Scientists Debate Magical DNA Teleportation

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Scientists Debate Magical DNA Teleportation

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Much to the chagrin of some, a Nobel-winning scientist insists that DNA can effectively teleport itself to nearby cells.

In many sci-fi stories, teleportation is achieved by digitizing the human body and sending it, at lightspeed, somewhere else to be re-assembled. According to Luc Montagnier, DNA already does this.

Rousing the ire of many chemists, Montagnier is shopping a paper around for publication which essentially states that DNA emits a weak electromagnetic field which can imprint the information contained in the molecule via a bunch of quantum stuff which I'm just going to call "magic". Using this "magic", the DNA imprints its genetic information in nearby water strong enough that the enzymes in cells responsible for copying DNA mistake it for being real DNA. They then go about their business of copying this ghost-DNA, producing a real copy of the teleported genetic information.

To prove this, Montagnier sealed 2 test tubes away from the earth's magnetic field, one containing a 100 base long strand of DNA, and one containing pure water. He proceeded to do a bunch of science things I don't understand, but essentially he put them in a copper coil and applied an electromagnetic field of 7 hertz to the two tubes. He then ran the contents of the tubes through a polymerase chain reaction, which basically is an enzyme that copies DNA. The DNA string was found in both tubes.

Like I said, magic.

The experiment has not yet been peer-reviewed or even officially published, so it could all be a figment of Montagnier's imagination, but that doesn't prevent the results from causing a stir in the scientific community. "If the results are correct, these would be the most significant experiments performed in the past 90 years, demanding re-evaluation of the whole conceptual framework of modern chemistry," says theoretical chemist Jeff Reimers of the University of Sydney.

Not everyone agrees with Reimers, however. Klaus Gerwert, an expert in how water and biomolecules interact says, "It is hard to understand how the information can be stored within water over a timescale longer than picoseconds." Felix Franks, known for helping to debunk similar findings in a 1988 paper, says "The structure would be destroyed instantly. Water has no 'memory'. You can't make an imprint in it and recover it later."

I don't know about you, but I am eagerly awaiting some peer-reviewers to determine, for certain, if I am built of magically teleporting quantum molecules.

Source: New Scientist

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It's not teleportation per say, it's more akin to sending somone a copy of a file over the internet.

Still cool none the less.

Star Trek here we come. Oh yeah.

I get that you dont get it, but you really should try to do something instead of just calling it magic. Unintentionally, you white washed this entire article to set up this guy as some sort of loon and wizard, when he could be on the edge of a major break through that could be the break through on teleportation.

EDIT: not that I would get it if I saw, but someone who did could probably explain it more simply.

The U.S. Navy already did this. Allegedly.

Ship called The U.S.S. Eldridge, based in Philadelphia. Part of a big Experiment.

On a slightly more scientific note, Quantum Mirroring or the "Butterfly Effect" has been theorised since the birth of Quantum Mechanics.

I'll be extremely surprised if we've got to it this soon though, and astonished if it's actually controllable.

Is someone doing magic in here?

Total nonsense. The fact that this guy would even conceive such a ludicrous experiment points to him being a nutjob, nevermind the "results".

Hooray for science! But, really, sometimes science needs to call Bullshit on itself. Although, if said Bullshit proves to be whats actually happening, we need to devise a way to replicate the way our DNA is imprinting itself across tiny, tiny distances. But, should we actually have a controlled way to make it only tiny distances, I would be impressed.

Clarke's Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Tho im not sure theres technology here XD

Pretty neat. Lets see what becomes of it. Science isnt based on opinion, so if the experiment can be replicated this man would be on to something!

Woah no, no way.

Extensive double blind studies are required.

its actually more common than one would suspect for old nobel winners and other distinguished scientists to get a little bonkey and start submitting strange papers in later life.

This is either a great step forward for science or there is more bullshit here than a dairy farm.

Meh, I've heard of crazier stuff in quantum physics. Now quantum entanglement, that's magic.

These stories pop up every so & so, just to keep people dreaming. Last time it was some University in the UK had managed to 'teleport' an atom sized particle a whole micron to the left. Amazing? yes! Did it happen? Did it fuck.

Aside from the somewhat biased article, There does seem to be a degree of potential in this. However the problem occurs not in the concept of teleportation but that of replication.

Note that the findings suggest, not that the DNA moved from point A to point B, but it copied itself from Point A to point B. Thing of it is that tiny little difference makes all the difference because you move from a technology with little moral ambiguity to one ripe with it.

