Duke Nukem Forever: Steamworks and Sexy Hats

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So if I buy DNF on ps3, can I download it on steam aswell or vice versa? Is it kinda like Portal 2?

Sgt. Sykes:

lacktheknack:
Tell us how you really feel. I still haven't gotten a decent anti-Steam argument.

If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever. I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection. That way, the only thing I need to download AFTER BUYING THE GAME is a little crack. With games requiring Steam, I'd need to download the whole fucking game from torrent sites, which means they'll call me a pirate. Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games. If I don't like the game, I don't want to see it in my Steam account. I want to be able to sell it without hassle.

The last retail game I bought that uses Steam(works) still lies unopened on my shelf. Good riddance too. If I'd have to be reminded about that piece of shit K&L2 every time I fired up Steam, I'd have to shoot myself.

Your loss.

Levi93:
So if I buy DNF on ps3, can I download it on steam aswell? Is it kinda like Portal 2?

No. Not even close.

I guess Duke will be #101 on my Steam list.

I have to wonder what sorts of pre-order offers we will be getting in Sweden. Not putting down any pre-orders for a while so I'll have time to find out.

Levi93:
So if I buy DNF on ps3, can I download it on steam aswell or vice versa? Is it kinda like Portal 2?

They haven't said anything about it being a Steamworks game on the PS3, so most likely you can't.

lacktheknack:

Levi93:
So if I buy DNF on ps3, can I download it on steam aswell? Is it kinda like Portal 2?

No. Not even close.

Oh right OK, I just assumed that cause it was on steamworks it would mean I could get 2 copies.

I hope they incorporate this sometime in the future cause I dont want to have to buy two copies of the same game just so I can play with 2 different sets of friends.

lacktheknack:
Your loss.

Nope. 30 € loss for 3DR, Take2, Gearbox, Valve and some retailer.

I think Duke Nukem is ALWAYS in Big Head Mode...

Sgt. Sykes:

lacktheknack:
Tell us how you really feel. I still haven't gotten a decent anti-Steam argument.

If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever. I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection. That way, the only thing I need to download AFTER BUYING THE GAME is a little crack. With games requiring Steam, I'd need to download the whole fucking game from torrent sites, which means they'll call me a pirate. Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games. If I don't like the game, I don't want to see it in my Steam account. I want to be able to sell it without hassle.

The last retail game I bought that uses Steam(works) still lies unopened on my shelf. Good riddance too. If I'd have to be reminded about that piece of shit K&L2 every time I fired up Steam, I'd have to shoot myself.

"Background program that delays running the game." What are you using, a Commodore 64?

I
Want
That
Hat

....What makes my wallet cry is Portal 2 is coming out in the same time neighborhood. GAAH the choices!

lacktheknack:

linwolf:

Woodsey:

Wha-

Bu-

You have 53 games on Steam!

And I never paid more than 15 for any of them and if you remove three never more than 10. I might stress it to 20 if the game seemed really good but any more and the DRM would make it a no go for me.
I never said steam was bad it is for older game that GOG doesn't have and you can't get anywhere else or game on a really good sale where the cheaper price make up for the DRM. But buying a new game, never.

What DRM?

Yeah, short post, but I still haven't gotten an answer for this either.

The DRM that comes as part of Steam, which is non-invasive and non-draconian. Neither Gearbox nor 2K has ever implemented anything worse than what comes with Steam, so I don't know what this guy's complaint is. Except for the money part. Which is understandable if you don't have a job or parents to buy everything for you.

samsonguy920:
I
Want
That
Hat

....What makes my wallet cry is Portal 2 is coming out in the same time neighborhood. GAAH the choices!

Portal 2 is being developed on Valve time. Only believe the release dates when their games go gold.

Hi, im just gonna deconstruct this argument a bit...

Sgt. Sykes:
If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever.

Simply does not happen anymore. Case example: Old Xbox games on the 360 and the extinction of the 3-and-a-half-inch floppy disc.

