Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account

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Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account

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A judge has awarded Sony access to the ins and outs of George Hotz's PayPal records.

Things might not be going as PS3 hacker George Hotz might have hoped in Sony's lawsuit against him for posting the console's root key online. In addition to Sony being awarded a restraining order against Hotz, along with the details of his website's visitors, a judge has now given Sony permission to sort through Hotz's PayPal records.

The justification is so that Sony can determine who and where any donations may have come from that allegedly supported Hotz's work. The judge awarded Sony the ability to subpoena PayPal records between the dates of January 1, 2009, and February 1, 2011.

One of the issues in the case is whether or not it should be held in California as opposed to Hotz's home state of New Jersey. Sony plans to prove that California residents aided Hotz through PayPal donations so that the case can proceed on the west coast.

Hotz denies that he accepted any donations or made any profit from his PS3 hacking activities. Whether he did or not isn't the main issue, as Sony accuses Hotz of breaching the Digital Millenium Copyright Act which says that copyright protection "circumvention devices" cannot be distributed. Hotz has received plenty of donations towards his legal fees, so Sony could have a fight on its hands no matter the location.

Source: Wired

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The DMCA seems to be a "get someone into jail for free" card for corporations...

Sony continues to worry me with their less than palatable legal practices in this case. I see no reason to be accessing his paypal account. What were they unable to scrounge up enough cali residents when they wanted the list of everyone who's ever been to his site to make their case?

The longer this goes on the more Sony appears to be grasping at straws and making a bigger ass out of themselves the longer they do it.

Interesting that he says he hasn't received any donations from his hacking activities, but he got a TON of donations to oppose SONY... For his hacking activities.

Love the picture too, he looks like a bit of a poser.

KeyMaster45:
Sony continues to worry me with their less than palatable legal practices in this case. I see no reason to be accessing his paypal account. What were they unable to scrounge up enough cali residents when they wanted the list of everyone who's ever been to his site to make their case?

The longer this goes on the more Sony appears to be grasping at straws and making a bigger ass out of themselves the longer they do it.

Sony isn't allowed to say "SEE! A lot of people in California looked at a website! We hold this to California Jurisdiction!!!" They CAN say "A large number of California residents have contributed/aided in the activities in which we are opposing, and so we ask jurisdiction to be held here"

I think the site was mostly to make sure he had a large enough following

Celtic_Kerr:
Interesting that he says he hasn't received any donations from his hacking activities, but he got a TON of donations to oppose SONY... For his hacking activities.

Love the picture too, he looks like a bit of a poser.

He's like "Sony, why you gotta be like that?"

I'm not buying any more of sony's stuff though, you can't advertise linux as a feature then remove it because someone used it as a backdoor. Let's be honest, in the grand scheme of things very few people pirate games they would have bought for the ps3.

What does it matter where the case is held?
Sony is a japanese corporation so why not take it to japan while we're at it?
Seems like a desperate attemtp to keep it at that state because of some laws that work in sonys favor there or some bullshit like that.

Also more personal data put at the fingertips of sony. Nice.

Isn't that more an issue for the police or even his bank to sort through and show only relevant findings than lawyers from sony snooping around a guys online transactions which may have nothing to do with the case but can be horribly abused.

I know I could get some hate for saying this... but I kinda support Sony...

Playstation 3 was always more open than any other console, but it was hackers that forced "OtherOS" feature to be removed, It was hackers that fucked up MW, MW2 mp experience for a lot of PS3 owners.

I know I know... It's a few guys VS Corporation, but these guys are ruining peoples experience for the device they paid. 99% of the people who bought PS3 don't care if it's not as open platform as PC.

edit: yes this is my first post and no I'm not from Sony ;D

The amount of shit that Sony is getting away with in this case is genuinely terrifying, both because they're trying for this insanity and that they've got a judge that is happy to assist.

I don't even care who "wins" in this case because nobody can (as I've stated a billion+1 times). I'm just waiting for all this to come to a close so we can move on.

Femaref:
The DMCA seems to be a "get someone into jail for free" card for corporations...

Indeed. Shit like this wouldn't fly in Europe, trust me on this.

Sony is ever so curious!

It would appear Mr.Hotz has been hacked. By lawyers.
Anyway this looks like enough to scare off any more hackers hoping to bring down the man, dude!

