Fable 3 Dev: Used Games Sales are "More Problematic" Than Piracy

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Fable 3 Dev: Used Games Sales are "More Problematic" Than Piracy

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Lionhead senior developer Mike West says that sales of preowned Xbox 360 games are actually a bigger problem than piracy on the PC.

Piracy on the PC is a problem. We all know this. What we didn't know, however, is that it's not as much of a problem as the legitimate trade in legally-owned product known as "pre-owned game sales." That's right, kids, carting the old crap that you're never again going to play down to the store so you can afford to buy the hot new EA Sports release does more damage to the industry than simply downloading it from some skeevy torrent site. Or something like that.

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," West told Eurogamer. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it."

But there will also always be those who insist on pirating games and technologically, he added, there's really nothing that can be done to stop them. Fortunately, West said that the success of Fable III on the Xbox 360 essentially insulates it from PC piracy and that any sales on the platform are basically just "a bonus."

"For us it's probably a no-lose even with piracy as it is," West said. "But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days."

Other developers have in the past equated used game sales with piracy but I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say it's actually worse. I can sort of see where West is coming from; the 360 market is much larger than the PC and game trade-ins are not just legitimate but encouraged by many retailers, so dollar-for-dollar Lionhead and Microsoft may actually "lose more sales" to the pre-owned business than to piracy. But to say that it's "more problematic" than the flat-out-illegal act of piracy is an odd claim, especially since piracy has for years borne the brunt of the blame for the collapsing PC game industry. I'm honestly not sure what West is trying to say. Are pre-owned game sales really all that ruinous, or is piracy perhaps not quite as bad for the business as we're sometimes told?

Permalink

Edit: completely ignore that, got an article i read on another site mixed up. x(

I agree with west, I feel the fact that used games are legitimate causes more problems than piracy.

Er.... okay. Are we purposely throwing wood onto the embers of a fire here? Or creating a new fire all together?

I can see it being an issue when the game is still top price or even half priced and more potential customers buy a second hand copy for even less. then after a year potential customers wont buy a new copy at all. while for PC games if a potential customer wants it they have no real choice but to buy new if the game has multiplayer these days. pirates wouldnt buy it anyway so thats kinda a moot point for potential customers that i was talking about.

Haha, they are sour because they don't know how to make a good game anymore. Boo hoo, all the mean people want to buy what's better for them, waaah waah. This flip flop game between used games and piracy is just getting old.

vrbtny:
Er.... okay. Are we purposely throwing wood onto the embers of a fire here? Or creating a new fire all together?

As I said when I posted about these comments earlier on (inb4 escapist, etc.), this is pretty blatant flamebait.

I can see his point. After all, the argument that a pirate would buy the game legitimately if they had no other option is dubious at best. However, someone who buys a used game probably only spent $5 less on a $60 game, if they couldn't have gotten it used, chances are good they likely would've bought the full priced copy.

However, the realistic solution is likely in just adjusting game prices more routinely, and not obstinately keeping a games price at the same fixed point for months and years on end long after the initial buzz around it has died.

Well...at last someone said it.
Hope we can all go digital soon, it would eliminate at least that issue.

Screw it, for this remark I'm now going to trade my copy of Fable 3 for LA Noire on Friday.

This does seem to encourage illegalness but tbh if it's cheap and you get the whole game, ppl will buy second hand. I do.

Talk to the game distributors about this not the audience.

As i have always said. Make a Game worth buying new or i won't. That measly 5 dollar dlc pack you get isn't worth a brand new game. I don't want armor that makes my character look "Awesome" i want a enthralling story with plot twists and amazing character development.

Jumwa:
I can see his point. After all, the argument that a pirate would buy the game legitimately if they had no other option is dubious at best. However, someone who buys a used game probably only spent $5 less on a $60 game, if they couldn't have gotten it used, chances are good they likely would've bought the full priced copy.

However, the realistic solution is likely in just adjusting game prices more routinely, and not obstinately keeping a games price at the same fixed point for months and years on end long after the initial buzz around it has died.