I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

The only hassle Steam has ever given me from its end is waiting for updates to finish, logging in and the occasional server bork. I dont know where you get background program from, as it only really does anything when youre playing games through it.

I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection.

Which was scrapped because it was easy to bypass, and DRM isnt a big improvement.

With games requiring Steam, I'd need to download the whole fucking game from torrent sites, which means they'll call me a pirate.

You think using Steam makes you a pirate? If Steam was a torrent site it wouldnt openly state that Valve runs it.

Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games.

Its done automatically. No user input required.

If I don't like the game, I don't want to see it in my Steam account. I want to be able to sell it without hassle.

OK, thats actually justified.

The last retail game I bought that uses Steam(works) still lies unopened on my shelf. Good riddance too. If I'd have to be reminded about that piece of shit K&L2 every time I fired up Steam, I'd have to shoot myself.

Buying one shit game, even K&L2, is not a justification to not use a distribution platform.

lacktheknack:
The only remotely valid point you have is reselling, but I can't relate as I only buy games I know I'll enjoy.

The key to success!

What if I want the hat, and the balls of steel edition?

Johnnyallstar:
What if I want the hat, and the balls of steel edition?

Buy the Balls of Steel at Wal-Mart, I imagine.

sheic99:
Is it weird that I assumed the hat would be in Team Fortress 2?

I made the same assumption (despite I don't play TF2).

Woodsey:

How come?

I hate not having control over what I own, steams makes modding a lot harder. It makes it so I can play with friend without updating (not all updates are for the better). Valve can whenever they want ban you and remove you ability to play you games. It is an extra login screen whenever I want to play a game. Now these things it can accept for ten bucks but for full retail price I will rather use my money elsewhere.

Sgt. Sykes:

lacktheknack:
Tell us how you really feel. I still haven't gotten a decent anti-Steam argument.

If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever. I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection. That way, the only thing I need to download AFTER BUYING THE GAME is a little crack. With games requiring Steam, I'd need to download the whole fucking game from torrent sites, which means they'll call me a pirate. Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games. If I don't like the game, I don't want to see it in my Steam account. I want to be able to sell it without hassle.

The last retail game I bought that uses Steam(works) still lies unopened on my shelf. Good riddance too. If I'd have to be reminded about that piece of shit K&L2 every time I fired up Steam, I'd have to shoot myself.

I am not sure you really know how Steam really works. You purchase a game with Steamworks, it gets tied into your FREE Steam account which you can access anywhere. If you get tired of a game you can uninstall it, then you can download it again with zero wear and tear on your DVD if you purchased it separately. Of course in this case it pays to have a good bandwidth. If you don't, you can still reinstall it through the disk if you purchased a hard copy. If you currently have dial-up speed on your internet service, I feel your pain, but the hard truth is there is more and more digital service that some of us are being left out on. But there are very few games on Steam that are not also available in hard copy. If you can't be bothered to reinstall the disk, then I can't feel sympathy for you there.
However, if you are able to download games with ease through torrent sites, then you should be having zero problems downloading through Steam. In which case your argument is flawed, in which it sounds more that you feel better about pirating games than you do buying them legitimately. In which case....
No Hat for You.

Andy Chalk:
[snip]
virtual t-shirt pack.

That might possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I stopped reading right there and had to scratch my head for a second...

I guess thrown in with everything else it's a bit of a throw-away, but I still just think it's kinda dumb.

linwolf:

Woodsey:

How come?

I hate not having control over what I own, steams makes modding a lot harder. It makes it so I can play with friend without updating (not all updates are for the better). Valve can whenever they want ban you and remove you ability to play you games. It is an extra login screen whenever I want to play a game. Now these things it can accept for ten bucks but for full retail price I will rather use my money elsewhere.

- All your normal game files are found in the Steam folder
- Turn auto-updates off
- Rarely happens by mistake, very easy to avoid if you just use it how you're meant to
- Tick auto-login

linwolf:

Woodsey:

How come?

