GeoHot Claims Sony Is Misleading the Courts in PS3 Legal Battle

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GeoHot Claims Sony Is Misleading the Courts in PS3 Legal Battle

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The fine print in the PS3 software developer kit has become an important point in the ongoing battle between Sony and jailbreaker GeoHot.

Sony's lawsuit against George "GeoHot" Hotz, has hit another jurisdictional snag as Hotz's legal team have accused the corporation of deliberately misleading the court in order to get the case tried in California. According to Hotz's lawyers, Sony isn't being entirely candid with the court, and is withholding important information.

This complaint seems to hinge on the exact wording of the PS3 Software Developer Kit. According to Sony, if it found the SDK on Hotz's computer, that would prove the connection between Hotz and California - where SCE America is based - and would thus settle any dispute over jurisdiction. Sony petitioned the court for permission to search Hotz's computers for evidence of the SDK.

Hotz's lawyers said that there was no validity to this argument however, as the SDK was actually the property of SCE Japan, and that Sony had concealed that fact in order to gain access to Hotz's computers, a request that the court would have turned down had it had all the relevant information. The lawyers said that Sony was hoping that during its search for the SDK - which it knew was actually useless in determining jurisdiction - that it might find something else linking Hotz to California.

Sony responded to the accusation by saying that SCEA was the sole distributor of the SDK in the US, as well as the developer support contact. It seems that the company is being cagey about letting Hotz's lawyers actually look at the terms and conditions of the SDK however, without them first signing a non-disclosure agreement. Even then, the company is only willing to show the SDK at its offices.

This is going to be a bitter and hard fought case. These arguments aren't even part of the original complaint. Instead, they're to determine in which state the case should be heard. It will be some time before the case even really gets underway, and months - or maybe even years - before it's resolved.

Source: Ars Technica

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personally, I think They're going to bleed down his expenses till he cant fight back regardless. All this extra time Hotz's lawyers have to cut through bureaucracy is costing him money and unlike with sony... this is eventually going to run out.

aren't there laws against doing that though?

googleback:
personally, I think They're going to bleed down his expenses till he cant fight back regardless. All this extra time Hotz's lawyers have to cut through bureaucracy is costing him money and unlike with sony... this is eventually going to run out.

aren't there laws against doing that though?

Nope.

That's legal battles. It's not to win, it is to make the other broke through forcing him to pay for lawyers.

I personally think he's in the right generally...but I also think he's probably breached the SDK agreement and is looking to wiggle out of it by knowing that no one ever roots for the corporation.

I've noticed that this kind of person in the software world tends to be very utilitarianistic, he's done whatever he had to to achieve his admittedly laudable end. Yes, he was perfectly within the law to change his hardware's functionality but if we're honest he probably did illegal things in order to achieve his goal.

Seriously, people...

...I'm running out of popcorn for this...

Sony is misleading the courts?

Well, I didn't see that through all of Geohot's deceit. What with the whole "encouraging people to ban others from PSN" fiasco and "rapping about how all big corporations are evil" while taking bribes from Microsoft, etc.

Geohot is a disgusting example of a hacker/pirate that I hope loses. I frankly don't care what dangerous legal precedent this sets. I refuse to support such a person.

Why is he even trying? We all know that Sony is corrupt and will do anything to destroy that boys life. That's already pretty much in evidence.

Because there's even the tiny chance that they might lose a legal battle, it all comes down to bankrupting the opposition. Such is the world run by corporations.
I back anyone who decides to crack the ps3 for the sake of pissing off Sony (not to pirate- just to piss them off)

Nah, Geohotz has widespread support. And the lawyers involved could become famous because this is a pretty ground breaking case when you think about the scope of it. I think he is probably right, that since Sony's actual base of operations is out of Japan and the California office probably still answers to the main office there (till at least there is only a nuclear puddle left in it's place), then they may not have any rights to his computer. We could go all day arguing about whether Hotz is right or wrong, but that would be useless. Only thing to do is watch and see. But, I don't think he will be out of money anytime soon.

Just speculating, but I think Sony is out for Hotz's computers so they can copy his PS3 jialbreak SDK then implement a patch to negate it completely. It does make sense in that context.

Oh and lawyers misleading in courtrooms? Deceptions have been at the core of legal practice for centuries.

Well, whatever method that Sony uses, I just hope that they win this one. If they lose, then piracy will skyrocket. That's not good :(

... Wow!

Iv said this before and Im saying it again:"Happy to be danish!"

AnythingOutstanding:

googleback:
personally, I think They're going to bleed down his expenses till he cant fight back regardless. All this extra time Hotz's lawyers have to cut through bureaucracy is costing him money and unlike with sony... this is eventually going to run out.

aren't there laws against doing that though?

Nope.

That's legal battles. It's not to win, it is to make the other broke through forcing him to pay for lawyers.

Hotz can still get money from donations if he can prove they are simply donations. Nothing's stopping him, but SONY wants to fight in Cali, Hotz wants to fight in New York... If they can't settle that, Hotz should have thought ahead of this.