What I do find interesting is that this presents the concept of Organic based science over techological based science, which always seemed to me to be the difference between what we considered science, and magic.

Scott Bullock:
which I'm just going to call "magic".

It makes for a fun read but you realize you've just tilted 90% of the readers to cry "what a loon" right?

The_root_of_all_evil:
U.S.S. Eldridge, based in Philadelphia. Part of a big Experiment..

Well not that I believe the operation Rainbow story but that was supposed to be a cloaking field. Even if that was remotely possible in the 1940's it's not the same thing.

It just goes to show you, living in double plural zones does some crazy stuff to your DNA.

Scott Bullock:
Shnip

"To prove this, Montagnier sealed 2 test tubes away from the earth's magnetic field, "

I think it might have been better to say make the word "away" into "isolated," because on my first reading I believed that the experiments happened in space.

I might be the only one, though..

That would certainly be interesting if true, if not I kind of feel bad for the author of the paper. This is the kind of crap that your career will not recover from.

DNA emits a weak electromagnetic field which can imprint the information contained in the molecule via a bunch of quantum stuff which I'm just going to call "magic"

You mean... A Mass Effect :P

Though it is used in a completely different application in mass effect, electromagnetic fields are used to create the Mass effect.

In honor of Bioware stepping on this by accident can we call it mass effect instead of magic :P
Its more appropriate for the escapists forums at least.

--------

On a serious level this is very interesting, yet confusing.

Oh shit...

Suddenly this makes sense.

I officially hate everything now.

Im a firein mah magicz

If anyone wishes to read the original paper, it's here:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1012/1012.5166v1.pdf

SmokePants:
Total nonsense. The fact that this guy would even conceive such a ludicrous experiment points to him being a nutjob, nevermind the "results".

I'm sure those religious folks back in dark ages named scientists (and those who created medicines and such that the stuff we used today is based on) "nutjobs" and "loons" too.
Just because something seems like it's from a crazy person now, doesn't mean that it has no signifigance in the future.

Comando96:

DNA emits a weak electromagnetic field which can imprint the information contained in the molecule via a bunch of quantum stuff which I'm just going to call "magic"

You mean... A Mass Effect :P

yeah I just burst out laughing xD thanks I needed that

I immediately thought of "The Prestige"

This... sounds very much like the absolute crap that homeopathy is supposed to be based on. That water can 'remember' stuff that was put in it, from which they can then sell pills that don't actually have /any/ active ingredients in them and claim that it's functional medicine.

Homeopathy has failed every legitimate, large subject group test it has ever been put to. It should have passed them if it was possible for water to 'remember' DNA in a similar way, so I'm pretty darn skeptical and I'll want a detailed explanation of why this new thing works and Homeopathy does not.

But!

This is why we have a peer review process. After all, it seems this guy did more than just distill a few dissolved atoms several hundred times until nothing was left. If he actually has done what he thinks, then damn. Prepare for hard drives to come with cases to keep the water in them from sloshing around and destroying your music files.

Jabberwock xeno:
It's not teleportation per say, it's more akin to sending somone a copy of a file over the internet.

Still cool none the less.

They mean like transporters in Star Trek. That's already sort of like sending a copy of a file over the internet.

Or magic. Magic works.

Well, if I would bet on it, my money would be on the "nutjob" option. If, however, I'm proved wrong, I'll give y'all my telephone number and the permission to call me and say I'm a "religious folk coming from the dark ages".


If I read the introduction (See spoiler) correctly (thanks AC10 for the link to the article!) they tried to separate Mycoplasma pirum (a bacterium) from HIV with a filter. Then they added growth medium to the HIV solution, and after a while when no bacteria were found growing in the solution they called it bacteria-free and added the solution to cells which the HIV virus would infect. When later in this last solution bacteria were found, they suggest they ?grew? out of DNA? Seems like an enormous ass-pull to me. Bacteria need A LOT MORE than only DNA to grow. What about ribozymes? Membranes?
Is it really harder to believe the solution got spoiled than to believe in a miracle?
EDIT: relevant piece of article added.

Creos:
This... sounds very much like the absolute crap that homeopathy is supposed to be based on. That water can 'remember' stuff that was put in it, from which they can then sell pills that don't actually have /any/ active ingredients in them and claim that it's functional medicine.

Homeopathy has failed every legitimate, large subject group test it has ever been put to. It should have passed them if it was possible for water to 'remember' DNA in a similar way, so I'm pretty darn skeptical and I'll want a detailed explanation of why this new thing works and Homeopathy does not.

But!

