60 FPS is Modern Warfare 3's "Competitive Edge"

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I guess when you're releasing CoD4 yet again your really run out of sales pitches.
"Ya others have good looking games with more features but our old engine runs smooth"

Zhukov:
Can the untrained human eye even tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?

Maybe not see, but feel, certainly. Even so, I still think they're right in it being a worthwhile trade off. And the host advantage in CoD seems to be so appalling that the 60 fps is negated half the time anyway.

And yeah, if you're competitive edge is solely your frame rate (an offshoot of their donkeys-years-old engine most likely) then you've got issues.

Well... how 'bout that... *wanders off*

Seriously, does framerate even make that much difference? Unless the framerate is chugging to game-disrupting levels I don't think its an understatement to say that I don't give a fuck if your game runs 60fps or only 30-ish!

My untrained eye can't tell the difference, to be perfectly honest. And even if it could differentiate between the two framerates, I doubt I would be able to bring myself to care about said difference in any way.

Of course this is just me. Some people do notice and obsess about these things. I have a brother who regularly complains about the irritating framerate of console games while to me they appear to be running perfectly smoothly.

Of course he is also an elitist smug PC gaming shit-for-brains with a superiority complex, so he might just be complaining about stuff he knows I won't notice just to try and get to me or to make himself feel better over spending several thousand pounds on a gaming rig just so he can play a combination of games also available on console, and the Witcher 2.

Sorry, got off-topic there. Point is: framerate specifics barely matter, and these two companies are childish pricks.

I think everyone has asked this but I was aware most people can only see 30FPS maybe slightly higher, so whats the point of 60FPS? not like things are going to be much difference.

Just going to be CoD:BO 2 as far as Ive seen.

Also the location, 2 words: Crysis 2

Azaraxzealot:

Easton Dark:
A constant 30-50fps is good enough for me Sledgehammer, and I bet most of your fans really don't care about it that much.

i think they're stupid enough to use it in an argument even though most of them don't know what the hell they're talking about.

it's the bit wars all over again.

otherwise known as "MINE'S BIGGER!"

Oh god. I have Battlefield and CoD fanboy friends. The conversations... *dread*

Braedan:

teh_Canape:
didn't Timesplitters 3 already did this, like YEARS ago? on the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox?

The old systems were not able to do 1080p though, so they were running on half the resolution.

oh yeah, forgot about resolution

anyways, what's the difference? the older games ran pretty smoothly already

Wait wait wait, does anyone give a shit about 60 fps?
And this is coming from someone who spent an entire day making a 30 fps stop motion, so if I know a thing about fps's its that 60 wont make any diffrence.

from the makers of "my dad can beat up your dad" comes an epic tale of two developers who made games in similar scenarios with multiplayer focus but rather different philosophies for the whole thing(and thus different requirement for the engine) in "a tale of two studios that couldn't keep their dicks in their pants"
in supporting roles: publisher.
As extras: the gaming press

How I will lol if EA's rebuttal in this ongoing mud-slinging match is, "Yeah, well, I ran at 60fps in your mum last night!"

Zhukov:
Can the untrained human eye even tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?

Yes. Then again, it matters little when your ping is four digits long.

Braedan:

scnj:
So, their only argument is that their FPS has more FPS? It's like having an RPG with many RPGs.

I think you misunderstand the acronyms...

First Person Shooter/Frames Per Second, Role Playing Game/Rocket Propelled Grenades.

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, just silly wordplay. Or acronym play.

Wow, 60 whole frames a second? That is the same as Mario Kart Wii! What a great and notable selling point.

I find their responses funny.

EA: We have awesome gameplay mechanics that will change the FPS landscape forever!

Activision: We have an awesome fanbase that would never betray us!

EA: We have tanks, helicopters, and planes that YOU control!

Activision: We think that extra stuff deminishes game play.

EA: We feature fully destructible environments that realistically explode when you shoot things at it!

Activision: We want to keep a tight, controlled experience where we know what the player will get in any given situation on any map.

Activision: We have a VERY pretty picture and you should buy our game cause it look pretty!