Pendragon9:
Sony is misleading the courts?

Well, I didn't see that through all of Geohot's deceit. What with the whole "encouraging people to ban others from PSN" fiasco and "rapping about how all big corporations are evil" while taking bribes from Microsoft, etc.

Geohot is a disgusting example of a hacker/pirate that I hope loses. I frankly don't care what dangerous legal precedent this sets. I refuse to support such a person.

Pretty much. I seem to remember him tweeting companies asking for a job, and the next second he's calling all companies evil. Even if he's broken, he's gotten his name out there. People will donate to get him on his feet, and then he'll live. Hell, they've donated to him once before.

gigastar:
Just speculating, but I think Sony is out for Hotz's computers so they can copy his PS3 jialbreak SDK then implement a patch to negate it completely. It does make sense in that context.

Oh and lawyers misleading in courtrooms? Deceptions have been at the core of legal practice for centuries.

The jailbreak codes were posted all over the internet, they wouldn't need to steal his computer to grab this, they could simply counter it on their end. But then Hotz would just counter, and back, and forth, and back....

SONYwants this done for good

Celtic_Kerr:

gigastar:
Just speculating, but I think Sony is out for Hotz's computers so they can copy his PS3 jialbreak SDK then implement a patch to negate it completely. It does make sense in that context.

Oh and lawyers misleading in courtrooms? Deceptions have been at the core of legal practice for centuries.

The jailbreak codes were posted all over the internet, they wouldn't need to steal his computer to grab this, they could simply counter it on their end. But then Hotz would just counter, and back, and forth, and back....

SONY wants this done for good

Yes thats why they should get thier hands on what hes using to write the jailbreak patches. Sony cant be seen to have downloaded a copy of jailbreak after they got the access records to his site. Best way around this is to stop distribution then seize and duplicate the source.

Im not saying its perfect but while Hotz is banned from computer work it would give Sony a considerable lead against further jailbreaks.

Logan Westbrook:
Sony petitioned the caught for permission to search Hotz's computers for evidence of the SDK.

That makes no sense. I assume you meant to say court there, but maybe I'm just having a brain fart and reading it wrong.

Anyway, more typical bullying and cheating from Sony. Of course they won't be fair about the terms and whatnots of the SDK. They're trying really hard to make things tough for GeoHot by having the case in California instead of where he lives. It's really all quite bullshit if you ask me. Sony is the big corporation with lots of money. They can send people to New Jersey to a nice hotel and whatnot easily. Plus, they are suing him. They should be the ones going out to New Jersey, but they're just trying to screw him even harder by trying to make him go all the way out to California.

Honestly, I find it harder and harder to support Sony these days. Almost everything they do anymore makes me want to give them less and less money for PS3 games and send it to my Wii, 360, DS, and PC instead. I'm already down to just getting exclusives for my PS3 as it is because of all their other things they do that annoy me (lots of little things that add up to a giant "what the hell are you doing Sony?!"). I might have to go to buying those exclusive titles used instead of new so they don't get any money from me if they want to keep this up. It's like they want to be the biggest villains in this industry since EA.

googleback:
personally, I think They're going to bleed down his expenses till he cant fight back regardless. All this extra time Hotz's lawyers have to cut through bureaucracy is costing him money and unlike with sony... this is eventually going to run out.

aren't there laws against doing that though?

Fuck that, he already has tons of donations for his legal fees, and if he starts to run dry I plan to contribute myself, because this is complete bullshit.

They can't stall the courts decision forever, donations are going to lead Geohotz to the win!

Well, Im rooting for Sony largely because I doubt they will lose. I rarely ever get on the side that wins, so Im doing this so I can say, "Yup, I called it!"

I find it despicable that there are people on this forum that are rooting for the big faceless corporation involved in this. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't be scared by the legal precedent set by Sony's victory in this case would do to the average consumer?
'Don't do things we don't like or we'll go Big Brother on your ass'
Personally I'd love to see one of these corporations that act like they control the world get taken down a notch...or twenty.

Okay, what the fuck is it with their fetish for california?
Seriously.

gigastar:

Celtic_Kerr:

gigastar:
Just speculating, but I think Sony is out for Hotz's computers so they can copy his PS3 jialbreak SDK then implement a patch to negate it completely. It does make sense in that context.

Oh and lawyers misleading in courtrooms? Deceptions have been at the core of legal practice for centuries.

The jailbreak codes were posted all over the internet, they wouldn't need to steal his computer to grab this, they could simply counter it on their end. But then Hotz would just counter, and back, and forth, and back....

SONY wants this done for good

Yes thats why they should get thier hands on what hes using to write the jailbreak patches. Sony cant be seen to have downloaded a copy of jailbreak after they got the access records to his site. Best way around this is to stop distribution then seize and duplicate the source.

