GeoHot and Sony Settle PS3 Jailbreak Case

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I think I may be the only one thinking that he'll never be able to insure any of his electrical goods after this ordeal.

I was kind of hoping that this would end in hackers and pirates alike charging at men in suits and judges with their wigs. It's a shame really, that would be the best ending possible for this sort of thing.

esperandote:
This is a great loss for all but at least not as big as it could have been of one of the parts.

Is this jailbreak code available anywhere else?

I wonder if anyone else will continue Hotz's work (and if Hotz will secretly help him).

If it's the same one that Kevin Butler's Twitter put up, you could probably find it somewhere.

Dastardly:
So you'll be retiring that picture, right?

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Dastardly:
In my mind, this was the outcome Sony was always hoping to reach. Out-of-court settlements usually go much better in relatively untested legal ground like this, and this decreases the chances of Sony somehow losing the case on a technicality.

Agreed, Sony would have never gotten much money from GeoHot and this way they get everything they wanted from the case without the liability of a trial. It's probably the best outcome GeoHot could hope for as well, getting this thrown out in the short term would have simply extended his problems and in the end I don't think he could have won.

JDKJ:

That's not where the fraud occurs. The fraud occurs in stating that you will accept my money and use it to accomplish Object X and then deliberately failing to accomplish Object X. Plain and simple. The promise to donate a surplus to the EFF was the surplus left over after Object X was accomplished. But Objective X was never accomplished. Therefore, there's no surplus.

So because he lost...it is fraud? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. He accepted donations to pay for his legal team, which he did. He is going to use the left over money to donate to charity, like he said he would. You can try to sue him for fraud if you want, but that is the most nit-pickingly assholish fraud claim that I've ever seen in my life.

What a Hack!

So... will there still be investigations into how much bullshit EULA's are? Or is that just going to be ignored now?

God dammit. I really wanted them to be looked at due to this case, and changed to be more consumer friendly. Just... god dammit.

Aw that's so... Anticlimactic

Radeonx:

JDKJ:

danpascooch:

You do realize he has paid his lawyers up till now right? And he said he would donate whatever is left over when he accepted the donations.

As long as the money is used to pay his lawyers up till now, and the rest is donated like he claimed up front, there is no fraud. And he sure as hell shouldn't pay it ALL back, it's not like the lawyers worked for free up till now.

Honestly, this seems like somewhat of a victory for GeoHotz, think about it, the root key got out, and he didn't go to jail or owe Sony millions of dollars, sounds like a victory to me at least.

Wrong. If tell you I want you money because I'm going to use it to wage a legal battle that will benefit you also by setting a legal precedent when I prevail before the Court and then I bail out on my promised legal battle long before the point of ever prevailing, then, my friend, that is most certainly fraud and obtaining property under false pretenses.

Can you please to me how saying that you are going to donate whatever excess money you have to charity and then doing so is fraud?

Ah i think i see what he's driving at, i suppose it kinda is fraud since the promised legal battle that everyone donated for never happened. The fact that he's donating to charity doesn't really change anything...

Not that i'm in the habit of taking sides of course

Aeshi:
A tie.

Everybody loses this one.

I believe the word in compromise.

OT: Finally. Now Anon can go back to its own business, the prick stops getting media attention, and Sony stops embarrassing itself. Everyone's happy.

Dastardly:

John Funk:
GeoHot and Sony Settle PS3 Jailbreak Case

So you'll be retiring that picture, right?

In my mind, this was the outcome Sony was always hoping to reach. Out-of-court settlements usually go much better in relatively untested legal ground like this, and this decreases the chances of Sony somehow losing the case on a technicality.

In the end, a lot of folks are going to hold this as another example of "big company scaring little person into settling," but I really have to wonder if there's any other way for things like this to end. Sometimes the "underdog" is actually wrong, and a company shouldn't have to use kid gloves to give someone a "fair chance" when they're in the right.