Well, do consider that it is the retailer that the publishers are selling to, not the public, and used sales will probably have had an enormous affect on the number of games the retailers buy.

Lets assume 10 years ago a high street retailer would order 30,000 copies of the game to cover their national stores. They pay the publisher for 30,000 copies (and then mark it up to high street price) and sell it to you and me.

Now, the retailer knows they are only likely to sell 12,000 in the first month, and the remaining 18,000 will be used sales, months after release. They know they only really need to order 12,000, because the remaining sales will be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand, the initial customers will have traded them in. They pay the publisher for 12,000 copies and sell them to you and me 3-4 times.

Sure I'm pulling numbers out of the air, but there is no reason for retailers to buy more stock than they can reasonably sell, and if they know they have a viable trade-in market, they certainly aren't going to order as many copies from the publishers as they would without the trade-ins.

I'm not a fan of the used games industry. Even used book sales don't see this much of an issue. You can have book stores that sell nothing but new books and still make a profit, whereas a games store can only do so if it sells used games. This is simultaneously part of the industry's problem ($5 retail markup is NOT going to generate revenue for the brick-and-mortar store) and part of the retail stores' lack of vision (why does Hot Topic have all the video game shirts instead of Game Stop? Or all that other merchandising that is marked out the whazoo?).

What is most ridiculous is the sheer racket of it. Is it really worth saving $5 to purchase an opened game whose disc and case are in questionable condition? Especially considering how poorly people treat their games BEFORE trading them in? Is it really worth getting $20 (on a new game) back? Think about it. You buy a new game for $60, GameStop profits $5. You sell the game back and GameStop gives you $20. That puts them at -$15. But then they sell it for $55, and make $40 profit (let's assume they're generous and give you $30 for a brand new game...then they make $30 profit anyway).

It's a scam and a sham. If I go to a used book store I'm only paying $1 or $2 for a book that originally cost $7-9. If you're going to sell me a used product it shouldn't cost a small 10% discount beneath the new product.

Of course, that the games industry relies 100% on the disc itself (or DLC) for their revenue when television and film rely on product placement and merchandising, well, our industry really needs to catch up.

I don't know what they expect anyone to do about it. Ban selling and buying used games? Impossible. Convince people to only ever buy new games and never sell any old games? It's not going to happen. The used game trade is fantastic for the consumers (especially kids) who need to get that little bit of money back to buy more games. Okay, so anyone who has ever traded at GameStop knows that they shell out BULLSHIT money for your games. "What do you have there? A week-old COMPLETE Rock Band set? Eh, I'll give you $20 for it. You hated your brand-new copy of Mortal Kombat and want to sell it the very next day? I can't give you any money, but take this old cheeseburger I didn't get around to eating last week." But imagine if you couldn't recoup ANYTHING for your used game. You'd have to do something drastic like RECYCLING them, God help you.

And let's say you weren't that excited about Brink, but your friends are all playing together and they think you're a faggot for missing out (projecting WAY too hard by now). Do you honestly want to shell out $60 ($50 on Steam, heil to the PC gaming master race) for a game you had no intention of playing in the first place? Fuck no you aren't, but you may certainly run down to Play It Trade It at 4316 N High St, 43214 and snag it for a pittance indirectly from someone who hated it. All I'm saying is that the option is there, and it's better for the consumer.

However, if the game publishers ARE worried about this shit, there's always one action THEY could take. They could stop selling hard copies and go completely downloadable. But Jesus knows they're not going to make any significant effort. They'll just bitch at us.

Used games are worse in every way. A pirate isn't in a store with money in his pocket, looking to spend it on a game.

The typical setup in gamestop is a customer brings a new game to the counter then the pimply faced clerk says "you can get a pre-owned copy for for $5 less!" and if you say you still want a new one the scrotbag says mockingly "don't you like saving money?" The first time one of the register monkeys did that was the last time I set foot in a gamestop.

Their whole business model is leeching money off developers/publishers at the point of sale.