Im not saying its perfect but while Hotz is banned from computer work it would give Sony a considerable lead against further jailbreaks.

No, because SONY would be DESTORYED if they found out that SONY looked at the computer files for any other reason. The risk simply isn't worth the money they're throwing into this, or the trouble they are going through. Plus, if the court rules in favor of Hotz, then what? They lose, and they can't protect themselves from this jail breaking anyways.

9_6:
Okay, what the fuck is it with their fetish for california?
Seriously.

Sony's office in the US is in California, Hotz lives in NY. SONY wants to use the Californian laws against Hotz, not the New York laws.

9_6:
Okay, what the fuck is it with their fetish for california?
Seriously.

It's another tactic meant to increase the financial burden for GeoHotz by forcing him to fly out to California every time they have a court date. There's also probably some kind of California law that's biased towards Sony's side that doesn't exist in New York.

Frankly after reading that article I've started google searching for the SDK's Terms and Conditions just so I can read it myself. Though I don't see why it matters since if I read the article right GeoHotz doesn't even have a copy on his computer thus sorta making the whole thing a null point in the legal case.

Sod Sony. They're acting like petulant children. I, for one, am glad I buy Microsoft. I'm unlikely to buy Sony...

googleback:
personally, I think They're going to bleed down his expenses till he cant fight back regardless. All this extra time Hotz's lawyers have to cut through bureaucracy is costing him money and unlike with sony... this is eventually going to run out.

aren't there laws against doing that though?

Legally, there's no such thing as debtor's prison, either. Doesn't mean you can't effectively be placed there....

Anyway, he's running on donations, so I'm pretty sure he's one instance who's safe from being bled.

At least, I hope. Sony has a bad case and don't want this going all the way. Someone has to. Not saying I like Hotz, or even care about him personally as such, just their bullying hurts more than "pirates."

Logan Westbrook:
Sony petitioned the caught for permission to search Hotz's computers for evidence of the SDK.

I think you mean the court? I read over it a couple of times and thought "Huh...".

OT: This legal battle most likely won't end anytime soon. I'm kind of rooting for GeoHot in this. TO my knowledge, he hasn't pirated games, so I'm having trouble seeing what he's done that is so wrong.

Hope they nail Geohot for all they can. He lost all credibility when he tried to take Sony hostage by publishing the root keys for the PS3.

Edit to clarify: he crossed the line from 'white hat' to 'black hat' by that act, and deserves to be taught that there is a line one does not cross. By publishing the material he opened the way for scriptkiddies, cheaters, and other scum who never would have been able to crack the PS3 otherwise.

Court not caught, c'mon guys.

p.s. Go GeoHot =)

Okay, Sony only want to show the SDK at their offices...so why can't Geohot say when and where Sony can look at his computer? And how do they know if he does or does not have an SDK in the first place? I thought only the game development studios had them? Is Sony saying that only someone with the SDK could have hacked the PS3? I'm not a hacker, but surely, the SDK isn't the one tool for PS3 hacking.

Pendragon9:
Geohot is a disgusting example of a hacker/pirate that I hope loses. I frankly don't care what dangerous legal precedent this sets. I refuse to support such a person.

So rather than innocent until proven guilty and justice, you'd rather have the courts set a legal precedent that we as consumers own neither the console we play the games on or the games themselves, simply because you don't like George Hotz?

I'm really glad you're in the minority on this one.

AnythingOutstanding:
Well, whatever method that Sony uses, I just hope that they win this one. If they lose, then piracy will skyrocket. That's not good :(

For one, I doubt that in the grand scheme of things, the Geohot hack as made a huge uptick in piracy, if we look on a large scale. However, if you have some evidence, by all means...

Second, if Sony wins this case, look forward to more DRM, more instrusive DRM and less rights for consumers. And that still won't stop piracy. Yeah, that's a real victory.

It's worth throwing your life away so you can use free software, right? I hope Sony wins, I'm not a fan of big corporations, but the alternative for this court battle is voting for a loser who actually needs donations just to protect himself, that doesn't make him a loser though. From what I've gathered, he's doing all this to include OtherOS? Really? You can't just dual boot on your computer? OtherOS wasn't even anything special on the PS3, not even half of the features worked, it wasn't meant to be used on an entertainment console.

Zom-B:

Pendragon9:
Geohot is a disgusting example of a hacker/pirate that I hope loses. I frankly don't care what dangerous legal precedent this sets. I refuse to support such a person.

So rather than innocent until proven guilty and justice, you'd rather have the courts set a legal precedent that we as consumers own neither the console we play the games on or the games themselves, simply because you don't like George Hotz?

I'm really glad you're in the minority on this one.

Welcome to the escapist. Pirates are worse then murders and should be tortured to death and the almight company is always right.

reddfawks:
Seriously, people...

...I'm running out of popcorn for this...

its ok according to the app gopee the next 6 month's are gonna go back and forth blaming each other about stuff that has nothing to do with the case so i think you can take a popcorn run while that happens

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