I'm glad it's done, though. Sony got what it wanted, and no one is a gajillion dollars in the hole. Sony hasn't outlawed hacking of the PS3, they've just made it illegal to publicly post the root key. The sky isn't falling.

I don't know about that. It's an awfully amusing picture.

Veloxe:
WHAT! *throws his popcorn to the ground*

Worst ending ever! I want my money back.

LOL!
Yeah!

While I am always in favour of seeing Sony get shafted, it´s hard to blame the guy.
After all, it wouldn´t be any of us who went to jail if a court decision came out in favor Sony

bushwhacker2k:

John Funk:
"Sony is glad to put this litigation behind us," said Sony's General Counsel Riley Russell. "Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers.

Not to hate on "the man" or anything, but I'm pretty sure that sentence would be more accurate with the words "and our consumers".

I'm pretty sure nobody saw him beating Sony in court anyways, but I'm a little sad nothing ever came of

Arachon:
Yay! This means that Sony can continue to treat hardware purchased by their customers as company property! A great day for us all.

this statement ^ : \

JDKJ:
Smart move, Georgie Boy. 'Cause you were most certainly on your way to getting about 12 inches of Sony penis up your rectum.

And if you don't immediately return the money that was donated to your Legal Defense Fund, I just might class-action your ass for fraud, false pretenses, theft, and any other claims I might be able to cook up against you.

Hero, my ass. You's a punky-ass bitch. You had a choice: git down or lay down, And your sorry ass just laid down.

Not to spark an argument, but please settle down, you're not going to prove anything to anyone here by raging at what was obviously going to happen in the first place (which is, not getting a refund from someone you donated to).

Honestly if anyone donated money to him in the first place then I'd be surprised anyone would expect to get it back.

What was obvious was that Hotz said he was going to fight Sony all the way and he was going to win. When his begging-ass was soliciting money for his Legal Defense Fund, he never said a word about the possibility that he was ever going to settle with Sony. He said he was going to prevail against Sony and, in so doing, set a legal precedent from which his donators would also benefit. He hasn't made good on that promise. Ergo, he needs to hurry up and return the donations.

Good to actually see two sides settling their differences out of court.

I'm sure Sony made him an offer he couldn't refuse... And not saying that in a bad way.

Cause this would drag on for very long with no doubt lots of damage to GeoHot's bank account and damage to Sony's reputation in the eyes of the hacker community.

Radeonx:

JDKJ:

That's not where the fraud occurs. The fraud occurs in stating that you will accept my money and use it to accomplish Object X and then deliberately failing to accomplish Object X. Plain and simple. The promise to donate a surplus to the EFF was the surplus left over after Object X was accomplished. But Objective X was never accomplished. Therefore, there's no surplus.

So because he lost...it is fraud? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. He accepted donations to pay for his legal team, which he did. He is going to use the left over money to donate to charity, like he said he would. You can try to sue him for fraud if you want, but that is the most nit-pickingly assholish fraud claim that I've ever seen in my life.

No. That's not fraud. Fraud occurs when a false statement or promise is made in order to obtain a benefit from another.

This is not really unexpected. I wish GeoHotz had pushed on myself. But, you can't blame him for not having the follow through on such a massive undertaking. This doesn't hurt piracy. It doesn't hurt Sony, I would call it a draw.

JDKJ:

Dastardly:

JDKJ:
snip

snip

Oh, yes you did purchase a guaranteed win. That's the guarantee that Hotz made when he solicited the money.

The big bad Wall Street Attorney is here to tell you to shut the fuck up, you don't know!!!

For real though, if he had gone asking for donations by saying he doesn't think he will win, or if he is given an opportunity to settle out, he would, no one would have donated. If Sony hadn't offered to settle, we wouldn't be talking about this at all. There was the potential to do what he suggested, but I don't think I should have to tell you that no victory such as that is guaranteed. I know you are immune to contractual law and all that, and had you been involved it would have been over by now, but use your intelligence here.