When someone pirates a game, they don't take the money were could have potentially spent on that game and burn it, they don't bury it in the backyard. A downloaded copy doesn't magically make money appear.

But a used sale DOES directly transfer money from the publisher to the retailer.

Here we go again. Used game sales are legal, piracy is illegal. The thing you have to do to stop people from doing both, if it bothers you so much mr mediocre developer, is to start making GOOD GAMES. Then people will perhaps want to buy and then keep playing the damn thing.

It seems to me in terms of copies they don't get paid for used games should be 3rd on the list

#1 Piracy - millions of copies are distributed from a single copy

#2 Rentals - Gamefly, blockbuster ect. all offer unlimited time with a game meaning anyone can rent, beat and never buy to thousands of people over the course of a single copies lifetime

#3 used games. Sure that copy is going to change hands a few times but nowhere near the extent of the other examples listed

Id say his comments are meant to be taken within the context of 'To sales.'

In that respect, on the developers side, Pre-owned would be worse then piracy. With Piracy, there are lot of people who pirate things that would just flat out never buy your game anyway. If they couldnt pirate it, they would skip it entirely. So in Piracy, its often the case that the studios are not losing a sale.

However with Pre-owned sales, people are legally buying it, and dont have concerns that they stole or cheated the company or any such. They support a product, and they paid their dollars for a legally aquired legitimate copy. However, the studio doesnt see a dollar in that sale, so they did in fact lose a sale.

So in that respect, to the profit sheets, Pre-owned sales are probably a bigger issue then Piracy. I get what he's saying, but Im seeing it entirely misunderstood a lot in this topic.

Cartographer:

Well, do consider that it is the retailer that the publishers are selling to, not the public, and used sales will probably have had an enormous affect on the number of games the retailers buy.

Lets assume 10 years ago a high street retailer would order 30,000 copies of the game to cover their national stores. They pay the publisher for 30,000 copies (and then mark it up to high street price) and sell it to you and me.

Now, the retailer knows they are only likely to sell 12,000 in the first month, and the remaining 18,000 will be used sales, months after release. They know they only really need to order 12,000, because the remaining sales will be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand, the initial customers will have traded them in. They pay the publisher for 12,000 copies and sell them to you and me 3-4 times.

Sure I'm pulling numbers out of the air, but there is no reason for retailers to buy more stock than they can reasonably sell, and if they know they have a viable trade-in market, they certainly aren't going to order as many copies from the publishers as they would without the trade-ins.

I don't disagree with your point, however I don't know how that contradicts what I said.

If they would adapt the prices of games more readily (and likely just overall) then I think used game sales would not be so big of an issue in general.

I certainly see where he's coming from. If you buy used, then obviously you're looking to lay some cash down on the game. So most used sales are in fact a loss of sale. Meanwhile, not many people pirating would bother to legitimately pick up the title so it's usually not a lost sale, but on top of that, there's also skewed numbers because some pirates do it as a demo and then do, in fact, buy the game if it's good. So again, it's not a lost sale but a gained sale.

Used games, are a single copy being sold twice... obviously the publisher is only going to see money on the original sale.

But I do think it's partially they're own fault. Combat it by offering lower prices, more content updates and free DLC to legitimate owners. Also, make games people want to own... I have games that I have no intention to sell, and I have other games that I already traded off because they just weren't good, had very little replay value, or whatever else.

Well...yeah. You have to think about it from the perspective of the developers. The people creating the entire medium. A used game gives money to the retailer. Only. That's, say, 50 bucks less in there pocket. Whether that $50 is lost because a person downloaded it illegally, or bought it in a way that is unprofitable is COMPLETELY irrelevant. That's just basic, economic fact. In addition, while people may download a game that they had no intention of buying (Costing the developer no loss of sales), a person buying a used game is extremely likely to buy that same game new. The markdown is just a bonus, not the difference between a sale or not.

