Super Smash Creator Thinks Melee Was Too Hard

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Super Smash Creator Thinks Melee Was Too Hard

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The man who made the GameCube's best-selling title thinks the game wasn't nearly as accessible as it ought to have been.

Slightly over nine years ago, Super Smash Bros. Melee hit GameCubes all across North America. The followup to the quirky N64 platformer/fighter became the most popular game on the system, selling an impressive seven million copies around the world.

Looking back on the game in Famitsu (as translated by 1UP), however, creator Masahiro Sakurai says that the game was too technical - something he aimed to address in the Wii followup, Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

"I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said, though it ended up having the opposite effect. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance."

If there is ever a fourth Smash Bros., don't expect it to be a return to hardcore complexity, either. "[Even] if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

"If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in," Sakurai said in a statement that will sound familiar to anyone following Nintendo this generation, "then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details."

In other words, the game was never intended to be played with all items turned off on one of the boring flat maps like Final Destination. You know who you are, tournament players. You know who you are.

(1UP)

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Ah game tournaments and their banning of all the fun ...

I always thought Melee was beating me into the ground at times. Brawl still beats me, but not into the ground. Glad it wasn't just me making excuses.

I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

Two words.

Cruel. Brawl.

Could ANYONE do that!?

Huh. Melee remains my favorite Smash Bros. Game to date because there was a fair amount of complexity. I've never really thought of it as hard, even a lot of my friends who've never played games can pick up pretty easily. I thought melee perfectly followed the excellent adage "Easy to learn, hard to master."

Pokemon Stadium, only pokeballs, highest frequency occurence was my favourite combo, but I was more than happy to play pretty much any map.

Except the Donkey Kong ones. Screw you DK!

Who else read that Melee came out 9 years ago and thought, has it really been that long?

Broady Brio:
Two words.

Cruel. Brawl.

Could ANYONE do that!?

Yes, with ease actually. Use the Jigglypuff and just float back and forth under the stage and make them suicide. Takes a while and is kinda boring, but it gets the job done.

Broady Brio:
Two words.

Cruel. Brawl.

Could ANYONE do that!?

I did...
As Jigglypuff...
And kinda just exploited their AI...

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

What the hell kind of tournament limits your characters?

I used to play in tournaments. It was no items, but we could pick our characters, and both players had to agree on a stage if they didn't want to do Final Destination. I kicked ass with Samus. Those were good times.

I have a friend who likes taking the items off and restricting the stage to final destination... just takes the fun out of the game in my opinion!

Any map, Kirby or Captain Falcon. I thought Melee was fine personally, loved the maps.

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

I'd like to apologize beforehand, but this needs posting:


As for the OP, I disagree. Yeah it was pretty complex, but you could still easily pick it up and play.

Melee was great. Just because you may have trouble with some of the challenges, doesn't mean it's too hard. Having a character like Mewtwo to unlock made it tons more fun and long lasting, and it just seemed more fun than brawl to me. However having subspace emissary did make playing classic or adventure feel rather dull...

But I wouldn't class it as "too hard" just because not many people can get the super duper extreme completionist version of 100%.

And in Melee everyone felt equal, and could be equal even if new people came. Whereas whilest playing Brawl, me and my friends often complained about "noob" characters" that made multiplayer too easy to win.

Smash Bros. isn't about winning, but the fun had whilest attempting so!

Melee tournaments were so boring...
I actually did attend a tournament.
And dropped out 5 min later because, according to them,
"Mr. Game & Watch's matchups are too low, you would lose anyway. So choose another character please."

So yeah, there are tourneys that limit your characters...

I also found that wavedashing junk to look incredibly boring.
"LOLZ! I can move without actually walking!"
"Good for you! You've wrecked your, what, eighth controller now?"

Melee was the right type of hard. It had very fast reaction time and decent attacks so dodging became useful as opposed to standing still and just attacking once the other person stops rolling around.

TriggerUnhappy:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

I'd like to apologize beforehand, but this needs posting:


As for the OP, I disagree. Yeah it was pretty complex, but you could still easily pick it up and play.

Funny thing is the guy running the tournament bitched just like that XD

John Funk:
In other words, the game was never intended to be played with all items turned off on one of the boring flat maps like Final Destination. You know who you are, tournament players. You know who you are.

THANK YOU.

There are people in my friendship circle who feel this is the ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME. It's like choosing 'slappers only' in goldeneye on a custom-made map of one giant room. ("You can't make custom maps in goldeneye!" Shut up. Shut up you.)

There are options. There's several dozen items, and about 25 maps. In Brawl, you can make actual custom maps. Yes, I know the game is SUPPOSED to be about the characters, but seriously. If you make me do final destination with no items I'm going to choose either Meta Knight or Young Link and spam your ass. You don't like it? Fuck you then hypothetical friend of mine.

Why must they continue to dumb down all my favorite games? To me this is a slap in the face to the people that stuck with you over the years...

PS: You don't have to mention all the "money making" BS, I'm well aware of the business end of it... Still sucks though.

blalien:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

What the hell kind of tournament limits your characters?

I used to play in tournaments. It was no items, but we could pick our characters, and both players had to agree on a stage if they didn't want to do Final Destination. I kicked ass with Samus. Those were good times.

I think it was run by the fun police. Damn ass wipes woundn't even let me play as Kirby D:

I always thought Melee was a pick-up and play game, more so than brawl since it has so many more extra ways of doing things between the characters (recoveries being the main point) the only thing you need to get across to new players is the concept of "you must recover". I also didn't like the more "Kirby air ride" style of the menus.