Honestly, Sony's just gone completely out of control in this case. There was no reason to subpoena records from paypal. Has Sony said why exactly they're hoping for jurisdiction in California?

Baneat:
I'm not buying any more of sony's stuff though.

I second that notion, I'm not buying anything made by Sony ever again. Not if this is how they're going to use the profits.

Fayathon:
The amount of shit that Sony is getting away with in this case is genuinely terrifying, both because they're trying for this insanity and that they've got a judge that is happy to assist.

because they have a 3rd party, neutral faction that is allowing them to get the information they wish to build their case? You're making it sound like they have the judge in their pocket.

Well I guess they gotta have concrete evidence if he made any money from his hacking. I believe the guy when he says he didn't though, usually stuff like that doesn't happen and if it is, it wouldn't have been easy to prove because the people selling that stuff would want people to know they were selling the stuff in the first place.

It's a hard call for me though. I think Sony's in the right on this one where releasing that code was a bad move and is going to help pirates jailbreak their console more than anything. But the dude's not gonna have millions of dollars for Sony to sue. I hope they don't take the low ground and ruin the dude's life forever over it.

The way that I see it is that he can do what the hell he likes as long as he sticks to hacking his hardware (which seems to be the crux of the argument). As soon as he starts teaching people how to pirate, boosting or cheating in games though, he goes on to the shit list and I hope that the lawyers drag him through the coals - that is of course if he starts doing that crap.

"Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account"

Misleading title is misleading.

Awexsome:
I think Sony's in the right on this one where releasing that code was a bad move and is going to help pirates jailbreak their console more than anything.

I think that you are right. They'll try to focus on the distribution of the code and what he hoped to gain from it etc.

Awexsome:
Well I guess they gotta have concrete evidence if he made any money from his hacking. I believe the guy when he says he didn't though, usually stuff like that doesn't happen and if it is, it wouldn't have been hard to prove because the people selling that stuff would want people to know they were selling the stuff in the first place.

He didn't put out a call for donations until after getting sued. Would be hard to imply that he was soliciting money for the keys. Especially since he was, y'know, posting them for free.

It's a hard call for me though. I think Sony's in the right on this one where releasing that code was a bad move and is going to help pirates jailbreak their console more than anything. But the dude's not gonna have millions of dollars for Sony to sue. I hope they don't take the low ground and ruin the dude's life forever over it.

[Crappy analogy]
A kitchen knife be used to cut vegetables, or to Lorena Bobbitt some poor sap. Regulate/ban/license the distribution of knives?
[/CA]

And if he decides to move, he's welcome in Canada. Circumvention devices are still legal here. (For now.)

edit: apparently bbcode for quotes is case sensitive here.

Well this is just wrong. Software is a little more tricky but hardware is yours, you buy it and you can whack it with a hammer if you want!

Batfred:

Awexsome:
I think Sony's in the right on this one where releasing that code was a bad move and is going to help pirates jailbreak their console more than anything.

I think that you are right. They'll try to focus on the distribution of the code and what he hoped to gain from it etc.

The features he and many other users lost with FW3.21?

That, or "lulz"

This guy just lost the case then. I mean now sony is going to treat it like any money he received was for the hacking of the console. Which means any money he gotten since the PS3 came out is likely to be called in as payment for the service.
Sony beaten this guy right off the bat.

Celtic_Kerr:

Fayathon:
The amount of shit that Sony is getting away with in this case is genuinely terrifying, both because they're trying for this insanity and that they've got a judge that is happy to assist.

because they have a 3rd party, neutral faction that is allowing them to get the information they wish to build their case? You're making it sound like they have the judge in their pocket.

Granting the IP addresses and PayPal records of people that (may) have completely legitimate reasons for supporting this guy doesn't seem very neutral to me. I know that Sony wants to build a case, but their methodology is questionable at best, and I don't think anyone other than a big corporation could get away with these kinds of shenanigans.

I'm taking my tinfoil hat off now, but still, I'd like to see Sony come up with something that isn't so broad in terms of gathering it's evidence against this guy.

Batfred:

Awexsome:
I think Sony's in the right on this one where releasing that code was a bad move and is going to help pirates jailbreak their console more than anything.

