Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"

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Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"


According to one market analyst, Star Wars' "far far away" galaxy is just Azeroth with a fresh coat of paint.

Cowen and Company analyst Doug Creutz seems rather disappointed by BioWare's Star Wars MMO, The Old Republic. He's says that it's "highly derivative" of Blizzard's massively successful World of Warcraft, and not the "major step forward" that BioWare and EA had promised.

Creutz said that he was "largely unimpressed" with what he had seen of the game and that The Old Republic was essentially a copy of WoW with some Star Wars textures slapped on the top. Not particularly good ones either apparently, at least not from Creutz's point of view, as he said that the visual were "competent but hardly breathtaking." He was similarly unimpressed with the game's conversation system, saying that it had been bolted on to the game - and implying that it didn't really make that much of a difference - and that it was the same "nice/nasty" mechanic that BioWare has done countless times before.

Creutz may have a point; when our own Steve Butts got to see TOR at E3, he noted that some of the mechanics weren't exactly new. He also pointed out, however, that a lot of what BioWare had promised about the game couldn't really be shown off in a E3 demo, and could really only be experienced "in the wild," so to speak. Whether Creutz's impression of the game will improve when the game eventually enters beta testing remains to be seen, but EA - and its stock prices - are undoubtedly hoping that the answer is "yes."

Source: MCV


You know, I never got that impression.

Still, it begs the question of whether or not this was worth posting when thousands of people have made the same observation.

From what I learned, It's not realy no. Either the guy is talking out of his ass or what I learned about the game so far is complete stupidity.

Not really surprising. The videos does indeed show off combat and mission structure that looks like WoW, but at least it does do something differently; there's a certain degree of choice. How much this is going to affect your game and the world remains to be seen, but at least that's something.

I'm also hoping that some of the promised and unshown features will be good, because if they aren't TOR will be in no position to challenge WoW in any way. Sure, it will get some subscriber, hell, I'll give it a try to see what it's all about, but how many of them remains after the inital month or so is entirely up to Bioware creating interesting mechanics, that will keep people around.

I'm still looking forward to it, even if it might not be groundbreaking. Hunting down those Jedi scum(hopefully) as a bounty hunter, once again, is something I look forward to and have since SOE completely fucked up SWG.

every MMO is like WoW in some ways

Eh, everything I've heard from my buddies beta testing it have been about the same. Largely unimpressive, pretty similar to WoW in how it plays, and the story driven nature is kinda... well, i guess bolted on is a good way of putting it. All in all, I can't say I'm exactly looking forward to it. Lets hope they can change my mind?

why does Tor get no love from anyone the game looks promissing even if the mechanics are similar to WoW the feel is completely different. but whatever it's easier to critisize than to praise and with a game of this profile it's bound to get more initial hate. we'll see what it turns out to be i'm causiously optimistic about this game and i hope it's the first mmo i can stick with for longer than 2 months.

Disappointing :( Wish they'd gone with KOTOR 3 (stock answer I know but I really do!)

Roll on Guild Wars 2 then! That actually looks like it could be different (where appropriate)

Of course its going to be similar to WoW, WoW have the MMO formula that works. It seems if another MMO comes along and tries to do stuff different, half the people complain its unfamiliar, if its similar, the other half will say its a clone. There's just no pleasing everyone

He also said of Tatooine (probably the most iconic planet in Star Wars): "I don't get why they went with this desert area to show off the game."

Clearly he was very enthused for the whole thing from the get-go and has a great amount of knowledge around the whole thing.

Anyway, others I've seen who've played it have been largely positive.

*sighs* and this is what we get instead of KotOR 3? Bioware, I am disappoint.

WoW is wildly successful. Since when is pulling aspects of WoW into a game a bad thing? It shows that they're making the same conclusions as Blizzard did, instead of trying to be different for the sake of being different from WoW.

Lesson learned, analysts can be trolls too.

That's sort of like saying "an MMO is like an MMO".

Until Guild Wars 2 that is... then things will be better.

Well derr. All popular MMOs are based off DIKUmud.

Disappointing :( Wish they'd gone with KOTOR 3 (stock answer I know but I really do!)