I hate not having control over what I own, steams makes modding a lot harder. It makes it so I can play with friend without updating (not all updates are for the better). Valve can whenever they want ban you and remove you ability to play you games. It is an extra login screen whenever I want to play a game. Now these things it can accept for ten bucks but for full retail price I will rather use my money elsewhere.

Valve won't actually prevent you from playing games you purchased legitimately yourself, they just can prevent you from receiving updates and playing Valve-specific games online. But if they do ban you, then you can bet they had a very good reason to which they would be more than willing to stand up to in court. So unless you are into doing illegal things with your games and internet, you really have nothing to worry about there. Just make sure you keep your account secure.
Now if by modding you mean adding or tweaking gameplay features like laser sights on Left4Dead, then Valve has zero problem with that and I haven't heard any modders complain about having difficulties implementing that. In face Valve endorses game mods.
If by modding you mean hacking Steam itself to do different things like change access to games and affecting other people's accounts, then you are entitled to your very own Steam Ban and I feel no sympathy for you. Last time I checked, the code for Steam is owned by Valve. If and when Steam goes out of style, I wouldn't be surprised if Valve makes the code for it open source. At that time you can mod the hell out of it to your satisfaction. But until then, be happy with what you have, or don't touch it.

lacktheknack:
And the potential enjoyment you could have gotten from the game has been lost because you're so petty.

Dude, I have more than 80 old $5 games on Steam. I know how that thing works. I just don't want to use it anymore. BTW the whole selling point of Steam is that games require it; thus you have more and more games in your Steam account; thus you buy more and more games for/with Steam. Good business strategy, but from my POV as a customer, I really despise it.

gigastar:
Hi, im just gonna deconstruct this argument a bit...

See above. I know what it is. I just don't like it. Really don't like it.

You think using Steam makes you a pirate? If Steam was a torrent site it wouldnt openly state that Valve runs it.
Its done automatically. No user input required.

I was misunderstood. My way of buying games is:

1) Buy game
2) Prior to install, learn about its copy protection
3) Download a small, reliable crack
4) Download updates
5) Install the game
6) Install updates
7) Before running, apply the game (SecuRom gets installed on first startup), remove disk, play.

With Steam, it's:
1) Buy game
2) Download the whole fucking game from the torrent (thus making myself a pirate) to circumvent Steam
3) Use other means of installation and applying the cracks
4) Play game
5) Game is fucked up, needs update. Retail update file is not available.
6) Downloading the whole fucking game again, this time already patched.
goes on.

(Yeah, 6 steps instead of 7, I know, but it takes ages.)

Now compare with, say, H.A.W.X:
1) Buy game
2) Install game
3) Download patch, install patch
4) Remove disk, play game

BTW before that 'last retail game that requires Steam', I bought other two: one of them took TWO HOURS TO INSTALL because it kept doing something with Steam. User experience ftw.

lacktheknack:

samsonguy920:
I
Want
That
Hat

....What makes my wallet cry is Portal 2 is coming out in the same time neighborhood. GAAH the choices!

Portal 2 is being developed on Valve time. Only believe the release dates when their games go gold.

I can only hope it gets delayed like until late summer at least. If I have to choose between Portal 2 and Duke Nukem Forever, I will go for the Duke.

and die inside as I listen to people tell me how much fun they are having with Portal 2.

It's going to be on Steam and with Steamworks even. Awesome.

dncornholio

gigastar:
Hi, im just gonna deconstruct this argument a bit...

Sgt. Sykes:
If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever.

Simply does not happen anymore. Case example: Old Xbox games on the 360 and the extinction of the 3-and-a-half-inch floppy disc.

It still exist on the PC but is dying fast because people have stop caring.

I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

The only hassle Steam has ever given me from its end is waiting for updates to finish, logging in and the occasional server bork. I dont know where you get background program from, as it only really does anything when youre playing games through it.