EA: Pictures are nice, but we like to make games that people can do tons of shit in!

I just feel like Activision's arguments are so weak...

hahhahaha.

From my own experience, 30 fps is sufficient for competitive play, and 60-65 fps is the rough limit of human reflex and manual precision(essentially, you can't react and control things any better beyond this point). At roughly 85 fps, you are at the limit of the human visual system; any fps higher than this is indistinguishable.

Tweaking game engines up to and even beyond these thresholds is a waste of effort. Once the engine is capable of sustaining 30-50 fps at medium to highest graphical detail settings on common hardware, any additional effort is best put toward content and gameplay.

At least, this is my opinion.

Oh wow, 60 FPS. on 720p. Impressive.

Well, it would be impressive if I wasn't already running Counter Strike Source at 150 FPS at 1080p for... 5 years now? I think it's been 5 years.

And besides, frames don't matter that much(so long as the game itself is playable), ping matters a hell of a lot more. And Call of Duty ain't exactly the best in that regard.

teh_Canape:

Braedan:

teh_Canape:
didn't Timesplitters 3 already did this, like YEARS ago? on the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox?

The old systems were not able to do 1080p though, so they were running on half the resolution.

oh yeah, forgot about resolution

anyways, what's the difference? the older games ran pretty smoothly already

The increase from 30 to 60 is quite noticable, but it doesn't make the game better, only smoother. If we were going from 15 to 30 there would be a HUGE difference.
Don't get me wrong, I love my fps's, but I'm not going to buy a game based on that number. Higher fps means lower graphical quality (or smaller areas and less things on screen, which is what it seems we have here.).

Corohan:
Implying that Battlefield 3 can't run 60 fps on the PC.

Activision has proven, like Ubisoft, that it doesnt really give a shit about making good PC versions. So I doubt they consider this a factor in their argument.

Braedan:
The increase from 30 to 60 is quite noticable, but it doesn't make the game better, only smoother. If we were going from 15 to 30 there would be a HUGE difference.
Don't get me wrong, I love my fps's, but I'm not going to buy a game based on that number. Higher fps means lower graphical quality (or smaller areas and less things on screen, which is what it seems we have here.).

to be fair, the only "experience" I've had with FPS rate was mostly with Ninja Blade on my PC, having it locked at 30 FPS, but then removing the lock and running around 50 fps

but that's all I know, I mean, I haven't actually compared games with "fixed" fps rate

I agree that money's nice as much as the next person, but is it really worth chasing down the idiots who will turn down an online shooter that runs at less that 60FPS on a console? Really? That's the kind of customer that Infinnity Ward wants?

scnj:

Braedan:

scnj:
So, their only argument is that their FPS has more FPS? It's like having an RPG with many RPGs.

I think you misunderstand the acronyms...

First Person Shooter/Frames Per Second, Role Playing Game/Rocket Propelled Grenades.

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, just silly wordplay. Or acronym play.

that's it?

and here I was, trying to find the Xzibit joke hidden within

So "bullshit" is MW3's competitive edge? Well, that's what i expected from Kotick.

Movies are 24FPS, and that doesn't make them bad.
Games need about 30FPS to run brilliantly - difference between 30 FPS and more than 30FPS is practically unnoticeable.

In fighting games, 60 FPS is expected. Ironically in FPS games, it's consider above the standard...
Weird

Forget about the FPS, why did he focus so much on the fact that they're giving the engine a name?

this is honestly a little pathetic. "ooh, we can run at 60fps! BF3 can't! therefore we win!" Most people just don't care. It'd be different if this was a tournament-level fighting game where knowing exactly which frame the enemy is vulnerable is almost necessary, but it isn't. It's an FPS and it won't make a difference.

Grow up Activision.

it does look better. I couldn't explain what is different, but 60 does genuinely look better thn 30.

call of duty 4 ran at 30 and that was the best call of duty by far and if anything it increases lag (in multiplayer) because player location in game has to updated at least 60 times a second or it defeats the point of bragging about it
its the only honest reason i have to explain why black ops and mw2 lag much more than cod 4 halo and other fps games

Dr. wonderful:
That sopme epic bashing right there.