I think that you are right. They'll try to focus on the distribution of the code and what he hoped to gain from it etc.

Yeah but the guy's deontological, he did it on principle, regardless of the consequence. Perfectly valid standpoint, if it eliminated piracy by disallowing a certain ethnic minority to buy or play any games, even if it increased sales and profits, it's still wrong.

SomethingAmazing:
"Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account"

Misleading title is misleading.

Titles are meant to draw people in, it's part of making a good article. Admit it, it drew you in. Sadly some people never read past the title...

LeonLethality:

SomethingAmazing:
"Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account"

Misleading title is misleading.

Titles are meant to draw people in, it's part of making a good article. Admit it, it drew you in. Sadly some people never read past the title...

I wouldn't be posting if it didn't draw me in. But I think it is only fair to ask that the title accurately represent the article BEFORE you read it, not after.

Can we get a better picture of this guy? All I can think of when I see that picture is "I'M A DOUCHE! DDDDOOOOOUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHHHEEEEEEE!!"

Sony is going to have quiet the little battle on their hands but the outcome will likely change the face of gaming so it's a a fight both sides must fight. I don't see how looking at the paypal account does anything though. It's not like he sold the damn key he posted it as an act of defiance against Sony.

SomethingAmazing:

LeonLethality:

SomethingAmazing:
"Sony Gains Access to PS3 Hacker's PayPal Account"

Misleading title is misleading.

Titles are meant to draw people in, it's part of making a good article. Admit it, it drew you in. Sadly some people never read past the title...

I wouldn't be posting if it didn't draw me in. But I think it is only fair to ask that the title accurately represent the article BEFORE you read it, not after.

It vaguely represents it and that's all that really matters with the righter, once they have hooked your attention then they can get the facts out.

Ahhh... Another sign of the times.

The four horsemen in game form... Captcha's on the Escapist... Spambots attempting to add me on MSN... And Sony getting access to someone's paypal records for rooting too far into a PS3.

Anywho, on topic now:

I honestly stand with Sony on this one. If they can prove he was making money off people via donations and whatnot for the hacking of the product they released (that they keep ripping stuff out of because people keep digging too deep into it and screwing things up for the rest of us), then I say Sony has every right to hammer this guy with the law for digging too deep. Besides, if he's getting support for his defense against Sony, then I'm pretty sure in the end he'll be able to pay for whatever he's charged with should he be proven guilty. How? More donations.

Twilight_guy:
Can we get a better picture of this guy? All I can think of when I see that picture is "I'M A DOUCHE! DDDDOOOOOUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHHHEEEEEEE!!"

I think of one of two image macros: "Haters gonna hate" or "Come at me bro"

However, the haters are hating, and they have come at him.

As an aside, I'm sure you're not too pleased with Stephanie Meyer for sullying the connotations of your username.

People seem to be split between
1. "This is crazy, why are sony looking for so much information"
and 2. "Sony is just following the legal requirements and geoholt shouldnt have done what he did"

What I dont get is why is it so wrong to modify your playstation? And why are sony allowed to remove options and change things from a product after they've sold it?
If I brought a dvd player because it was multi-region and later they stopped it being able to play multi-region it wouldnt be acceptable.
What if it turned out there was a backdoor to hack the playstation through its ability to play blue-ray DVDs. Then they chose to take away the option for people to play blue-ray films on it. Would that be ok as well?

Also as has already been raised, why california?

This is a violation of some many things. Come on, Paypal accounts, Sony?

Sony is grasping at straws here. Paypal will look at the court order and raise their eyebrow, then turn to the Defendant and say "Do you want access to your account records to be given to Sony?" He'll say "No" and PayPal will just turn around and smile, "Let's just take this to the US Supreme Court."

There is no way in hell that PayPal will authorize this without trying as hard as hell to reverse this. It's such PR, people will be thinking "Well, I shouldn't use PayPal, because then the government will just be able to read what transactions I do online."

Sony Legal team, I award you the Legal Failure of the Month award.

Does anyone else want to smack this guy based on that picture? He looks like a total idiot wanna-be gangster, yo!

Twilight_guy:
Can we get a better picture of this guy? All I can think of when I see that picture is "I'M A DOUCHE! DDDDOOOOOUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHHHEEEEEEE!!"

Why, I see I am not alone.

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