That is all minor things people have just accepted but you paid a lot of money for the game, if I had a car that wouldn't start all time, I would be pissed. Any annoys that means that my friend laughs at me for buying legal has some big problems.

I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection.

Which was scrapped because it was easy to bypass, and DRM isnt a big improvement.

Steam is just as easily bypassed a simple google and it's done.

Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games.

Its done automatically. No user input required.

This annoys the hell out of me, it's a hassle not to get the update. And if you get it and find you don't like it there are no getting rid of it.

Sgt. Sykes:
Dude, I have more than 80 old $5 games on Steam. I know how that thing works. I just don't want to use it anymore. BTW the whole selling point of Steam is that games require it; thus you have more and more games in your Steam account; thus you buy more and more games for/with Steam. Good business strategy, but from my POV as a customer, I really despise it.

Distribution on Steam and DRM through Steam are the developers choices, not Valves. The rest is just making you sound paranoid of the digital age we are all moving into, like it or not.

With Steam, it's:
1) Buy game
2) Download the whole fucking game from the torrent (thus making myself a pirate) to circumvent Steam
3) Use other means of installation and applying the cracks
4) Play game
5) Game is fucked up, needs update. Retail update file is not available.
6) Downloading the whole fucking game again, this time already patched.
goes on.

How can you claim to understand Steam then claim that you circumvent it? Buying, downloading and installing through Steam is not illeagal in any way, whereas buying the game on Steam to download it from an illeagal torrent site then cracking it into the Steam file doesnt make you any better than the pirates who dont pay for it. It makes you look a bit of an idiot actually.

If your internet bandwidth happens to be an issue, you should pursue an upgrade.

Woodsey:

linwolf:

Woodsey:

How come?

I hate not having control over what I own, steams makes modding a lot harder. It makes it so I can play with friend without updating (not all updates are for the better). Valve can whenever they want ban you and remove you ability to play you games. It is an extra login screen whenever I want to play a game. Now these things it can accept for ten bucks but for full retail price I will rather use my money elsewhere.

- All your normal game files are found in the Steam folder
- Turn auto-updates off
- Rarely happens by mistake, very easy to avoid if you just use it how you're meant to
- Tick auto-login

Yes you can stop the game from updating but then you can't play with friend, me and my friend perfer a early version of warcaft 3 if the game was on steam that was a no go. And if your games updates and you find that you don't like it, then you can't go back to an early version any more.
And it's not that I am afraid to get ban, it's that they can. You paid for it they shouldn't be in command.
I don't like having to many programs running in the background.

This is so great. Its all coming together so nicely for the Duke's comeback. I love all the cheese here.

Sgt. Sykes:

samsonguy920:
However, if you are able to download games with ease through torrent sites, then you should be having zero problems downloading through Steam.

If I buy a game and don't want to use Steam despite the fact it's required, how do I install it? Torrent.

That is your choice to make, but take into account that the torrent service has no legal backing to help you when things go wrong, and also no reason to even give you what you expect to get. If someone along the line decides to toss in some code that turns into a trojan or such, who are you going to complain to? You can't take it to civil court as you are already doing something illegal, nor can you expect any sympathy from the provider who is doing their own illegal acts.
As I said, this is up to you how you want to do it. If you are having problems with Steam to the point of frustration, I have to wonder if your PC setup is to the point of being substandard to other Steam users who don't have this problem. Steam itself has low requirements, it is still compatible with Windows 98 and Pentium 4 processors and even more dated processors.
I can understand a certain amount of mistrust to Steam when it seems to be into about everything, but I find that using a service that is legally bound to keep its system secure to providing service is better than going to a private service that has no reason to provide safe and secure service to any recipients when every act along the way is legally questionable.
I am in no way throwing my support for DRM, especially the such thrown about like Ubisoft and EA's support of SecuROM(shudder). But Steam's form of DRM doesn't actually require Steam to be online all the time, nor does it invade my system to rewrite code that could throw a monkey wrench into unrelated programs. Nor do they use personal info in their security practice.
And I am fine with that.