It's also worth noting that he is not criticizing players here: He is stating the problem. Companies need to make money, and second hand sales don't give them money. Something has to break somewhere, and the 2 candidates I see are either giving developers a piece of used game sales, or price increases for the games that are sold new, and the muscling out of innovative, risky titles entirely, in favor of safer, more generic, guaranteed success titles. You can hardly blame a player for acting rationally in terms of purchases, but it is worthwhile to point out that they are acting rationally in a broken game.

These guys need a reality check. It's not "problematic" when your dealing with an industry that makes billions of dollars to begin with. It's only a problem because some bean counter tells them that if all those guys who bought used games bought the game new, then they would be making more money on top of the giant piles they are already sitting on. It's not a matter of used game sales COSTING the game industry anything.

What's more I think there is some detachment from reality here, one of the reasons why these guys can charge insane prices for games is because people realize they can trade them in and get some of that money back. That $60.00 price tag is a lot easier to stomach if you can get say $25 back if you trade the game in within a couple of weeks.

The games industry in it's mouth-frothing, rabid greed, seems to fail to realize that by making trade ins more difficult they are also discouraging customers from buying those products due to the simple fact that they won't be able to rely on recouping part of the price.

Now, if the game industry was not making billions of dollars in profit overall, I'd agree that maybe things like this were an issue, but right now it's not a matter of the industry losing money or anything like that, it's a matter of them eyeballing more profits, and there is a SUBSTANTIAL differance, and nobody should let themselves be convinced otherwise.

Right now, I think that the game industry needs to just chill out and embrace slow growth, instead of constantly looking towards even bigger potential piles of money that can come by gouging consumers, or taking away things that we already have.

What's more, I find it deliciously ironic that at the same time the games industry is talking about stopping used game sales, they are also pushing to raise prices (and despite people in the industry saying games are underpriced, that is hardly the case. I think that if they keep it up they are going to take all the joy out of gaming, and make the hobby unapproachable for the average person. If they say get the price of games up to $100.00 and cut down on used game sales, I'll be blunt in saying that I doubt many people could afford that, or at least they would be buying less games which would mean less sales overall for the entire industry. If somehow that didn't effectively kill the consumer base, you'd still be seeing them QQing about how they aren't making enough money, because no amount of money is enough for big business.

See, a big part of the problem is that the guys involved in game development have decided that they should be worth Hollywood dollars. Not the price of movie stars, but of the general workers. They have also convinced themselves that their skills are vauable to other industries and that "well I could make more money elsewhere" when that is hardly the case. Computer guys with degrees are glutting the market, that's one of the big sectors of people being hit by all these layoffs since everyone got into that "growth industry" in my generation and too many people combined with competition means a lot of them being put out of jobs.

Typically games are funded by developers setting the price for what it will cost for them to make a game, basically deciding what to pay themselves. Producers wind up paying that money as an investment, hoping they will get more money back. Developers frequently lie about their role in the process, and act like they have an actual financial stake in the games, or see a share of this profit, they rarely if ever do. The exception is usually when they borrow money and become their own producer, paying themselves whatever they want to live off of, and then hoping that they can pay off the loan with the product, and anything beyond that being profit.

The issue is generally that the developers become increasingly greedier as games make more money, they set a higher price tag for the producers, which of course leads to a lot of producer/publisher behaviors we don't approve of to recoup those costs. The success of a product of course causing developers to raise their price again, publishers to gouge more, and then if profit comes in the cycle starts again.

I've read articles about the process (albiet not in this exact way) over the years, Game Informer even did a bit on it once.

The point I'm getting at is that if you were to say cut out the used games, and/or raise prices of the games, there would never be ENOUGH money being made. With the higher prices and more profit would come higher fees being demanded by developers in proportion, which means that even if more money goes into the industry the publishers would still be wanting to raise prices. It's a vicious cycle (and I'm hoping I'm articulating it properly).