I wonder How EA will respond.

Probably something along the lines of "You see that annoying buiding over there where all the snipers are camping? Yeah, in our game you'd be abe to blow that up"

Im not getting another CoD game ever again due to Black Ops having a clusterfuck of bugs and issues on release with Treyarch being shitty about getting fixes out for the PC version and Activision being shitty with their customer support.

High FPS (Which is a crappy 'edge' by the way) is never going to make up for that crap and it's also a big "We don't care about you!" to PC gamers who already enjoy such framerates.

Are they seriously grasping for straws to the point of bringing frames per second into this?

News flash, anyone who thinks this matters at all: 60FPS WILL NOT HELP YOU ONLINE. Unless you and everyone you play with just happen to be within a mile of the server and on good wired connections, latency makes the FPS of an online shooter irrelevant, because lag and ping will be deciding factors, not the client-side FPS.

TimeLord:
But how many people can actually notice the difference?

I probably could, my PC is pretty old and most of my games run at 25-30 frames normally. I'm put off when I get 60fps, I'm used to jugging around spraying and praying lol.

He basically says: MW3 is a far better game because of something you cannot see or care about

bombadilillo:

Darth Sea Bass:
I thought anything more than 25 was more than the eye can discern?

While true. You CAN detect smoothness in it. Ever been in a movie and seen a panning shot that looked like it was lurching? I see it all the time and it bugs me. Maybe I am just sensitive to it but whatever. You should ideally have the framerate up higher. James Cameran wants movies to move to 48fps (over 24). Im gaming 60 is the goal and anthing above becomes overkill. But you can definatly tell a difference. Well some people can. Plus at 60 if you do get a slowdown hiccup you have that much breathing room. If 30 drops then you will see it.

Bottom line. A solid 30 is fine, good deal no problem. 60 is great. Neither have much to do with how good a game looks.

theriddlen:

Movies are 24FPS, and that doesn't make them bad.
Games need about 30FPS to run brilliantly - difference between 30 FPS and more than 30FPS is practically unnoticeable.

I can imagine its probably animated films or sections with heavy CG that you can see the stuttering. In a recorded film, the camera 'sees' everything for the length of time the shutter is open. So if the camera is panning, you get a natural motion blur in each frame. Hence why it looks smooth even at 24fps.

However with games and animation/CG you render a single image for every frame so you have to either use artificial motion blur or have higher fps to get the same smoothness. That's the original Crysis running a 30fps looks totally fine, it had incredible motion blur for that time.

So yeah, running a 60fps is great and all, but there are ways around it. I'm hoping my GTX570 will be able to give me 60fps on BF3 anyway :).

I've never heard of an fps cap for the eye. It sounds a little strange that part of the human body acts so digitally. Do you have a source?

Psycho-Toaster:
Forget about the FPS, why did he focus so much on the fact that they're giving the engine a name?

because Frostbite probably sounds better than whatever their engine is called and he wants to beat EA at "all" fronts

Darth Sea Bass:
I thought anything more than 25 was more than the eye can discern?

This computer monitor at this college I'm working at is capable of running at 120Hz. When I switched from 60Hz to 120Hz, I immediately saw the difference. It's quite easy to notice how smooth animations get when you bump up the hertz/fps

Take a look at this:
http://www.shinedraw.com/mathematics/flash-vs-silverlight-fps-meter-stress-test/

Add a lot of images on both of the windows, you should be able to tell the difference on which looks smoother.

teh_Canape:

scnj:

Braedan:

I think you misunderstand the acronyms...

First Person Shooter/Frames Per Second, Role Playing Game/Rocket Propelled Grenades.

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, just silly wordplay. Or acronym play.

that's it?

and here I was, trying to find the Xzibit joke hidden within

You gave me the inspiration to make this:
image
Please don't judge my Photoshop abilities off of this picture D:

You know what's better than 60fps? Having both teams using tactics/teamwork and playing the objective. Or you could just play TF2 and have both :)

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