Everybody loses. Unfortunately not the way i wanted everyone to lose. I wanted sony to lose the lawsuit and treat us like we are human beings & we own the chunk of hardware/software we had. I wanted the lesson that tossing info that can hurt the industry more than our corporations do to be thrown to wolves that will take it and use it to the most malicious of intent they can. Sony is not crunching down on players because they hate consumer freedom, the lesson to jail breakers that they should not blindly throw pass words out into the open is unlearned, companies do not know to secure removed features and security under different locks, and Anon did no permanent damage to sony. Yeah geo will probably donate the money to charity or give it back, and Anon might cease the shelling of Sony, but we still do not own the console we purchase. Soon as we click accept we have apparently signed the console back over to them for free.

Know what this is? Sony expected to lose in a long and bloody battle of attrition; during which they would be bombarded with Anons, laughed at in court, and turned on by the people that give them money, and sign away the product they bought. It is a sign that the next time this happens we might own what we buy, and that bogus hidden contract(we can return console for store credit yes-sir) doesn't count to legally giving the console and rights to it back to sony.

The Wykydtron:

Ah i think i see what he's driving at, i suppose it kinda is fraud since the promised legal battle that everyone donated for never happened. The fact that he's donating to charity doesn't really change anything...

Not that i'm in the habit of taking sides of course

Hotz said any money that won't go towards the legal battle will go to charity, which it will. So long as he donates it, he will not have committed fraud.

JDKJ:
Oh, yes you did purchase a guaranteed win. That's the guarantee that Hotz made when he solicited the money.

If a person thinks for even a fraction of a second someone can "guarantee" a win in anything competitive, they probably shouldn't be trusted with money.

You bet money on Hotz. He tried. He lost. Guess what? That's how gambling works. All he could promise was to try his best. In the expert legal opinion of his lawyers, they'd tried it, and their best wasn't good enough. It happens.

Does this mean we can stop seeing that bloody picture on the front page every week?

JDKJ:

What was obvious was that Hotz said he was going to fight Sony all the way and he was going to win. When his begging-ass was soliciting money for his Legal Defense Fund, he never said a word about the possibility that he was ever going to settle with Sony. He said he was going to prevail against Sony and, in so doing, set a legal precedent from which his donators would also benefit. He hasn't made good on that promise. Ergo, he needs to hurry up and return the donations.

That is his web page asking for donations.
Please tell me where he is for sure going to win this case, because I've found "if I actually win this.." and other things such as that, but no "You are donating so I can get a guarantee win" or anything similar, like you say he keeps claiming.

Now, I skimmed through it, so correct me if I missed a giant paragraph where he spits out arrogance at how he is going to dominate Sony's legal teams. All I'm seeing is him saying that he needs money to go into court against Sony and that he needed to pay lawyer bills.

RT-Medic-with-shotgun:
Everybody loses. Unfortunately not the way i wanted everyone to lose. I wanted sony to lose the lawsuit and treat us like we are human beings & we own the chunk of hardware we had. Sony is not crunching down on players because they hate consumer freedom, and Anon did no permanent damage to sony. Yeah geo will probably donate the money to charity or give it back, and Anon might cease the shelling of Sony, but we still do not own the console we purchase. Soon as we click accept we have apparently signed the console back over to them for free.

I feel you man. I wanted this case to bring attention to how much bullshit EULA's really are. So that they can finally be revised to give consumers basic rights and protections that are in any other god damn industry.

Radeonx:

JDKJ:

That's not where the fraud occurs. The fraud occurs in stating that you will accept my money and use it to accomplish Object X and then deliberately failing to accomplish Object X. Plain and simple. The promise to donate a surplus to the EFF was the surplus left over after Object X was accomplished. But Objective X was never accomplished. Therefore, there's no surplus.

So because he lost...it is fraud? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. He accepted donations to pay for his legal team, which he did. He is going to use the left over money to donate to charity, like he said he would. You can try to sue him for fraud if you want, but that is the most nit-pickingly assholish fraud claim that I've ever seen in my life.