In general the best thing for the game industry right now is not for the game industry to find more ways to gouge customers to sustain the ravenous beast it has become, it's for the industry to cut what it spends. Basically the issue is at th ebottom with those game developers who we as customers tend to side with because they actually make the games. Those guys need to tighten their belts. All those "little" things like that huge Valve snack bar "The Escapist" did an article on once, that's the kind of garbage we're paying for... among other issues like the people just taking home too much money for what they do. I'm sure they will deny it, like anyone being threatened with a cut would, but it happens to be true. Nobody typically thinks their lifestyle is elaborate or excessive, and nobody wants to lose their house and move back down into a smaller or or an apartment, get a junkier car, or whatever else. When it comes to a line coder or whatever, their degrees don't mean much today where everyone has one, I think it's time to hold up the "welcome to the lower middle class" signboards. With lower development costs will come more profits, I won't say lower prices for us, because well... publishers and people like that usually don't move backwards when they can.

Now, some people might be screaming "unfair", but let me explain something. Right now I am disabled, my parting from the industry I worked in for 10 years was not pleasant, but I won't go into details. Suffice it to say it had nothing to do with job performance, rulings by the state that I was fired without cause (for unemployment and such), and me hiring lawyers only to have them pull the "Indian Reservation" card, and put me in a position where I couldn't afford to pursue the issue since it can take a decade or more to get the Federal Goverment to force them to face you in an actual US court. Of course I benefitted from that same tribal status when I worked there to some extent just by being an employee (I'm not a Native American) but I won't get into that, shoe on the other foot and all that.

My job? It was casino security. Two of the three largest casinos in the world (and by this I don't just mean Indian casinos) are down here in Connecticut, and I worked for two of them. It's a point of pride that I made it longer than most people (10 years between them) and was able to control pretty much every situation I was in without any kind of violence or nastiness by dealing with things correctly. HOWEVER it's important to note that not only did I go to college (Criminal Justice), but I took a risk of potentially getting shot, beaten down, stabbed, hit by a car in the parking lot, or dozens of other unpleasant fates every single time I came to work. I won't go into the specific details of various jobs I did, but the point was that these possibilities existed by the nature of the job. Comparitively speaking some guy who has a degree in computers (any sort) and gets to go work in a nice, safe, work enviroment, does not deserve to be making the kinds of money these development budgets allow for. It's just not worth that. In general the industry doesn't want to release these budget numbers, but the bottom line is that these guys aren't living "hand to mouth" like they claim. Your looking at hollywood budgets, spread between a generally equal number of employees,to create those salaries, without the same avenues of recouping the costs leading to the insane prices, and so on as explained. Out of say a hundred million dollar budget, the cost of office space and computer is minimal the rest of that all goes towards employees. I'll also say that it's not just about the take home pay, but also about other benefits. To put things into perspective when I worked at the casinos, we DID have a free cafeteria but largely because the casinos already ran resteraunts and benefitted from employees not bringing their own food to work (complicated), on the other hand when I look
at things like Valve's snack bar, I have to question that, since the cost to run that figures into their development costs and trickles back to us the consumers, especially when you consider that what little of it I saw, seemed like it was better than what was provided for the employees of world class casinos. Aside from Valve (who I pick on due to the escapist article) if you look at various "virtual office tours" you'll find that perks like that seem to not be all that uncommon, combined with what seems to be a VERY unprofessional work enviroment. I understand hamming it up for the camera, but someone working in say IS (information services) with a work area anything like some of those areas would wind up with me being called down to pull their badge and escort them from the facilities (yes, doing things like that was part of my job. Security didn't do the firing, but we did walk people out).

The point here isn't to argue specifics in a tit for tat fashion, the point is that while security is not a high end job (mostly a dog and pony show), these guys aren't going to convince me that these operations are being run efficiently, or that these budgets are nessicary for the product being produced. To get the industry in shape, requires cuts starting at the very bottom which is the basic development process, which is almost toally based on what human resources are being paid.

Or overall: cut your own bloody costs, don't come crying to me about how you have to attack the used games market to get more money out of the customers to support a monster of your own creation.