If we keep chanting it, it might just happen. I've tried multiple MMO's including WoW and found them all basically the same kind of game: pointless grinding and, fetch-quests with no actual plot or, end point. I prefer single player RPGs. I'd be lying though if I said I won't be trying Old Republic. I probably won't commit to it though, not when I haven't finished the main narrative plots within the megalith that is Morrowind.

I really don't care about this market analysts. They may be experts about stock market, but with my past experiences their comments about games are totally worthless.

I find his lack of faith, disturbing

every MMO is like WoW in some ways

Exactly - if the Combat is like WoW - Who the fuck cares? ITS AN MMO PEOPLE! 99% OF MMO'S HAVE THE SAME COMBAT SYSTEM!

Anyways - another Critic bashing on a game, as far as I am concerned they are just like Movie Critics - Aka they are bullshit.

Ironically... That review sounds pretty much the same as any other review made for any other MMO released since WoW became a household world. "It's just like WoW but different". Yes, games within the same genre have similarities. Last time I checked though, WoW does have space ship battles, a mobile home/base that is your own space ship, fully voice acted, branching storylines within adventures and all the other things that will make SWTOR different from other MMOs. It's still going to have some nods to the MMO genre though. Quests, kill ten womp rats, raids, all that other stuff that makes up an MMO.

I'm not surprised he said this at all. If anyone was expecting anything truly different, they were expecting far too much. But, doesn't mean it won't be a good game. It will use the same mission style, the same combat system, all of that stuff, because this is the only way an MMORPG is ever to be successful apparently. I'm definitely waiting for reviews on this one.

If this is just now coming as a surprise, then you haven't been paying attention. Welcome to two years ago Mr. Analyst, thanks for showing up. Still planning on giving it a 30-day trial.

Whose Doug Creutz and why should I care what he thinks of an MMO that he played/saw in a non-mmo enviroment?

It's nice of him to throw his hat into the ring months and months after everyone else though.

Can it just be accepted by now to these analyst that there are certain elements that will go into most mmos, such as there are certain elements that go into fps games?

It's not those elements that help make or break a game. It's the context of them and Star Wars probably has the most polished/extensive history to ever be made into an mmo.

Great. I loved WoW.

World of Warcraft is honestly becomming like Simsons at this point. Anything original the others did, they ripped it off and killed the competition. And is now seen as the original. Theres almost nothing WoW has not done 'cept changing into first person and shooting stuff on left/right click. But thats covered by Activisions CoD'department.

I have no idea who this guy is, and he's a "market analyst", I don't give a rats ass about what analysts say.

I'm sorry but did someone actually say:

"Major step forward" then put "EA" after it?

I don't know about everybody else, but the conversations make a HUGE difference for me. I've played World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and the Lord of the Rings Online, and I'm sick and tired of quests amounting to a pop-up text window full of an information dump that somehow loosely rationalizes why you need to kill X amount of creature Y for NPC Z. The Old Republic still has some of these quests, but it's a LOT more engaging when you can insult the quest giver NPC for his stupidity, or even sabotage his request. Other quests don't even involve killing, but are all dialoge and story driven, where everything pivots upon your decisions. The key point here is CHOICE people, it's what TOR is adding to the paradigm, and it's a huge step in the right direction. I've had NPC's applaud my decisions, or derided them and question my judgement, or even try to kill me over my past actions. I've killed off some story characters, and spared others, and you have to live with the consequences. Imagine Mass Effect or Knight of the Old Republic, where you can never just save and reload to get things just right. You have to go with your gut and stick to your guns, and there is no going back short of making a new character and starting over. That may not seem like much of a difference over World of Warcraft, but it's HUGE factor in actually making me CARE about the world and my role in it.

This is like calling Bad Company 2 and MW2 DooM clones, get over it.

Using his logic that being derivative means "clone" then of course SWTOR is a WoW Clone, just as WoW is an EQ clone, which in turn is a UO clone... Hell using that logic one could call the latest CoD FPS a Doom Clone.

Derivative just means it uses the common elements that every MMO since the time of MUDs has used. It's the details that make or break a game. WoW's details were what made it a success, the polish that blizzard is so proud of is all detail work, when in reality it isn't much different then any of the games that came before it, the major systems haven't changed since UO; chat, loot, fight, level, craft, quest, etc. It's how those systems are used that gives a game it's own feel.

Time will tell if SWTOR's details make it a success.

I'm sorry but did someone actually say:

"Major step forward" then put "EA" after it?