Haha, think of who you are talking to here. It is a fuckin' derpish thing to say. He thinks he can win any case because of his job. I would love to see him organize a class action lawsuit about this, I daresay, I would spend money to see it.

JDKJ:
What was obvious was that Hotz said he was going to fight Sony all the way and he was going to win. When his begging-ass was soliciting money for his Legal Defense Fund, he never said a word about the possibility that he was ever going to settle with Sony. He said he was going to prevail against Sony and, in so doing, set a legal precedent from which his donators would also benefit. He hasn't made good on that promise. Ergo, he needs to hurry up and return the donations.

Y'know what? The March of Dimes or St. Jude Children's Hospital had better return my money, too. So far, they haven't gotten all these sick kids to stop being sick. Frauds.

Radeonx:

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Well, guess I'll be watching the PlayStation blog and looking at what future updates include.

"Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers."

Ha ha very funny Sony now get back to work.

Protect them from what? Linux? How has Linux ever harmed anybod--    oh.
They must have Installation Anxiety.

Also, I don't think the average consumer minds not being "protected" from homebrew/freeware/pirated software...
You know what, Sony? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Baresark:
This is not really unexpected. I wish GeoHotz had pushed on myself. But, you can't blame him for not having the follow through on such a massive undertaking. This doesn't hurt piracy. It doesn't hurt Sony, I would call it a draw.

JDKJ:

Dastardly:
[quote="JDKJ" post="7.276537.10744157"snip[/quote]

snip

Oh, yes you did purchase a guaranteed win. That's the guarantee that Hotz made when he solicited the money.

The big bad Wall Street Attorney is here to tell you to shut the fuck up, you don't know!!!

For real though, if he had gone asking for donations by saying he doesn't think he will win, or if he is given an opportunity to settle out, he will, no one would have donated. If Sony hadn't offered to settle, we wouldn't be talking about this at all. There was the potential to do what he suggested, but I don't think I should have to tell you that no victory such as that is guaranteed. I know you are immune to contractual law and all that, and had you been involved it would have been over by now, but use your intelligence here.

No, I don't have to speak in my capacity as a big, bad-ass, Wall Street attorney. I'll just let New Jersey law do the all talking for me:

In order to assert a legal fraud claim the moving party must establish the following five elements by clear and convincing evidence: "(1) [a] material misrepresentation of a presently existing or past fact; (2) knowledge or belief by defendant of its falsity; (3) an intention that the other person rely on it; (4) reasonable reliance thereon by the other person; and (5) resulting harm." Jewish Ctr. of Sussex Cty v. Whale, 86 N.J. 619, 624-625 (1991); see also Simpson v. Widger, 311 N.J. Super. 379, 392 (App. Div. 1998).

You can read the relevant case law and then continue to argue that there isn't a colorable claim of fraud against Hotz, but I must forewarn you that you are once again headed towards that big ol' fail bucket in which you apparently enjoy standing.

Dastardly:

JDKJ:
What was obvious was that Hotz said he was going to fight Sony all the way and he was going to win. When his begging-ass was soliciting money for his Legal Defense Fund, he never said a word about the possibility that he was ever going to settle with Sony. He said he was going to prevail against Sony and, in so doing, set a legal precedent from which his donators would also benefit. He hasn't made good on that promise. Ergo, he needs to hurry up and return the donations.

Y'know what? The March of Dimes or St. Jude Children's Hospital had better return my money, too. So far, they haven't gotten all these sick kids to stop being sick. Frauds.

Did they ever make an unequivocal promise to you that they were certainly going to cure birth defects or cancer? If they did, you should sue them for fraud. You'll win. You should also throw in "obtaining property by false pretenses." You'll win on that claim, too.

Apparently The Escapist is either full of selfless heroes or people that can't imagine standing in that guy's shoes.