What's more while the games industry has the abillity to get to the point of Hollywood and Pro-Sports franchises combined with enough time and evolusion, it's not there yet. When we have guys like Bobby Kotick who pretty much manages a video game company, flying around on a private jet (where he apparently has gotten involved in sex scandals with his employees) that's part of the problem. The reason why they want to gouge more money out of us, is so the industry can support things like that, with people in the games industry pretending they are much bigger deals, representing a much bigger industry, than they actually are. The cost of one snack bar, or one dude with a private jet individually don't mean much, but when you take the industry as a whole and look at all that stuff, it adds up, and increasingly lavish demands are the actual reason why these issues exist, with people looking for any avenue to make more money to support and expand this ridiculous infrastructure. Now maybe in a few decades of evolution the industry will get to a point where through sheer penetration it can support things like this (much like what are now bigger media industries like Sports, Hollywood, or Music) but we aren't there yet, and trying to pretend we are is also a big
part of the problem.

I can see all games will be digitally downloaded as a response to shut out second-hand retailers. Might not happen this year or next, but I'm sure it will happen in 5 years max.

Other developers like Turbine, are already experimenting with having their expansions digital download only. Smartest thing they ever did, since they are keeping all the profits. But most will go through 3rd party online distributors like Steam. Either way...they wont be losing profits to 2nd hand sales.

Yesterday I went to Blockbuster and brought Fable 2 for £5 preowned. On the new shelf it was £25. Why would I want to pay £20 more for a new game? I still maintain that if game companies lowered their price as time went on, just above mirroring pre-owned they'd still make more money. Say the new copy was £10. I would have brought that instead to have a copy that I know will 100% work.

Same with Fable 3. Preowned : £25. New : £45. Why would someone pay £20 more, when it's simply better for them to buy it preowned and then if they finish it they can trade it back in and get their money back.

Overall: Lower your prices in accordance with Preowned prices. I don't believe it's that people dont want to buy new, its simply the price.

Used cars are ruining the automobile industry.

JasonBurnout16:
Overall: Lower your prices in accordance with Preowned prices. I don't believe it's that people dont want to buy new, its simply the price.

But then the shops will just reduce the cost of the pre-owned so the company end up losing money both from Used Game sales and a reduced new price.

Personally, I agree with the Developers. To those that bring up the things like used cars and used books, its rare to find a shop that a) sells both new and used and b) sells them at a large reduction compared to new (at least 30% less).

That makes no sense whatsoever. When I buy used games, people are getting paid. If I were to pirate it, I'd be Fucking people over. But they'd rather I pirate it?

Sounds like somebody's just pissed that someone else is making money from their stuff.

What a stupid thing to say. They're all a useless damn bunch of primadonnas. I am so done with consoles.

Course its a giant problem. People I know who pirate have the money, and just don't think games are worth spending on.

People who have money but like saving money will buy used. Hell, I buy used.

Does it go to the developer? Nope. Do I feel ok about this because i've at least brought it? Yes.

It caters to the honest but poor demographic

I can see his point from a business perspective. Used games' sales are certainly more easily quantifiable as lost profit.

Also, because reselling and buying used games is a perfectly legal and valid practice. Whereas the moral and legal ambiguity of piracy causes most to avoid it.

Ultimately, a bit of transparency and treating paying customers with generosity and respect will encourage many people, who may otherwise, not to pirate your game. On the other hand, no one will ever give a second thought to picking up a second hand xbox title, whatever the circumstances. The physical disc method of distribution is simply inherently flawed in this respect. If devs and publishers want to profit from every sale of a game then digital distribution or online/cloud gaming are the only ways they will ever achieve that level of control over their product.

Yes well lets look at it like this. Every Pirated copy isn't a lost sale. Some pirate to try before they buy. Some pirate after they buy to get around unweildy DRM. Sure some people are just plain arseholes who pirate it because they can and never buy it. Lets face it Piracy is so big on the PC for one big reason. It's extremely easy to do all you need is a search engine and a torrent client and it's widespread because a large percentage of PC's are connected to the internet and pretty much everyone knows how to use a search engine and download stuff.