Sgt. Sykes:
Dude, I have more than 80 old $5 games on Steam. I know how that thing works. I just don't want to use it anymore. BTW the whole selling point of Steam is that games require it; thus you have more and more games in your Steam account; thus you buy more and more games for/with Steam. Good business strategy, but from my POV as a customer, I really despise it.

No one is forcing anyone to buy new games. I don't see a problem.

My way of buying games is:

1) Buy game
2) Prior to install, learn about its copy protection
3) Download a small, reliable crack

Crack's are bad, mmkay.

4) Download updates
5) Install the game
6) Install updates
7) Before running, apply the game (SecuRom gets installed on first startup), remove disk, play.

With Steam, it's:
1) Buy game
2) Download the whole fucking game from the torrent (thus making myself a pirate) to circumvent Steam

You don't download games from torrents with Steam. You don't need to circumvent it. I don't even...

3) Use other means of installation and applying the cracks
4) Play game
5) Game is fucked up, needs update. Retail update file is not available.

In my experience, you got updates through Steam, as soon as they are available, automatically even if you let it.

6) Downloading the whole fucking game again, this time already patched.

This isn't necessary

goes on.

(Yeah, 6 steps instead of 7, I know, but it takes ages.)

Now compare with, say, H.A.W.X:
1) Buy game
2) Install game
3) Download patch, install patch
4) Remove disk, play game

How it actually works with Steam:

  • Buy the game from the comfort of your own computer
  • Let Steam download the game. Steam installs the game automatically
  • Play the game
  • I don't know what seems to be so magnificent about patches, but if any have been released before buying the game, they are included. If patches are released later, they will be automatically applied.

    BTW before that 'last retail game that requires Steam', I bought other two: one of them took TWO HOURS TO INSTALL because it kept doing something with Steam. User experience ftw.

    I'm not saying you should like Steam. It's just that you shouldn't say "facts" about it that simply aren't true.

    And I thought we were on the same side, oh well.

    linwolf:

    gigastar:
    Hi, im just gonna deconstruct this argument a bit...

    Sgt. Sykes:
    If I buy a game on a freakin' DVD, I want to be able to play it forever.

    Simply does not happen anymore. Case example: Old Xbox games on the 360 and the extinction of the 3-and-a-half-inch floppy disc.

    It still exist on the PC but is dying fast because people have stop caring.

    Truth be told I know it still exists out there somewhere, but I have never seen any computer post-dating 2005 that came with a floppy port.

    I won't accept any stupid background program which will delay running the game.

    The only hassle Steam has ever given me from its end is waiting for updates to finish, logging in and the occasional server bork. I dont know where you get background program from, as it only really does anything when youre playing games through it.

    That is all minor things people have just accepted but you paid a lot of money for the game, if I had a car that wouldn't start all time, I would be pissed. Any annoys that means that my friend laughs at me for buying legal has some big problems.

    Yes but in most cases the car would be fixed under a warranty for free. Also I dont think its a good example as the times scale of it is off by a few weeks. In every case ive had so far ive had all my Steam games working within one hour of completion of download.

    I despise DRM. Now, I KINDA can accept simple disk-check copy protection.

    Which was scrapped because it was easy to bypass, and DRM isnt a big improvement.

    Steam is just as easily bypassed a simple google and it's done.

    I clearly did not state that Steam was any better either.

    Plus it's pretty hard to even install updates for such games.

    Its done automatically. No user input required.

    This annoys the hell out of me, it's a hassle not to get the update. And if you get it and find you don't like it there are no getting rid of it.

    I think this calls for the saying "Don't shoot the messenger." It's the developer that approves and sends the updates, and if you have auto-update on Steam merely applies them without your consent.

    Not to say I dont know what its like to have a game I like ruined by a patch.

    sheic99:
    Is it weird that I assumed the hat would be in Team Fortress 2?

    I think everyone assumed the hat would be TF2 ;)

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