Smash brothers always had the darker, more "Epic, universe-wide brawl" feel to it, which is one of it's main appeals, fighting as the famous nintendo characters.

I believe that Smash brothers is one of the easiest games in existence, especially with it's multilayer value.
...
...
...
Unless you're playing with "that guy" (quote crowshaw) and he has no regard for the skill level of the new players. "be kind to beginners" (quote Smashbros.com, it's on there somewhere)

Melee is a game I still play to this day, it's a great game with lots of ways to improve, go in-depth and have complexity. it's playable 4 player FFA with people that have only picked it up that very afternoon, and have a complete blast doing so, but at the same time allowing tournament players to have really high-level play and pull off amazing stuff. It wasn't hard, it was complex.

Easy to learn. Hard to master.

Sach:
Why must they continue to dumb down all my favorite games? To me this is a slap in the face to the people that stuck with you over the years...

PS: You don't have to mention all the "money making" BS, I'm well aware of the business end of it... Still sucks though.

I don't think Brawl was really all that dumb down...
Well, I don't see it, anyway...

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I think it was run by the fun police. Damn ass wipes woundn't even let me play as Kirby D:

Was it for the same bullshit reason I couldn't play as Game & Watch?

Dioxide20:
Who else read that Melee came out 9 years ago and thought, has it really been that long?

Ditto.

But really? I never noticed this, and I was playing when I was 9.

I always thought it was easily the best in the series. I didn't think it was too hard, it was amazing.

Matrixbeast:

Sach:
Why must they continue to dumb down all my favorite games? To me this is a slap in the face to the people that stuck with you over the years...

PS: You don't have to mention all the "money making" BS, I'm well aware of the business end of it... Still sucks though.

I don't think Brawl was really all that dumb down...
Well, I don't see it, anyway...

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I think it was run by the fun police. Damn ass wipes woundn't even let me play as Kirby D:

Was it for the same bullshit reason I couldn't play as Game & Watch?

Brawl really wasn't, I was commenting more on the "I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was" statement, and the fact that this type of sentiment seems to be the common theme of developers these days.

Patrick_and_the_ricks:

TriggerUnhappy:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

I'd like to apologize beforehand, but this needs posting:


As for the OP, I disagree. Yeah it was pretty complex, but you could still easily pick it up and play.

Funny thing is the guy running the tournament bitched just like that XD

Wouldn't doubt it, only an idiot would be so damn serious about a local tournament.

First off, FINAL DESTINATION IS BADASS!

Second, this is just another game creator BAWWWWWWing about how people like their older stuff comapred to the newer shtie they feed to us now.

Square Enix did it just a few months ago.

Oh god.... stop watering down games if you want anyone to play either have the AI play itself or make the defult setting super easy as anyone with a brain can use the menu to change it to normal or hard

Not a Spy:
Huh. Melee remains my favorite Smash Bros. Game to date because there was a fair amount of complexity. I've never really thought of it as hard, even a lot of my friends who've never played games can pick up pretty easily. I thought melee perfectly followed the excellent adage "Easy to learn, hard to master."

My thoughts exactly. I can still pick up and play Melee today because it had such a great feel. In fact, I felt that the combat in Brawl was a step down from Melee.

I LOVE BRAWL!!!!

It's my favourite game at the moment, and has been for a while. It's just so much damn fun, and even my eight year old sister can play it and beat me! I do have Melee, but I haven't touched it since I got Brawl.

The gameplay is just awesome :D and the Story Mode is tons of fun. It beats the hell out of any other fighting game, because it never gets boring. There's always something new getting thrown into the mix.

...

FALCON PUNCH!!

I just can't wrap my head around Sakurai's thought processes. You want to make the game accessible? Okay, easily done. But why does that somehow mean the elements that make the game competitive have to go out the window?

Just look at Pokemon. At its simplest, it's Dragon Quest lite with cute monsters and fun characters. Everyone loves it because it's so easy to just get in there and do your thing. At its most competitive, on the other hand, it's one of the most complex PVP games ever made (yeah, I said it). Obviously, both playstyles are incredibly different, but neither exists as a detriment to the other. It's the perfect balance.

Melee, I feel, reached that balance. It was easy to pick up and play, and if you wanted to take the time to plumb the game's depths, you'd find it's a reasonably complex fighter. Brawl does pretty well in this department, too, but it's obvious that it's been changed to snip out the bits that make the game more competitive, and that's a damn shame.

Of course, it's all a moot point because Smash has one of the worst competitive communities in gaming.

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
I think it was run by the fun police. Damn ass wipes woundn't even let me play as Kirby D:

I think I can top that. I played in a tournament a few years ago. I didn't really want to but the cash prize was pretty substantial. The tournament was run by a woman who had absolutely no idea what she was doing. She lost the memory card so she banned all "secret characters." That actually helped me, as I didn't have to deal with Marth. But then she made each round 4 players, stock 5, with a 4 minute timer. You can facepalm now.

In the first round, I killed off players two and three, while player four hid most of the time, so we were both at three lives when the timer ran out. Then when Sudden Death started, my finger slipped and the other guy got off the first shot. I was pretty pissed off. Definitely didn't play any more tournaments with them after that.

Sounds like he's talking apples and oranges to me. There really is no link between approachability/accessibility and depth/balance. A well designed game, not just in the realm of fighting games, can and should have both.

Oh well, I never really got much into any of the Smash Bros games but I know there are players out there who used to always use Melee as the defense that the SSB games really are solid fighters. It appears that even if they were right about Melee, even the designer himself feels that's a black sheep in the series that he doesn't want to revisit.

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