Now to wait for Kotick V. West + Zampella

Irridium:

The Wykydtron:

Ah i think i see what he's driving at, i suppose it kinda is fraud since the promised legal battle that everyone donated for never happened. The fact that he's donating to charity doesn't really change anything...

Not that i'm in the habit of taking sides of course

Hotz said any money that won't go towards the legal battle will go to charity, which it will. So long as he donates it, he will not have committed fraud.

Then... He's a very (perhaps inadvertently) shrewd man AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

^^ Exactly what i just said to myself while reading this

*ahem*

Is that in writing? Cuz that's just killed any chance of a legal battle over this particular "no legal battle" thing.

Well played Geohotz, i didn't think you had it in you

Radeonx:
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

I thought Sony were suing him for distributing the hacking whatevermajig.

Radeonx:

JDKJ:

snip

snip

I think all the excess money should go to the charity, and not a refund for donaters. However in your copy/paste I saw this bit

"What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted."

Now who would have thought that moron would sell out, eh? So much for all that hot-aired bullshit he spouted about fighting for peoples rights.

The Wykydtron:

Irridium:

The Wykydtron:

Ah i think i see what he's driving at, i suppose it kinda is fraud since the promised legal battle that everyone donated for never happened. The fact that he's donating to charity doesn't really change anything...

Not that i'm in the habit of taking sides of course

Hotz said any money that won't go towards the legal battle will go to charity, which it will. So long as he donates it, he will not have committed fraud.

Then... He's a very (perhaps inadvertently) shrewd man AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

^^ Exactly what i just said to myself while reading this

*ahem*

Is that in writing? Cuz that's just killed any chance of a legal battle over this particular "no legal battle" thing.

Well played Geohotz, i didn't think you had it in you

Radeonx copy/pasted the text from his donation site a couple posts above.

JDKJ:

Baresark:
This is not really unexpected. I wish GeoHotz had pushed on myself. But, you can't blame him for not having the follow through on such a massive undertaking. This doesn't hurt piracy. It doesn't hurt Sony, I would call it a draw.

JDKJ:

Oh, yes you did purchase a guaranteed win. That's the guarantee that Hotz made when he solicited the money.

The big bad Wall Street Attorney is here to tell you to shut the fuck up, you don't know!!!

For real though, if he had gone asking for donations by saying he doesn't think he will win, or if he is given an opportunity to settle out, he will, no one would have donated. If Sony hadn't offered to settle, we wouldn't be talking about this at all. There was the potential to do what he suggested, but I don't think I should have to tell you that no victory such as that is guaranteed. I know you are immune to contractual law and all that, and had you been involved it would have been over by now, but use your intelligence here.

No, I don't have to speak in my capacity as a big, bad-ass, Wall Street attorney. I'll just let New Jersey law do the all talking for me:

In order to assert a legal fraud claim the moving party must establish the following five elements by clear and convincing evidence: "(1) [a] material misrepresentation of a presently existing or past fact; (2) knowledge or belief by defendant of its falsity; (3) an intention that the other person rely on it; (4) reasonable reliance thereon by the other person; and (5) resulting harm." Jewish Ctr. of Sussex Cty v. Whale, 86 N.J. 619, 624-625 (1991); see also Simpson v. Widger, 311 N.J. Super. 379, 392 (App. Div. 1998).

You can read the relevant case law and then continue to argue that there isn't a colorable claim of fraud against Hotz, but I must forewarn you that you are once again headed towards that big ol' fail bucket in which you apparently enjoy standing.

Except for the fact, as it was posted by another forum member (Radeonx), there was no claim of definitive victory, only in your head. You just like to strut on these forums, be contrary to what other people are saying, and then cite legal reasons as to why you're right, and everyone is wrong. But you're proof of a victory doesn't exist, smashing the five elements of clear and convincing evidence (emphasis mine).

A boring end but I guess its a smart move on his part I really didn't see him coming out of this well.

Now to see what annon makes of this.

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