This is why we have a peer review process. After all, it seems this guy did more than just distill a few dissolved atoms several hundred times until nothing was left. If he actually has done what he thinks, then damn. Prepare for hard drives to come with cases to keep the water in them from sloshing around and destroying your music files.

The homeopathy similarity was my first thought was well. One of the key questions (sorry, haven't looked at the original paper yet) is going to be what he did for blanks and how clean his process was. The entire point of PCR is that amplifies small ammounts of DNA in order to let you see them, so any hint of contamination in a case like this will quickly invalidate the results.

Considering the state of homeopathy in general, and the fact that he felt the need to isolate this from the earth's magnetic field (which doesn't actually happen most of the time outside a lab), I'm highly skeptical.

Caylus:
Bacteria need A LOT MORE than only DNA to grow. What about ribozymes? Membranes?
Is it really harder to believe the solution got spoiled than to believe in a miracle?

Just a thought, while I agree with your conclusion that the most likely explanation is contamination, I think you have their conclusion slightly wrong.

They don't believe that bacteria grew from the water memory, merely that the PCR process was able to create a copy of the bacterial DNA based on the electrochemical memory of the water that managed to 'store' the signature of the DNA, and that this also happens in living cells as a method of DNA reproduction.

The_root_of_all_evil:
The U.S. Navy already did this. Allegedly.

Ship called The U.S.S. Eldridge, based in Philadelphia. Part of a big Experiment.

On a slightly more scientific note, Quantum Mirroring or the "Butterfly Effect" has been theorised since the birth of Quantum Mechanics.

I'll be extremely surprised if we've got to it this soon though, and astonished if it's actually controllable.

If I'm not mistaken it caused quite a controversy amongst ufologists ... but wasn't the entire experiment debunked as a hoax?

It could have just been an elabourate joke however .... Eldridge ... very close to Eldritch.... from Middle English 'Eldrich', which means 'the unseemly' :P

As in ... this stuff is fucking ARCANE bitches ;P And the Navy/hoaxers were having one big joke? Just because something is governmental doesn't mean the people suddenly lose their sense of humour.

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to believe that people's and the planets electromagnetic fields are so intertwined. On a purely scientific and evolutionary level, everything on the planet evolved as it is today on this planet. Migratory birds, for example determine their path at least partially according to earths magnetic fields. And all things on this planet produce a magnetic field. Yet it is outside believability that cells have a way of copying DNA that science is only now potentially discovering.

Creos:
This... sounds very much like the absolute crap that homeopathy is supposed to be based on. That water can 'remember' stuff that was put in it, from which they can then sell pills that don't actually have /any/ active ingredients in them and claim that it's functional medicine.

Homeopathy has failed every legitimate, large subject group test it has ever been put to. It should have passed them if it was possible for water to 'remember' DNA in a similar way, so I'm pretty darn skeptical and I'll want a detailed explanation of why this new thing works and Homeopathy does not.

You shouldn't lump all forms of homeopathic medicine together. That is just stupid. There are many forms of it, and a lot of them are bullshit. Then there are some that are very effective, two that immediately jump to mind are herbology and "Japanese" Acupuncture. Many have argued, and quite successfully for some, that simply because science is only just catching up to them, doesn't mean they don't work or are ineffective. I myself had an acupuncture treatment that pretty much cured my blown knee. I went from limping and wearing a knee brace 24/7 to walking unassisted without a limp since then. I met a guy who every doctor in the book said he would never walk again, walking up and down stairs, going to the bathroom and everything. He shattered his C4 and C5 Vertebrae in a diving accident.

On the flip side, I once met someone who was convinced Acupuncture could cure her cancer, and that didn't work out. Both sides of the argument are completely legitimate. Usually, in Western thought, breaking it down and codifying it makes it work and makes the spread of the knowledge better. In Eastern though, things go deeper than what can be transmitted in books. There are examples of both things being true though.

On a final note, this is not at all DNA "transportation" as much as it is DNA copying. Cells have been doing this since they have existed in a multi-cellular system, and I know for a fact that not all forms of cellular reproduction are understood completely.

Misterpinky:
Star Trek here we come. Oh yeah.

I hope not, those teleporters don't actually teleport you, they really just kill you and then clone you somewhere else.

I really don't want to sound pretentious, but as someone who works with DNA I find it extremely difficult to believe that DNA was replicated using water as a template. It raises a lot of questions that I'm sure will come up in peer review. I could be mistaken, but it appears that this has been submitted for publication, but not actually accepted and published. I would wait and see where this article ends up before taking it too seriously.

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