in GT5:P but not in the full game (low res textures and 2D trees c'mon).

Turn 10 however could churn out a racing game with Arguably more actual content than GT5, and STILL model every car with the same amount of detail for each. So this means Im not stuck with around 150 "premium cars" that I actually might want to drive. Correct me if Im wrong, but I'm pretty sure the polygon count for cars in Forza 3 were quite similar to that of GT5.

The only thing GT5 has going for it right now is it's lighting system, it is breathtaking at times.

/Rant.

But the downfall for both games is the money system, that should only be for career mode. If Im racing in arcade mode or online I want to be able to race what I want, when I want. Not waste hours of my life trying to get the car I want to drive & personalize for a few races online or just deciding to do a nice quick race.

Well my 140+ car garage in Forza makes this guy an absolute moron. Mind you there are some cars that are in there multiple times in different classes, but still. I like a little variety. After a month or so I might just give that Toyota a try. There is something to be said for putting the EFFORT into the game to bring so many models to it. So maybe a couple of them drive the same, that sort of thing does happen in real life. As well Need for Speed hasn't seen a shred of realism since its first offering.

Its a pretty shallow excuse saying we're going to concentrate on the real cars. When really what your saying is, we don't have the budget to make a game like that. Because rendering all those different cars takes time and money. EA's only interest is to kick the game out the door as quickly and as cheaply as possible.

Thanks but I'll take any other racing game over Need for Speed these days. And Logan your exactly right. This isn't going to boost sales.

Sparrow:
I'm less annoyed at racing games for offering too many cars, but for me it's not offering enough variety in cars that ticks me off. Honestly, how cool would it be to pull a Top Gear and have motorhome racing modes?

Some of my nephews are gaming geeks as well as being revheads and they keep talking about how cool it would be to have a game based on ratrods and turning old shit heaps into speed machines.

I just wish sometimes they'd preface their ramblings on the cool mods they've done on cars with whether they are talking a game or what they've been up to with real cars. I do get about annoyed when they're talking about something fucked up awesome, asking them "What game did you do this in?" and have them look at me like I've forgotten to put on pants saying "Huh? I'm talking about what we did to Johnno's car last weekend." Took me 2 weeks to discover the turbo Getz with 20lb nitrous was a real car.

" who like the fact that GT5 and Forza 3 have a huge variety of different cars, and enjoy collecting them."

...nah, the entire point with GT is that all the cars handle in a unique way. So you find one you like more than the rest, and this makes the driving experience better. What's great about it is that PD are thorough enough to put in small quirks in how a Lancer snakes ahead on the road. Or add characteristic suspension properties on the BMW. Hit 100% on the mid-placed engine in a Lotus.. lots of things like that, on top of the very thoughtful physics engine.

Shift does the opposite - they take a racing car, and overplay the handling and the effects. That's why it was an arcade racer. Not a bad game... apart from the bugs, the broken steering mechanism, and the token and artificial way drift and weight-transfer was implemented. But it didn't simulate realism. It created a fun kind of realism that was more.. exciting than the real thing.

Not a bad idea, or anything, but accurate driving physics is exciting enough. And you don't want a game to be too tiring, after all..

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