Sorry, but its true. Besides, Star Wars has been sucking for a long time now.

I'll take this with a truckload of salt, seeing as any so called "Analyst" is either retarded, paid to state the bleeding obvious, or both. Besides, it's an MMO. How different from WoW did this moron expect it to be?

Oh, here's something. You know that WoW thing? Turns out it's just an Everquest clone. Oh wait, that in turn was just a UO clone. So I guess WoW is the clone of a clone, which makes ToR the clone of a cloned clone. Shocking, I know...

EDIT: Goddamn ninjas. Can we get some pirates in here to take care of them?

Jesus Phish:
It's not those elements that help make or break a game. It's the context of them and Star Wars probably has the most polished/extensive history to ever be made into an mmo.


Most critics who claim "____ MMO is just like WoW" are generally the sorts that don't play past the tutorials of any MMO. You know... the point where MMOs haven't got the level of complexity and depth established yet to define it within the genre.

They generally look at superficial details like 'This game has quests just like in WoW!' without realising that the WoW way of handling quests is the best anyone's come up with so far. Which is why they took it from other games that have quests and added the ! so it's not a pain in the ass to find them.

Or 'Look, you hit abilities and they do things! it's just like WoW!' and every other rpg ever....

People who do not have a grounding in the genre should not be doing reviews or analysis in the games of the genre. They simply aren't qualified to offer critique of any importance, in the same manner that someone who doesn't like or play FPSs probably shouldn't be sent to do analysis on the latest Call of Duty.

I think WoW does it better then TOR, but that's what he says.

I also think this games will suck on all ends of the spectrum and I think he says that too!

The only 'major step forward', that Bioware is making with this game is one of the edge of a cliff.

It amuses me to no end how much this is following in Warhammer Online's footsteps. Heralded as the next big MMO and the one that will finally be able to go head to head with Blizzard and Wow. Sadly, as time goes on more and more people are finding out that all the hype about the game was just that, hype. I will just say what I said in the E3 article about Old Republic, the more I see of it the less enthused I am about it. I hope it will enjoy fighting with the rest of the pack of failed MMOs over Blizzard's scraps.

My first problem with it is that it looks less like something out of the Star Wars universe and more like a futuristic circus. When I think Star Wars I think of the gritty world of the original three movies not the cartoonish bullshit that we got from the prequels. It seems they are taking more from the prequels than the original movies sadly.

Secondly, it DOES look like it's going to end up being nothing more than WoW with a Star Wars skin. Combat looks like your run of the mill MMO combat and the more I see the more this is looking to be case. Not that this would be a bad thing per say but EA and Bioware have been screaming to anyone who will listen how much different and innovative this game is going to be. Sadly, when this turns out to be just another WoW clone EA and Bioware are going to look like massive jackasses.

Thirdly, I just don't think that your typical Bioware gameplay will translate well to an MMO formula. I would wager that it will be there sure, but it will feel forced and out of place.

Finally and most importantly this isn't the same Bioware that brought us KOTOR and Baldur's Gate. This is the Bioware that was eaten up and regurgitated out by EA and decided that recycling the same dungeon throughout the entire game in Dragon Age 2 was a fine thing to do. This is the same Bioware that has chosen to "streamline" gameplay lately to cater to the lowest common denominator rather than hold them to the same standard as the games that came before them. All said I wouldn't trust this Bioware to check my email without EA butting in and screwing things up.

Oh geez an MMO has taken a lot of elements from WoW? NO SHIT!?! Next you're going to tell me that the Berlin wall fell down...look, to make an mmo, you have to copy some things from WoW for 2 reasons. 1) the majority of the MMO market has invested into WoW and are probably used to it. You change it too much, it's going to be so foreign that people won't play it. Reason 2) WoW has copied every other MMO to become the king of MMO's. So not only is every MMO like WoW, WoW is like every MMO, it's just the way the world works.

TBH this sounds more like the guys experience on MMO's was purely based on WoW and when they came to something of a same genre that was saying "we're going to revolutionise the field" they were surprised, it played like an MMO...because that's what it is. The equivalent would be me playing Need for Speed and then Burnout and saying "Oh yeah, they're pretty much the same", THEY'RE THE SAME GENRE!!! OF COURSE THEY'LL BE THE SAME!!!

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