A used sale on the otherhand is a lost sale from the dev/publisher point of view. Because if you buy used over new the publisher dev sees the exact same revenue as if you pirated the game and never paid for it and once you have a used copy your not very likely to turn around and buy a new copy.

The used car market is a bad example because the car manufacturers actually lose money from every new car you buy. Where they make their money back is licencing out the spare part manufacturing and the sale of genuine parts you quite often need to buy to keep the warrenty intact.

The second hand book market is different again in that it doesn't have the same turn around from new to used. It takes a while for a newly published book to hit the second hand market because it usually takes a while for the first reader to read it through the first time.

That may actually be the best solution to the used game market make a game that has a singleplayer campaign that lasts longer than a day and make it good and maybe just maybe there won't be a secondhand market for your game they day after it releases.

I like how they focus on the PC piracy and ignore gamesharing on consoles. They're just trying to justify their money grubbing tactics by blaming used game sales. If they honestly thought this was a problem then maybe they should stop sending their customers to the number one used game dealer (gamestop) by offering exclusive pre-order items through them.

Im glad the video game industry feels its somehow special and should be immune to a secondhand market that every other maker and seller of goods since goods first started being made and sold has had to deal with. Seriously, what in the blue hell makes the video game industry so damned special?

We get it, they would like us to buy new games. Great! I'm sure General Motors would like everyone to drive new cars but you don't see them crying like spoiled children at every opportunity about the secondhand market.

If video game makers are so put out by used sales that is their problem, I don't need nor do I care to hear about it. Either adapt, accept it, or have the decency to quietly fade into oblivion. When I hear video game execs crying about used games it just makes me wish the next gaming industry crash would hurry the hell up.

risenbone:
That may actually be the best solution to the used game market make a game that has a singleplayer campaign that lasts longer than a day and make it good and maybe just maybe there won't be a secondhand market for your game they day after it releases.

This quote is spot on. I personally have no use for online play. Gamestop has a seven day (yep SEVEN DAY) no questions asked return policy on used games. I play pretty much all my games for FREE. Sure Gamestop holds onto my money while I have the game but usually I have the game back by the end of the weekend.

Reason being is focus is being taken away from quality single player content. For someone who couldn't be paid to give a fuck about DLC or online multiplayer I have no reason to keep a game more than a few days. There are exceptions with games like Red Dead Redemption and my three year old copy of Madden but as a whole single player content is getting thinner and thinner.

Until single player content begins getting beefed up I will continue to go buy the games secondhand. I will continue to beat them inside of a week. Then I will continue to go get my money back essentially enjoying the game for FREE and then pay my electric bill or cell phone bill or whatever.

wait.. you mean crappy games are typically more often to be found more abundant in the used games sections then good games which people hang on too?

May I subscribe to your news letter Lou?

rembrandtqeinstein:
Used games are worse in every way. A pirate isn't in a store with money in his pocket, looking to spend it on a game.

The typical setup in gamestop is a customer brings a new game to the counter then the pimply faced clerk says "you can get a pre-owned copy for for $5 less!" and if you say you still want a new one the scrotbag says mockingly "don't you like saving money?" The first time one of the register monkeys did that was the last time I set foot in a gamestop.

Their whole business model is leeching money off developers/publishers at the point of sale.

When someone pirates a game, they don't take the money were could have potentially spent on that game and burn it, they don't bury it in the backyard. A downloaded copy doesn't magically make money appear.

But a used sale DOES directly transfer money from the publisher to the retailer.

Ive been to plenty of gamestops and have never been treated unfairly or rudely at all. What their doing is perfectly legal, and the thing about used games is that they need to be bought new first. I don't want to buy a new game unless Im sure of its quality because 60 dollars is a LOT of money. if i can pick it up for 40 instead I will do that unless its a game ive been wanting really badly. Yes they push for used sales but that is how their company survives and you can buy it new whenever you want. It is perfectly legal to buy a used game and it helps out businesses, whereas what does piracy do? It Hurts the businesses because NOONE gets paid, and that person will likely pirate it to others compounding the problem.

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